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Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011

Gaze into the 8-ball.


enraged_camel posted:

Constantly having to repair stuff doesn't sound fun. It's one of the main reasons I stopped playing RimWorld.

There's other ways around it if you're careful. Making machinery out of gold increases its breakdown limit by 50, so you can use that to pump the cooler pools. And once you've got enough plastic to relocate critters, you can bring the slicksters down there up to your base - they turn carbon dioxide into crude oil, though pretty slowly.

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Tristesse
Feb 23, 2006

Chasing the dream.


I really like the new rooms feature of the oil update... It's giving me a reason to be super OCD about my base layout and try to create the "perfect" room. So far, my "tryhard" medbay areas have 2 medical beds, a pharma chamber, lavatory, mess table, fridge, and a sink at the door. I put a decent amount of arts all around and a flower pot and it's a stress free disease land.

Does anyone know if the pharma chamber helps dupes regen life? I've assigned hurt dupes to mine before and they went in and hung out until they were starving but their HP didn't recover at all. Is it disease exclusive? If so, when I had 2 dupes with slimelung they both refused to get in the pharma chamber. It had power so I just dunno.

Gantolandon
Aug 19, 2012



I like how they balanced diseases. Previous updates were a constant orgy of poo poo and vomit nearly as soon as the first outhouse was build. Now I had completely no problems with diseases, until I got cocky and tried to recycle the water from the lavatory without sterilizing it. The same water as the musher used. It went bad for my colony very quickly.

The ultimate fate of my colony, however, was mass suffocation - it turned out that a single algae recycler was not enough to feed my terrariums. When the easily accessible algae depleted, my dupes started to deplete oxygen very quickly and it took only several cycles until most of the base was uninhabitable. I don't like that terrariums constantly need to be fed with algae, light and carbon dioxide should be enough. This would probably make the game too easy, though.

President Ark
May 16, 2010



Gantolandon posted:


The ultimate fate of my colony, however, was mass suffocation - it turned out that a single algae recycler was not enough to feed my terrariums. When the easily accessible algae depleted, my dupes started to deplete oxygen very quickly and it took only several cycles until most of the base was uninhabitable. I don't like that terrariums constantly need to be fed with algae, light and carbon dioxide should be enough. This would probably make the game too easy, though.

you should really be moving to electrolysis as a goal for the midgame; the more processes in your base you have in the hands of low/no-maintenance machines, the better - i.e. having natural gas instead of manual generators means you've freed up ~3 dupes from running on treadmills to do other poo poo, having electrolysis instead of algae means you're not having dupes running all over your base feeding them (and not scrounging for more algae or producing it*), etc.

finding a steam geyser to feed an electrolyzer can also help with food poisoning; if you dump the water that comes out of them into your reservoir the increased heat (it'll be about 30 degrees higher than the water around your spawn) will help sterilize it



*you may have noticed this, but the algae distiller introduces slimelung into your base from the waste water it produces

President Ark fucked around with this message at Oct 8, 2017 around 16:26

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010

I can eat anything.

Played most of the day, ended around cycle 137. I had a steam geyser and natural gas geyser real close by; I got to learn about Thermo Aquatuners, building a power plant, and Electrolyzers. One geyser will support three gas generators if you have a lot of batteries as backup. Build your Aquatuners underwater, and five Electrolyzers won't put out enough hydrogen to keep a generator rolling. I don't know the number that will but I was up against the wire power limit and couldn't add more to see.

Has anyone messed around with debug mode? I wouldn't mind hand building a map so I can get a better understanding of things. It takes so long to get rolling on a regular map.

Edit: Doing a bit of reading; I should've built an inverted pyramid above the Electrolyzers and only one gas pump, then put the filter outside the room. Hydrogen rises, and I crammed two pumps and two filters into that room.

Admiral Joeslop fucked around with this message at Oct 9, 2017 around 03:39

Truga
May 4, 2014


Lipstick Apathy



This is what I use for oxygen. It's 100% self contained, you jumpstart it with a manual generator or somesuch for a minute, then it runs itself. The hydrogen atmo switch is set at above 500g, the oxygen one at above 1200g. Hydrogen gets burned in the generator, oxygen gets piped to other places in my base to even out the pressure a bit so the electrolyzers don't keep hitting the pressure ceiling while the rest of the base keeps at <500g. One of these happily supplies oxygen to 8-10 dupes forever, and it's easily duplicated when you want more.

The airlock over there is so you can jumpstart the thing without breaking your generator needlessly, since it doesn't use filters. First set the top atmo switch to never turn on (i.e. below 0g), and open the door. After about a minute, all the oxygen that was there when you built the thing will get pushed out by hydrogen, since hydrogen stacks up on top left. Close the door, set the switch to above 500g, deconstruct the manual generator/unhook it from your grid, have perpetual oxygen.

