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The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



temple posted:

I've played this game for 119 hours and just realized you can rotate doors



Yeah, this is handy if you're trying to seal off a vertical area but still want people to be able to pass through. Something I discovered before I realized this is that they CAN'T open a vertically oriented door from above or below (I would also assume they can't open a horizontally oriented door from the sides but I don't know why you'd set something up that way anyway).

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Makaris
May 4, 2009


temple posted:

I've played this game for 119 hours and just realized you can rotate doors



WHAT

temple
Jul 29, 2006



I love this

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


I hope the next content patch hits soon.

Tree Bucket
Apr 1, 2016



temple posted:

I love this


Interesting! I've always had one big room of cots and a second big room of mess tables. I'll have to try this Personal Space method instead. Do the dupes get lonely at all...?

Q8ee
May 31, 2013

Michael Scott posted:

Wayne Gretzky posted:

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.


Personal space bedrooms are awesome but loud snorers have magical snores that can penetrate through the doors and into the rooms of their neighbours, which makes them a pain if you've got a loud sleeper.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


I make them sleep 3 to a room, they each get a painting, and the room shares a statue and a plant. Works pretty well. I figure they like to eat together so I make the mess room communal.

I spend the early game building a water reservoir at the bottom of the base while mining out the base biome, which works pretty well.

Also for cooking water I build a sink in the kitchen. Put the outlet in the bottom and make the wall two tiles high so it doesn't splash out.

My last game was pretty much perfect, I had a whole power system connected by high voltage with transformers going out to power 1K circuits. I was making more polluted water than I could use with the 6 natural gas gens I had running but I just built more hydro farm tiles for peppernut and mealwood and dug out the polluted water reservoir. Made way too much food and no one got stressed so I feel kind of like I'm at the end of content for now.

I could make a cleaner air setup (I just had electrolyzers, pumps and filters and a couple hydrogen generators at the top of the base) and figure out a better way to cool water (I pumped very cold gas all through one holding tank off a steam chamber, and I just built another one surrounded by ice) but I think it would almost run forever, if it weren't for the polluted water maybe rising again.

drat fun game though.

temple
Jul 29, 2006



Dogen posted:

Also for cooking water I build a sink in the kitchen. Put the outlet in the bottom and make the wall two tiles high so it doesn't splash out.
That's pretty smart. Would the vent just get filled and stop emitting water? I was using a liquid value but I had to adjust it every couple of cycles when it was too much or too little.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Yep, water vents will overpressure just like air vents. And I keep two fridges in the kitchen, one for wheat and one for everything else.

Mr. Powers
Jun 28, 2005

white and gold.


I just bought this game during the sale (it was 0% off!) because it showed up in my queue. Fun so far!

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014



I've been playing for a little while, but I have an annoying insecurity regarding how the economy is set up: as far as I can tell, the economy is rigged so you will never be truly self-sufficient. So what does gameplay look like, once you're consistently lasting long enough to chew through all the algae near your starting base? Is the intent to build ever-expanding hallways throughout the world and making longer and longer algae/water/dirt farming trips until the map runs out of resources?

Dryb
Jul 30, 2007

What did I do?

You can be self-sufficient once you find enough steam geysers -- they produce infinite water.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


You can make your base self sufficient because you have infinite energy through natural gas and infinite water through steam geysers. Electrolyzers split water to get you more O2. Depending on the map you can switch to electrolyzers well before you run out of algae. Also you can make more algae via slime, and there are those annoying fish that are impossible to corral that poop slime. Also hatches poop coal but I usually try to move straight to natural gas if I can, I've set up hatch pens before but I don't really think coal security is that important.

The only finite resources right now are sand and fertilizer for peppernut. And bleach stone to go into hand sanitizers. The most annoying thing to run out of is sand.

But yeah, unless you really want to play with the physics or set yourself some specific challenge once you get past a certain point the game is kind of done, but the game isn't content complete yet so they'll be adding more stuff to it over time.

Dogen fucked around with this message at Jun 24, 2017 around 15:39

temple
Jul 29, 2006



Algae isn't important once you setup an electrolyzer -> hydrogen generator. I use algae to make portable air supply when exploring.
Don't ask how, just know this works. It produces wasted energy up to about 4 batteries.



