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COMRADES
Apr 3, 2017

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Ham Sandwiches posted:

What I'm curious about is why funds, hedge funds, and financial institutions have started using Bitcoins if it is gambling? These companies are not in the business of gambling so presumably if that's what they are doing, they are violating their fiduciary duty to their shareholders. Like, I'm not aware of the Fidelity CEO taking a few billion down to Vegas to invest in roulette and then posting those returns. I've never heard of such a thing, maybe you have some recent examples.

I have an example it is called the 2008 mortgage crisis.

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Moola
Aug 16, 2006



I just bought 500 bitcoins based on the title of this thread

I have not read any posts how do I get rich???

COMRADES
Apr 3, 2017

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Real talk though the entities you mention gamble all the time because they know they will get a taxpayer bailout and do it again and this has happened over and over and over.

Why wouldn't they gamble on BTC? The potential wins are large and if they lose it doesn't matter.

ALSO though, there are many speculative gamble trades like that but you will not find a major fund that is heavily invested into BTC as a % of their portfolio. You just won't.

Chitin
Apr 29, 2007

It is no sign of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

Ham Sandwiches sounds like someone who, pre-crash, would mock people questioning Bernie Madoff's investment firm. "You idiots, it's gone up 15% EVERY YEAR! But here you are, still calling it a scam and telling people not to invest. You said the same thing LAST year but it's still going up!"

The fact that people have not yet en masse realised that the emperor has no clothes does not, in fact, mean that the people pointing out that they can see his dick are the idiots.

Burt Sexual
Jan 26, 2006

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


Switchblade Switcharoo

Ham Sandwiches posted:

Ok David I'll give you an effortpost reply to your efforpost but I will need a bit, please check back later tonight or tomorrow and we can continue arguing.

I'm going to take issue right now with your use of the word gambling. You strike me as a person that gives financial advice to people regularly, and that you use the term gambling to discourage them from investments you don't think are prudent.

What I'm curious about is why funds, hedge funds, and financial institutions have started using Bitcoins if it is gambling? These companies are not in the business of gambling so presumably if that's what they are doing, they are violating their fiduciary duty to their shareholders. Like, I'm not aware of the Fidelity CEO taking a few billion down to Vegas to invest in roulette and then posting those returns. I've never heard of such a thing, maybe you have some recent examples.

And yet Fidelity is straight up mining bitcoins
https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/28/f...yptocurrencies/

And there's real funds traded on real exchanges that track Bitcoin
http://www.investopedia.com/article...n-gbtc-arkw.asp

So clearly real companies with real executives and real people are allowed to speculate in currency, but if any regular person should consider, then it is Gambling and imprudent. I think it's bullshit that this double standard gets pushed on people with this sort of bizarre aim of protecting them from themselves, telling them to invest in their 401k, pay their taxes, brush their teeth and floss twice a day, remember to breathe, let it go, and all sorts of other lovely advice that people feel they need to give to the other idiots to save them from themselves.

And I'm telling you it is the height of bullshit to single out individuals for considering something while millionaires, hedge funds, countries, groups of investors all scramble to establish a position in it.

Ok Iím convinced, but what are your financial advising certifications and licensing? Iím in 10k

COMRADES
Apr 3, 2017

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


quote:

So clearly real companies with real executives and real people are allowed to speculate in currency, but if any regular person should consider, then it is Gambling and imprudent.

Every time you call it a currency you reveal how little you are informed in this area. Like I'm not trying to be a dick or anything but just something to keep in mind for future BTC threads idk.

You can't pay taxes with it. They are not pegged to any useful commodity. It isn't a currency.

Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000



COMRADES posted:

Real talk though the entities you mention gamble all the time because they know they will get a taxpayer bailout and do it again and this has happened over and over and over.

It's only gambling if individuals do it, these are real companies investing real money so they don't gamble.

quote:

Why wouldn't they gamble on BTC? The potential wins are large and if they lose it doesn't matter.

ALSO though, there are many speculative gamble trades like that but you will not find a major fund that is heavily invested into BTC as a % of their portfolio. You just won't.

No dude an investment is not a gamble, that guy wrote out so many words to explain the difference. I'm just asking why using his definitions none of the big financials do "gambling" the way people understand it, ie going to a casino and betting on games of chance. And yet they mine and invest in bitcoins. Clearly it's different but he doesn't recognize the difference, which is loving rhetorical garbage that he uses to browbeat individuals into investing his way.

Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000



COMRADES posted:

Every time you call it a currency you reveal how little you are informed in this area. Like I'm not trying to be a dick or anything but just something to keep in mind for future BTC threads idk.

You can't pay taxes with it. It isn't a currency.

I see, I can't pay my taxes in Yen either, clearly not a real currency right???

COMRADES
Apr 3, 2017

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Ham Sandwiches posted:

It's only gambling if individuals do it, these are real companies investing real money so they don't gamble.


No dude an investment is not a gamble, that guy wrote out so many words to explain the difference. I'm just asking why using his definitions none of the big financials do "gambling" the way people understand it, ie going to a casino and betting on games of chance. And yet they mine and invest in bitcoins. Clearly it's different but he doesn't recognize the difference, which is loving rhetorical garbage that he uses to browbeat individuals into investing his way.

Because you think dropping .01% of a portfolio on a total longshot trade is akin to going and spinning the roulette wheel with the principal and that makes you a giblet head Dale.

COMRADES
Apr 3, 2017

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Ham Sandwiches posted:

I see, I can't pay my taxes in Yen either, clearly not a real currency right???

You can pay Japanese taxes in Yen lmao. Thus Yen carries value because everyone in Japan needs Yen to pay their taxes. This is called a fiat currency.

EorayMel
May 29, 2015

You got the fluffy kitty kitty!


Moola posted:

I just bought 500 bitcoins based on the title of this thread

I have not read any posts how do I get rich???

Send your bitcoins to this website to get rich.

Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000



Chitin posted:

Ham Sandwiches sounds like someone who, pre-crash, would mock people questioning Bernie Madoff's investment firm. "You idiots, it's gone up 15% EVERY YEAR! But here you are, still calling it a scam and telling people not to invest. You said the same thing LAST year but it's still going up!"

Things bitcoins are like:
Tulips
Ponzi Schemes
Gambling in las Vegas

Things bitcoins are NOT like:
sound financial instruments
stocks - those have INHERENT VALUE
currency

Repeat this at $700

And then at $1500

And then at $2500

and then at $4k

And then go "umm just because the numbers, hedge funds, countries, retailers, and people using this keep going up doesn't mean I'm wrong"

and you have the formula the SA forums have enjoyed the past few years. It's loving great.

COMRADES
Apr 3, 2017

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


EorayMel posted:

Send your bitcoins to this website to get rich.



Excuse me my Jita scams are PATENTED YOU CANNOT DO THIS

Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000



COMRADES posted:

You can pay Japanese taxes in Yen lmao. Thus Yen carries value because everyone in Japan needs Yen to pay their taxes. This is called a fiat currency.

Yeah but as an American I can still buy and trade it even though I can't pay my taxes in it... now what

That also applies for Japanese people that own US dollars are you loving with me here dude!!!!

They can't pay their taxes with these things!!

COMRADES
Apr 3, 2017

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Ham Sandwiches posted:

Things bitcoins are like:
Tulips
Ponzi Schemes
Gambling in las Vegas

Things bitcoins are NOT like:
sound financial instruments
stocks - those have INHERENT VALUE
currency

Repeat this at $700

And then at $1500

And then at $2500

and then at $4k

And then go "umm just because the numbers, hedge funds, countries, retailers, and people using this keep going up doesn't mean I'm wrong"

and you have the formula the SA forums have enjoyed the past few years. It's loving great.

lol

Be one of the owners of 70% of the BTCs stolen by Mt Gox.

Waffle House
Oct 26, 2004

beep beEP BEEP

COMRADES posted:

Excuse me my Jita scams are PATENTED YOU CANNOT DO THIS

actual lol irl was thus achieved

COMRADES
Apr 3, 2017

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Ham Sandwiches posted:

Yeah but as an American I can still buy and trade it even though I can't pay my taxes in it... now what

That also applies for Japanese people that own US dollars are you loving with me here dude!!!!

They can't pay their taxes with these things!!

I mean this is like basic definitions of terms in 101 classes idk what to tell you.

Fiat currency = currencies backed by a sovereign gov't that require payment of that currency for their taxes.
Commodity currency = currencies whose value is derived from a specific unit of the commodity itself. Gold/silver/salt/etc.

