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Besides everything else that's been mentioned, my biggest problem with this show is that everyone is a piece of poo poo in some way or another, and maybe that's the point, and maybe that's more realistic, but (and this is a big but) when it comes to creative writing and television, you really have to have at least one person you root for somewhat. I don't care about anyone in this show succeeding. They all seem irredeemable the way they're characterized. And because of that, whatever cat and mouse games are being played tend to lose most all of their dramatic tension. About the one character that seems anywhere close to someone you can get behind is Toby Leonard Moore as Bryan Connerty. He worked his way to where he is and still seems to want to do good things without compromising. Except, now him and Chuck are totally cool even though Chuck did a bunch of shady poo poo. Great. Well there goes that.
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Apr 23, 2017 04:49
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Golden Bee posted:Billions feels like a show about smart people that's written by dumb people. Has there been anything in the season as horrible as the guy who uses his bare hands to pick up dog poo poo instead of like, his sleeve? That's when I stopped watching. That's a pretty dumb complaint and method. I can wash my hands pretty quickly, I can't necessarily change a shirt easily that's going to smell like dog poo poo or have dirty cuffs all day.
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Apr 23, 2017 05:08
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Taylor is going to get hosed over hard I think  But they made a conscious choice to lean into that lifestyle so...sucks for them.
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Apr 24, 2017 05:09
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I like that their character can't just be trans but also has to be autistic, which of course makes them the most morally centered person at the company.
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Apr 24, 2017 05:35
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I don't think the show is quite as bad as people in the thread make it out to be, but I do agree that the actors are completely elevating the material. Without Giamatti, Lewis and Siff this would be a real bad show, and the supporting cast also carries their weight when they have to. There's no way the show doesn't end with both Axelrod and Rhodes having completely ruined each others lives while Siff's character rides off into the sunset having fully analyzed herself and realizing she's better off without either man in her life, and while they both lie in ruined lives of prison sentences or complete public disgrace she'll be off raising her kids and enjoying the millions she's made as a god-tier psychiatrist, but I've mostly liked the ride toward that so far. I can only hope that literally every season ends with a character we think will turn on Axe being in his pocket all along, somehow escalating from manipulating a dying employee season after season  .Taylor has been pretty cool too, it's been fun seeing Axe interact with someone who is at his IQ and not just an insane pile of testosterone and bad decisions like the other brokers are.
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Apr 24, 2017 12:00
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NowonSA posted:I don't think the show is quite as bad as people in the thread make it out to be, but I do agree that the actors are completely elevating the material. Without Giamatti, Lewis and Siff this would be a real bad show, and the supporting cast also carries their weight when they have to. This show is basically Suits but with better actors and a higher budget. Any plot is incidental as everything is really just a vehicle for Giamatti and Lewis to lecture and quip endlessly. I quite like it.
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Apr 24, 2017 14:19
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MiddleOne posted:This show is basically Suits but with better actors and a higher budget. Any plot is incidental as everything is really just a vehicle for Giamatti and Lewis to lecture and quip endlessly. I quite like it. Yeah, come to think of it Suits is a good comparison, but man the budget difference between those two shows is like night and day. Suits you get lovely roof CGI backgrounds and random meetings in fairly fancy places like skyscraper offices and good looking restaurants, Billions is just like "sure, lets have a mansion i just about every episode and also sports cars and planes and casinos and tons of extras all the time" and it's like good grief. It's cool to see and all, but it can be overwhelming sometimes.
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Apr 25, 2017 08:14
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Yeah, it's basically expensive fast food. Damian Lewis sells the poo poo out of the libertarian shitlord who thinks they're so much smarter than everyone else, I love it. Paul Giamatti owns but I don't find the Chuck Rhoades character entertaining enough to care.
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Apr 25, 2017 16:07
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The biggest issue for me is that they've completely neutralized Chuck. Season one was great because it felt like chuck posed a very real threat to Axe. But now, you see Chuck and he's completely owned by his wife, his dad, Mary Louise Parker, by Taylor via proxy. There just doesn't seem to be this aura that he can actually take Axe down.
