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Caesar Saladin
Aug 15, 2004



!Klams posted:

I'm gonna say as well that at first I bounced off Doom Eternal super hard, but this thread convinced me to persevere, and I'm very glad it did because actually the game becomes super fuckin' cool and good and now I really miss having something of it's calibre to play.

once you get far enough in doom eternal you can complain about the marauder like all the unskilled babies all over the internet

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Armitag3
Mar 15, 2020

Forget it Jake, it's cybertown.


Caesar Saladin posted:

once you get far enough in doom eternal you can complain about the marauder like all the unskilled babies all over the internet

It's an honor, Mr ZeroMaster sir

!Klams
Dec 25, 2005

Squid Squad


Caesar Saladin posted:

once you get far enough in doom eternal you can complain about the marauder like all the unskilled babies all over the internet

I think it was about that point in the game that I was like "Oh ok this is actually awesome" to be honest.

The 'only' thing I didn't like about it, in retrospect, was that you do all the cool tough key missions to unlock the hyper-awesome gun, but just before you unlock it you get the BFG which is obviously the greatest gun in any game and just shits on everything in the room, and then you unlock the Unmakyr and it's like "Oh hey it's like a shotgun only it eats your BFG ammo, also there are like two missions left, kthxbye"

But like, I'm even going back and looking for music from it to play on YouTube, which really surprised me coz I didn't feel especially attached to it while I was playing.

I think it really really fell short of the mark with it's intro, and first level. I think it falls so short and is such a failure, that it takes a long time before you get what it's 'actually' like. I 'think' it was trying to do that same "gently caress the story, I just wanna shoot stuff" thing that 2016 did, but it does it by throwing half a story at you, and making you play along with it like you have any idea what its going on about. And then, the QTE stuff at first is so absolutely vital to your survival it supersedes any other element of the gameplay. As the game goes on and you put points in health, ammo and armor so you have more of each, the game becomes way more fun. Not because it's easier, but because you're not 'quite' as beholden to the QTE stuff, and it actually becomes a case of you juggling it at your discretion, like a resource you're managing, instead of just a big loving exclamation mark demanding your attention every 5 seconds. I think they should have started you with essentially a point in each, but then made the enemies harder, or something.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Doom Eternal seems to be actually pretty daring for a AAA title with one of the biggest names in gaming, for trying a pretty unique mix of genres; been said it seems like a FPS crossed with a character action game like DMC or Bayonetta, with less combos and dodging and more resource management. Which could be said to be a logical descendant of the kind of game the original Doom is, constantly managing resources and opportunities during fast-paced action.

Might seem weird because it's the kind of game that's usually third-person, not first.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



They added a weapon that basically lets you get off multihit-combos in the final DLC

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Honestly it's the kind of thing that FPSes desperately need, experiments at least give you some data on what works and what doesn't, feels like the genre's had a lost decade.

JollyBoyJohn
Feb 13, 2019



!Klams posted:

Recently commented that I did a 180 and now think Hades actually deserved it's hype,

I am fully with you, I bounced off it when it first came out on Switch, the gameplay just felt so simplistic, and I didn't love the tiny combat areas. I love rogue-likes but I'm not a huge fan of ones which demand you fail in order to get more powerful. I went back and played about 6 hours off it during a sick day a couple of weeks back and I came to appreciate the design more, it helps that the presentation is stellar though - something Super Giant do well with every game.

As for Doom Eternal, I am very very curious about it, the reception to it seems far more mixed than I would have thought, I have loved every Doom game I have ever played (yes, even 3, yes even Doom 64) so I'm sure I would like it but I've set a price in my mind (10) which I'll happily snap it up for.

I think my unpopular opinion is that I really think First Person Shooters are my favourite genre, more in the sense that all my favourite games are First Person - Deus Ex, Thief, Doom, System Shock, Bioshock, Team Fortress, Prey, Half-Life, and I wish there was a brilliant First Person Shooter game that I hadn't played, call them an immersive sim if you want whatever but they always resonate with me much more than a third-person action game. (yes I've played Dusk)

Caesar Saladin
Aug 15, 2004



Doom Eternal is really fun but its gameplay isn't exactly like the previous one and you have to keep an open mind and let the gameplay develop, it asks for a pretty specific style of play where you rotate between melee, grenades and change guns often that isn't really like other FPS. In many ways it reminds me of Ratchet and Clank.

JollyBoyJohn
Feb 13, 2019



That sounds pretty cool honestly, I'd probably play through it on the easiest difficulty so I think I'd just appreciate the frantic FPS action

I was playing Serious Sam 1 the other day just for a fix

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




I feel it's a bit tragic that after so long, people are thrown by a FPS trying something new because it's been so loving long since that's happened.

Quote-Unquote
Oct 21, 2002



The rhythm stuff in doom eternal was fine but the platforming was dogshit so I stopped playing.

MrQwerty
Apr 15, 2003

Want a better avatar? Boom! Better avatar. Don't say you never got nothing.



Quote-Unquote posted:

The rhythm stuff in doom eternal was fine but the platforming was dogshit so I stopped playing.

yeah that's what got me, I had no problem keeping rhythm but fps platforming sucks dick, especially when you combine it with a rhythm game

is pepsi ok
Oct 23, 2002



I think there's a ton of potential in FPS roguelikes. There's a couple in early access right now like Roboquest and Gunfire Reborn. Once someone nails that formula I know it's gonna eat up all my time.

