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  • Locked thread
Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Lots of words not saying much.

I thought it was odd that chaos/TM came in with a lurker case all of a sudden. At the same time, lynching someone who hadn't once posted was ok with me.

I thought they were both scum after Mr. F!s flip, so I killed TM.

One of you is scum. If I get lynched, town loses. It's funny having a 2-page game, but I'm honestly not going to go deep into this and argue with either of you. Make your choices. I'm not going to risk voting.

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sentimental snail
Nov 22, 2007

DID YOU SEE MY
PEYOTE QUEEN?


Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Lots of words not saying much.

I thought it was odd that chaos/TM came in with a lurker case all of a sudden. At the same time, lynching someone who hadn't once posted was ok with me.

I thought they were both scum after Mr. F!s flip, so I killed TM.

One of you is scum. If I get lynched, town loses. It's funny having a 2-page game, but I'm honestly not going to go deep into this and argue with either of you. Make your choices. I'm not going to risk voting.

you should argue your point, because if you're really town, it will win us the game rather than lose us the game. do you not think that post I quoted was weird? he comes out with a strong town read on you for something he would do as scum.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


windshipper posted:

Pretty sure we oughta ignore this role PM crap and do this instead:

##Vote Tired Moritz

because that was a scummy post.

windshipper posted:

To clarify - I think it's highly likely he's town.

I also know as scum, were I to receive that in my role PM, if I had the chance I'd be the first one to make nearly that exact same post.

Chances are he is town both numbers wise and the fact that I don't know if many scum would be so quick to make that post, but I think it is more likely than not that he is town.

On top of that, I think your post is phrased scummily and I think you being so quick to write him off as town is scummy. Calling people town is an easy thing to fall back on as scum.

First one is, "poo poo, I slipped. Let's get off that track."

Second is, "gently caress, I know he's town but I need to come up with a rambling answer to justify my call."

I didn't look carefully at his responses yesterday, but now that I know one of you is scum, this stuff stands out.

Stiiiilll not gonna vote though lol

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010



Votecount for Day 2



Not Voting (3): this is a stickup, Tobbs Gnawed, windshipper

With 3 alive, it's 2 votes to execute. The current deadline is March 02nd, 2017 at 11:33 p.m. EST -- that's in about 5 hours, 20 minutes.

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

First one is, "poo poo, I slipped. Let's get off that track."

Second is, "gently caress, I know he's town but I need to come up with a rambling answer to justify my call."

I didn't look carefully at his responses yesterday, but now that I know one of you is scum, this stuff stands out.

Stiiiilll not gonna vote though lol

lol

I've been quiet because I had to give a 3 hour lecture last night, help my parents out on their horse farm this morning, and just got home to see my wife earlier today.

ANYWAYS

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Giving this a second look, nothing had been posted that matches the actual town wincon.

This is incorrect.

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

I win when there are no threats to TOWN but it doesn't explicitly say that I am town-aligned.

Am I a 3P town+ vanilla vigilante?

Cause that would be exciting.

You yourself posted that.

You're stretching mightily in order to try and build a case because you're stuck and not sure how to win the game.

In addition to that,

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

First one is, "poo poo, I slipped. Let's get off that track."

Second is, "gently caress, I know he's town but I need to come up with a rambling answer to justify my call."

I didn't look carefully at his responses yesterday, but now that I know one of you is scum, this stuff stands out.

Stiiiilll not gonna vote though lol

For your first point I present these posts - I argue against focusing on the role PM crap because of these points I make

windshipper posted:

Thoughts on Tired Moritz?

And yes, I acknowledge that they usually don't send the scum new role PMs. Again, I maintain my stance that until I see a card flip on a player, I'm not going to call them confirmed town. In addition, I hold in suspicion those who automatically refer to someone as "sure" town. That's an easy stance to take on a player.

And no, once the first one or two people have responded, you can no longer "break" the game. In a small game like this that's helpful, for sure, but...

