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JollyBoyJohn
Feb 13, 2019



Somehow missed the lads doing a Stanley parable episode nine months ago

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Beartaco
Apr 10, 2007



I played through The Beginner's Guide at the behest of Gary and Kole at their start of the episode and it was a really good experience! It portrays a very well realised character and gives you a bunch of cool early Source environments to play around in.

I'm glad they mentioned that some people interpret it as a stance on women in game development because, knowing nothing about this going in other than Gary and Kole mentioning that maybe the narrator isn't the good guy in this story, it immediately felt very gendered to me even though the game does explicitly refer to Coda by he/him. I'm still not sure if that was intentional but I'm glad I wasn't alone in thinking that based on what the game presented.

But yeah, cool game, interesting themes. Well presented and well worth an hour and a half of your time. The sort of game that after playing I immediately turned back on the podcast to hear what other people had to say about it.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously



Finally picked up a FromSoftware game partially so I could listen to bonfireside. Really enjoying Bloodborne especially how it started out ridiculously hard but got much more manageable with leveling up. Oddly the bosses arenít too tough especially when an AI hunter assists, which seems like easy mode as they sit there as damage sponges drawing aggro.

What are recommendations for the next FromSoftware game? Is Elden Ring worth playing on PS4?

Samopsa
Nov 9, 2009

Krijgt geen speciaal kerstdiner!


elden ring is great, also on PS4. it does target 30fps though. Seeing as you've already started bloodborne, Elden Ring and Dark Souls 3 are closest in game-feel (but still pretty different). Dark souls 1+2 and Demon's souls will feel very slow compared to the newer games, the combat is way more deliberate and while the basic movement is the same, it feels very different. Still highly recommended, every entry in the souls series brings something great to the table.

Lester Shy
May 1, 2002

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Try playing them in release-order if possible. Not only are there a lot of story/setting references that make more sense if you've already played the previous games, but the first major boss in Elden Ring could easily be a late-game boss in DS1.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously



Samopsa posted:

elden ring is great, also on PS4. it does target 30fps though. Seeing as you've already started bloodborne, Elden Ring and Dark Souls 3 are closest in game-feel (but still pretty different). Dark souls 1+2 and Demon's souls will feel very slow compared to the newer games, the combat is way more deliberate and while the basic movement is the same, it feels very different. Still highly recommended, every entry in the souls series brings something great to the table.

Lester Shy posted:

Try playing them in release-order if possible. Not only are there a lot of story/setting references that make more sense if you've already played the previous games, but the first major boss in Elden Ring could easily be a late-game boss in DS1.

Thanks for info glad the PS4 port is quality, was worried it was a Cyberpunk fiasco. I donít have as much free time as I used to so will probably go with Elden Ring. I like how I can play Bloodborne in half hour increments and itís fun and I can make progress, but not realistic I could get through the whole DS series.

Samopsa
Nov 9, 2009

Krijgt geen speciaal kerstdiner!


Hyrax Attack! posted:

Thanks for info glad the PS4 port is quality, was worried it was a Cyberpunk fiasco. I donít have as much free time as I used to so will probably go with Elden Ring. I like how I can play Bloodborne in half hour increments and itís fun and I can make progress, but not realistic I could get through the whole DS series.

all DS games are excellent to play in 30-60 minutes increments, just play until you find a new bonfire/grace/lantern, or do a couple of boss runs! Elden Ring is amazing but also -very- long, easily two to three times the length of the original dark souls.

Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011






Lipstick Apathy

Iíve been listening to BFSC as I go through DS2 and itís pretty great going back and hearing how positive they were about it.

I listened to the DS3 series when I went through that game and it was far less positive. It honestly kind of dragged me down a bit.

Itís not on them - their criticisms are fair and you like what you like - but I prefer to hear positivity about a game in this type of deep dive series.

Good times are rolling again with Elden Ring.

Beartaco
Apr 10, 2007



I think The Beginner's Guide is the best videogame I've ever played. I see the themes it presents in everything now, especially in music. This idea that everything in art has to relate back to the artist when in reality you're just projecting your own lived experience back at what you're consuming. Garry and Kole said something along the lines of 'you can move the bar of symbolism as far back as you'd like' and I've done so. You can't possibly know a person based on the work they put out into the world, be it games, music, youtube videos, games club podcasts, etc. The Beginner's Guide presents a form of violence that was completely invisible to me.

A Strange Aeon
Mar 26, 2010

You are now a slimy little toad


The Great Twist

"The Death of the Author" is a 1967 essay by the French literary critic and theorist Roland Barthes. Barthes's essay argues against traditional literary criticism's practice of relying on the intentions and biography of an author to definitively explain the "ultimate meaning" of a text.

