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temple
Jul 29, 2006



The content update looked cool. I would have posted notes if not for others. I like the water bottler but its seems too big.

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temple
Jul 29, 2006



Video July 6th, 2017 content preview: World generation

No new content was shown in game. Someone in the thread about the stream showed a new creature type and structure. Its called a volgus and they move in and out of the den structure.


New debugging tools
An area with structures can be saved and pasted. Players may be able to share them with each other. The starting area (printing pod, ration box, and patch of oxylite) is pasted into the world on generation.
World seeds will be shareable in the next update.

World gen explanation
This was mainly code talk. Simply, the world is hot on the bottom and cooler on the top (but not always cold). The world is generated as a map, then the map is sectioned off into polygon shapes.
The starting biome, they called it sedimentary, is intended to be more horizontal than other areas.
Each section are usually biomes but biomes are just collections of noise. Noise determines where elements/tiles should be approximately. The noise is stretched to the shape of the section and the elements/tiles are determined by the biome.
The world gen algorithm can break and those sections appear as voids in game.
Diseases are randomly placed in the world also. We know there will be food poisoning and they showed that trench stench will be back.

Points of interest
Pre-generated buildings with tiles and structures will be placed in the map. Works like the saved rooms described above.
They showed a house point of interest. The other points of interest were only shown in a world view and not in game. They want it to be a secret but they looked vaguely ship like (triangles like a ship's head, cylinders like its fuselage or tail. There was a disk kinda UFO shaped area too).

Random stuff
They are using the Unity engine and editor. The new build crashes a lot in debug mode.
Plushies are being considered like a puft.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Vomiting crying dupe plush or bust

Tree Bucket
Apr 1, 2016



Hmm, thanks for the update info! Derelict buildings scattered around the map would be a fantastic change.

(Incidentally I'd like a Stinky plush. That dude often seems to wind up with good stats in my games.)

RazNation
Aug 5, 2015


enraged_camel posted:

As far as I can tell, you can remain on a muck bar diet forever. The other foods don't have any appreciable advantages, considering the trouble they are worth (esp. with farming and stuff, which requires an entire subsystem).

actually no, as time passes, you dups start to get the hungry for better food.

wheat is where it is at. If you plant it right, you get food and extra seeds.

RazNation
Aug 5, 2015


Dogen posted:

Yep, water vents will overpressure just like air vents. And I keep two fridges in the kitchen, one for wheat and one for everything else.

F the fridges. put those food bins in a cold bio-doom room (30į or below) and your food will stay fresh with no electricity being used.

RazNation
Aug 5, 2015


enraged_camel posted:

I always put my musher right next to water. There is still the dirt requirement though.

put your musher in a dark corner, it gives off negative decor.

RazNation
Aug 5, 2015


temple posted:

I started playing this a couple of weeks ago. Really engrossing. My biggest thrill is watching everything come together for a few cycles, especially getting water flow done well. Biggest grip is the lack of a priority system for skills because it takes a lot of watching and clicking to pull people off jobs if a snag occurs. I tend to find CO2 being my biggest threat by far.

When you open the jobs dialog box, click on those right facing triangles, they do things.

Travic
May 27, 2007

Getting nowhere fast


Pillbug

RazNation posted:

F the fridges. put those food bins in a cold bio-doom room (30° or below) and your food will stay fresh with no electricity being used.

I also put the pantry in the bottom of the base and let it fill with CO2. It gives the sterile atmosphere buff and the food lasts forever.

Dupes just have to hold their breath for a second when they get hungry.

RazNation
Aug 5, 2015


Q8ee posted:

I never used mush bars cause it says they can get sick, but if the extent of their illness is diarrhea, I'm going to start force-feeding mush bars from now on.

Has anything been done to make algae more easily cultivatable? The version before EA came out, it was an absolute bitch to cultivate, and you'd eventually dry up all your algae.

you can make algae from slime but it is slow and it makes polluted water. Besides, you need two algae makers for one algae oxy makers.

RazNation
Aug 5, 2015


Travic posted:

I also put the pantry in the bottom of the base and let it fill with CO2. It gives the sterile atmosphere buff and the food lasts forever.

Dupes just have to hold their breath for a second when they get hungry.

yea, it gives it the 'preserves' the food but I like the cold bio cuz I can keep my wheat and seed in there.

RazNation
Aug 5, 2015


The Cheshire Cat posted:

More questions, after my 3rd attempt at a colony went pretty well (75 cycles and they're starting to spiral now, mainly because I ran out of coal to run my generators. It might still be salvageable but I feel like starting a new one with what I've learned anyway).