I don't trust a player to be town until I see cardflip. I think they might be more likely town than no, but I'm not gonna dismiss anyone as not being scum until it's confirmed.

In addition, as I told you in a prior post - That whole spiel about you trying to break the game doesn't work past the first one or maybe two players who confirm their win condition. And that's assuming the scum don't have the proper town fake claim in the first place.

Oh yeah and I killed chaoslord.

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

Combine the case you've built, the massive stretches you've made in it, along with your response to me asking what your thoughts on tired moritz are, and I'm certain you're scum.

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

I would argue that Tobbs as scum was in fact given a town fake claim that was exactly as I predicted:

windshipper posted:

That's a dumb line of thinking. Do you not think mafia would receive a fake role PM just in case?

Especially considering that the mod gave townies a different PM than was in the OP. It makes more sense that he'd copy/paste it to all of us and then also into the mafia role PM. It's not like mods fuckin' hand write every single role pm for a generic role with a quill pen and ink well, and only send it out on the finest parchment.

Qualifications - look at the games list on votefinder and search my name. And then also know I did this before votefinder was a thing.

windshipper posted:

Lol that's not a hint bro. He outright said it.

And if the mod changed poo poo, why wouldn't he?

Laziness sure, not to throw the mod under the bus, but yeah he could leave the OP as is and all and say, "gently caress it" to the scum, but... It's wiser to be cautious as town than totally accepting of any and every claim ever. That's just basic logic.

You noticed that win condition and that there was no alignment, and made that move to try and confirm yourself as town, coast the rest of the game.

In addition, when pressed for an opinion -

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

This pings me a little. The description in the OP talks about eliminating scum, but the actual role PM doesn't mention them.

Is it a slip, or just an interpretation of the actual town role PM? I'm not sold on it 100%, but I think it's worth putting pressure on him.

With 6 players, we probably have 2 scum, making today MYLO (if you ignore the vigs or they all fail).

I think we probably get one lynch, we're going to take our shots tonight, and the game is going to be over N1.

If that's true, this is our only day of discussion, so we need to hear from everyone.

You give a vague response that allows you to wiffle waffle.

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Maybe I was reading into him too much, but when he says "I have a pro town win condition so I am town" it makes me think of the sample VT role PM in the OP, where it's mentioned that scum need to be eliminated.

Of course, the one in the OP also explicitly states alignment. TM's response seemed awkward to me.

WRT only having a single vote on someone, I'm inclined to agree. It's 4 to lynch, and with two scum all it takes is for 2 town votes to be on someone for scum to finish the lynch.

And this one again allows you to back out. You offer no opinions on anyone the rest of the game.

Then we come to today and you come out hard with a case that is a stretch at best.

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

but like, literally, it's the second post you make in the game. You state the win condition "You win when there are no threats to TOWN"

Which honestly should be modkillable for quoting role PM crap but that's neither here nor there.

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

Also, I'm wondering if you weren't mod killed for pulling that poo poo specifically because you are the only scum in the game.

Normally that would be grounds to modkill a townie doing that poo poo because it does effectively make them confirmed town in a lot of cases. In addition to all of this - If I were scum I would have killed you last night because you had made yourself so townie looking. You would be the one person I wouldn't want to be up against in end game. Yet, you're alive.

Why?

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

Come on... 4 hours to go. Where is everyone?

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Well that's easy. Either scum doesn't have a NK, or you're scum.

##vote windshipper

Up to you sticky lol

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Well that's easy. Either scum doesn't have a NK, or you're scum.

##vote windshipper

Up to you sticky lol

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

chaoslord, TOWN aligned Vanilla Vigilante, has died.
Tired Moritz, TOWN aligned Saboteur Vigilante, has died.

It is now Day 2.

Tobbs Gnawed, windshipper, this is a stickup remain alive.

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

Why did you kill Tired Moritz?

