Oxygen Not Included - The result was disgusting

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Oxygen Not Included - The result was disgusting

NatasDog: Feb 9, 2009

Bold Robot posted:

I think you hit the nail on the head here. It sounds like the root of your problems is that you have 24 dupes, which is a ton, like endgame level. If you pick the right dupes and use proper prioritization, you can accomplish a ton with like 8 dupes. Eight is a good number for the early-mid game because that is the number of dupes that one electrolyzer can supply with oxygen, so you can throw together a one-electrolyzer setup without going all the way to something like a full Rodriguez. I like to put together something like this, which gets you a capable enough SPOM without needing more than a handful of refined metal.

e: the game also becomes much easier if you have a living area where you care about atmosphere and temperature control (i.e., relatively cool oxygen) that is separated from everything else by an atmo-suit dock. That way you really don't have to sweat it at all if there's a bunch of CO2 building up.

Is that half SPOM even necessary though? It seems like Oxygen Diffusers are more than capable until you can do the Full Rodriguez. Getting that up and running was the only thing I've cribbed from the internet and it was simple enough. Making makeshift radiators in the cold biomes is kind of fun to boot. Then I ran into the Anti-Entropy thing and thought all my heat problems had been solved. Turns out there's a lot more heat in the world than even a big pool of water sitting in an insulated room with it can handle. Now that I feel like I figured out all the things that can go wrong I think I'll start looking into some automation setups because that poo poo can be daunting.

That said, I guess this is as good a post as any for the random questions that I do have:
Is there any point to doing anything with polluted dirt other than making a sealed off room somewhere and parking it there with a deodorizer outside? It seems like dirt's one of those things that I always have in abundance, so composting it seems like a waste of dupe effort. Is there some automation device that will flip the compost for me, or does that have to be done manually?

Also, is getting germs in your water a big deal at all? I take every effort to keep it out, but even with tons of slimelung germs in there it doesn't seem to matter. In fact, germs in general seems like one of those ancillary problems that are so easy to solve that it's almost an unnecessary game feature. Temperature management, resource scarcity (depending on the resource), and proper ventilation/gas capturing/storage seem like the biggest issues that need to be contended with. Granted, I'm admittedly barely a mid-game scrub here, and after unlocking all the tech I was able to, it's obvious that I have a lot to learn still.

Tubes. Are they worth it? Any use cases that can be described to help me get them working in a way that makes sense? I started down that road in my last game, got frustrated, and said gently caress it. Ladders and fireman's poles for everyone!

I'm sure there's more, but that'll do for now. TIA for any answers.

# ? Jan 12, 2021 23:13

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# ? Apr 23, 2024 14:13

NatasDog: Feb 9, 2009

seaborgium posted:

I think you may be misunderstanding the refined metal he's talking about. For whatever reason, lead counts as a refined metal that can be used the same as any other without any work beyond digging it out. It lowers the overheat temperature, so you don't want to use it on anything with an overheat temp like batteries or sweepers, but hardly anything in the automation pane has an overheat temp. You can automate a lot of your base with even one tile of lead dug out because it'll give you 1000kg. It's not that useful in space, but you can easily rewire and automate your entire base with just a relatively little bit of dug out lead.

Occasionally you'll get some biome overlap, and if you have some lead above the oil biome it'll help you get a lot of stuff done way easier than you would otherwise.

No I got that. I had a good bit of lead. I was talking about refining the crude for use in other arenas. Every time I went to tackle that bit I got bogged down in some other thing going wrong in one of the systems I'd already set up.

# ? Jan 12, 2021 23:16

Dragonrah: Aug 22, 2003; J.C. Bearington, III

Slime lung only affects your dupes if they breathe it.

# ? Jan 12, 2021 23:16

Bold Robot: Jan 6, 2009; Be brave.