-Are transformers one-way? I came up with a nice setup where I keep my generators and heavy cables all running outside the base, then I use transformers on each floor to run small wires in through the walls to prevent overloading. However, I'd also like to set up some hamster wheels inside the oxygenated area just in case I need to generate emergency power; will they feed their generated energy back out through the transformers and out to the other floors?

-Are heavy cables supposed to be able to run through airlocks? I've found that if I build the cable first, then place an airlock on top of it after it's been constructed, the game is fine with that. But if I try to queue up both to be built at once, it'll tell me the location is invalid for the cable, and if I try to queue a cable over an already constructed airlock, it just doesn't let me place it. I assume some part of all that is a bug but I'm not sure which.m

-Is there a way to speed up melting ice? I had some mined ice sitting in a storage container that was heated up to 50 degrees (Celsius) by the surrounding water, and it was heating up, but VERY slowly. Admittedly there was 14,000 kilograms of it in there (the masses in this game are so weird), but still, the temperature barely moved over like a dozen cycles.

Transformers are one way. There is a arrow on them to show which way the juice flows. electricity will not flow back through the generator. you would be better off running small wire from hamster wheel to the batteries.

big wire through doors is kind of a bug which will probably be fixed soon. Try using a large wire bridge to get through doors and walls.

not sure why you want to melt ice when a steam geyser will give you more water.....in less time.

temple
Jul 29, 2006



RazNation posted:

When you open the jobs dialog box, click on those right facing triangles, they do things.

They are on or off. Priorities are all or nothing, so they apply for the whole colony. Like if I prioritize sweep, everyone sweeps. I can set one dupe to sweep, but then that's just one person. I can manually turn it on and off in the jobs menu for multiple dupes but that a lot of clicks. Simply, I want to take a dupe and say, you sweep first then do everything else.

A good example is delivery, its applied to many things, filling machines with materials, fertilizing, its too broad. The next patch will allow dupes to do job stealing, so it should better. Otherwise, you have to dupes running from one end of the colony to another just to pick up a piece of slime.

temple fucked around with this message at Jul 11, 2017 around 21:33

temple
Jul 29, 2006



RazNation posted:

big wire through doors is kind of a bug which will probably be fixed soon. Try using a large wire bridge to get through doors and walls.
Big wire isn't supposed to go through doors afaik. I just make wire bridges around them.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


I have extra power so I like having the fridges in the mess hall where itís a decor boost and no one has to walk to the wheat farm to pick up food. I do have ration boxes in the freezer though for long term storage in case some kind of crap up happens. I donít keep enough co2 on the water reservoir in the bottom of the base to reliably keep that environment sterile enough, although it would be closer.

ďtempleĒ" post="ď474268443Ē posted:

Big wire isnít supposed to go through doors afaik. I just make wire bridges around them.

I think this is the intended function for now, not sure if theyíre planning on making a different structure (there is only one kind of wire bridge currently)

RazNation
Aug 5, 2015


temple posted:

Big wire isn't supposed to go through doors afaik. I just make wire bridges around them.

yea, they fixed that. Too bad the big wires have such an ugly decor rating.

My first colony is right at 137 cycles and it has so many bad designs in it, I don't know why I don't just axe it and start a new one.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


I find confining the heavi watt wire to the power plant area and a service trunk that goes to the attic of the base (to put air production and hydrogen burning on the main grid) works well. I just donít have anything dupes need to get to in the attic and keep the trunk passage locked so they donít use it as a regular ladder to move around the base. Manage everything else by balancing loads into 1Kish circuits fed by transformers.

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014



So I had my first genuinely successful long(ish) base at 30-ish days elapsed before things became irrecoverably screwed. I thought I had a good thing going with a contained vertical space layered into a carbon dioxide pit, then electrolyzers, then living/working spaces, then a hydrogen trap at the top where I built a hydrogen generator and gas filter:



That generates more than enough oxygen for three crew (I keep getting warning messages that I'm consuming more than I produce, but I've never seen the oxygen drop from teal to blue), my problem is with power: even with two electrolyzers running fulltime, the hydrogen generator eats way more hydrogen than the electrolyzers produce, so I can't count on it for consistent electricity. Coal generators seem finicky (lots of CO2 and my guys never refuel them), and I haven't found a good natural gas source yet- is there a way I can modify my oxygen setup to produce more hydrogen, or should I just rush for natural gas right away and hope to find a geyser before my infrastructure gets too big?

Qubee
May 31, 2013

Michael Scott posted:

Wayne Gretzky posted:

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.