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

Also also,

##vote Tobbs Gnawed

By the way, why are you still alive?

And you haven't responded to any of my points or anything I've said, much less make any effort to counter what I responded to you with.

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

Like, I'd think my reaction to Chaoslord explains perfectly well why I tried to kill him. Especially with him jumping into the thread the way he did.


Also right now I have a fear I'm wrong and it's this is a stickup.

Especially now that I realize you killed Tired Moritz - I missed that post from the beginning of the day.

This is a Stickup stating that he tried to kill chaoslord and his gun jammed is just.... fishy now.

poo poo.

In any case, scum would want to leave chaoslord alive given what he did yesterday, so I suppose I believe it. But you are definitely someone they would want dead - unless you are the scum.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


I don't really see a need for it. I killed TM, you killed chaoslord.

I know you're scum, so stickers gets to pick. He can win the game for town by voting you, or he can lose it by voting me.

I already said why I killed TM anyways, it's odd that you'd spit out 800 posts without seeing that.

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

I don't really see a need for it. I killed TM, you killed chaoslord.

I know you're scum, so stickers gets to pick. He can win the game for town by voting you, or he can lose it by voting me.

I already said why I killed TM anyways, it's odd that you'd spit out 800 posts without seeing that.

*shrug* I skimmed to catch up, saw your arguments against me, laughed.

Dude, you posted the goddamn win condition in your second post. You built your case around that for the most part. You're stretching for a case by picking the person with the highest post count, which means it's the person you could try to pick apart the most since there's more there than anyone else.

Even your whole, "poo poo I slipped" thing is built around you claiming to have not posted the win condition WHICH YOU POSTED AND WAS CONFIRMED IN MY OWN ROLE PM.

lol

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


windshipper posted:

Like, I'd think my reaction to Chaoslord explains perfectly well why I tried to kill him. Especially with him jumping into the thread the way he did.


Also right now I have a fear I'm wrong and it's this is a stickup.

Especially now that I realize you killed Tired Moritz - I missed that post from the beginning of the day.

This is a Stickup stating that he tried to kill chaoslord and his gun jammed is just.... fishy now.

poo poo.

In any case, scum would want to leave chaoslord alive given what he did yesterday, so I suppose I believe it. But you are definitely someone they would want dead - unless you are the scum.

Yeah, if you were town then you wouldn't be concerned about stickup. I killed TM, you killed chaoslord. One of us used a NK, the other our 1-shot vig.

There's 0% chance sticky is scum.

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

You tried to pick what you thought would be an easy target to argue as scum (since you are scum) and it's loving funny.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


windshipper posted:

*shrug* I skimmed to catch up, saw your arguments against me, laughed.

Dude, you posted the goddamn win condition in your second post. You built your case around that for the most part. You're stretching for a case by picking the person with the highest post count, which means it's the person you could try to pick apart the most since there's more there than anyone else.

Even your whole, "poo poo I slipped" thing is built around you claiming to have not posted the win condition WHICH YOU POSTED AND WAS CONFIRMED IN MY OWN ROLE PM.

lol

???

The wincon I quoted was from the OP, it's not the same as what AA gave town in their role PMs.

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Yeah, if you were town then you wouldn't be concerned about stickup. I killed TM, you killed chaoslord. One of us used a NK, the other our 1-shot vig.

There's 0% chance sticky is scum.

If I was town I would be concerned about sticky temporarily. Tired Moritz is a smart target to choose as scum because he's a non-factor more or less one way or the other, people would argue he could be town because he's just "him" - and in addition to that Stickup pointed out that he's kind of townie because that's just how people respond to him.

That then leads to scum being able to kill him and pass it off as a vig shot because they were "suspicious" of him.

Meanwhile, yesterday you had no goddamn opinion on him at all other than some waffle-ing. You never posted why you thought he was scum other than some vague fingerwaving in his general direction. Then you jump on a lurker lynch.

