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Q8ee
May 31, 2013

Michael Scott posted:

Wayne Gretzky posted:

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.


Silly Ren, he deserved it. I've had people build themselves out of the base and I don't notice until it says one of my dupes is suffocating, and the little fucker is just sitting there blowing out his cheeks and expecting me to save him. But alas, I am a cruel and merciless god.

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Elizabethan Error
May 18, 2006



I've been seeing weirder trapped dupes recently. last night one got stuck in a block below a pool that was 5-6 blocks up with no possible way he could have got there.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



I just started this today and am still getting the hang of it - my first base lasted about 25 cycles but the last 5 of those were basically running on fumes. My second attempt went a lot better - I actually managed to finish the tech tree and start building some of the more advanced stuff, although I overreached and started running into power consumption problems, and was relying way too much on algae-based oxygen so when I started running out of that things went south quickly.

I have a few questions:

-I seem to have a really hard time reliably generating food. I can last for a while on the basic "turn dirt and water into food" and lice loafs, but all the more advanced cooker recipes seem to cost too many calories to be worthwhile given that I'm barely breaking even as-is. Any good rules of thumb for how many farms I should have per-person in the colony?
-Chlorine currently has no use, right? It's basically just something to avoid?
-Are there any resources that are entirely renewable or should I always be digging for more? I know there are vents for natural gas and steam, which would provide infinite amounts of those, but anything beyond that?

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


You can use Mush Bars virtually forever. Very occasionally they cause diarrhea but it hasn't been a problem for me. I'm on cycle 80.

Chlorine is currently not used for anything.

I don't think there are any resources that are entirely renewable aside from the ones that have geysers. But those should be enough to keep a colony running practically forever.

Q8ee
May 31, 2013

Michael Scott posted:

Wayne Gretzky posted:

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.


I never used mush bars cause it says they can get sick, but if the extent of their illness is diarrhea, I'm going to start force-feeding mush bars from now on.

Has anything been done to make algae more easily cultivatable? The version before EA came out, it was an absolute bitch to cultivate, and you'd eventually dry up all your algae.

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


I didn't realize you could cultivate algae. My main source of it is slime.

Q8ee
May 31, 2013

Michael Scott posted:

Wayne Gretzky posted:

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.


enraged_camel posted:

I didn't realize you could cultivate algae. My main source of it is slime.

I meant cultivate by using those condenser machines that accept toxic ground sludge and output algae.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Loopoo posted:

I meant cultivate by using those condenser machines that accept toxic ground sludge and output algae.

I think it's still basically the same (I don't know what has been changed since previous versions since I just started playing, but this was the only method I saw). There's a creature that poops slime but they produce way too little to be a reliable source. Maybe at some point they'll add capturing/breeding of various creatures which would make that more viable.

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


The Cheshire Cat posted:

I think it's still basically the same (I don't know what has been changed since previous versions since I just started playing, but this was the only method I saw). There's a creature that poops slime but they produce way too little to be a reliable source. Maybe at some point they'll add capturing/breeding of various creatures which would make that more viable.

I think how much slime they poop depends on the concentration of polluted oxygen.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



enraged_camel posted:

I think how much slime they poop depends on the concentration of polluted oxygen.

Yeah but even in a big pocket of pure polluted oxygen they still don't really produce enough to keep up with the amount you'd need to keep a slime -> algae -> oxygen chain going indefinitely.

I feel like the intention behind algae is that it's meant to be an early-game crutch - you get a lot of it around your starting area, and the stuff that uses it tends to be easy to set up and has no byproducts that need to be dealt with. It's basically meant to carry you until you've unlocked the tech to build more complex setups with air scrubbers and electrolyzers.

*edit* Do polluted/regular oxygen have the same density? I haven't noticed one rising above the other.

The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at May 23, 2017 around 17:30

Q8ee
May 31, 2013

Michael Scott posted:

Wayne Gretzky posted:

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.


that's a good question. I could swear that polluted oxygen tends to collect at the bottom, but then again I've seen it float around mingled with normal o2

Elizabethan Error
May 18, 2006



polluted oxygen will collect above oxygen if there's no air currents causing it to wander around and mingle.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



More questions, after my 3rd attempt at a colony went pretty well (75 cycles and they're starting to spiral now, mainly because I ran out of coal to run my generators. It might still be salvageable but I feel like starting a new one with what I've learned anyway).