The reason your dupes can't keep the coal generators fed is because you've got 3 dupes at 30 days... Staying small is a viable option, but you'll have too few dupes to really get into the fun stuff. I'd recommend bumping your dupes up to 6 or 7, by slowly introducing them into the colony and ensuring you can keep o2 / food / co2 managed.

temple
Jul 29, 2006



That's a nice small setup. Using the farm tile as a floor is smart. Nice to you see use the lights. Putting the H generator by the pump is good too. I've noticed and others have confirmed that the shorter the line between the gas filter and the generator, the better.

A small improvement would be putting the ration box in the CO2 trap so it will preserve the food. You could also put the farm tiles in the CO2 trap as well because plants don't care what kind of gas is around them, as long as the pressure is above 150g. You can have food and food storage together.

temple fucked around with this message at Jul 14, 2017 around 23:03

temple
Jul 29, 2006



Here is my current map
For some reason the bottom half of the starting biome was largely open, most of that wasn't dug out.
I plant the initial sleet wheat crop in waves so they mature gradually. The 2nd row is planted at 30% growth of the 1st. The 3rd row is planted at 60% of the 1st.


Close up of the colony
I said my dupes never get stressed but they ran out of food and coal at the same time. 42% stress is irregular.
Usually, there is better air pressure but the generators ran out of power (see above) so the CO2 came back up when the electrolyzers stopped. The colony can go without an air scrubber.
The outhouses are replaced with a shower/lavatory combo.
You can see the miracle patch of coal being mined. It was inside the colony the whole time!


Here's a different map where I searched high and low for geysers(steam is on the top, natural on the bottom).


Random "comedy" picture I found

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Omi no Kami posted:

So I had my first genuinely successful long(ish) base at 30-ish days elapsed before things became irrecoverably screwed. I thought I had a good thing going with a contained vertical space layered into a carbon dioxide pit, then electrolyzers, then living/working spaces, then a hydrogen trap at the top where I built a hydrogen generator and gas filter:



That generates more than enough oxygen for three crew (I keep getting warning messages that I'm consuming more than I produce, but I've never seen the oxygen drop from teal to blue), my problem is with power: even with two electrolyzers running fulltime, the hydrogen generator eats way more hydrogen than the electrolyzers produce, so I can't count on it for consistent electricity. Coal generators seem finicky (lots of CO2 and my guys never refuel them), and I haven't found a good natural gas source yet- is there a way I can modify my oxygen setup to produce more hydrogen, or should I just rush for natural gas right away and hope to find a geyser before my infrastructure gets too big?

The coal generators probably weren't being refuelled because of priority settings - if you have everything at priority 5 (the default), then Dupes will do them in a more or less random order (I think they actually do have a kind of internal prioritization for tasks at the same level - they seem to prefer certain ones a lot of the time). So with only 3 dupes, it's entirely possible that they'll just never get to it because more tasks will be generated than they can keep up with. With coal generators, because you don't need to refuel them that often, it's usually a good bet to set them at priority 6 or 7 and set their threshold to 20% or so. Hydrogen generators are very good but also very hard to keep filled up - they're nice for a quick burst of energy to fill up your batteries but it's unlikely that you'll be able to keep them running continuously.

temple
Jul 29, 2006



The Cheshire Cat posted:

The coal generators probably weren't being refuelled because of priority settings - if you have everything at priority 5 (the default), then Dupes will do them in a more or less random order (I think they actually do have a kind of internal prioritization for tasks at the same level - they seem to prefer certain ones a lot of the time).

Roughly, default priorities are:
Deconstruct
Harvest
Mop
Deliver
Dig
Cook
Build
Sweep

I've read conflicting things but this is the best combination of research and my own experience.

temple fucked around with this message at Jul 15, 2017 around 02:03

Tree Bucket
Apr 1, 2016



After plenty of (failed) games without ever seeing a single geyser, I've started a map with a steam geyser to one side of my start, and a natural gas geyser on the other. What should I do with this bounty?

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014



temple posted:

That's a nice small setup. Using the farm tile as a floor is smart. Nice to you see use the lights. Putting the H generator by the pump is good too. I've noticed and others have confirmed that the shorter the line between the gas filter and the generator, the better.

Thanks! Out of curiosity, what's the rationale for keeping the gas line short? I've found myself using massive pipelines for natural gas, simply to minimize the chance of gas getting near my airlocks once it's wired up and functioning.

temple
Jul 29, 2006



Omi no Kami posted:

Thanks! Out of curiosity, what's the rationale for keeping the gas line short? I've found myself using massive pipelines for natural gas, simply to minimize the chance of gas getting near my airlocks once it's wired up and functioning.