BTC is which?

gary oldmans diary
Sep 26, 2005



COMRADES posted:

I have an example it is called the 2008 mortgage crisis.


the ltcm crash was technically way cooler though. ltcm changed the way the markets worked when it rose and then again when it crashed. the midas formula is a good watch

Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000



COMRADES posted:

I mean this is like basic definitions of terms in 101 classes idk what to tell you.

Fiat currency = currencies backed by a sovereign gov't that require payment of that currency for their taxes.
Commodity currency = currencies whose value is derived from a specific unit of the commodity itself. Gold/silver/salt/etc.

BTC is which?

Ok. You are telling me that you can't pay taxes in bitcoin and that makes it fake.

If an American holds US Dollars that's great because they can pay their taxes in US Dollars to the US, where they live. That checks out.

Except an American can also buy Yen, and they can't pay their US taxes in Yen.

And Japanese people can buy Dollars, which they also can't pay Japanese taxes in.

How does the yen become more real to Japanese people since they can pay taxes in it and less real to Americans since they can't??

Blade Runner
Aug 14, 2015



The nature of my job means that it's prudent for me to be on the up and up about how finance stuff works, but I don't think that's directly relevant to the discussion. I can accept that it's very possible that large scale financial institutions may invest in Bitcoin, but I would also sincerely advise wariness about the why of that. I'd always advise wariness about any investment if you do not understand why that is happening; that something is going to go up really can't be enough. These banks are indeed willing to simply gamble because they can re-acquire their investments through tax dollars very easily, but it's also important to understand that the core concepts of Bitcoin are not well protected against the scale of force that large financial institutions can bring to bear. The Bitcoin market is very easy to manipulate; simple scams can very easily drive the price up or down(Typically up.)by market manipulation which is used to put out sell or buy orders never intended to be fulfilled. A system like this simply cannot weather the force of wealth a bank can bring to bear; consider my last post, when I laid out the point that someone must lose in Bitcoin.

Do you really want to put your investment knowledge and ability to manipulate financial markets against that of an entire financial institution?

Relative to your above point about the nature of currency, currency has valuation because it's directly representative of the worth and/or wealth of a nation which has printed it. An American dollar is backed by the American government, and its use worth thereby enforced by said government's economic production. It's similar to a company which produces valued products, in this sense; for a simplistic view, think of an American dollar as a share in the United States. By holding this currency, you are directly investing in the US.

Blade Runner fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Oct 5, 2017

COMRADES
Apr 3, 2017

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Ham Sandwiches posted:

Ok. You are telling me that you can't pay taxes in bitcoin and that makes it fake.

If an American holds US Dollars that's great because they can pay their taxes in US Dollars to the US, where they live. That checks out.

Except an American can also buy Yen, and they can't pay their US taxes in Yen.

And Japanese people can buy Dollars, which they also can't pay Japanese taxes in.

How does the yen become more real to Japanese people since they can pay taxes in it and less real to Americans since they can't??

Are you having a stroke?

Ham Sandwiches posted:

How does the yen become more real to Japanese people since they can pay taxes in it and less real to Americans since they can't??

If you are Japanese and without sufficient Yen you get arrested and imprisoned. If you are American without sufficient USD, same.

I can buy LEGO with my USD that doesn't mean LEGO are now a currency.

EorayMel
May 29, 2015

You got the fluffy kitty kitty!


David Heinrich posted:

The nature of my job means that it's prudent for me to be on the up and up about how finance stuff works, but I don't think that's directly relevant to the discussion. I can accept that it's very possible that large scale financial institutions may invest in Bitcoin, but I would also sincerely advise wariness about the why of that. I'd always advise wariness about any investment if you do not understand why that is happening; that something is going to go up really can't be enough. These banks are indeed willing to simply gamble because they can re-acquire their investments through tax dollars very easily, but it's also important to understand that the core concepts of Bitcoin are not well protected against the scale of force that large financial institutions can bring to bear. The Bitcoin market is very easy to manipulate; simple scams can very easily drive the price up or down(Typically up.)by market manipulation which is used to put out sell or buy orders never intended to be fulfilled. A system like this simply cannot weather the force of wealth a bank can bring to bear; consider my last post, when I laid out the point that someone must lose in Bitcoin.

Do you really want to put your investment knowledge and ability to manipulate financial markets against that of an entire financial institution?

