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Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Bhodi posted:

I read above that they are fixing the heavy-watt-through-doors thing, though. The problem with a vertical service trunk seems to be largely that your guys are going to have to cross it regularly and there doesn't seem to be a way around that. You need power going to machines at the bottom of your base, I haven't tried it but possibly if you concentrate all machines in the lower levels in isolated rooms you can stay "above" the heavy cable most of the time.

They cross one heavi watt on the way to the power plant which is basically already hell anyway. I havenít seen anything in the updates Iíve read about them changing how heavi watt works... it needs to cross barriers somehow.

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temple
Jul 29, 2006



Dogen posted:

They cross one heavi watt on the way to the power plant which is basically already hell anyway. I havenít seen anything in the updates Iíve read about them changing how heavi watt works... it needs to cross barriers somehow.
Use a wire bridge through tile.

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014



I came up with a base layout that I'm pretty moderately happy with- it's oxygen and food-stable, and small enough that three dupes can operate it with a hamster wheel + hydrogen drip:



The CO2 hellpit down on the right is barely even necessary, I don't think I'd even bother with coal next time. The only real weakness is that it's heavily reliant on water filtration, and sand is a limited resource; once I max out research and get the computers deconstructed, I'll probably start experimenting with using heat/cold to clean air and water without sand.

temple
Jul 29, 2006



People overstate issues with sand. Its in all biomes and comes in dense patches. The most pressing resource for me is often power.

temple fucked around with this message at Jul 17, 2017 around 00:35

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014



That actually raises a good point though- assuming sand is plentiful-ish, what should my midgame look like? I'm on cycle 29 and almost finished researching, and once my computers are no longer necessary I'm gonna shrink and try to optimize the inside of my living + work areas a bit, but once that's done the only things that really need to happen are some scouting to build up a surplus of sand, and grinding two of my dupes into a cook and internal decorator, so I can stay ahead of the tantrum spiral as long as possible. Otherwise, it seems like I can pretty much hang out in my small oxygen hole forever.

temple
Jul 29, 2006



I really can't say what is mid game since there are no goals to the game. I'd say getting a natural gas and steam geyser tapped resolves sustainability issues. Make abyssalite pipes in your base and plug in your machines to a steam geyser. No more water issues. A natural gas geyser with 7 generators and 16 fertilizer makers provides over 2.7kw of power, which is enough for me.

5 dupes is what I can handle until the electrolyzers are set up. 12 dupes is my mid game and then the race to uncover the geysers. Its the most tense part because the geysers can be anywhere. My water and coal reserves are the deadline.

edit:
Here's how I cross heavy watt wire from one side to another. 2 wire bridges with one strip of wire exposed. Its around -40 ish with the statue. I try to keep heavy watt wire behind a wall.


Here's tapping geysers so I can build around them at leasure. One layer of granite is all you need



I'll post the vertical heavy watt wire setup when I build it. Don't need it yet.

temple fucked around with this message at Jul 17, 2017 around 05:40

Q8ee
May 31, 2013

Michael Scott posted:

Wayne Gretzky posted:

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.


How would you be able to access that geyser in the future? Trying to add a door / piping / anything would cause the wall to be deconstructed and spew steam all over your dupe doing the work, no?

temple
Jul 29, 2006



Q8ee posted:

How would you be able to access that geyser in the future? Trying to add a door / piping / anything would cause the wall to be deconstructed and spew steam all over your dupe doing the work, no?

Dupes are tough, hatches do more damage than geysers. Dupes lose like 1-2 hit points when they get scalded. Once a geyser is over pressure, it doesn't emit. So dupes can deconstruct the wall without everything spraying out. But you have to be quick or lucky to get whatever work done before the geyser goes into an emitting cycle. They don't emit all the time even when they are open. There is only a couple of seconds of hot stuff coming out every cycle.

temple fucked around with this message at Jul 17, 2017 around 12:12

d3c0y2
Sep 29, 2009


I just accidentally killed a base by flooding it with hydrogen.

I had two geysers at the bottom of my base so I started making s lot of oxygen with them but dumb me just decided to have them sit at the bottom rung of the base above the co2 pit and ventilate the entire base into a big mine at the top.

Well everything was fine but I was mining out a different part of the map and didn't check back for ages and hydrogen filled the mine and started forcing its way back down into the bedrooms below.

Do most people keep the oxygen/hydrogen producing things separate from the main base and then just pump oxygen into the main base?

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


I just have pumps to make oxygen go where I want at the top of the base, and since hydrogen goes up those pumps catch all the hydrogen and filter it to generators to recapture some electricity from the gas setup. Iíve heard itís also the most efficient gas to use for cooling and I have some chilled hydrogen in a radiator in my geyser cooling pool but I dunno if it works that much better.

temple
Jul 29, 2006



d3c0y2 posted:

Do most people keep the oxygen/hydrogen producing things separate from the main base and then just pump oxygen into the main base?
I like pumping because I can direct it to other places, especially when I hit max pressure. Works really well! Here's my set-up for O2. I use 2 of these, I think 1 set-up feeds 4 dupes and with pressure, I can supply 12 dupes.