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Apr 26, 2017 12:27
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I don't know what Mary Louise Parker is doing with that southern (?) accent, but it's nice to see her anyway. I've said it before, but this show attracts some A-level actors for recurring guest stars. And I know this show loves its movie references but, holy poo poo. Were they having some sort of contest with this last episode on how many references they could fit into one episode? Christ. NowonSA posted:god-tier psychiatrist Minor nitpick, but she's a therapist. Therapists do therapy and can't prescribe drugs. Psychiatrists are medical doctors, usually do not do therapy, and can prescribe drugs. Edit: vvv Fine, and informative, but that's a much finer distinction than between therapist and psychiatrist. Longbaugh01 fucked around with this message at 02:44 on May 1, 2017 |
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Apr 30, 2017 22:58
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Longbaugh01 posted:Minor nitpick, but she's a therapist. Therapists do therapy and can't prescribe drugs. Psychiatrists are medical doctors, usually do not do therapy, and can prescribe drugs. I think what she actually does is coaching which is some sort of modern "goal-oriented" therapy/counseling, where instead of working towards the general betterment of the person, they try to help them get better at some specific thing. It's always seemed sort of ethically iffy to me, basically rich people paying a "professional" to tell them what they want to hear.
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Apr 30, 2017 23:11
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That episode was incredible.
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May 1, 2017 05:32
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That move by Wendy was pretty cold, almost as cold as Chuck betraying his father in order to get at Axe, great episode.
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May 1, 2017 06:40
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This show is one of the best things on air right now. Lol at people calling this show bad. Tonight's episode was exceptional.
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May 1, 2017 06:53
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LionArcher posted:This show is one of the best things on air right now. Lol at people calling this show bad. Tonight's episode was exceptional. Obviously Damian Lewis & Paul Giamatti are the stars of the show, and it wouldn't be as good without them. But it's a great show overall.
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May 1, 2017 06:57
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Holy poo poo that ending  The last 5 minutes changed up everything about how I thought this season was gonna wrap up.
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May 1, 2017 07:34
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sportsgenius86 posted:The biggest issue for me is that they've completely neutralized Chuck. Season one was great because it felt like chuck posed a very real threat to Axe. Of course, because that's part of the long game. LAYERS AND LAYERS.
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May 1, 2017 07:37
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Justin Credible posted:Of course, because that's part of the long game. This season was about the fall of Ax. Next season will be his rise.
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May 1, 2017 07:54
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LionArcher posted:This show is one of the best things on air right now. Lol at people calling this show bad. Tonight's episode was exceptional. This show and the leftovers makes Sunday nights awesome.
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May 1, 2017 15:34
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Matt Zerella posted:This show and the leftovers makes Sunday nights awesome. Yes! 
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May 1, 2017 16:47
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Oasx posted:That move by Wendy was pretty cold, almost as cold as Chuck betraying his father in order to get at Axe, great episode. Isn't Wendy going to be a big problem though? Through her stake she's now directly involved in the paper trail.
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May 1, 2017 16:47
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MiddleOne posted:Isn't Wendy going to be a big problem though? Through her stake she's now directly involved in the paper trail. It may save Ax. Also, I could see him running at the end of this season, only to come back with a vengeance next season, while Wags and Taylor run the Fund.
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May 1, 2017 19:58
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MiddleOne posted:Isn't Wendy going to be a big problem though? Through her stake she's now directly involved in the paper trail. Yeah, i think she's going to be collateral/loose thread because Chuck didn't plan on her finding out about his play and shorting IceJuice along with the rest of AxeCap. So I think the question is going to be if Chuck is willing to betray his wife to destroy Axe. I was pumping my fists when Chuck called up Dake from the bullpen. How Malin Akerman keeps getting work, i will never understand.
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May 1, 2017 20:08
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red19fire posted:
I think she's ok, but my wife hates her.
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May 1, 2017 21:00
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LionArcher posted:This show is one of the best things on air right now. Lol at people calling this show bad. Tonight's episode was exceptional. I totally agree with this, also episode 11 was brutal and then there was the ending ...
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May 1, 2017 21:33
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I like how the twist recontextualized the conversation between Wendy and Chuck about the three things he's seen most clearly in his life. Great episode. Great show.