Electrolyzers produce oxygen and hydrogen in a 8:1 ratio. So, there is less hydrogen made per second than oxygen. Keeping the line from the gas filter to the generator short helps keep it fed. Another way to keep the generator fed is to disable until it is full and turn it on. Hopefully the flow of hydrogen will catch up to the generator's potential.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Hydrogen generators are more about recapturing the energy you expend with electrolyzers than an independent source of power

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Dogen posted:

Hydrogen generators are more about recapturing the energy you expend with electrolyzers than an independent source of power

Yeah, even if you tap into a natural hydrogen pocket you'll burn through it incredibly quickly with a hydrogen generator.

The way I've kind of worked things out is that your main power supply should come from manual generators initially, then natural gas later (since both are 100% renewable). Coal makes for a good bridge between those if you're having trouble finding natural gas geysers, since you generally find quite a bit of it in the initial biome, but it will run out eventually. Hydrogen is basically "bonus" power - same output as natural gas, without the byproducts, but the fuel supply won't keep up with the rate of consumption.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


You can make a hatch corral, they eat whatever and poop coal. I put a dirt storage container in the corral and empty it when they run out of food.

I have found I donít need more than the coal you start with nearby, if any, currently, unless the map is really bad.

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014



How do you handle the massive CO2 buildup? Do you just plant an air scrubber (and, for natural gas, a pump that sucks up any gas which leaks past the generator into your base) right next to the generator, and count the filtration medium you'll need to get your water back as a sunk cost?

temple
Jul 29, 2006



Omi no Kami posted:

How do you handle the massive CO2 buildup? Do you just plant an air scrubber (and, for natural gas, a pump that sucks up any gas which leaks past the generator into your base) right next to the generator, and count the filtration medium you'll need to get your water back as a sunk cost?

Short answer: Make a pit in the bottom right of your base for CO2 to settle. Then maintain high O2 to push the CO2 into the pit.

Air scrubber short answer: Sit it near the bottom right of your base.
Slight longer answer: After the past hotfixes, air scrubbers now only turn on when CO2 is present (tiles are touching CO2). Attach a atmo switch to the wire leading to the air scrubber (preferably with the switch on the ground near it) and set it to activate when pressure is above 300g. This will only turn on the air scrubber when the max amount of CO2 can be processed, making it more energy and water efficient.

Long and torturous answer: Gases push against each other. The gas with the most pressure will expand and the lower pressure gas will compress. Gas will still maintain their position relative to atomic weight. So hydrogen will always rise above oxygen, CO2 will be below oxygen. But, the space they occupy will grow based which has higher pressure. Gas vents and I *think* algae deoxifiers will maintain around 1900gs of pressure. This means that they can compress CO2 at a slightly lower amount. Since you cannot force more O2 pressure, you can expand the area where CO2 expands. If CO2 pressure is higher than 1900gs, dig lower and to the right of the CO2 pit to expand the area the gas is contained to lower its pressure.

In the wild, like the slime biome, gas pressure is much higher. Polluted oxygen can be as high as 4000g. This is due to polluted water and slime emitted polluted oxygen constantly. I'm having some problems with this atm in regards to venting output gas from a gas filter connected to the natural gas generator. The only way to make a mineral inert (stop producing gas) is to submerge under water. Water has effectively infinity gas pressure, so slime or polluted dirt in water of any form will not emit gas. A trick I use is building a storage container 1 tile under water and storing slime in it. You could do the same with polluted dirt created from outhouses, but I'd rather make fertilizer with it.

temple fucked around with this message at Jul 15, 2017 around 22:25

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


I wall off and destroy as much slime as I can in my power plant / polluted water / pincha farm area, and try not to dig into those polluted o2 areas that have like 20k pressure.

I fill my water reservoir with steam geyser water that I chill, I donít burn sand on filtering. To keep the polluted water level down I irrigate mealwood and whatever else takes polluted water (pincha and something else)

You can also Iím geyser water straight into electrolyzers because itís temp is destroyed when it goes through them, although you have to deal with the heat from the pipes as it goes there by clever routing or insulation, assuming itís coming into your living area or a farm or whatever.

Dogen fucked around with this message at Jul 15, 2017 around 22:51

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014



Hmm, I'm hitting the point where my gas balances are pretty okay, but I always have a smidgen of CO2/polluted oxygen floating around the inside of my pressurized base. If I build a gas pump + filter where gasses tend to congregate, then disable both once they've done their job, will they still draw power from the grid?