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

You win when there are no more threats to TOWN. That is the win condition I have received.

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

I win when there are no threats to TOWN but it doesn't explicitly say that I am town-aligned.

Am I a 3P town+ vanilla vigilante?

Cause that would be exciting.

THIS is what you posted.

The same goddamn win condition.

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

Read the goddamn posts I made you imbecile. Stop flailing.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


If you can convince sticky to vote me (or he doesn't vote) you win.

You can't convince me that you're not scum, though. You admitted to performing the NK.

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

If you can convince sticky to vote me (or he doesn't vote) you win.

You can't convince me that you're not scum, though. You admitted to performing the NK.

I admitted to vigilante killing chaoslord, yes. Why would I kill him if I were scum? He'd be GREAT to keep around in end game.

Think through your stretchy argument.

Also, do you deny that you posted the town win condition?

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


P sure the best slip of yours is just now where you thought stick was scum.

If you were town and killed chaos with a vig, you'd think my kill was a NK.

Going after anyone else (and pretending you didn't see that I killed TM) is fatal for you.

I'm confident stick will win this for us.

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

P sure the best slip of yours is just now where you thought stick was scum.

If you were town and killed chaos with a vig, you'd think my kill was a NK.

Going after anyone else (and pretending you didn't see that I killed TM) is fatal for you.

I'm confident stick will win this for us.

I actually didn't see you claimed that kill, no. I skimmed the thread when I got back because I was also working on my 3 hour lecture for Monday night.

That gave me a moment of hesitation as I was thinking it through, and then realized what I posted about TM being a great choice as a nightkill as scum for you. Hence the train of thought post.

Again, why would I kill chaoslord as scum?

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

One last question I would LOVE for you to answer-

Why are you still alive?

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

And do you deny posting the town win condition?

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

I win when there are no threats to TOWN but it doesn't explicitly say that I am town-aligned.

Am I a 3P town+ vanilla vigilante?

Cause that would be exciting.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


windshipper posted:

And do you deny posting the town win condition?

Dude several words in the wincon are different. What you keep posting is paraphrased.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


I'm alive because you didn't kill me.

Maybe you thought we had a rapport D1 and you thought you could convince me stickers was scum?

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Dude several words in the wincon are different. What you keep posting is paraphrased.

That is, word for word, what I received in my role PM. Just replace "I" with "you". And remove all the poo poo about "but it doesn't..."

And again, as scum, why would I kill Chaoslord?

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


windshipper posted:

That is, word for word, what I received in my role PM. Just replace "I" with "you". And remove all the poo poo about "but it doesn't..."

And again, as scum, why would I kill Chaoslord?

So you could justify your kill as a vig?

Sticky chose the same target so the person you need to convince was with you there.

Smart!

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

Why did you kill Tired Moritz? Link me or argue it here, whatever. Doesn't matter.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Lots of words not saying much.

I thought it was odd that chaos/TM came in with a lurker case all of a sudden. At the same time, lynching someone who hadn't once posted was ok with me.

I thought they were both scum after Mr. F!s flip, so I killed TM.


One of you is scum. If I get lynched, town loses. It's funny having a 2-page game, but I'm honestly not going to go deep into this and argue with either of you. Make your choices. I'm not going to risk voting.

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?


If I unvote you, will you unvote me?

windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

I'm starting to have second thoughts.

I'm worried that I got hosed by the mod.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

Why won't he die?


windshipper posted:

If I unvote you, will you unvote me?

I don't know when stick is gonna show up.

I know you're scum.

If we no-lynch, we lose.

So no I'm not unvoting you.

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windshipper
Jun 19, 2006

Dr. Whet Faartz would like to know if this smells funny to you?

We've got like what, 3 hours or some poo poo? My wife is gonna be home in somewhere between half an hour to an hour, and at that point wherever my vote is, it stays. I want to talk this through. I'm worried we got played and I got hosed by the mod.

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