I'm curious to see people's O2 setups.

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014



Hmm, thanks- I guess I haven't run into a geyser yet, I've always used electrolyzers with pockets of water found around the asteroid (which obviously looked like a slower version of the algae problem).

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


temple posted:

Algae isn't important once you setup an electrolyzer -> hydrogen generator. I use algae to make portable air supply when exploring.
Don't ask how, just know this works. It produces wasted energy up to about 4 batteries.



I'm curious to see people's O2 setups.

2 pumps per electrolyzer is a little more efficient because it keeps the air a little more pressurized, if you have all 3 running it will create a vacuum, although I am lazy and run mine all in open air which is also suboptimal.

I have a full size floor (4 tiles tall) at the top of the base with electrolyzers, a gas permeable ceiling up there, then a 2 tile tall attic with gas pumps on top of that with hydrogen filtering out to a couple hydrogen generators and a valve/pipe/vent system to shunt O2 back down into the base. All the attic crap is hooked up with heavi watt wire I pulled through a service hatch that runs beside the living area up from my natural gas plants so people don't have to look at it (heavi watt wire is ugly) and I don't have to worry about balancing the power between all the high watt devices and the hydrogen generator.

Everyone knows you can hook heavi watt across things with wire bridges, right? I only
bring it up because the horizontal door discussion from the last page and it was one of the last things I learned that helped me out a lot.

temple
Jul 29, 2006



2 pumps 1 electrolyzer is more efficient. I figured out what was going on.

Here is a better example with just 2 pumps.



You have to prime the generator.
1) Turn off the generator
2) Let the O2 room fill so that the pumps and the electrolyzer stops working
3) Let the batteries charge (since nothing is drawing from them any more)
4) Turn on the generator

The generator will run the system with energy to spare. 2 pumps, electrolyzer, and filter is 720w and the generator produces 800w. The batteries even out the system. That's why a 3 pump system works as well. Either way, you get O2 without algae or electricity. Just add water.

You might be able to include the liquid pump but that might be pushing it. It probably works considering the pump doesn't have to run constantly to supply 1000g/s to the electrolyzer.

temple fucked around with this message at Jun 24, 2017 around 19:30

Mr. Powers
Jun 28, 2005

white and gold.


The randomly generated name for my 3rd go round (in about 15 hours of play) is The Inspiring Trainwreck, and oh what a wreck it has been. I had a stable base at 7 dupes and algae was running low so I tapped into a slime biome to refine, but that turned out to be a terrible way to go. I had about 5 cycles where they were spending about half their time suffocating and/or starving because there wasn't any oxygen (not overwhelmed by co2, just near-vacuum from scrubbers). They were all stressed from everything.
Since, I've managed to go another 40 cycles from disaster to disaster. I switched back to muck bars or whatever they are (since the farm had died off) to solve starvation, and managed to get them to complete an electrolyzer setup before any deaths. Then power generation was an issue, so I got the hydrogen generators going (previously I had 3 coal generators out of coal, and two NG generators running off a single geyser). After that, my water reservoir ran empty, so I spent a while tapping into a steam geyser. Now, I've got the problem of my base getting hot from filling my reservoir with hot water, so I'm working on a cooling system. At the same time, my septic reservoir has filled and I need to get that pumped out.

E: PS this is fun.

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


As far as I can tell, you can remain on a muck bar diet forever. The other foods don't have any appreciable advantages, considering the trouble they are worth (esp. with farming and stuff, which requires an entire subsystem).

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011

Gaze into the 8-ball.


There's only a finite amount of soil, so muckbars won't last you forever, but by the time you're under threat of running out you can definitely have got a lot of farming going.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


They stress dupes out and supposedly can give them diarrhea. Dupes have a food quality expectation which is usually -2 to start (liceloaf) and I think it gets higher as they gain skills, but sleet wheat is so drat easy once you get it going because you get a ton of it, and as a bonus it uses the less power hungry cook station to make frost buns.

I guess if you're destressing them in other ways it works out but I like to keep them below 10% unless they're having to do far away construction or digging.

Also the ratio of gas geyser to generator is like 1:1.66, if you slap a fertilizer maker in there it outputs natural gas to bring it up to 1:2 AND it eats polluted water. The fertilizer is fine I guess but I leave my old composting toilet setup and the dupes seem to prefer it and that seems to break even, and also letting them go in there to grab it allows gas to escape so I usually just keep the geyser room door locked.