Also, debug mode isn't bad, but it's kinda unwieldy for me. I guess it's just a problem of getting used to how it works and where things are, but for that amount of time spent, I prefer to just play the game instead.

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010

I can eat anything.

I need more pictures of bases. Even when I decide to stay small until I have research done, my base tends to balloon out of control and then I can't do things efficiently without tearing it all down.

Also, what would mid game be considered?

Bhodi
Dec 9, 2007

Oh, it's just a cat.


Pillbug

I played most of the day yesterday as well. I still (and always?) have had a HUGE problem with heat and there were only 6 wheezewarts on the whole map. I just can't get rid of all the excess heat generated. Everything creates heat and almost nothing removes it. Bristle Blossoms are insanely sensitive to heat. I know you can make an efficient wheezewort chamber by filling it with hydrogen (2.4 times better than just having it in an oxygenated room) and now with the new aquatuners/regulators to play with I need to figure out the proper pathway.

After a bit of research, I found all the bathroom objects output room temperature polluted water regardless of input temperature. Water distillers output 40c clean water regardless of input water temperature. With this in mind, I'm going to try to design a cold clean water / hot polluted water pool and use the polluted water as a heat exchange medium. This should kill both germs and (ab)use how the distillers work. I might be able to work a steam distiller thing in there somehow as well, so I need to experiment with designs.

Filling your colony with decor and forcing them to eat fried mush until the end of time continues to work.

I also tried making a bunch of terrariums this time, and it ended up being a huge mistake - 6 or 7 of them drank ALL my water by cycle 80 or so. Never again! Petroleum seems neat and I made a bunch of plastic ladders (they're nice) but the suits aren't that great due to adding a huge delay and move penalty. It also doesn't pair well with the job system; dupes will happily carry/mine something and then run all the way back to base to do something else before running back. The better beds increasing stamina is pointless at the moment because stamina is a pretty unused stat; dupes get to 100% midway through the night regardless of beds and once there they don't wake early or anything.

They really need to address how finicky pipes are, in fact I'm filing a bug report on this because the first image works great but the second one blocks the later rooms even if there's 'room' in the pipe to combine the liquid.



Also, as cool as that oxygen setup above looks, I don't mean to upstage you but the one I made works just as well and is substantially more compact. It doesn't run 100% of the time, but it also doesn't waste electricity pumping when not needed. Just enable the switches at above 900-1.1k and you're off!





E: also with the new high-output vents, you can get pressure up to 20kg. This should make heat exchange rooms really efficient, at least in theory. Shame wheezeworts take in 1kg/sec and lower temp by 5 degrees, so they're unaffected by anything but gas type (so, use hydrogen).

Bhodi fucked around with this message at Oct 9, 2017 around 13:48

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010

I can eat anything.

I wouldn't call that one a bug; you're trying to run a pipe into the output. You could argue that it's finicky but it's pretty clear why it doesn't work.

What sort of waste would there be going: steam geyser to bathroom utilities, to water distiller, to reservoir? How many distillers would you need? Might need Carbon Scrubbers contributing as well, I think they produce the most polluted water.

Truga
May 4, 2014


Lipstick Apathy

Bhodi posted:

Also, as cool as that oxygen setup above looks, I don't mean to upstage you but the one I made works just as well and is substantially more compact. It doesn't run 100% of the time, but it also doesn't waste electricity pumping when not needed. Just enable the switches at above 900-1.1k and you're off!

Yeah that's how I used to run them, but then I figured out I can save 120W by not running a filter, and having an extra pump isn't actually extra power spent, since pumps only run when there's enough pressure. Also much of the oxygen I make seeps from mine naturally, as opposed to being pumped, which also saves some power. Also my electrolisers don't run at 100% because there's enough space between pumps and electrolysers that bigger pressure differences can be a thing, but I don't really care too much, it's something like 95% and that's good enough for me.

Not sure I can get my version any more compact than that though, since oxygen pumps pretty much have to be below the thing to work right, but space isn't exactly the hardest thing to come by, IMO.

Admiral Joeslop posted:

I wouldn't call that one a bug; you're trying to run a pipe into the output. You could argue that it's finicky but it's pretty clear why it doesn't work.

It definitely feels like a bug, you have 1kg of polluted water in the pipe, so adding another 1kg to its 10kg capacity shouldn't be a problem, but somehow it is for toilets/showers.

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010

I can eat anything.

Has anyone messed around with doors to keep dupes locked in a specific section of the map, so that only they do a particular task? Maybe have a common dining room where food is kept, with the doors locked against certain dupes leaving through them; might cut down on the problem of someone running all the way across the map, mining out a single space, then running back to do something else.

Overwined
Sep 22, 2008

Wine can of their wits the wise beguile,
Make the sage frolic, and the serious smile.