-Are transformers one-way? I came up with a nice setup where I keep my generators and heavy cables all running outside the base, then I use transformers on each floor to run small wires in through the walls to prevent overloading. However, I'd also like to set up some hamster wheels inside the oxygenated area just in case I need to generate emergency power; will they feed their generated energy back out through the transformers and out to the other floors?

-Are heavy cables supposed to be able to run through airlocks? I've found that if I build the cable first, then place an airlock on top of it after it's been constructed, the game is fine with that. But if I try to queue up both to be built at once, it'll tell me the location is invalid for the cable, and if I try to queue a cable over an already constructed airlock, it just doesn't let me place it. I assume some part of all that is a bug but I'm not sure which.m

-Is there a way to speed up melting ice? I had some mined ice sitting in a storage container that was heated up to 50 degrees (Celsius) by the surrounding water, and it was heating up, but VERY slowly. Admittedly there was 14,000 kilograms of it in there (the masses in this game are so weird), but still, the temperature barely moved over like a dozen cycles.

Elizabethan Error
May 18, 2006



The Cheshire Cat posted:

More questions, after my 3rd attempt at a colony went pretty well (75 cycles and they're starting to spiral now, mainly because I ran out of coal to run my generators. It might still be salvageable but I feel like starting a new one with what I've learned anyway).

-Are transformers one-way? I came up with a nice setup where I keep my generators and heavy cables all running outside the base, then I use transformers on each floor to run small wires in through the walls to prevent overloading. However, I'd also like to set up some hamster wheels inside the oxygenated area just in case I need to generate emergency power; will they feed their generated energy back out through the transformers and out to the other floors?

-Are heavy cables supposed to be able to run through airlocks? I've found that if I build the cable first, then place an airlock on top of it after it's been constructed, the game is fine with that. But if I try to queue up both to be built at once, it'll tell me the location is invalid for the cable, and if I try to queue a cable over an already constructed airlock, it just doesn't let me place it. I assume some part of all that is a bug but I'm not sure which.m

-Is there a way to speed up melting ice? I had some mined ice sitting in a storage container that was heated up to 50 degrees (Celsius) by the surrounding water, and it was heating up, but VERY slowly. Admittedly there was 14,000 kilograms of it in there (the masses in this game are so weird), but still, the temperature barely moved over like a dozen cycles.
the thing with the heavy cables is probably an oversight, and the ice isn't melting because there's so much of it that whatever melts instantly gets refrozen. destroy the container if you want it to go faster?

Sarkazm
Sep 26, 2008

Not your father's Sarkazmobile.


Just picked this up a couple days ago. Enjoying it so far, but its mostly been a process of build a bit, learn something new, start over to apply new knowledge. Build a bit, learn something new, start over to apply new knowledge. rinse. Repeat. Will be following to learn more and maybe at some point contribute something beyond my usual gibberish.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Elizabethan Error posted:

the thing with the heavy cables is probably an oversight, and the ice isn't melting because there's so much of it that whatever melts instantly gets refrozen. destroy the container if you want it to go faster?

I tried that - just dumping it in the 50 degree water directly didn't speed it up at all.

The thing is that it was JUST ice that was causing problems. If I put snow in the same container it melted almost instantly. I know snow melts faster than ice but it was a major contrast. Is ice some kind of weird special case where it's not just "water, but cold", but actually generates coldness somehow?

Gammymajams
Jan 30, 2016


Does anyone else find their CO2 scrubbers operate at a tiny fraction of the output it suggests on the building tooltip? Mines is operational but only cleans a tiny fraction of the expected CO2 out of the air, despite my clones holding their breath when they're around it. Anyone aware of a reason for this?

Elizabethan Error
May 18, 2006



The Cheshire Cat posted:

I tried that - just dumping it in the 50 degree water directly didn't speed it up at all.