Dogen fucked around with this message at Jun 24, 2017 around 22:54

Mr. Powers
Jun 28, 2005

white and gold.


So, the problem I'm having now is that I'm producing too much oxygen, and I don't know what to do with it. My gas pumps with the electrolyzers have nowhere to put it in the entire place. There's almost no CO2 left to scrub out. I'd try to freeze it or liquefy it or something, but I can't generate enough power to do that. Is there something I'm missing or did I just start scraping the limit of this map? (I only have one NG geyser so that only gets me 1600W (-240 for the pump, 120 for the filter, and 120 for the scrubber, so net +1220W). Each of the four electrolyzer setups is only producing a net of 80W (800 - 240 -240 -120 -120) and that's even when it's running constant (which it can't right now).

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


You really only have one? Have you explored the whole map?

Mr. Powers
Jun 28, 2005

white and gold.


No. There may be others. My understanding is that they tend to appear in court, and that I just got the short end of the RNG. Will they always be partially exposed?

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


I've always seen them partially exposed, yeah. Both kinds of geysers always spawn in the slime zone as far as I know. I feel like usually I see 4+ of each.

Mr. Powers
Jun 28, 2005

white and gold.


I'll do some exploration. There's lots of slime biome around me. E: Found a void. That could help with my excess O2 problem. E2: found 4 steam geyser (plus the one I'm already using) before finding one other NG geyser.

Mr. Powers fucked around with this message at Jun 25, 2017 around 21:11

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014



So okay, I have one pump, two electrolyzers supplying O2 for three people, and that's great, but I don't have a geyser visible on the revealed map; should I build pressure doors around my base so the O2 doesn't leak into the tunnels, then just start digging huge exploratory veins in every direction until I find a geyser for permanent water?

temple
Jul 29, 2006



You have the right idea. The pressure is needed to keep the O2 at a useful quantity and so it creates a boundary between you and other gasses.
Steam geysers are in the slime biome.

Mr. Powers
Jun 28, 2005

white and gold.


If you're using the hydrogen, eventually you may want to open the doors and have the O2 leak out because the base will have hit max pressure. It does depend on how many dupes you have and if you're scrubbing the CO2. This is the problem I'm up against right now.

meatsaw
May 31, 2005


Real tanks can't come soon enough!

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


I usually pipe out excess oxygen to nearby ice and slime biomes so dupes can breathe at the old sleet wheat farm and in the natural gas power plant, but I keep an airlock up (although if it's a door they use CONSTANTLY I put in an electronic door even though they suck power). It's also helpful because you can cool O2 in the ice biome and send it back as a form of A/C if you're keeping up a mealwood or bristleberry farm, or to use cold gas to cool a hot water dumping tank.

Mr. Powers
Jun 28, 2005

white and gold.


Dogen posted:

I usually pipe out excess oxygen to nearby ice and slime biomes so dupes can breathe at the old sleet wheat farm and in the natural gas power plant, but I keep an airlock up (although if it's a door they use CONSTANTLY I put in an electronic door even though they suck power). It's also helpful because you can cool O2 in the ice biome and send it back as a form of A/C if you're keeping up a mealwood or bristleberry farm, or to use cold gas to cool a hot water dumping tank.

My second NG Geyser is near a void, so I'm going to flush it to vacuum and seal it up so I can run without a gas filter.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Ugh I never get voids. I saw one once when I was still learning and assumed they were a regular feature but from what I read it's a map generator thing where if it tries to build something and it can't a void gets out there?

Running filterless doesn't help NG that much because although they're easy to isolate you can run several geysers through one filter no problem, as compared to the amount of work it takes to separate H and O2. I usually enclose them anyway but I have someone go in there occasionally to pick up the fertilizer.

Mr. Powers
Jun 28, 2005

white and gold.


I'm trying to maximize power available for other tasks, and it's only one geyser, so that one filter costs 60W/generator.

That brings up another thing I think the game needs: more unpowered items. I'd love to have a drain tile that will allow liquid into a pipe provided that the exit points are below it.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Dogen posted:

Ugh I never get voids. I saw one once when I was still learning and assumed they were a regular feature but from what I read it's a map generator thing where if it tries to build something and it can't a void gets out there?