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


If you turn them off with a switch they donít draw power. For polluted o2 I just build a deodorizer if there is enough of a pocket to justify it. For co2 you can always corral it in a sink. It moves down and right so just let gasses flow freely in the living quarters through the use of some gas permeable tiles and put a scrubber down there. I also pump the exhaust from my NGGs to the same spot because all the scrubber infrastructure is already there.

temple
Jul 29, 2006



Disabled buildings don't draw power. Pumps only draw power when they pump. A gas pump in a vacuum or with a blocked pipe doesn't draw power.

You can put as many machines as you want on a regular wire but as long as total draw at any given moment is below 1kw, the circuit won't overload.

Bhodi
Dec 9, 2007

Oh, it's just a cat.


Pillbug

Anyone have any good design tips lately? That little hydrogen generator room a few pages ago was great but they seem to have fixed the drip-feeding-algae trick of a few pages back, it no longer works.

I also must be missing something on the tooltips that pop up when you mouse over buildings on the build list because I had no idea the natural gas generator leaked polluted water until it had messed up my base. In fact, there doesn't seem to be any list of intakes/outputs of the buildings, like I didn't realize the CO2 scrubber pulled directly from the air rather than vents, and required water, it's all just "build it a new thing, hope you can fiddle with it until it works".

Once I unlocked the thick wire cable I realized that I built completely inadequately and had no real idea how to design with electricity in mind, and other than CO2 intake being at the bottom-right I have I have a few ideas about what a good base should look like beyond ladderways being 3 deep and having a two-thick floor to later put in lights and to try and keep it "one room" for ease of gas management.

I was thinking of either putting a feed column horizontal or vertical between floors to hide it and then have one transformer per floor, but I guess you have to put the transformer inside the column because the small wires are the only things that can go through walls. So it looks like maybe I need to build modularly after all, at least with respect to the production/consumption devices.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Everything in my NGG room is connected with heavi watt, then I have transformers near the top of that room that send out regular wire to 1K circuits around the base. There is a vertical service corridor running alongside the base with heavi watt to the gas equipment in the living quarters attic, which also has some transformers coming off it. I pull the heavi watt out of the service trunk (and also sealed geyser rooms) with a wire bridge across a locked door.

Bhodi
Dec 9, 2007

Oh, it's just a cat.


Pillbug

I read above that they are fixing the heavy-watt-through-doors thing, though. The problem with a vertical service trunk seems to be largely that your guys are going to have to cross it regularly and there doesn't seem to be a way around that. You need power going to machines at the bottom of your base, I haven't tried it but possibly if you concentrate all machines in the lower levels in isolated rooms you can stay "above" the heavy cable most of the time.

Bhodi fucked around with this message at Jul 16, 2017 around 14:01

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011

Gaze into the 8-ball.


Bhodi posted:

I also must be missing something on the tooltips that pop up when you mouse over buildings on the build list because I had no idea the natural gas generator leaked polluted water until it had messed up my base. In fact, there doesn't seem to be any list of intakes/outputs of the buildings, like I didn't realize the CO2 scrubber pulled directly from the air rather than vents, and required water, it's all just "build it a new thing, hope you can fiddle with it until it works".

It took me a long time playing this until I spotted the list of inputs/outputs in the bottom-left of the screen when you're placing a building. That does need to be clearer. And it still doesn't tell you what needs to be piped in/out and what's just drawn in/spat out, but I've noticed that buildings won't pipe both liquids and gasses, which is why the gas generator pipes out CO2 but spits out polluted water, despite the other way round being much more convenient.

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temple
Jul 29, 2006



If you look at the nat gas generator, you can see a little pipe on the bottom right (under the green indicator) where the water drips out.

I usually make transformers and heavy watt wire on the top of my buildings. Then I run regular wire to a battery and inside the buildings.


I try to make a vertical ladder area where dupes travel between biomes. Then I make a a wall, heavy watt wire/ladder combo, and another wall outside of the vertical area. Here is a diagram of how it work, I don't have a screenshot of it. The left ladder is where heavy watt wires runs, the right ladder is where dupes travel. Then use a wire brige to run through the walls at whatever level I need heavy watt power. The crossover is rare because I only need 1 generator level so far.


Here a very rough attempt at a max efficiency nat gas setup


Its embarrassing because you can see little flaws and one big mistake. The CO2 scrubbers has 4 doors because I had made the room smaller at first then expanded. The big problem is the generator on the far right drips into a different pool than the one with the fertilizer makers. All you have to do is what I did on the left side of the generators. Put some tile under the mesh tiles, with a stopper tile on the same height as the mesh, to channel the polluted water into fertilizer area. You can power 7 generators like this once they (the fertilizer makers) get rolling. The atmo switches are important to keep the power from being wasted. The bottom gas pump runs up the same gas filter as the pump in the geyser area.

temple fucked around with this message at Jul 16, 2017 around 14:11

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