Beartaco
Apr 10, 2007



I'm no English major, I haven't actually read any of the essays, but my understanding is that Death of the Author is about using what we know about the authors lived experience in order to interpret their work. The Beginner's Guide looks at doing the exact opposite. It's about looking at the authors work in order to interpret their lived experience.

Beartaco
Apr 10, 2007



The biggest analogy I drew this past week was with female pop stars. Taylor Swift built a brand of pop music specifically based on this idea that by listening to her albums, you would understand her as a person. You would learn about her supposed trials and tribulations and whatever interpersonal relationship drama she's involved with, and I think that's set a precedent for pop music consumption.

I've been really into the artist Remi Wolf lately. I think that her debut album Juno is the best pop album of the century so I wanted to hear what other people thought about it (knowing full well the irony of seeking validation for my own opinions, given the text of The Beginner's Guide), and it's all people assuming her personal life based on what she puts in her music. The first track in the album is called Liquor Store. She sings about addiction, maybe to alcohol, maybe to relationships. It's an open ended bop but all of these youtube reviewers are talking about how she must have dealt with alcohol abuse in the past, that she must have been in these sorts of relationships.

It's not a farfetched idea to say that your interpretation of her music is representative of her lived experiences, but ultimately it's always just going to be your interpretation. You don't know this person, you're simply projecting your lived experience onto her work. Who are you to say that she doesn't just want to sing about alcoholism? Who are you to say that Coda doesn't simply like making prisons?

Beartaco
Apr 10, 2007



I've been watching a lot of youtubers play The Beginner's Guide because it's fun seeing other people crash head first into the twist. It turns out the author of the game did a reaction stream of one of the youtube reaction streams of his game which has been a fun/silly watch so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGAix9vHXW0

SkeletonHero
Sep 7, 2010

Skeleton War 2020


If Kole is reading I want him to know that Banished Knight Bill Engvall/"Here's your Darksign" got a good laugh out of me.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



Beartaco posted:

I'm no English major, I haven't actually read any of the essays, but my understanding is that Death of the Author is about using what we know about the authors lived experience in order to interpret their work. The Beginner's Guide looks at doing the exact opposite. It's about looking at the authors work in order to interpret their lived experience.

Death of the author is almost exactly the opposite of that. It argues that the Authors full intentions can never be known, so trying to divine their intentions from their lives is a fools errand, instead one should choose to take the text as impressionistic and allow for multiple layers of meaning unique to the viewer of the work. Don't feel bad, most people invoking death of the author also don't know what it is.

Beartaco
Apr 10, 2007



Right! That's what I meant. My understanding is that Death of the Author is about that concept while at the same time advocating against it. Much like The Beginner's Guide is about using the text to understand the author while also being explicitly against it.

Bug Squash
Mar 18, 2009



I never understood why we can't just appreciate both the author's intent and your personal relation to it. That's like getting twice as much art.

Old Swerdlow
Jul 24, 2008


You are. Itís just another tool used to study a subject.

Omon Ra
Nov 1, 2020




Im an English majro

Shardix
Sep 14, 2011

The end! No moral.


Bug Squash posted:

I never understood why we can't just appreciate both the author's intent and your personal relation to it. That's like getting twice as much art.

You might accidentally enjoy something the wrong way

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously



Enjoyed the Max Payne 3 ep, especially when they figured out Max is pretty much Detective Crashmore. Also liked the running joke of Max shooting rockets out of the air then bemoaning how terrible of a bodyguard he is.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously



Their game reviews are excellent but I think their movie reviews are becoming my favorite episodes. They had a good look at the Green Knight and I appreciated how they had different opinions on what happened during the ending.

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:


Soiled Meat

Hyrax Attack! posted:

Their game reviews are excellent but I think their movie reviews are becoming my favorite episodes. They had a good look at the Green Knight and I appreciated how they had different opinions on what happened during the ending.

Which show is this? Would love to hear it because I came away thinking that it was as close as we'll ever get to a Dark Souls movie-

Once-great kingdom in obvious decline/ruin
Everyone talks super-vague
Main character constantly gets their rear end kicked

I liked it, for the record.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously



C-Euro posted:

Which show is this? Would love to hear it because I came away thinking that it was as close as we'll ever get to a Dark Souls movie-

Once-great kingdom in obvious decline/ruin
Everyone talks super-vague
Main character constantly gets their rear end kicked

I liked it, for the record.

Bonfireside chat #195, itís a premium ep. Yeah I liked the movie too, although I had zero familiarity with the legend so it was hard to follow character relationships. Wish I had known going in that it was Camelot, the king was Arthur, his mom was Morgana, etc. great ending

Bug Squash
Mar 18, 2009



Hyrax Attack! posted:

Bonfireside chat #195, it’s a premium ep. Yeah I liked the movie too, although I had zero familiarity with the legend so it was hard to follow character relationships. Wish I had known going in that it was Camelot, the king was Arthur, his mom was Morgana, etc. great ending

The ambiguity of who the characters are lends to the tone imo, and keeps the viewer from ever feeling comfortable with the relationships. Gawain filling in the role of Mordred only works because that.

