|
Some people on the ONI forums seem to think that transformers can output more than 1kw if you have a battery hooked up to the output side... nah, I've tried that and it definitely does not work. Maybe a few versions ago?
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2018 14:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 11:28 |
|
|
Batteries to my knowledge don't have a maximum drain, so if you've got 20kW of draw on a circuit, the battery will happily put out 20kW and fry all your wires. You can put a battery after a single transformer if there's never going to be more than 2kW of draw maximum and less than 1kW on average. If you want to run the circuit at 100% of capacity all day long, it needs two transformers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2018 14:07
|
|
|
Ambaire posted:Some people on the ONI forums seem to think that transformers can output more than 1kw if you have a battery hooked up to the output side... nah, I've tried that and it definitely does not work. Maybe a few versions ago? The transformer can only output 1kw. They're seeing that behavior because a battery can have a higher output than the thing that charged it up did. For example, set up 1kw of generating capacity, and don't connect anything to it except a bunch of batteries. When the batteries are full, add something that draws 2kw to that circuit. Even though you only have 1kw of power capacity, you'll actually be able to power that machine (for a little while, at least), because the batteries will happily output as much electricity as demand requires. Same thing happens in the transformer-to-battery situation. When draw is less than 1kw, extra power goes into the battery. When draw is more than 1kw, the battery "helpfully" contributes its extra juice to make up for what the transformer's output can't cover.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2018 14:41
|
|
|
1337JiveTurkey posted:Exactly what Sage Grimm said. Transformers are a 1 way bridge that takes 1kW from the high connection and outputs 1kW on the low connection. The low resistance wires that appear later can take 2kW before getting damaged. So to actually use those wires to their potential you need two transformers connecting to the same wire to move 2kW. Generally the high connections will connect to the same heaviwatt wire and all the generators will connect to the heaviwatt wire. This can all be hidden away since it's murder on the environment score for the local area. First, thanks everyone for the responses. Thing is though I research the ability to use Conductive Wire as soon as possible, which supports 2K on each circuit. I use coal generators outside the base to provide electricity to where I want it. I do extensive exploration to find coal so that I can do this. Given that, "The low resistance wires that appear later can take 2kW before getting damaged." I don't see any advantage? Look y'all I'm probably just stupid. Edit: I just read the previous response. Sounds like the transformers let the batteries smooth out the electrical draw?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2018 15:16
|
|
|
A heaviwatt network lets you throw in 20kW of centralized fun and take off 1kW at a time with transformers. If you've got a build order that gets you refined metal quickly and have designs that work on their own generator-consumer 2kW circuit then yeah, you can probably ignore it. Otherwise you can decentralize and use whichever power source is located wherever to power 20kW of stuff on a shared circuit.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2018 15:26
|
|
|
Lorini posted:First, thanks everyone for the responses. Thing is though I research the ability to use Conductive Wire as soon as possible, which supports 2K on each circuit. I use coal generators outside the base to provide electricity to where I want it. I do extensive exploration to find coal so that I can do this. Normal wire can draw a 1kW load before starting to take damage. Conductive wire can draw 2kW. Heavi/Insulated wire can draw more like 20kw. Obviously that means you want to run the industrial wire everywhere, right? Only if you do that it's A) expensive and B) Ugly as gently caress which stresses out your dupes. Oh and C) doesn't fit in walls so it has to stick out everwhere. What do you do? You mainly run the industrial wire in the industrial zones, near power plants or heavy machinery, and then run the smaller wires over in the residential/living zones or just where it would be a pain to run joint plates everywhere. Ah but here's the rub: your entire wire network can only take the load of the smallest wire on it. Have a single piece of normal wire in that mess and every piece of industrial wire risks starting to overheat and damaging itself. You need a buffer between your industrial heavy wires and the smaller stuff. That's what the transformer is. The transformer can let up to 1Kw through. So the smaller wires on the output see the small amount of wattage they need to run lights, powered doors, barbecue grills, etc. Meanwhile the big industial wire sees everything that's pulling from the transformer as a single load.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2018 15:33
|
|
|
THANKS! Now I get it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2018 16:05
|
|
|
This game needs a tutorial, something to explain how all the various things work.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2018 08:44
|
|
|
Welp, the new version broke my base in various ways, so here's another large screenshot nobody asked for: There are a lot of ways that help keeping your base cool; I made sure the oxygen from electrolyzers was piped through a cold room filled with wheezewort and hydrogen before it reached the rest of the base. The water used for farming came from recycled pisswater; if you don't need it immediately you don't have to boil it since the bacteria eventually die out in clean water on its own. Water sieves always output water at 40ºC, so if you've got two aquatuners in your pisswater then it'll end up at 12ºC, which is perfect for bristle blossoms.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2018 11:01