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

Official Forums Path of Exile Expert


is pepsi ok posted:

I think there's a ton of potential in FPS roguelikes. There's a couple in early access right now like Roboquest and Gunfire Reborn. Once someone nails that formula I know it's gonna eat up all my time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JJ9MaM2lWM

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005



I love Void Bastards and it's slick premise and presentation, but unfortunately it'll be up to its successor to 'nail it'.

edit: Everspace (the first, not the EA sequel) also did roguelike-FPS mix, except it was a space sim instead instead of being on foot. I'd recommend it, it's not perfect either but it does a better job than Void Bastards. The sequel will be open-world with a stronger emphasis on levels/grind, blergh.

Serephina fucked around with this message at 17:00 on May 17, 2021

Space Kablooey
May 6, 2009





I'm also pining for a roguelike/forever FPS that feels good to play and has enough levels that it doesn't feel samey to me too, while not feeling like a FPS MMORPG like Destiny 2. I'm hoping that OW2 will fit this bill with the PvE mode, but I lost trust in Blizzard to deliver.

I tried a couple of these FPS roguelites (Mothergunship, Immortal Redneck) and I wasn't impressed with either (though I sank a bunch of time in both). Both of them have an issue with a bunch of guns being too gimmicky or straight up pointless or just a tweaked versions of other guns. Also at some point enemies just become bullet sponges or the level generated is just a bunch of prefab rooms stuck together.

In the same vein, I've also downloaded a program to generate Doom 2 wads and I've found that it's a bit better on the underlying gameplay, but the prefab room feeling is also there (because the elements are prefabbed as well), and the pacing of levels are out of wack.

Fake edit: I also tried Void Bastards but it has similar issues to IR, with the added food/fuel metagame that I didn't really like too much and upgrading being fairly slow IME.

!Klams
Dec 25, 2005

Squid Squad


MrQwerty posted:

yeah that's what got me, I had no problem keeping rhythm but fps platforming sucks dick, especially when you combine it with a rhythm game

And this is I think why the intro is such poo poo, such a failure, because as the game goes on, the platforming actually works a 'little' more, and the rhythm game certainly picks up immensely, but at the very start, it throws lumps of both of them at you at the same time, and it's some of the worst stuff in the game. So right off the bat, you just get the worst taste for it, and then it doesn't actually improve for a while. How far did you get with it? I know it sucks to hear, but it honestly does get really good, but after an annoyingly long time. But it gets good enough that it is justified to put the time in!

When it does improve, it really really sings, it's so good when you get into the flow of a good arena, and you feel like you're fuckin stomping 'because' you're managing all your stuff well. Like the power fantasy of it is honestly pretty inspired, even if it takes a while to get good. When it does though, instead of going like "Oh, I'm in rough shape, I need a medpack, I'd better run away" you're going "Oh, I'm in rough shape, I'd better flamethrower some demons and tear the face off another one, better parkour it up over to that group of smaller ones the other side of the room, before this big bastard eats me!". Which, y'know, it's just so much more FUN, regardless of how 'cool' it is, and yeah, I get the QTE complaint, but honestly the QTE of 'running to a medpack' isn't more fun, and the brief moment of invincibility you get from the animation quickly becomes necessary for you to take stock of what you're doing so you can plan your next move, the pauses actually are a feature not a bug.

Definitely agree that it's hugely refreshing for the genre. Coming in hot off the heels of finishing 2016, it felt like such a step back, but having now finished them both, I'm keen to revisit Eternal, where I know I'll never actually go back to 2016.



JollyBoyJohn posted:

I think my unpopular opinion is that I really think First Person Shooters are my favourite genre, more in the sense that all my favourite games are First Person - Deus Ex, Thief, Doom, System Shock, Bioshock, Team Fortress, Prey, Half-Life, and I wish there was a brilliant First Person Shooter game that I hadn't played, call them an immersive sim if you want whatever but they always resonate with me much more than a third-person action game. (yes I've played Dusk)

100% agree on all counts, which is half the reason I was so bummed with Cyberpunk. I was so sure it was gonna fill that void. I would now add Doom Eternal to that list, tbh, and probably Titanfall 2 as well.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



JollyBoyJohn posted:


I think my unpopular opinion is that I really think First Person Shooters are my favourite genre, more in the sense that all my favourite games are First Person - Deus Ex, Thief, Doom, System Shock, Bioshock, Team Fortress, Prey, Half-Life, and I wish there was a brilliant First Person Shooter game that I hadn't played, call them an immersive sim if you want whatever but they always resonate with me much more than a third-person action game. (yes I've played Dusk)

Have you played EYE Divine Cybermancy?

nunsexmonkrock
Apr 13, 2008




I also like Justice League Task Force for the SNES. It let me play as Wonder Woman so it was awesome!

flavor.flv
Apr 18, 2008

I got a letter from the government the other day
opened it, read it
it said they was bitches




All snes games are awesome, even especially the ones commissioned by the american medical association to teach kids how to manage their asthma and diabetes

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Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!


flavor.flv posted:

All snes games are awesome, even especially the ones commissioned by the american medical association to teach kids how to manage their asthma and diabetes

but not lester the unlikely

actually lester the unlikely is also awesome it's just really lovely to play, like someone tried to take the slow precision puzzle controls of prince of persia and put them in a mario-paced 2d platformer

Fur20 fucked around with this message at 18:57 on May 17, 2021

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