NatasDog posted:

Is that half SPOM even necessary though? It seems like Oxygen Diffusers are more than capable until you can do the Full Rodriguez. Getting that up and running was the only thing I've cribbed from the internet and it was simple enough. Making makeshift radiators in the cold biomes is kind of fun to boot. Then I ran into the Anti-Entropy thing and thought all my heat problems had been solved. Turns out there's a lot more heat in the world than even a big pool of water sitting in an insulated room with it can handle. Now that I feel like I figured out all the things that can go wrong I think I'll start looking into some automation setups because that poo poo can be daunting.

That said, I guess this is as good a post as any for the random questions that I do have:
Is there any point to doing anything with polluted dirt other than making a sealed off room somewhere and parking it there with a deodorizer outside? It seems like dirt's one of those things that I always have in abundance, so composting it seems like a waste of dupe effort. Is there some automation device that will flip the compost for me, or does that have to be done manually?

Also, is getting germs in your water a big deal at all? I take every effort to keep it out, but even with tons of slimelung germs in there it doesn't seem to matter. In fact, germs in general seems like one of those ancillary problems that are so easy to solve that it's almost an unnecessary game feature. Temperature management, resource scarcity (depending on the resource), and proper ventilation/gas capturing/storage seem like the biggest issues that need to be contended with. Granted, I'm admittedly barely a mid-game scrub here, and after unlocking all the tech I was able to, it's obvious that I have a lot to learn still.

Tubes. Are they worth it? Any use cases that can be described to help me get them working in a way that makes sense? I started down that road in my last game, got frustrated, and said gently caress it. Ladders and fireman's poles for everyone!

I'm sure there's more, but that'll do for now. TIA for any answers.

The half SPOM is not necessary but I always get very anxious about algae supply in the early game. So, I build the half SPOM early just for my own enjoyment/mental health. But assuming a decent supply of algae, yeah, there's not a lot of reason not to go straight from diffusers to a full SPOM, assuming you feel comfortable building the latter.

In terms of your random questions:

1. Someone ITT posted the idea of a "bathroom crab," a pokeshell who sits in the room with the sieve for your bathroom loop. It will eat the polluted dirt and occasionally molt, so it's a low-effort source of lime.

2. You can pretty much ignore slimelung completely, especially if/when you set up a sealed base and go outside only in atmosuits. It's not fatal, so the only thing that happens if a dupe catches it is you get less productive time out of them. But "properly" entering an area with slimelung (setting up ore scrubbers, etc.) takes a lot of time, so it's not really any more time and it's certainly less :effort:

to just say gently caress it and accept that a few dupes are going to catch slimelung.

3. Tubes are a good way to reduce travel time once your base gets large have abundant power and plastic. Use them to let dupes rapidly travel between commonly-visited destinations. Here's my setup on my current base:

The tube network runs up and down the central shaft and has stops at (top to bottom) the hatch ranch, the industrial/power area, the suit docks, the mushroom farm, and the oil biome. Dupes prefer firepoles when descending, though.

# ? Jan 13, 2021 00:41

Shumagorath: Jun 6, 2001

Bathroom Crab also gives you some sand back, which delays the inevitable regolith cooler.

# ? Jan 13, 2021 00:59

NatasDog: Feb 9, 2009

Bold Robot posted:

The half SPOM is not necessary but I always get very anxious about algae supply in the early game. So, I build the half SPOM early just for my own enjoyment/mental health. But assuming a decent supply of algae, yeah, there's not a lot of reason not to go straight from diffusers to a full SPOM, assuming you feel comfortable building the latter.

In terms of your random questions:

1. Someone ITT posted the idea of a "bathroom crab," a pokeshell who sits in the room with the sieve for your bathroom loop. It will eat the polluted dirt and occasionally molt, so it's a low-effort source of lime.

2. You can pretty much ignore slimelung completely, especially if/when you set up a sealed base and go outside only in atmosuits. It's not fatal, so the only thing that happens if a dupe catches it is you get less productive time out of them. But "properly" entering an area with slimelung (setting up ore scrubbers, etc.) takes a lot of time, so it's not really any more time and it's certainly less to just say gently caress it and accept that a few dupes are going to catch slimelung.