Nah man. Look at how owned you are. You are so loving stupid all these years because you're wrong about bitcoin. lol.

Also, it is never a bad time to break out this:

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000



David Heinrich posted:

The nature of my job means that it's prudent for me to be on the up and up about how finance stuff works, but I don't think that's directly relevant to the discussion. I can accept that it's very possible that large scale financial institutions may invest in Bitcoin, but I would also sincerely advise wariness about the why of that. I'd always advise wariness about any investment if you do not understand why that is happening; that something is going to go up really can't be enough. These banks are indeed willing to simply gamble because they can re-acquire their investments through tax dollars very easily, but it's also important to understand that the core concepts of Bitcoin are not well protected against the scale of force that large financial institutions can bring to bear. The Bitcoin market is very easy to manipulate; simple scams can very easily drive the price up or down(Typically up.)by market manipulation which is used to put out sell or buy orders never intended to be fulfilled. A system like this simply cannot weather the force of wealth a bank can bring to bear; consider my last post, when I laid out the point that someone must lose in Bitcoin.

This seems to be trying very hard to avoid the narrow definition of gambling that was just established at length. I am accusing you of having a double standard that it's gambling if an individual does it, investment if an institution does it. If someone has faith that bitcoin will continue to legitimize as an investment it does not make them a gambler. Clearly these institutions think it could pan off and are hedging their bets. It's loving ridiculous that you are painting individuals as reckless gamblers for trying to mirror the behavior of major institutions if they so choose.

It is literally this that bothers me so much about all the bitcoin discussions. People are meant to be kept away from potential things at all costs, because this guy knows its gambling and knows better. loving BS.

quote:

Do you really want to put your investment knowledge and ability to manipulate financial markets against that of an entire financial institution?

You mean, what happens when you invest in wall street? Or is it not ok to imply that the hedge funds and wall street banks are largely concerned with their own well-being and not that of the overall market? HFT is great stuff, algorithms are great stuff, short selling is great stuff, stock manipulation is great stuff, and NONE OF THAT happens on Wall Street where major firms make billions systematically taking value from individual investors and weak hands

EorayMel
May 29, 2015

You got the fluffy kitty kitty!


Ham Sandwiches posted:

It is literally this that bothers me so much about all the bitcoin discussions. People are meant to be kept away from potential things at all costs, because this guy knows its gambling and knows better. loving BS.

lol @ this comment alone

Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000



EorayMel posted:

lol @ this comment alone

Yeah, what's your issue with it?

COMRADES
Apr 3, 2017

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Ham Sandwiches posted:

This seems to be trying very hard to avoid the narrow definition of gambling that was just established at length. I am accusing you of having a double standard that it's gambling if an individual does it, investment if an institution does it. If someone has faith that bitcoin will continue to legitimize as an investment it does not make them a gambler. Clearly these institutions think it could pan off and are hedging their bets. It's loving ridiculous that you are painting individuals as reckless gamblers for trying to mirror the behavior of major institutions if they so choose.

It's gambling because you have a risk of total loss which isn't insignificant in exchange for maybe substantial returns based on nothing other than 'number go up people happy make number go up more.'

There's no business plan to invest in, there's no revenues to buy a share of, there's literally nothing other than this widget which is valued highly simply because, in your own words, people value it highly.

Ham Sandwiches posted:

It is literally this that bothers me so much about all the bitcoin discussions. People are meant to be kept away from potential things at all costs, because this guy knows its gambling and knows better. loving BS.

You mean, what happens when you invest in wall street? Or is it not ok to imply that the hedge funds and wall street banks are largely concerned with their own well-being and not that of the overall market? HFT is great stuff, algorithms are great stuff, short selling is great stuff, stock manipulation is great stuff, and NONE OF THAT happens on Wall Street where major firms make billions systematically taking value from individual investors and weak hands

That's why you don't be a retail day trader and just stick your money into a diversified portfolio. I'd have similar advice about penny stocks as with BTC. Penny stocks are gambling too.

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009




COMRADES posted:

Well but has there ever been a period where there wasn't some weird stuff happening with BTC?


HFT algorithms aren't fake and anomalous trades though so maybe I'm not getting what you're putting down correctly?

Although moot point I guess because looks like according to your chart the volumes are totally different from the other and to be quite honest I'm not going to spend the time to verify why they say what they do and I'll just take your argument at face value.