|
|
|
EvilElmo posted:This game needs a tutorial, something to explain how all the various things work. Gonna work on a Steam guide and an accompanying video this weekend. It'll cover the first 50 cycles and how to get started. It's going to be using the simple game, because as any engineer can tell you (I worked for JPL for nearly 30 years and am the daughter of a chemist) the first thing you do when you are having trouble is simplify. I'll link to it later this weekend. The video is not a promise though as I'm brand new to videos.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2018 13:33
|
|
|
Here is a thorough early guide for ONI. I'm still going to do mine but it will be shorter and probably refer to this one.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2018 15:10
|
|
|
Do you need/want some pictures from my game to show off some wiring examples since it took you a bit to figure out transformers? My current game (post the latest release) is in the middle of setting up some serious wiring.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2018 23:01
|
|
|
Sure although my guide won't go that far. What I'm seeing here and on reddit are people who can't even keep their dupes fed/oxygenated and my guide will be focused on the very early part of the game. So here's the outline Easy Peasy way of getting started in Oxygen Not Included Dupes: Do not take mouth breathers, irritable bowel, flatulent, narcoleptic, small bladder or anemic dupes to start. You want efficient dupes. You can take some of the others later, but really don't ever take a flatulent or anemic dupe. Main skill you want is Learning for at least one, and it should be at 4+. That dupe will be your researcher. The others should have some mix of construction, digging, and farming at 3+ to start. Start with a custom game, no stress or germs Toilets. You need two because they will go down from time to time Your first aim is to get power set up and then a research station Next is research and the job board. (I know some people run jobless for awhile but if someone is having trouble, they probably are better off with dupes with a dedicated priority). Assign jobs depending on skill level, not on interest unless they work together. Farming and then Coal after that While you are doing all this other stuff always be digging. Because of the way gases are handled, you need to set up areas that will oxygenate 'naturally'. Dig both down and up and be sure to dig copper and coal. Farming: Mealwood to start and then bristle blossoms. You'll really want plumbing for the liquid pump and interior decor for the floor lamps for the bristle blossoms. Be sure to look at the growth requirements, especially note that plants will not grow in heat. You want to research the entire left side of the research tree except ventilation and you'll want to get to the third tier of farming for the hydroponic tiles, which you will use for the bristile blossoms. For oxygen, if you dig properly you should only need one Algae deodorizer. If you really want you can use an Algae terrarium but it uses water which is not great for long term colony health. After the initial research, research the water sieve and sanitation to eliminate need for toilets. ***************** So that's about it. The aim is for someone to be able to get to having their dupes fed and watered so they then can either keep going with that colony or start a new colony with everything turned on and still be able to keep going. If you can't do these things then there's no need to discuss transformers cuz you'll never get there  e: added anemic to bad dupes. Mayveena fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Jun 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2018 23:25
|
|
|
Lorini posted:Dupes: Do not take mouth breathers, irritable bowel, flatulent, narcoleptic, small bladder dupes to start. You want efficient dupes. You can take some of the others later, but really don't ever take a flatulent dupe. Main skill you want is Learning for at least one, and it should be at 4+. That dupe will be your researcher. The others should have some mix of construction, digging, and farming at 3+ to start. And I really don't think that starting a custom game with those settings is necessary, but still a good idea to make sure people know the options are there. quote:Toilets. You need two because they will go down from time to time quote:Farming: Mealwood to start and then bristle blossoms. You'll really want plumbing for the liquid pump and interior decor for the floor lamps for the bristle blossoms. Be sure to look at the growth requirements, especially note that plants will not grow in heat. You can also use the natural light of the Printing Pod to make a sort of early Bristle garden to supplement your mealwood: just shove some farm plots next to the pod and it produces enough light for 5 Bristle plants (two on the left once you remove/move the starting food lockbox, three on the right). I tend to keep these around since Bristleberries are also a source of positive decor. quote:For oxygen, if you dig properly you should only need one Algae deodorizer. If you really want you can use an Algae terrarium but it uses water which is not great for long term colony health. You mean Algae Oxidizer instead of deodorizer, right? Also terrariums are useful to have 1-2 of in your CO2 pits because they don't just create oxygen, if CO2 is available they consume it as well. Anyways, for power stuff here's my starting power-plant:  And in power view:  You can't see it but there's an automation cable connecting the smart battery to the generators making sure they turn off and saving power/heat. The batteries are shoved into their little closets for two reasons: to contain both the "ugly" and the heat they spread (not necessarily needed but batteries generate heat when outputting what they have stored). The Heavi wires are sent through walls and into areas where dupes really don't path for the same reason: they have a decor value of -25 with a whopping 6 radius. The upgraded stuff has only a -20 and radius of 4 when you get it. To the left of the cistern you can see the transformer providing power to the smaller lines that feed the pump in the cistern as well as the newly created kitchen. While leading the wire to the pump would have been trivial other than the 100kg/metal per tile, powering the kitchen that way would have just been ugly and expensive and totally overkill.  