Hydrogen is good for transferring heat. So, it will cool if it is cold. It will heat if it is hot. Someone on the main forum said that natural gas (with CO2 as a cheaper alternative) is best for insulating, it makes air retain its temperature. Air temp is more important than material temp. So, flooding an area with CO2 and running piping with cold hydrogen is optimal.

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


Man, the content patch better come out this week. 2 months is way too long for early access content updates.

temple
Jul 29, 2006



enraged_camel posted:

Man, the content patch better come out this week. 2 months is way too long for early access content updates.

Its coming out in a month. Somehow I missed this stream last week.

Latest update video https://www.twitch.tv/videos/158922858

quote:

Summary:

Farming:
New harvest system: plants have a requirement for air pressure, *body temperature* (not air temperature as before), illumination, atmosphere (set of allowed gases), and presence of liquid. If any of these are not met, plants won't grow. Seeds are produced with a % chance on each harvest.
Farming research has been split into 3-- Basic Farming (Tier 1) as before, Meal Prep (T2, Cooking Station, Refrigerator, Farm Tile), and Agriculture (T3, Fertilizer Maker, Hydroponic Farm, ?Seed Splicer?). It looks like Aquatic Farm Tiles are gone.
Mushrooms are now called Dusk Caps and look pretty and purple.
Swamp Lilies are now called Balm Lilies and show up in the Caustic/purple biome. They produce flowers with "medicinal properties".

Liquids:
We saw the Liquid Bottler before, which is built over a liquid and allows dupes to bottle the liquid.
We also have a Bottle Emptier now, to which dupes can deliver bottles to release the liquid. You can set which liquid the Emptier accepts. It empties bottles at a certain rate (seems to be somewhere in 1-10 kg/s)
Bottled polluted water will evaporate, making polluted oxygen.
Mopping makes bottled liquids.

Diseases:
As before we saw the overlay, with germs being shown on cells, dupes, and having sources like outhouses.
Current diseases: Food Poisoning, Trench Stench, The Spores, and Slimelung (seems to be in the Caustic/purple and Swamp/green biomes).
Things like hypothermia that aren't germ-based are separate and still exist, may get called "Ailments".
Duplicants have an "immunity meter" that can be monitored in the vitals panel, and contact with germs depletes immunity. When it hits zero, they get the disease. They appear to innately replenish 10 per cycle. The Immunity stat gives them extra immunity meter.
Germs die faster when the area is heated up.
New Wash Basin building. Duplicants use it if they walk by it (in a particular configurable direction), allowing you to control when they use it by controlling duplicant pathing. Water is delivered to wash basins, and when used they produce bottles of polluted water (with the germs in the bottle).
The hand sanitizer uses the same walk-by system, but destroys the germs instead of moving them.
Polluted Water and Oxygen aren't sources of disease anymore, but they allow germs to spread very quickly.
Slimelung seems to reduce breath capacity and causes them to produce slime.

Miscellaneous:
New Trait, Caregiver, appears to increase Medicine
New negative traits, Squeamish and Trypophobia. Presumably affect stress generation in some way.
Storage Compactors now have a slider for how much you want to store in them (can request less than the full 20 tons).
Plumbing and Ventilation now have separate building tabs.
Priority overlay has been removed from the overlay strip, but using the priority tool still shows it.
New creature, Shine Bug, emits light and has +10 Decor like other creatures.
Daily report now breaks down travel time, and time spent doing different tasks. Helps figure out what duplicants are spending time on (like delivering)

Mr. Powers
Jun 28, 2005

white and gold.


They're going to need to add more ways to delete things. With the new bottling system, I would have overflowed with water from melting ice and the geyser. Having lots of options to create stuff (steam and NG geyser) and not as many to get rid of stuff (void, CO2 scrubber, deodorizer) is problematic.

d3c0y2
Sep 29, 2009


Don't hydroponic tiles effectively destroy water?

Unless I've been setting them up wrong they only seem to intake water that the plant consumes - but the plant just turns into food that your dupes eat and effectively turn into nothing?

temple
Jul 29, 2006



d3c0y2 posted:

Don't hydroponic tiles effectively destroy water?

Unless I've been setting them up wrong they only seem to intake water that the plant consumes - but the plant just turns into food that your dupes eat and effectively turn into nothing?

Plants also lower air pressure as they grow, destroying the gas. LOL I just came up with a solution to a problem I've been having. Thanks!

d3c0y2
Sep 29, 2009


temple posted:

Plants also lower air pressure as they grow, destroying the gas. LOL I just came up with a solution to a problem I've been having. Thanks!