Ok see now this is a big red flag if true though. This is a huge reason why penny stocks are garbage; one player can manipulate the price heavily.


Change the time interval here to 4h
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitfinex/btcusd

September 14

A massive selloff that began triggering margin calls halted by $150m worth of coins being purchased.

http://omniexplorer.info/lookupadd....Mo5LsPTW1zBTwXL

$25m created on sept 3, 5, 7, 14.

Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000



COMRADES posted:

It's gambling because you have a risk of total loss which isn't insignificant in exchange for maybe substantial returns based on nothing other than 'number go up people happy make number go up more.'

If you believe that countries may consider it as an alternative to a specific fiat currency, or that it will have some role in the upcoming global chaos / turmoil then no actually it means that your reasons are actually more detailed than "number go up people happy" even if other people disagree with those reasons

COMRADES
Apr 3, 2017

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Ham Sandwiches posted:

If you believe that countries may consider it as an alternative to a specific fiat currency

Why would they ever do this?

e: And why BTC, specifically?

Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000



COMRADES posted:

Why would they ever do this?

Here's one hypothetical out of many!
Sometimes countries get into really weird debt spirals or have bizarre inflation issues, like the hyperinflation in Zimbabwe. You never know if or when that stuff will happen, but Bitcoin could be surprisingly useful if it does

OJ MIST 2 THE DICK
Sep 10, 2008

Anytime I need to see your face I just close my eyes
And I am taken to a place
Where your crystal minds and magenta feelings
Take up shelter in the base of my spine
Sweet like a chica cherry cola

-Cheap Trick



Nap Ghost

Uranium 235 posted:

Not saying that chart is wrong, but it doesn't match this chart:



from https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/

yours is tracking currency traded in USD denominated markets, not markets for Chinese yuan.


Blade Runner
Aug 14, 2015



I've gone into this previously, about how it's essentially gambling because of the lack of anything meriting any valuation whatsoever. Bitcoins are basically chips to a non-existent casino. The reason that large financial institutions can do this is myriad: Firstly, they have the money not only to lose, but to individually manipulate the markets to allow a greater outcome for themselves and secondly because they have experienced financial advisors making their decisions. I would not typically advise any individual with no experience in stocks or finance to personally invest in the stock market, either. That said, no, I do not believe it is investment for a large firm to put their money in Bitcoin; it's still gambling, but gambling they can easily afford to do in a market that currently has no regulations(This will not last if any bank seriously investigates the use of Bitcoin, which will likely result in a massive crash because Bitcoin is primarily inferior to Securities, if regulated according to the laws that would likely be used.) My use of the term 'invest' there was primarily because it looked better composition-wise. If you take umbrage with it on word choice alone, I apologize.

Bitcoin would not be useful in that scenario for many reasons, one of the bigger and more obvious ones being that it requires electronics and people in a debt spiraling African country probably aren't going to have the latest iPhone. Even past that, however, I severely doubt most governments would be willing to give up control of their currency to an external system, even if facing hyperinflation, and Bitcoin would quickly go back to being devalued if a stronger government took force and re-instated a trustworthy currency.

Blade Runner fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Oct 5, 2017

COMRADES
Apr 3, 2017

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Ham Sandwiches posted:

Here's one hypothetical out of many!
Sometimes countries get into really weird debt spirals or have bizarre inflation issues, like the hyperinflation in Zimbabwe. You never know if or when that stuff will happen, but Bitcoin could be surprisingly useful if it does

How would BTC be useful in that situation though?

Like say I'm the president of Fuckistan and you're my economic advisor. We're experiencing hyperinflation and other things that we are blaming the US government for (the pigs). I call you in, and say 'alright you emailed me about these Bitcoin things. Explain what we need to do and why.'

(I know the basic concept of the block chain so you can skip that and just go directly to how this helps us.)

EorayMel
May 29, 2015

You got the fluffy kitty kitty!


Ham Sandwiches posted:

Here's one hypothetical out of many!
Sometimes countries get into really weird debt spirals or have bizarre inflation issues, like the hyperinflation in Zimbabwe. You never know if or when that stuff will happen, but Bitcoin could be surprisingly useful if it does

What's your opinion on bitcoin in Venezuela?

Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000



COMRADES posted:

How would BTC be useful in that situation though?