The thing is that it was JUST ice that was causing problems. If I put snow in the same container it melted almost instantly. I know snow melts faster than ice but it was a major contrast. Is ice some kind of weird special case where it's not just "water, but cold", but actually generates coldness somehow?
I've seen similar things happen(but not on your scale) with ice mysteriously gyrating up and down as it cycles between melted water and ice ball. from reading the Klei forums, it looks like convection currents aren't in game yet, so your ice pile is probably defeating the heated water by cooling the water around it.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Gammymajams posted:

Does anyone else find their CO2 scrubbers operate at a tiny fraction of the output it suggests on the building tooltip? Mines is operational but only cleans a tiny fraction of the expected CO2 out of the air, despite my clones holding their breath when they're around it. Anyone aware of a reason for this?

I think they can only clean one specific tile, so they can only suck in whatever CO2 is in that tile and unless the overall air pressure is really high, there won't be enough there to have the scrubber operating at max capacity.

Also bear in mind that scrubbers only remove CO2 from the air. They do not produce oxygen. So your clones will be holding their breath because once it removes that CO2, it's just going to leave a vacuum.

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

Dinosaur Gum

One big issue I see right now is that gases behave more like porridge than, well, gases. One gas pump will completely vacuum out its immediate area, but nothing seemingly diffuses in to replace it.

It kind of made my idea to just let the hydrogen from the electrolyzers free-float up to a dedicated chamber, where it would be collected and turned into power not work for more than a few seconds at a time.

Q8ee
May 31, 2013

Michael Scott posted:

Wayne Gretzky posted:

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.


Yeah that's a major issue, poo poo doesn't work for very long because it creates a vacuum and keeps stopping and starting. I think it's a design choice because if the gases diffused properly, people could get hosed up really quick if you accidentally breach a chlorine pocket. I spent two hours making a really convoluted hydrogen power system, only for it to work for a glorious second before stopping again.

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

Dinosaur Gum

Well hopefully we will see some sort of a fix for this going forward.

One thing I hope they don't change is binge eating. I mean, it's hard to be mad when one of your duplicants powers down 45,000 calories of mush bars, then fills up the microbe musher, makes more and proceeds to eat them too.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



The main issue with the gas/liquid behaviour is the fact that substances can't mix at all. Only one gas/liquid can occupy a tile regardless of how much of it there is, so you can end up with these weird low pressure bubbles floating around because there's no other gases of the same type for them to join up with, but even a single gram is enough to prevent anything else from occupying the tile. This can happen a lot with CO2 because when dupes exhale they release a very small amount, and while it will collect down at the bottom of your base eventually, it might take a while to get there depending on how you have it all set up.

Elizabethan Error
May 18, 2006



Elizabethan Error posted:

I've been seeing weirder trapped dupes recently. last night one got stuck in a block below a pool that was 5-6 blocks up with no possible way he could have got there.
wtfFrankie.png

Tree Bucket
Apr 1, 2016



Yes, I would definitely count a thousand tonnes of rock and soil as "chilly surroundings."

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


Tree Bucket posted:

Yes, I would definitely count a thousand tonnes of rock and soil as "chilly surroundings."

Well, it's an asteroid.

GenericOverusedName
Nov 24, 2009


I wonder if there's a memory leak or something like that going on. I've occasionally gotten situations like that, but only after a few hours of gameplay. Or I'm seeing a pattern in static and luck, who knows.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011

Gaze into the 8-ball.


Picked up this game today. I got to cycle 40 with my first colony before deciding I wasn't going to come back from the massive stress spiral I was in. Everyone was spending half their time crying or vomiting while the power generators were failing from lack of resources and the food ran out. Building an elaborate ventilation system with a series of filters was great, but I didn't seal the base with airlocks, so all the oxygen floated up uselessly into some ice caves while my colonists kept getting up in the middle of the night to find a pocket of oxygen to breathe.

Lessons learned for my next base! Seal in your air, and don't let the coal run out.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



So after failing my first few colonies I've got the hang of this now. I'm currently on cycle 200ish of a pretty much stable colony, mostly trying to get temperature stuff to work to set up a renewable farm. I don't think temperature quite works right yet; the lack of convection currents means that it takes AGES for temperatures to move around, leading to bizarre scenarios where a room can be freezing on one side and warm on the other and stay like that for dozens of cycles, and trying to pump air around manually to cool a room doesn't really seem to work either. There's also a weird bug where airlocks next to a vacuum sometimes just start dropping in temperature very quickly for no reason. Although if you want to cool a room it does work a hell of a lot faster than trying to do it "properly".