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May 2, 2017 03:54
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GobiasIndustries posted:Holy poo poo that ending That was the most obvious "twist" since the Red Wedding if you have read the books. They did a great job selling it this episode (though they foreshadowed it heavily in the convo with his martial arts instructor about exploiting an opponent going overly aggressive after your weakness), but the way he turned to to the Ice Juice books after the conversation with his female employee made it very clear to me that he would lure Axe into a trap, I mean he literally realizes just how far Axe will go to act in spite and says you can only win if you anticipate the attack - I don't see how any reasonable person could read that as "oh, Chuck is broken and now going after the money"?. As for Wendy, well, it will certainly complicate the clean kill shot Chuck has at this point, which is somehow necessary because the show is renewed for a 3rd season.
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May 2, 2017 14:18
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Yeah, it's definitely been foreshadowed since the "if that's what it takes" moment whatever number of episodes ago when his dad tells him to raid the fund. I will say that I expected the show to somehow have the stock bounce back from the crash, or to have Axe's ruse be caught out early, because drat, even if Chuck hadn't anticipated Wendy's involvement, for this plan to work out he basically had to sacrifice all his money, a large chunk of his father's money, his best friend's dream and a large chunk of his money, and basically put a whole company and it's employees in jeopardy. That's some serious pyrrhic victory poo poo. And perhaps the most frustrating thing for him will be that once Wendy's short is discovered, he won't be able to prosecute Axe himself due to conflict of interest, even if he was willing to sacrifice it. He'll have to delegate it to Connerty, which means he basically sold his soul and doesn't even get to bring Axe in.
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May 2, 2017 14:47
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I absolutely saw the Ice Juice play from Chuck coming, I mean it was telegraphed with his speech about how he'd have to know exactly where Axe was going to attack after finding out he bought all those books to screw someone he didn't like, and right after that he's like "Hey dad, I got a killer pitch for ya." I was worried he was going to have to try to get'em after the fact, but that last 5 minutes was real good showing how he's finally got Axe where he wants him, even if it's going to ultimately be someone else prosecuting him while Chuck runs for Governor. I feel like Wendy's short shouldn't be a big deal in the real world, but in the world of the show that's certainly going to be the big wrinkle. At this point I kind of just want her to pick a side and stick with it, and help whoever she chooses to get the big win and stop being caught in the middle. It is a nice bit of hubris that Chuck could have had an utterly flawless victory if he'd just told Wendy what his plan was beforehand, or even right then in his office, and trusted her not to tell Axe, but he chose to keep the mask up even though it pained him to do so. Season 3 could have a fun set up with Axe wounded but not really in jail or anything yet, and while the case against him keeps getting stronger and more clearly laid out Chuck's campaign is getting increasingly into gear and Axe just throws like, $50-100 million solely into making sure Chuck doesn't win with all kinds of crazy election screwballery. After this episode, I'm more sure than ever that Chuck and Axe's only victory in the end will be that the other man is destroyed too while their respective lives lie in tatters, though I personally like Chuck enough to want to see him properly win, even if it means that we've seen him turn completely evil by the end instead of lovably evil.
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May 3, 2017 08:00
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NowonSA posted:It is a nice bit of hubris that Chuck could have had an utterly flawless victory if he'd just told Wendy what his plan was beforehand, or even right then in his office, and trusted her not to tell Axe, but he chose to keep the mask up even though it pained him to do so. Well to be fair, it's not like he could have predicted that she would do the most petty thing imaginable and join the short just to spite him. She's already a multi-millionaire, she doesn't exactly need the money.
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May 3, 2017 08:07
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MiddleOne posted:Well to be fair, it's not like he could have predicted that she would do the most petty thing imaginable and join the short just to spite him. She's already a multi-millionaire, she doesn't exactly need the money. You could argue that she did it to balance out the family accounts, given that they made a great deal about Chuck's trust being setup for him AND THE KIDS. By the way, Chuck's dad and friend should be able to simply sue Axe for damages to actually make a killing, given that the government is going to proof that he manipulated the share price. But in the end Taylor is going to be the fall person over the Klaxon play when Axe pleads guilty to protect Wendy.