Wait what Gases? Do they absorb oxygen, or just co2? Or do they absorb all gases as long as its a mixture they're able to grow in? So could you filter chlorine gas into a room alongside the required gases and slowly destroy it using plants?

I don't know why but I just assumed they consumed they consumed co2 and omitted negligible oxygen.

EDIT: Checking the wiki states that plants require an optimal temperature and optimal air pressure; but doesn't mention an optimal air mixture? Does this mean plants can grow in any gas of sufficient pressure or is air pressure assumed to be oxygen pressure?

d3c0y2 fucked around with this message at Jul 17, 2017 around 21:50

temple
Jul 29, 2006



d3c0y2 posted:

Wait what Gases? Do they absorb oxygen, or just co2? Or do they absorb all gases as long as its a mixture they're able to grow in? So could you filter chlorine gas into a room alongside the required gases and slowly destroy it using plants?

I don't know why but I just assumed they consumed they consumed co2 and omitted negligible oxygen.

EDIT: Checking the wiki states that plants require an optimal temperature and optimal air pressure; but doesn't mention an optimal air mixture? Does this mean plants can grow in any gas of sufficient pressure or is air pressure assumed to be oxygen pressure?

Currently, I've filled a seal off farm with oxygen, CO2, and hydrogen. And the plants grow and all lower pressure with time.

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


temple posted:

Its coming out in a month.

Crazy.

temple
Jul 29, 2006



Finally got a natural gas set-up. Had limited space due to the vertical shaft and a 2nd geyser being close.

power
gas
liquid

REALLLY need to have separate pipes as much as possible. I needed to make 2 output lines for the air scrubbers because I was getting a lot of CO2. So 2 CO2 lines from the generators and 2 lines for the polluted water coming out of the scrubbers. I use a line for natural gas with individual branches for each generator and then a line for CO2 with branches for each. I tried to hide heavy watt wire as much as possible. The transformers at the bottom is so the heavy watt lines are just for producers. Dripping polluted water on the generators and fertilizer makers helps keep the machines around 40 degrees. Hot but not too hot. Everything is made of gold anyway.


game_changer.jpg


This loving guy. He consumes any polluted oxygen coming for the output line on the gas filter. Just a swell dude all round. I killed one on a previous map and lost 2, so I made sure to have a puft locked away for this purpose. I have another one to the left of the set-up.

Heavy watt wire runs

The ladder on the right runs heavy watt wire from my coal/hydrogen set-up to the the natural gas area. The wall keeps the wire hidden.


This is how I join them again for people curious. I can make a door on the right if I need to get into that section

temple fucked around with this message at Jul 18, 2017 around 06:36

Fat Samurai
Feb 16, 2011

To go quickly is foolish. To go slowly is prudent. Not to go; that is wisdom.


I've been reading the thread for a bit because I like base builders and now I'm scared with all the talking about pressure an chemical reactions.

Do you have to be an engineer to enjoy the game or is it like Factorio which looks like a unwieldy mess, but it's simple because it's your unwieldy mess.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Itís unintuitive sometimes, but thatís not because it requires knowledge of physics or anything so much as stuff beyond the very basics isnít well documented- you just have to build it and figure it out.

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


You actually need a Ph.D. in Physics to play this game.

temple
Jul 29, 2006



Fat Samurai posted:

I've been reading the thread for a bit because I like base builders and now I'm scared with all the talking about pressure an chemical reactions.

Do you have to be an engineer to enjoy the game or is it like Factorio which looks like a unwieldy mess, but it's simple because it's your unwieldy mess.
You don't need to know science. Its a simulation with toy physics so its fun to play around with fake chemical properties. There are no chemical reactions. At most states of matter will change. So if you understand gas, solid, liquid; you are mostly there.

The game is probably the best at slowly introducing you into the challenges. It really comes so easily. There are a lot of nerds that go out of there way to crunch numbers and run experiments, so the fun is trying to integrate new information into a base.

temple fucked around with this message at Jul 18, 2017 around 16:11

Lorini
Dec 27, 2006

Love my dawgs and love my games!

temple posted:

You don't need to know science. Its simulation with toy physics so its fun to play around with fake chemical properties. There are no chemical reactions. At most states of matter will change. So if you understand gas, solid, liquid; you are mostly there.


And there lies the problem for me, as the daughter of a chemist, I shamefully don't really understand gas, solid and liquid

temple
Jul 29, 2006





Dupes can jump over this.


And the game looks complex in retrospec. Different overlays seem technical but its pieced together little by little. Most people go for simple because it tends to be better and easier for dupes to build. The game gives so much information that can be ignored unless you want be

temple fucked around with this message at Jul 19, 2017 around 08:31

GenericOverusedName
Nov 24, 2009


Part of it right now is that as it is still in the early access alpha there is not a whole lot of content yet, so people are experimenting to see what crazy stuff they can make after they've done all the research and gotten to a fairly sustainable state. You don't need to have a crazy gas freezing setup, but that doesn't mean you can't make one.