3. Tubes are a good way to reduce travel time once your base gets large have abundant power and plastic. Use them to let dupes rapidly travel between commonly-visited destinations. Here's my setup on my current base:

The tube network runs up and down the central shaft and has stops at (top to bottom) the hatch ranch, the industrial/power area, the suit docks, the mushroom farm, and the oil biome. Dupes prefer firepoles when descending, though.

Jesus christ you're so much more organized than I am at this point. On to your points:

1. So in the bathroom crab instance do I just put a mob drop point at the sieve, drop him there, and then walk away?

2. So slimelung's a non-issue, but food poisoning does what exactly? I mean once you have the grill up it looks like no recipes call on water; so is that functionally unimportant as well?

3. Christ I need to step up my game. I just...can't. Like I can't even imagine getting to a point where I'm doing tube setups, let alone condensing gas enough to make it liquid or heating ores enough to make them liquid. This loving game.

I should post a shot from my last base. How do you get the big screenshots like that? I can only zoom out to like less than half that.

# ? Jan 13, 2021 02:29

ragzilla: Sep 9, 2005; don't ask me, i only work here

Shumagorath posted:

Bathroom Crab also gives you some sand back, which delays the inevitable regolith cooler.

But toss a steel pump, and a makeup water feed, into the steam box for your initial regolith cooler, and you�ve got a handy steam generator for those first couple of rocket launches.

# ? Jan 13, 2021 06:01

insta: Jan 28, 2009

Late game filtration can just be a water boiler. Chuck anything in there, pull out 5 steam turbines at 130C, autosweep out the debris dropped, tame a volcano at the same time. No sieve necessary. Centralize a cooling loop across your whole map.

# ? Jan 13, 2021 06:12

Dirk the Average: Feb 7, 2012; "This may have been a mistake."

NatasDog posted:

3. Christ I need to step up my game. I just...can't. Like I can't even imagine getting to a point where I'm doing tube setups, let alone condensing gas enough to make it liquid or heating ores enough to make them liquid. This loving game.

I should post a shot from my last base. How do you get the big screenshots like that? I can only zoom out to like less than half that.

Again, don't worry about how nice the base looks while you're still gearing up. Those metal refineries with their nifty turbine/aquatuner combo to eat the heat from the smelting process didn't spring fully formed from Zues's forehead. They usually start as a janky setup where you're trying to scrounge together some steel by using a giant water pool as coolant, taking in cooler water from one side and spitting out hot water on the other side. A similar thing happens with a temporary oil refinery that just barely holds together while you get the plastic you need, then you start making your industrial area and start refining steel faster and with a plan for dealing with the heat.

Largely, the steps to take boil down to:

1. Food security - this usually starts with mealwood and then involves a transition towards ranching (mushrooms are a good choice as well as long as slime holds out), but there are quite a few ways to go about this. Automation after hitting the oil biome and getting lead is a must, and makes the whole process take a whole lot less labor
2. Oxygen - this starts with oxygen diffusers and then goes towards electrolyzers. There's a ton of water on the map, usually, so it's a matter of making that usable and keeping an eye on your water levels. This unlocks atmo suits as well, since you now can easily pipe oxygen into the atmo suit stations. Putting dupes into atmo suits every time they leave the base isn't a bad idea and lets you ignore a lot of things around the map
3. Temperature - surrounding your base in insulated tiles is really, really helpful, and will help keep you safe from temperature creeping into your living areas and early farm areas - eventually you can install a cooling loop
4. Oil biome - I like to get in here early to get a bit of lead, but it's much faster and safer with atmo suits, and you can just use a minimal amount of refinement with rock crushers until you get atmo suits and break open the biome for real
5. Industry - start with a small refining operation as described above, transition into a proper industrial area that eats heat efficiently and can output steel, other refined metals, ceramic, plastic, etc. at scale
6. Automation - automate as many logistical operations as you can, especially your food production and industry
7. Power - I usually start with hatches and coal plants, and a smart battery is one of the early things I use so that I can ration my coal. You can go a long, long time on coal, and then transition to other power sources (natural gas, ethanol, petroleum, geothermal, etc.)