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May 3, 2017 08:36
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Yeah, the argument against Chuck is that he's too seduced by the lure of a Governorship and cares too much about JUSTICE, so he's willing to risk his kids' future for his own gain, and by doing that he's actually managing to be a shittier Dad than his own father was. I still find both Giammatti and the character both too drat likeable though so I want him to win, but then again I was pretty much on team Walt throughout Breaking Bad so I don't exactly have trouble rooting for shitheads. I don't think there's really a legal recourse to someone sabotaging your company to manipulate the stock price, even if it's proven in a court of law. Even if there is, the damage to the brand is probably irreparable. One thing worth noting is that Chuck didn't expect his dad to put literally the entire trust into the stock, though given what he knows about him he probably should have, so that's something. Just like how he should have told Wendy, he should have told his Dad to only put half the money in and insisted that he not go further. He might have done it anyway, but at least he'd have tried. I'm looking forward to Chuck and Axe sitting in that deal room again with Chuck tossing the mountain of evidence around, and Axe finally being willing to throw Wendy under the bus for shorting along with them or something else to try to get out from under it. The episode before this one was a nice window into what a control freak and overall bad dude Axe is, the side that he usually covers up by being a loveable rear end in a top hat instead of just an rear end in a top hat, and I'm looking forward to an angry Axe rant.
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May 3, 2017 11:26
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NowonSA posted:I don't think there's really a legal recourse to someone sabotaging your company to manipulate the stock price, even if it's proven in a court of law. Even if there is, the damage to the brand is probably irreparable. The damages to the brand might be irreparable, but that's not the point. Ira (Chuck's friend) and his father can pretty easily proof that Axe's action cost them monetary damages by devaluing their stocks from $30 to $3 and therefore Axe has to pay.
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May 3, 2017 11:36
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Chuck being a test case on pure economic loss confirmed season 3 storyline.
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May 3, 2017 11:46
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NowonSA posted:Yeah, the argument against Chuck is that he's too seduced by the lure of a Governorship and cares too much about JUSTICE, so he's willing to risk his kids' future for his own gain, and by doing that he's actually managing to be a shittier Dad than his own father was. Being the US Attorney for the Southern District of New York is not a low-paying civil service job. He's poised to be the next Governor. They're not going to go hungry while daddy waits on his foodstamps to roll in at the end of the month. They'll live a life of privilege, go to top tier schools and have more opportunity in life than pretty much anyone posting in this thread, as well as anyone in the entire state of New York... they'll just have to actually earn once university is over. Chuck Senior is pretty loving evil, maybe a life without his bloodmoney is for the best?
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May 4, 2017 06:29
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Yeah looking back it probably shoulda been more obvious but I think I was expecting Axe would have ended the season with an upper hand as a juxtaposition to how last season ended which probably clouded my viewing. Still a great way to reveal everything, even if you were expecting it.
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May 4, 2017 06:46
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jfood posted:Being the US Attorney for the Southern District of New York is not a low-paying civil service job. He's poised to be the next Governor. They're not going to go hungry while daddy waits on his foodstamps to roll in at the end of the month. They'll live a life of privilege, go to top tier schools and have more opportunity in life than pretty much anyone posting in this thread, as well as anyone in the entire state of New York... they'll just have to actually earn once university is over. Chuck obviously makes a good amount of money, just not enough to afford the lifestyle he wants for himself and his kids alone. That was why he had to sell those rare books. Chuck Senior may be a bad person, but everything he has done has been to help Chuck Jr., and in his efforts to take down Axe, Jr. has been corrupted enough that he is willing to sacrifice his friends and family to accomplish that.
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May 4, 2017 07:00
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Chuck Sr. is a morally bankrupt little man who is trying to live through his son the life of power and status he imagines he deserved but was denied.
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May 4, 2017 13:51
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It's amazing how completely unapologetic he was about breaking plan and just going all-in with the trust .
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May 4, 2017 13:54
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MiddleOne posted:It's amazing how completely unapologetic he was about breaking plan and just going all-in with the trust . I was never clear whether Chuck Jr's trust consisted of money earned by Chuck Jr himself, or money Chuck Sr. set aside for him.
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May 4, 2017 14:18
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