The power grid by my current research station/shittery. By sending the wires through the cistern I make the base ugly where no one cares. I also block off visual access with airlocks to stop the spread of ugly. Normal airlocks are used for places I might want maintenance access but aren't pathways. Powered airlocks are for dupe paths of travel to keep dupe movement speed relatively quick.  You can go for a surprisingly long amount of time using small stations like this. Just a hamster wheel and a battery or two depending on your preferences or what sort of machinery/power load is connected. Obviously this hamster wheel is slated to be replaced soon.  Finally an example of how ugly industrial cabling is. Your industrial areas are obviously goign to be horrible looking hellholes, but there's a painfully obvious reason why you don't want to be running industrial power cables through mess halls or bedrooms.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2018 01:01
|
|
|
Yes as mentioned, that was an outline. The whole article will be bigger. Unless you are in sandbox or debug mode you can't start with automation wire .Remember this is addressed toward people who can't even get food going without their dupes starving to death, so adding stress/germs to that situation is just going to make things worse. I will certainly encourage them to move on to the full game once they have the basics mastered.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2018 01:12
|
|
|
Am I the only one who just skips rock crusher and goes straight for the smelter? The one annoying thing in the early mid-game is raw metal, since you're scaling up your industry but probably don't have a hundred tons of it yet, so having to use twice as much on refined metal sucks.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2018 02:05
|
|
|
Lorini posted:Yes as mentioned, that was an outline. The whole article will be bigger. You only need the first automation research for the wire, then brute force refinement for the crusher, even if you do lose 50% of the metal using it. Anyways, was mainly just giving your notes some further suggestions and such, I was pretty sure it was an outline, just giving a few hints/tips of my own. Also, the power pictures were as much because you seemed lost on how to do the power stuff as for any other reason. Truga posted:Am I the only one who just skips rock crusher and goes straight for the smelter? The one annoying thing in the early mid-game is raw metal, since you're scaling up your industry but probably don't have a hundred tons of it yet, so having to use twice as much on refined metal sucks. I use it for a few early things but I'm really all for setting up a Smelter as soon as I can for sexy, sexy 100% refined metal return. Though some people do like ranching since smooth Hatches refine metal with an 85% return/efficiency but a lot less heat.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2018 02:14
|
|
|
I would think a guide called Easy Peasy wouldn't include automation? I use it for sure, but really that seems like a small detail for someone who can't feed their dupes. Last time I tried to use the smelter it was a mess. I should try it again though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2018 03:22
|
|
|
Truga posted:Am I the only one who just skips rock crusher and goes straight for the smelter? The one annoying thing in the early mid-game is raw metal, since you're scaling up your industry but probably don't have a hundred tons of it yet, so having to use twice as much on refined metal sucks. I use rock crusher to make enough refined metal for my first smart battery, automation wire it to the generators and conducive wire it to a nearby refinery. Then I deconstruct it and use the refinery from there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2018 03:24
|
|
|
Alkydere posted:Anyways, for power stuff here's my starting power-plant: This doesn't seem like an efficient design. You are spending shitloads of metal running heavi wires all over the base, and also running them through your clean water, which will cause it to heat up over time, causing your plants to overheat and stop growing. You are much better off keeping your batteries and power transformers tucked together inside one room (insulated, and later cooled using hydrogen and wheezeworts) and running regular wires over your base, which cost only a quarter of the metal and can be run through tiles.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2018 15:26
|
|
|
OK here's a first draft. Let me know what you think folks https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_W09ftcvI-Pt8nXtkYWc9JcnpmiLbyijqO8Tx05eOe8/edit?usp=sharing
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2018 17:07
|
|
|
A few recommendations:
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2018 06:00
|
|
|
Thanks! One thing, if you don't dig, the pressure in your base will rise to the point where you can't produce oxygen and the carbon dioxide that your dupes make won't move, so really you need to dig. Digging spaces for carbon dioxide to go helps with minimizing the need for Algae Deodorizers and Electrolyzers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2018 16:22
|
|
|