Congrats! At this point you can do whatever you want. Keep an eye on what you're consuming (sand, water, dirt, slime, etc.) and make plans to make everything sustainable (ranching is potentially huge for this, especially with pips). Tame some geysers for water, boil pwater/saltwater to save on sand, go to space, work on a megaproject, core out all of the entire rest of the map and store it in a few spots, make giant liquid/gas tanks, start working on petroleum boilers or the like, etc. etc. etc.

# ? Jan 13, 2021 08:29

Griz: May 21, 2001

NatasDog posted:

3. Christ I need to step up my game. I just...can't. Like I can't even imagine getting to a point where I'm doing tube setups, let alone condensing gas enough to make it liquid or heating ores enough to make them liquid. This loving game.

small-scale tubes are handy for things you want airtight and insulated, like this mini oil biome that I sealed off and turned into an oil/ethanol/pdirt/slickster farm. it's been like that for a while and now the entire room is at 70C with 120kg/tile of CO2.

# ? Jan 13, 2021 12:13

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

Han Nehi posted:

gold gas

vaping has gone too far

# ? Jan 13, 2021 12:47

Hello Sailor: May 3, 2006; we're all mad here

Truga posted:

vaping has gone too far

Now I want there to be a colloidal silver vape

# ? Jan 13, 2021 15:47

beyonder: Jun 23, 2007; Beyond hardcore.

Hello Sailor posted:

Now I want there to be a colloidal silver vape

Dimethylmercury vape

# ? Jan 13, 2021 18:57

Bold Robot: Jan 6, 2009; Be brave.

NatasDog posted:

1. So in the bathroom crab instance do I just put a mob drop point at the sieve, drop him there, and then walk away?

2. So slimelung's a non-issue, but food poisoning does what exactly? I mean once you have the grill up it looks like no recipes call on water; so is that functionally unimportant as well?

1. Yep. You probably want to set up some automation to retrieve the molts since the pokeshells will go into angry mode when they have laid an egg. You can do this with a sweeper on the ceiling that either loads the molt onto rails or puts it into a storage bin right next to the door, so a dupe can quickly grab it before the pokeshell attacks.

2. You can be infected with food poisoning if you eat food with the germs on it or drink liquid with the germs in it (which I think can happen with the water cooler, the espresso machine, the seltzer thing, and maybe the juicer). So, if germs get into your water supply your dupes could get infected from your water cooler or more generally from working in/around the water if they don't wash their hands before they cook or eat. It's not fatal or anything, but it's also not that hard to keep germs out of your water supply.

# ? Jan 13, 2021 20:16

Shumagorath: Jun 6, 2001

Sweepers are an integral part of Bathroom Crab because it stops you from needing to manually load sand. Might as well have them fish out molts too.

# ? Jan 13, 2021 20:58

Anthony Chuzzlewit: Oct 26, 2008; good for healthy

Interesting, the latest testing branch update adds a durability system for atmo suits. I think I'd be ok with this, but only if they rework how atmo suits work so that we can automate replacing suits or making new ones.

# ? Jan 15, 2021 03:34

Shumagorath: Jun 6, 2001

I'm guessing that has something to do with their radiation resistance, but I'll be pissed if I can't do a full-suit base now.

# ? Jan 15, 2021 14:54

Microcline: Jul 27, 2012

I would think that the first step to fixing atmo suits would be making it so dupes can't pee, eat, or shower in them.

# ? Jan 15, 2021 18:33

temple: Jul 29, 2006; I have actual skeletons in my closet

Microcline posted:

I would think that the first step to fixing atmo suits would be making it so dupes can't pee, eat, or shower in them.

2) Dupes no longer idle by docks

temple fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jan 15, 2021

# ? Jan 15, 2021 18:56

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

having an oxygen base for basic stuff like food, toilets, etc, is zero effort, you just need your single airlock door in a different place you'd put it otherwise.

you wanna have a bit of "normal" conditions for hatches and plants to survive anyway, and you need a SPOM to fuel your exosuits and beds with oxygen already, why does it matter where the door to the terrible outside resides :v:

# ? Jan 15, 2021 19:00

Shumagorath: Jun 6, 2001

In my case it was Volcanea leading to hot debris being brought in from the outside world.