I've also been playing around with air circulation, mostly just because I like the idea of it rather than any real need to keep my colony clear of gasses. I might have gone a bit overboard with it, though:





The central part (left in the first screenshot) is my main base proper, which is where all the beds and kitchen stuff are and is all sealed off by little 2x2 airlock rooms. I had gas pumps in them originally to make them actually work like proper airlocks but that's how I discovered the temperature bug so I took them out since the heat loss was quickly reducing my base to freezing temperatures (the doors would just devour the heat, then heat from adjacent tiles would spread into the doors very fast because of the huge temperature difference, and so on).

The bit on the right is my big filter setup, where basically all the gas pumped out anywhere gets sent and separated into separate rooms and handled depending on what it is; CO2 gets scrubbed, polluted oxygen has air fresheners, chlorine just kind of sits there, and hydrogen gets piped into generators once it's built up enough to give more than a few seconds of charge (only one of those three hydrogen generators is actually enabled - I underestimated how quickly they eat the stuff up).

On the left in the second shot is my farm which has a big zig-zag vent pattern which is filled with cold air from thermo regulators to try to cool down the room more effectively. You can't see it in this screenshot but it's got thermostats that will turn themselves off once it drops below 19 (I'm trying to grow mealwood). Honestly the wiring setups I've got is just as crazy as the vents - I've tried to automate as much as possible in my base but since you can't connect stuff remotely very easily it means a lot of wires running wayyyy off one place to a sensor then wayyyy back to the thing it's actually supposed to be controlling. There's a few spots where I just decided it wasn't worth the trouble so I just put them on manual switches.

The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at May 29, 2017 around 09:07

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010

I can eat anything.

Fun Shoe

The Discord link in the OP is no longer valid. You should be able to set it to never expire.

Tree Bucket
Apr 1, 2016



It's interesting to see Cheshire Cat's population! After about a dozen utterly failed colonies, I've finally learnt that it isn't always a good idea to print new Dupes the instant they become available. Particularly if I'm halfway through sorting out an oxygen crisis....

Q8ee
May 31, 2013

Michael Scott posted:

Wayne Gretzky posted:

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.


Admiral Joeslop posted:

The Discord link in the OP is no longer valid. You should be able to set it to never expire.

I shut it down, there was me and one or two other people and it was absolutely dead. If you want to create a server for it, you're more than welcome to. I'll add it to OP as well.

Tree Bucket posted:

It's interesting to see Cheshire Cat's population! After about a dozen utterly failed colonies, I've finally learnt that it isn't always a good idea to print new Dupes the instant they become available. Particularly if I'm halfway through sorting out an oxygen crisis....

I spam dupes early-game just for manpower, then "accidents" occur that lowers my population to a more manageable level. I'll also not print a dupe afterwards if I'm at a really good point and don't need an extra man, since AFAIK it doesn't affect you negatively keeping the portal ready to spawn for ever.

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010

I can eat anything.

Fun Shoe

What should I be concentrating on in a new colony? My first two were beset by lack of oxygen, then lack of food.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Tree Bucket posted:

It's interesting to see Cheshire Cat's population! After about a dozen utterly failed colonies, I've finally learnt that it isn't always a good idea to print new Dupes the instant they become available. Particularly if I'm halfway through sorting out an oxygen crisis....

Yeah I learned that rejecting dupes after 8 or so was a good idea after a few colonies failed because either my food production couldn't keep up with the demand, or my oxygen production ended up eating through my entire algae supply (I'm up to 12 in this one just because I got it stable ages ago so I was comfortable letting in enough to put in another sleeping room). It's a lot like Banished where a sudden population influx might seem helpful in the short term but actually ends up dooming your colony because it can't sustain the new numbers.

Admiral Joeslop posted:

What should I be concentrating on in a new colony? My first two were beset by lack of oxygen, then lack of food.

Those two are pretty much it, but a few tips on keeping them manageable:

1) As mentioned above, don't just keep printing new Dupes when they come available. Find the level you're comfortable sustaining and just leave it there. It's also worth rejecting a set if none of them will be very useful for your current needs (e.g. you don't have anyone with cooking skill and none of the 3 on offer have it either).

2) For food, you are probably going to get a shitload of mealwood seeds when doing your initial digging out, so they make a good early food source. You can also just set mush bars to continuous and that will be sufficient to keep people fed.