Admiral Joeslop posted:

Has anyone messed around with doors to keep dupes locked in a specific section of the map, so that only they do a particular task? Maybe have a common dining room where food is kept, with the doors locked against certain dupes leaving through them; might cut down on the problem of someone running all the way across the map, mining out a single space, then running back to do something else.

Priorities are your friend. I think if you bump up the priority on the fridge that dupes will sooner bring food to it than other tasks. At least I'm pretty sure that's how it works with containers, so it's likely to be the same with fridges and the like. This also works with coal generators when you want them to be filled before other tasks.

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010

I can eat anything.

I mean keeping them in certain sections of the map to only do one job like farming or mining. Priority won't change what an individual dupe does in order, and assigning certain tasks might not help if there is a similar job across the map.

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


Bhodi posted:

I played most of the day yesterday as well. I still (and always?) have had a HUGE problem with heat and there were only 6 wheezewarts on the whole map. I just can't get rid of all the excess heat generated. Everything creates heat and almost nothing removes it. Bristle Blossoms are insanely sensitive to heat. I know you can make an efficient wheezewort chamber by filling it with hydrogen (2.4 times better than just having it in an oxygenated room) and now with the new aquatuners/regulators to play with I need to figure out the proper pathway.

Aquatuners/regulators are definitely the easiest method of dealing with heat. They do require a lot of power though. Especially aquatuners.

Wheezeworts are more useful for localized cooling. I usually have a few inside my bristle blossom farm to keep it cool enough. It is a bit tricky though because sometimes they cool it a bit too much.

quote:

After a bit of research, I found all the bathroom objects output room temperature polluted water regardless of input temperature. Water distillers output 40c clean water regardless of input water temperature. With this in mind, I'm going to try to design a cold clean water / hot polluted water pool and use the polluted water as a heat exchange medium. This should kill both germs and (ab)use how the distillers work. I might be able to work a steam distiller thing in there somehow as well, so I need to experiment with designs.

Bathroom objects outputting room temperature water is almost definitely a bug. I wouldn't rely on it in your base design.

quote:

I also tried making a bunch of terrariums this time, and it ended up being a huge mistake - 6 or 7 of them drank ALL my water by cycle 80 or so. Never again!

Terrariums are OK but whether you should use them depends on your starting location.

If you start with lots of water around you (e.g. four or more large pockets), you can reliably use them until cycle 100 or so. As you noted, they use a lot of water, but relatively small amounts of algae.

On the other hand, if you start with lots of algae but not much water, use an algae deoxydizer. It uses lots of algae but no water, and it generates a lot more oxygen so it's much lower maintenance since you only need one. You'll eventually need a carbon skimmer to get rid of the accumulated CO2 however.

I generally start with a deoxydizer. Once my base is mostly light blue on the oxygen overlay, I switch to 3-4 terrariums, and occasionally supplement them by turning on the deoxydizer.

But yeah, both of these are very inefficient methods of oxygen generation. You should switch to electrolyzers whenever you can. They have 100% efficiency: for every 1g of water, they output 112g of hydrogen and 888g of oxygen. And even though they use 120W of power, the hydrogen they output can be used to generate over 800W of power (even taking into account the rest of the infrastructure (pumps, filters, etc.) you still come out on top).

The hardest thing about electrolyzers is pressure management. I have yet to reach perfect equilibrium with them. Each dupe consumes 100g of oxygen. They output 2g of CO2, but if you skim that using carbon skimmers, that means you need ~9 dupes per electrolyzer. Fewer dupes means the electrolyzer has less than full uptime. Obviously this math doesn't take into account other gases coming into your base, such as natural gas.

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Bhodi
Dec 9, 2007

Oh, it's just a cat.


Pillbug

I ran a game up to cycle 50 or so, finished off the tech tree, explored to find the cold biome (there only appears to be one and it's across the top of the map now) have a little starting water left. I kept my population at a reasonable 8 dupes and it seems like a single terrarium can handle all my co2 output in-base when I'm also digging downwards to make a mushroom farm + food storage area that fills up with co2. CO2 pools down where i want it to but the single terrarium eats any co2 that threatens to spill upwards into my main lower levels. It worked so well I'm going to just do that in the future.

I'm running out of algae to feed my 2 deoxidizers but there's a slime biome just next door that I'm sculpting for the polluted water pool anyway. My dupes are completely happy without showers or running water of any kind, and power was just from two manual generators so it was easy to keep the colony running without expending too many resources or generating too much eat. It's the electrolyser+hydrogen setup that ended up overheating my base and wilting my blossoms last time. I found the cold biome just in time to dump a few wheezeworts next to the blossoms so now I have a fairly stable setup I can reload from when I inevitably screw it all up.

Bhodi fucked around with this message at Oct 11, 2017 around 17:40

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