# ? Jan 15, 2021 21:46

insta: Jan 28, 2009

temple posted:

2) Dupes no longer idle by docks

This would be right up there with "dupes don't entomb their head building a block"

# ? Jan 15, 2021 23:44

BrainMeats: Aug 20, 2000; We have evolved beyond the need for posting.; Soiled Meat

Well I might need it for something eventually. Get to work dupes.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 05:30

Azuth0667: Sep 20, 2011; By the word of Zoroaster, no business decision is poor when it involves Ahura Mazda.

Do want, I'm going to flood all the slime biomes with chlorine.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 17:13

BrainMeats: Aug 20, 2000; We have evolved beyond the need for posting.; Soiled Meat

I decided to just use it as free coolant for now. Cleared it out with a combination of corner deleting magma and just mopping it up with dupe power. Ain't no heat exchange in a vacuum.

And then the gas vent did what gas vents do. The chlorine may come out of the vent at 60� but it enables heat exchange. My gas pumps further up stayed cool enough to keep moving it up to space but it took a long time for that chamber to cool down enough to put a pump in. I bricked over some of the abyssalite to speed it up.

It's still sending out chlorine at a couple hundred degrees but eventually it'll cool off. It's taking heat out of the oil pit and dumping it into space but I don't expect it to ever do anything substantial. And if I ever need another tank of it I have easy access.

Ignore the steam burst. I'm fixing it. One of the oil wells misbehaved and now everyone's in time out.

Some things I noted when digging out the core:
Abyssalite exchanges heat with gas and liquid just fine. Do not believe their lies. And abyssalite bordering the magma core is 1000+ degrees. Put a layer of tile over it to lock the heat in.
Not sure if this is new with spaced out or a bug but temperature resets when you build something. Put down 900� igneous rock and build a 45� tile out of it. Brick up the core, deconstruct it and repeat to delete heat like a cheat(er).
Don't feed boiling rocks to your hatches. :v:

# ? Jan 23, 2021 22:51

Shumagorath: Jun 6, 2001

quote:

Ignore the steam burst. I'm fixing it.

Thread subtitle plz

# ? Jan 24, 2021 12:20

Less Fat Luke: May 23, 2003; Exciting Lemon

Not sure if this is good or bad but figured I'd post this:

Tencent acquires majority stake in Klei Entertainment

# ? Jan 24, 2021 16:35

Count Uvula: Dec 20, 2011; ---

Less Fat Luke posted:

Not sure if this is good or bad but figured I'd post this:

Tencent acquires majority stake in Klei Entertainment

They're extremely hands off as long as there's nothing jeopardizing their ability to sell a game in China. There's not likely to be a noticeable difference outside of some Klei employees getting a big paycheck.

# ? Jan 24, 2021 16:45

Less Fat Luke: May 23, 2003; Exciting Lemon

Good to hear, they deserve it!

# ? Jan 24, 2021 16:48

Shadow0: Jun 16, 2008; If to live in this style is to be eccentric, it must be confessed that there is something good in eccentricity.; Grimey Drawer

Shumagorath posted:

Thread subtitle plz

# ? Jan 24, 2021 19:02

BrainMeats: Aug 20, 2000; We have evolved beyond the need for posting.; Soiled Meat

BrainMeats posted:

Ignore the steam burst. I'm fixing it.

Against all odds I actually did fix it. All the miners and engineers have left the sleepy ranching rock for the main planetoid. There's some machinery in the basement that pumps out crude oil and toasted sulfur but these dupes don't worry about that too much. They worry about the slowly heating base.

Main planetoid has the volcanoes and therefore the future petro boiler.

# ? Jan 24, 2021 23:37

Shumagorath: Jun 6, 2001

Repairable atmosuits are in the latest patch but it looks like maintenance will be easy enough. A suits-only base is still feasible with the forge inside the wire, and reed fibre tends to pile up endlessly anyway.