In my new game, after digging straight up around cycle 15 or so just to breach the asteroid, I came upon my first and only geyser I've found: A leaky oil fissure. Great. I've always dealt with Natural Gas as my main energy source, and I've yet to mess with plastics. Now I have to learn the oil -> petroleum -> petroleum generator setup, and how to deal with all of the stuff it puts out.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2018 19:37
|
|
|
Lorini posted:Thanks! One thing, if you don't dig, the pressure in your base will rise to the point where you can't produce oxygen and the carbon dioxide that your dupes make won't move, so really you need to dig. Digging spaces for carbon dioxide to go helps with minimizing the need for Algae Deodorizers and Electrolyzers. Nah, you can use carbon skimmers to cleanly remove carbon dioxide from the air. No need to dig. That said, CO2 is valuable for certain things, such as shroom farms. Here's mine:  Dusk caps are great because they require no water or light source. You can easily set up a farm using the CO2 exhaust of your fossil fuel generators. They just consume 4 kg slime every cycle which is nothing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2018 19:50
|
|
|
Remember this is for the player who can't even get food going. Carbon skimmers are certainly usable but digging is easier. Also I use the dug out areas that are full of carbon dioxide for shrooms as well, which this start doesn't address. Thanks for the input, I'm considering all the comments.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2018 20:34
|
|
|
I think explicitly digging a CO2 pit is fine and helps concentrate the gas into one place if there's no openings near the bottom. The same goes for digging headspace for hydrogen, but I think that it's best to start strategic with the digging.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2018 00:15
|
|
|
Yeah, mushrooms own. I just wish they had a higher food quality option, something like shroom omlette.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2018 08:20
|
|
|
I've found that if you spam enough decor you can mostly ignore food quality, I'm at cycle 100 or so and still living off of a large mealwood/bristle farm, I should probably at the very least make a kitchen for lice loaf or something, I dunno. I'm getting into the territory of using smart batteries to automate when to turn on/off power production and I'm trying to figure out how the power is distributed to the batteries and in which order, I'm thinking one smart battery would be good enough for this toggling and the rest of the power would be sent to regular batteries which hold twice as much power (not to mention smart batteries are expensive). Fano fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Jun 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2018 17:47
|
|
|
Rambling post incoming. I keep getting chaos explosions about day 150-ish and think I need to rethink basic stuff. After you get a basic colony going (toilets, beds, research, enough farms to support 5-6 people), what do people generally recommend as the first (or first few) major “expansions”? Above all, my playing experience tells me clean (cool) water is the most precious commodity. So I think planting a lot of bristle blossoms earlyish could be a mistake. On the other hand, I’ve run out of dirt eventually for mealwood. Mushrooms seem to give a lot of food, but have a long growing period. Coal generators don’t seem necessary until you start adding stuff past the basic setup. Do people usually just plop down one semi-temporarily to save labor? Wait until you get smart batteries? Wait until you find an ice biome to pre-emptively handle the excess heat (at the cost of increased wiring cost/complexity) that eventually pops up? Also do people tend to group generators and run a central bus, or have them spread and just use different circuits? Heat spread vs. wire cost, I guess. The water pool - pump - lavatory/sink - water sieve - vent in (same) water pool loop seems to be pretty much a self-sustaining loop that gives extra germ killing (and comfort?) at the cost of power and sand. As far as I can tell, the lavatories and sinks don’t care about water temperature. Worth it early-ish, or a later luxury? Anyone semi-rush exosuits to just not worry about exploring? Makes things a lot easier, but you need a significant amount of refined metal. And you need to find some of those reeds. Algae eventually becomes scarce, do people generally set up distillers early, or use your earlier slime for growing mushrooms? Not that slime seems scarce. I guess I’m just looking for “second step” suggestions.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2018 22:22
|
|
|
Lately my favorite option for post algae oxygen is morbs, dig out a latrine under a ice biome and have dupes use outhouses there but never clean them. They will continue to spawn morbs that will eat whatever air is around them(so pump in whatever junk gasses you have) and turn it into polluted oxygen, let that polluted oxygen go into the ice biome where the germs all die due to the cold then clean the air and pump it out.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2018 22:55
|
|
|
Don't forget a co2 layer on the morbs so they produce forever and end up overpressurizing the area to 10kg per tile or more.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2018 22:59
|
|
|
socialsecurity posted:Lately my favorite option for post algae oxygen is morbs, dig out a latrine under a ice biome and have dupes use outhouses there but never clean them. They will continue to spawn morbs that will eat whatever air is around them(so pump in whatever junk gasses you have) and turn it into polluted oxygen, let that polluted oxygen go into the ice biome where the germs all die due to the cold then clean the air and pump it out. Doesn’t that waste a whole lot of dupe time traveling to and from the outhouses? Or do they only need to use it a couple of times?