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


The biggest issue right now is there are no external threats. No monster attacks, no natural disasters, no fires caused by short-circuiting wires, nothin'. So you can casually build stuff and as long as you get the basics down you're good. Doesn't exactly make for an exciting, challenging game.

temple
Jul 29, 2006



enraged_camel posted:

The biggest issue right now is there are no external threats. No monster attacks, no natural disasters, no fires caused by short-circuiting wires, nothin'. So you can casually build stuff and as long as you get the basics down you're good. Doesn't exactly make for an exciting, challenging game.
That stuff would be quantum shift in gameplay. No more 15 cycle research for one. No more small populations. I like the game as is. I would love it with periodic events to deal with. The cool thing about ONI isn't that you plop down buildings and make stuff. Its in the design of how you layout a base and how you deal with environmental problems. I hope they don't make buildings or mechanics too on/off. There is no one right way to do things and even if there was, each map is unique so you can't do it the same.

My bristle blossom farm. I want to try the reverse of cooling a hot area by heating a cold area. The cool challenge with bb is that you don't get many seeds so you have achieve excellent yields.

enraged_camel
Jul 4, 2007

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


temple posted:

That stuff would be quantum shift in gameplay. No more 15 cycle research for one. No more small populations. I like the game as is. I would love it with periodic events to deal with. The cool thing about ONI isn't that you plop down buildings and make stuff. Its in the design of how you layout a base and how you deal with environmental problems. I hope they don't make buildings or mechanics too on/off. There is no one right way to do things and even if there was, each map is unique so you can't do it the same.

My bristle blossom farm. I want to try the reverse of cooling a hot area by heating a cold area. The cool challenge with bb is that you don't get many seeds so you have achieve excellent yields.


Well, Don't Starve lets you turn things on/off in game options when setting up the game. So if they follow a similar approach with ONI, they can add, say, monster attacks, but let you turn them off if you want a more laid back experience.

I'm a fan of games that let you customize as many things as possible.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


They are getting rid of plant yields, so enjoy going for excellent yields while it lasts

temple
Jul 29, 2006



Dogen posted:

They are getting rid of plant yields, so enjoy going for excellent yields while it lasts
Yeah but they aren't getting rid of temperature requirements. I like yields because it rewards interacting with all game mechanics.

Finished bristle blossom farm. Had to add cooling instead of heat. Replanting seeds as the excellent yields come in. Wheezeworts+hydrogen help with cooling the thermo regularator because it will overheat. Its pretty cool now.

water
power (temp switch for above -3.5)
cooling

temple fucked around with this message at Jul 20, 2017 around 12:55

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


temple posted:

Yeah but they aren't getting rid of temperature requirements. I like yields because it rewards interacting with all game mechanics.

Right, you're just going to have to have all 4 reqs to get any yield. It is fun though, I spent a lot of time tinkering with my stupid mealwood farm to always get excellent yields. Pointless to try with sleet wheat because you get so drat much and it's both food product and seed in one.

temple
Jul 29, 2006



Dogen posted:

Right, you're just going to have to have all 4 reqs to get any yield. It is fun though, I spent a lot of time tinkering with my stupid mealwood farm to always get excellent yields. Pointless to try with sleet wheat because you get so drat much and it's both food product and seed in one.

Someone said "the best way to get excellent yield with sleet wheat is to make 2 more planter boxes".

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Seriously, who wants to deal with frozen pipes

temple
Jul 29, 2006



Been meaning to get a shot of this. Pro-tip: let water or polluted water drip in the cold biome and it will freeze on the way down. This avoid the issue of having polluted water dripping everywhere and giving dupes hypothermia. Mesh tiles are your friend A few people like to build at the top of the cold biome to avoid polluted water from melting on top of them. There are a lot of reasons to build on the top of a cold biome.



Bristle blossom farm was a success



I tried a steam purification system that kinda worked but it wasn't consistent. Going for pincha pepper farm next

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Whereís all that polluted water coming from?

temple
Jul 29, 2006



Dogen posted:

Whereís all that polluted water coming from?

Polluted ice melting. It melts sooner than regular ice.

Dogen
May 5, 2002

Bury my body down by the highwayside, so that my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride


Oh, yeah. The floor in my sleet wheat farm (ice biome) is mesh or otherwise artfully arranged to direct meltwater to the bottom of that area.

Iím really anxious for the new update to come out, I barely check in on my dupes anymore and I donít have the heart to start a new colony.

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temple
Jul 29, 2006



The polluted water became an ice tile at the bottom of my biome.

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