3) For oxygen, algae deoxydizers work faster than algae terrarium, but are also much less efficient in algae consumption - you can easily burn through your entire algae supply if you are relying too much on the former. I like to use terrariums as my primary oxygen source, and then just have you deoxydizer which I keep disabled and enable if my oxygen supply starts to get too low.

4) If you follow the advice in 2 and 3, you'll probably be consuming a lot of water (both mush bars and terrariums require a lot), so securing a reliable water source is vital. Most of the water outside of the starting area will be polluted, so your early exploration should be focused on trying to find a steam vent for renewable fresh water. Then you should set up a system to pipe the water output closer to your base (You don't want your dupes having to run all the way over there to collect water - it will both take a long time and the heat from the steam will hurt them).

The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at May 30, 2017 around 03:19

New Zealand can eat me
Aug 29, 2008



The youtube video in the OP says 2016 release, when will this actually be done?

If I sound demanding, it's because this looks cool but I have burned my hand enough on the "early access space base building game" stove

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011



This game is basically what Space Base DF-9 should have been. One day I'll build a base where my dupes breathe only contaminated oxygen.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Demiurge4 posted:

This game is basically what Space Base DF-9 should have been. One day I'll build a base where my dupes breathe only contaminated oxygen.

Honestly I've found that polluted oxygen isn't really much of a big deal. None of the diseases currently in the game are particularly dangerous - some of them don't even seem to do anything at all.

Q8ee
May 31, 2013

Michael Scott posted:

Wayne Gretzky posted:

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.


New Zealand can eat me posted:

The youtube video in the OP says 2016 release, when will this actually be done?

If I sound demanding, it's because this looks cool but I have burned my hand enough on the "early access space base building game" stove

It's Klei, the people behind Don't Starve, Invisible Inc and a bunch of other sweet games. I'm certain if you back this game in EA, you won't be let down or disappointed by lovely dev practices. These guys have a history of going above and beyond and releasing solid games. Don't Starve was an EA title, wasn't it? And the final game is incredible (though it's not really my thing, the permadeath sours it for me and I hate having to restart every time because of one silly mistake I make).

Zteuer
Nov 8, 2009


I think the door cooling bug was adressed in yesterdays patch:

quote:

[Game Update] - 218235

Update Information:

  • pipe contents should no longer reset their temperature
  • loading a game with old audio drivers should no longer cause a crash
  • input bindings screen will show some feedback for when you should press a key
  • harvest bonus should now display the proper amount of points earned
  • selecting clothing should no longer cause a crash
  • liquid should now properly flow through hydroponic tiles
  • plants should now display the air pressure and temperature they use for their conditions
  • maturity tooltips distinguis between stifled and ready for harvest
  • geysers should no longer overpressurize
  • compost should now produce warmer fertilizer
  • pumps are no longer biased towards sampling gases/liquids in their bottom left corner
  • pumps should now properly report whether they are blocked
  • clicking on follow cam a second time disables the follow cam
  • last used save file can now be uploaded as part of the crash report
  • multiple doors beside each other should no longer freeze the area around them and should no longer crash
  • hydroponic tiles can now be emptied
  • fertilizer maker should now use it's internal storage even if it's input pipe is empty
  • dupes should no longer use cooking utensils to clean the toilet(this was also the cause of some of the crashes people were getting)
  • geysers should no longer emit four times more mass than indicated by the ui
  • gas/liquid permeable tiles will try and displace ore, gas and liquid when constructed
  • loading text is now localizable
  • dupes should no longer jump off the manual generator to get to a massage table only to have to go back to the manual generator because the massage table has run out of power
  • things marked for sweeping should still be marked for sweeping after a save load
  • you should now be able to build wire bridges on top of heavy watt wires
  • added even more missing Korean characters to the Korean font
  • changed the default font for localized languages to RobotoCondensed since it looks/fits better
  • batteries should no longer appear idle when connected to a transformer
  • plant status items should now tell you when you've irrigated them with the wrong liquid

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enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


I played this game for a few more hours over the weekend, and man... they really need to add more content fast. DS was not this bare-bones when it got released to early access.

As things stand, it is a fun little timekiller, but after having successfully survived past cycle 60, I don't feel any burning desire to start another game.

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