Running filterless doesn't help NG that much because although they're easy to isolate you can run several geysers through one filter no problem, as compared to the amount of work it takes to separate H and O2. I usually enclose them anyway but I have someone go in there occasionally to pick up the fertilizer.

I think voids are generated the same way as natural gas/steam geysers but the odds of them appearing are much lower. So while you'll usually get a few of each geyser on your map, you might not get any voids at all. They might also be restricted to less common biomes as well - I know that volcanic biomes seem to be less common than slime or glacial, so if it requires one of them to spawn that just cuts the odds even more.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Mr. Powers posted:

I'm trying to maximize power available for other tasks, and it's only one geyser, so that one filter costs 60W/generator.

That brings up another thing I think the game needs: more unpowered items. I'd love to have a drain tile that will allow liquid into a pipe provided that the exit points are below it.
[/

[quote="Mr. Powers" post="473779350"]
I'm trying to maximize power available for other tasks, and it's only one geyser, so that one filter costs 60W/generator.

That brings up another thing I think the game needs: more unpowered items. I'd love to have a drain tile that will allow liquid into a pipe provided that the exit points are below it.

I hear ya. Yeah my endgame colony had 4 geysers and 8 generators hooked up, plus two hydrogen generators (one of which was working full time) so one gas filter was not a huge investment.

I think liquid flowing into a pipe wouldn't work because it depends on the flow being one way and pressurized- I don't know that the way the physics model is setup would allow this.

Bhodi
Dec 9, 2007

Oh, it's just a cat.


Pillbug

That binge eater disadvantage is a little unbalanced. I had a guy over the period of 2 cycles systematically eat every single one of my liceloaves, he had to have eaten over 30 and each time he got angry because it wasn't up to his standards. But he ate it anyway. Then when I ran completely out of food he pissed all over the floor because he had needed to pee for 2 days straight. Then my colony went into a tantrum spiral because he ate my entire stock of food, game over

I think you guys are way ahead of me, since I only had 9 guys and never explored outside the initial biome. I discovered the natural gas plant spews polluted water all over the floor for some reason (!!!) which would have been nice to know from the tooltip or something. Actually none of the buildings specify input and output, like the air scrubber takes directly from surrounding air and not a vent which seems silly to me IMO, and it doesn't say it needs water until you place it.

Bhodi fucked around with this message at Jun 27, 2017 around 01:33

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Yeah there's a bit of a learning curve.

My NGG power plant build is just put em on mesh tile over my polluted water reservoir. All of this is good to build in the slime biome because that's where you'll probably have a polluted water reservoir anyway, and the generators get damned hot and shouldn't be in the living area.

CO2 moves down and right so just have a few gas permeable tiles every floor (I put them around ladders) to let it sink to the bottom right, then you have a scrubber down there handle it (I have 2 because I pipe all the CO2 from my NGGs into the sink as well, which seemed like a terrible idea but is actually working pretty well). You can put them on an atmo pressure switch to make sure they flip on when there is a buildup and off when it's dissipated.

Dogen fucked around with this message at Jun 27, 2017 around 02:14

temple
Jul 29, 2006



I never let my dupes get stressed. Ever. Getting dupes wet increases their stress generation. Running out of air pisses them off. Debris stresses them. I research Interior Decor first, then Farming. I make portraits over beds and outhouses, flanked by statues. Then I put same decor over the manual generator and research stations. I've never seen an explanation of what causes interrupted sleep but it increases their stress factor also. Lavatories, warmth , and fullness tend to stop them from waking up. I spend cycles 7-9 (ish) just doing decor. The micro musher has a large decor penalty too. I tile up their work/living areas, sweep them, and pump oxygen into them. You should lose around ~8-10% stress each night if done well. Reconfiguring the massage table to an upper limit of 35 to 0 or something like 15 or 10 on the lower end helps a bunch. They don't need and rarely reach 0% stress on the tables anyway. Its entirely doable to stay at 0% stress for a long time. Its usually water and getting wet that spikes stress gain.

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Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Content update news in this thread on the Klei forums: http://forums.kleientertainment.com...update-preview/

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