What's left as non-renewable now? Filtration medium? Are voles even in the game anymore?

Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Oct 9, 2022

# ? Feb 2, 2021 00:40

AotC: May 16, 2010

Shumagorath posted:

What's left as non-renewable now? Filtration medium? Are voles even in the game anymore?

Unsure about voles. You can crush down salt from a geyser to sand. Also the good ol trick of sticking a pokeshell in a utility closet with a water sieve makes a tiny amount of sand last forever.

# ? Feb 2, 2021 00:45

Shumagorath: Jun 6, 2001

I've used that pattern before, but good point about desalination product. Something about having to take my eye off any one base still leaves me feeling anxious.

# ? Feb 2, 2021 00:50

insta: Jan 28, 2009

AotC posted:

Unsure about voles. You can crush down salt from a geyser to sand. Also the good ol trick of sticking a pokeshell in a utility closet with a water sieve makes a tiny amount of sand last forever.

I actually implemented a regolith-boosted volcanic boiler in my current map. Its job is to convert any input water source to hot fresh water and power.

I'm also setting up my third thermium petroleum boiler unit, with two more in the works, so maybe i have a penchant for excess.

# ? Feb 2, 2021 06:16

AotC: May 16, 2010

Nice, I've been wanting to do a heat based water purifier but could never make a design I liked.

# ? Feb 2, 2021 14:39

insta: Jan 28, 2009

I put automation in the magma chamber, which is where I've gone wrong before. I have a low temp sensor to stop the regolith feed, and a high level sensor which overrides the timer loop. the high level is because otherwise the magma will collide with the autosweeper setup. I'm using a manual-enabled conveyor loader that brings the regolith through the insulated walls and deposits it on an airflow tile in the magma chamber's vacuum, waiting for the sweeper to move it to the steel circulation loop.

The dropper itself uses the mesh-tile corner drop with a temp shift plate. the dropper door is AND-ed between a timer set to 0.8/10sec, and a thermal sensor inside the steam chamber. The debris falls into the steam chamber onto a metal tile and waits for a second sweeper to move the igneous rock into a loader which cycles the rock around the chamber under the turbines until it's below 140C, then the cooled rock is ejected into the final cooler outside (a pool of water cooled by the aquatuner taming the turbines).

There's 5 turbines on the room just so I can sustain 10kg/s. Automation inside the chamber will direct water to an overflow above 20kg/m^3, and this overflow is what feeds everything in my base. If the pressure is low, the overflow goes back into the steam room to prevent cooking.

I have several water vents dropping water directly onto the autosweeper, enabled by a NOT gate from the thermal sensor. A short distance of pipe acts as a buffer. The salt or dirt is scooped up just as the rock is, and ends up in the same pool outside.

The whole system is power positive, a high priority sink for regolith (so it's not used in deodorizers) and capable of eating 20kg/s of water even through volcano dormancies (regolith makes that possible). It can only eject 10kg/s, so until I eat the small boiling salty ocean I've collected, my steam room is going to get pretty full.

My goal is zero sieves, and a centralized, zero-labor, room that purifies the FOUR po2 vents on my map into clean germy oxygen for suits or space. That can probably be fed forever from sand crushed from the ejected igneous.

This game consumes so much free time

# ? Feb 2, 2021 15:57

insta: Jan 28, 2009

My regolith-boosted magma-powered water purifier successfully ate about 550 tiles of salt water and was power-positive the whole time.

Now, I just need to find some fullerene so I can stop making LOX with thermo regulators

# ? Feb 8, 2021 16:57

Shumagorath: Jun 6, 2001

Have Klei said anything about the nuclear isotopes / systems? With basically unlimited power available to anyone who can manufacture glass, I'm wondering what there is to gain from having to refine uranium and process waste.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 00:28

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# ? Apr 23, 2024 14:13

insta: Jan 28, 2009

Right now I mostly break into space as a completionist thing. I'm otherwise completely content to conquer the asteroid itself. Nuclear would make my game happier.

# ? Feb 9, 2021 02:37

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Oxygen Not Included - The result was disgusting

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