The five/ten minute instrumental epilogue was absolutely astounding.

I watched it back to back with the Lighthouse and I've been chasing that high ever since.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously



I enjoyed how the episode on Hercules 64 began with attacking Ocarina of Time again before getting to Sorbo. That was unexpected, I know if I tried to play Ocarina in 2022 it wouldnít hold up but great how thatís become a running network gag.

Beartaco
Apr 10, 2007



The "Gossip about Garry" episode with Will and Kole was amazing. I was in tears at the the eyeball bit because I was just as baffled as they were when I listened to that episode. My favourite part of that saga was when, after much debate about what the cardinal directions on a 3D map mean, Garry agreed that the best way to proceed with the eye chat was to start talking in terms of a well known orb: planet earth. Garry then immediately went: "Okay, now imagine that on a map."

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously



Beartaco posted:

The "Gossip about Garry" episode with Will and Kole was amazing. I was in tears at the the eyeball bit because I was just as baffled as they were when I listened to that episode. My favourite part of that saga was when, after much debate about what the cardinal directions on a 3D map mean, Garry agreed that the best way to proceed with the eye chat was to start talking in terms of a well known orb: planet earth. Garry then immediately went: "Okay, now imagine that on a map."

Oh nice! Is that the newest abject suffering?

Beartaco
Apr 10, 2007



Hyrax Attack! posted:

Oh nice! Is that the newest abject suffering?

Yeah, the Zoop episode!

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously



New show announced!
https://mobile.twitter.com/DuckfeedTV/status/1552792722746007552

Definitely gonna listen, already know what my first write in letter to the show is gonna be about (in a positive way)

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



That title really sucks

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously



Got a chuckle from Gary absolutely loving the teen sex romp comedy Joysticks and declaring it the best thing that has happened to him in 2022, and Kole queried if he liked it more than Elden Ring

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:


Soiled Meat

I haven't played FFXII but I always respected it for using the old-school Final Fantasy theme that later games forgot(?), so I listened to the generalities of this episode and now I think I want to play FFXII? A goon was kind enough to gift me the Zodiac Age version on Steam, gotta see what else is on my to-play list and if I need to rearrange some things just kidding I will never have time to get through that list.

Also you two mentioning Star Wars in the generalities made me think of what someone told me about the game's story years ago, in that it's A New Hope as told from the perspective of C-3PO and R2-D2. No idea if you make this same joke later in the ep!

killhamster
Apr 15, 2004

SCAMMER
Hero Member

XII is actually really good and has been my favorite since its release. I always dug the combat system and the more politically-oriented storyline, and the Zodiac Age release fixes a bunch of stuff that was kind of tedious about the original, as Gary points out. Definitely give it a shot if you have the time for it.

MMF Freeway
Sep 15, 2010

Later!


Wait wtf did I just see that Open Mike Eagle guests on bonfire side chat? That's so sick lol

Omon Ra
Nov 1, 2020




MMF Freeway posted:

Wait wtf did I just see that Open Mike Eagle guests on bonfire side chat? That's so sick lol
Wasn't familiar with him before, but it was a joy. He came across as a super smart dude.

EC
Jul 10, 2001

The Legend


Omon Ra posted:

Wasn't familiar with him before, but it was a joy. He came across as a super smart dude.

If you're a fan of hip-hop or just the process of making music, I can't recommend What Had Happened Was enough. Every season is a different guest (Prince Paul, El-P, and most recently Dante Ross) and they do a deep dive into each guest's career. Even if you don't recognize the guests, Mike does a great job introducing the listener to them.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously



The Abject Suffering on Gilliganís Island is excellent, Gary introduces an interesting take on the character

Beartaco
Apr 10, 2007



Hyrax Attack! posted:

The Abject Suffering on Gilliganís Island is excellent, Gary introduces an interesting take on the character

I didn't even know what Gilligan's Island was until I listened to that episode. I'd heard the name, but that's about it. It was really funny listening to them dunk on this weird old sitcom from 60 years ago.

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Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously



Beartaco posted:

I didn't even know what Gilligan's Island was until I listened to that episode. I'd heard the name, but that's about it. It was really funny listening to them dunk on this weird old sitcom from 60 years ago.

Yeah Kole summed it up well about how it was trash but kid friendly and in reruns on cable so little kids growing up in the 90s saw a lot of it despite not liking it. Now Iím trying to think of what shows from the 60s hold up and are worth seeking out. Star Trek & Twilight Zone for sureÖ definitely also Batman. That was a delightful surprise to learn Adam West is good at comedy.

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