Like say I'm the president of Fuckistan and you're my economic advisor. We're experiencing hyperinflation and other things that we are blaming the US government for (the pigs). I call you in, and say 'alright you emailed me about these Bitcoin things. Explain what we need to do and why.'

The scenario you are making up is loving bizarre. What i'm talking about is:

The citizens of Fuckistan have Fuckdollars which suddenly become useless when Fuckistan goes to war with the united states.

The citizens of Fuckistan may not be able to use Fuckdollars in any way but they can try using any Bitcoins they have for their transactions.

The citizens of the neighboring countries may say "We don't want your worthless fuckdollars because they'll be gone when Fuckistan is gone but we'll accept Bitcoins for bread since we can convert those back into our currency"

and that would generally cause the price to go up as more people started using it to do this

Chitin
Apr 29, 2007

It is no sign of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

Ham Sandwiches posted:

Things bitcoins are like:
Tulips
Ponzi Schemes
Gambling in las Vegas

Things bitcoins are NOT like:
sound financial instruments
stocks - those have INHERENT VALUE
currency

Repeat this at $700

And then at $1500

And then at $2500

and then at $4k

And then go "umm just because the numbers, hedge funds, countries, retailers, and people using this keep going up doesn't mean I'm wrong"

and you have the formula the SA forums have enjoyed the past few years. It's loving great.

Your defense against my making fun of you is literally the argument I was making fun of you for making. You didn't even state it in a different way.

Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000



Chitin posted:

Your defense against my making fun of you is literally the argument I was making fun of you for making. You didn't even state it in a different way.

Indeed, it won't be wrong no matter what the price goes up to or how widely it gets accepted, you'll never be wrong. I just wanted to explain that this brilliant position of yours is absolutely representative of the forum consensus over the past few years.

COMRADES
Apr 3, 2017

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Ham Sandwiches posted:

The scenario you are making up is loving bizarre. What i'm talking about is:

I mean it's your scenario man you mentioned the hyperinflation and whatnot.

Ham Sandwiches posted:

The citizens of Fuckistan have Fuckdollars which suddenly become useless when Fuckistan goes to war with the united states.

The citizens of Fuckistan may not be able to use Fuckdollars in any way but they can try using any Bitcoins they have for their transactions.

The citizens of the neighboring countries may say "We don't want your worthless fuckdollars because they'll be gone when Fuckistan is gone but we'll accept Bitcoins for bread since we can convert those back into our currency"

and that would generally cause the price to go up as more people started using it to do this

Well so my question here then is why would they want BTC... which they have to somehow digitally convert (let's say it is 50 years from now and that's not an issue fine)... instead of just USD?

Blade Runner
Aug 14, 2015



Ham Sandwiches posted:

The scenario you are making up is loving bizarre. What i'm talking about is:

The citizens of Fuckistan have Fuckdollars which suddenly become useless when Fuckistan goes to war with the united states.

The citizens of Fuckistan may not be able to use Fuckdollars in any way but they can try using any Bitcoins they have for their transactions.

The citizens of the neighboring countries may say "We don't want your worthless fuckdollars because they'll be gone when Fuckistan is gone but we'll accept Bitcoins for bread since we can convert those back into our currency"

and that would generally cause the price to go up as more people started using it to do this

The essential issue with this is, as I said, Bitcoin does not have anything that merits valuation. In a sense, all monetary goods are stocks, pieces of paper or electronic numbers which represent a certain amount of stake in a company; this also goes for currency, because you are investing in that country's wealth. There is no institution backing Bitcoin, which makes it inherently worthless by its very nature. You are investing in the stock of a company that does not exist.

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EorayMel
May 29, 2015

You got the fluffy kitty kitty!


Ham Sandwiches posted:

The scenario you are making up is loving bizarre. What i'm talking about is:

The citizens of Fuckistan have Fuckdollars which suddenly become useless when Fuckistan goes to war with the united states.

The citizens of Fuckistan may not be able to use Fuckdollars in any way but they can try using any Bitcoins they have for their transactions.

The citizens of the neighboring countries may say "We don't want your worthless fuckdollars because they'll be gone when Fuckistan is gone but we'll accept Bitcoins for bread since we can convert those back into our currency"

and that would generally cause the price to go up as more people started using it to do this

Fucktoken is actually a real thing, and it's a pretty good introduction to something everybody is beginning to frown upon called Initial Coin Offerings(ICO)

http://www.fucktoken.io/

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