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2018 23:17
|
|
|
WithoutTheFezOn posted:I keep getting chaos explosions about day 150-ish and think I need to rethink basic stuff. After you get a basic colony going (toilets, beds, research, enough farms to support 5-6 people), what do people generally recommend as the first (or first few) major “expansions”? I always expand into a slime biome. Doing so yields three things:
You also get a ton of slime, which you can convert into algae for your oxygen-making machines and also use as fertilizer for your mushrooms. You just need to be cognizant of slimelung and monitor dupe immunities closely via the vitals panel. quote:Above all, my playing experience tells me clean (cool) water is the most precious commodity. So I think planting a lot of bristle blossoms earlyish could be a mistake. On the other hand, I’ve run out of dirt eventually for mealwood. Mushrooms seem to give a lot of food, but have a long growing period. Dusk caps yield far more calories than bristle blossoms. Each dusk cap takes 7.5 days to grow and its yield has 2400 calories. Requires a CO2 atmosphere (trivial) and slime (abundant). In contrast, bristle blossom takes 6 days to grow and its yield has 1600 calories. Requires hydroponic tiles (i.e. metal), water and a light source. You do the math. But it's obvious: dusk caps are far superior. (Note: both dusk caps and bristle blossoms can have double the growth rate if you have a farm station.) Here's my setup:  Six dusk caps and five bristle blossoms are more than sufficient to feed 6 dupes. I actually had more plants but I uprooted some of them because I was producing too much food. quote:Coal generators don’t seem necessary until you start adding stuff past the basic setup. Do people usually just plop down one semi-temporarily to save labor? Wait until you get smart batteries? Wait until you find an ice biome to pre-emptively handle the excess heat (at the cost of increased wiring cost/complexity) that eventually pops up? I wait until I can build a simple automation setup with a smart battery before building a coal generator. The whole thing requires ~300 refined metal, trivial to make using the rock granulator (takes 600 metal ore). Heat isn't an issue if you properly insulate the walls of your generator and battery rooms. quote:Algae eventually becomes scarce, do people generally set up distillers early, or use your earlier slime for growing mushrooms? Not that slime seems scarce. I try to graduate from algae as quickly as possible using electrolyzers, but that kind of depends on how much fresh water you have in your colony. But yes, in most games deoxydizers can take you a long way since algae tends to be fairly abundant and also easy to make.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2018 02:58
|
|
|
Thanks for that. The output of a water sieve is non-polluted water with food poisoning germs in it. If I feed that into an electrolyzer, the wiki says the oxygen produced will have those germs in it. But do those germs die quickly enough to not be a problem, or do I have to essentially boil the water first?
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2018 05:10
|
|
|
If you'd like to watch a dude setup a colony from scratch in the latest Cosmic Upgrade, this is a nice stream. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi0cwWoJQNQ He gets through the first 25 cycles and sets up a mealwood farm, sleeping quarters, CO2 well, and keeps a handle on heat and stress. Dupes can jump a one tile gap which is why you see folks build ladders in the middle of two empty tiles. Down the road, it gives you plenty of room to add piping and ventilation. Plus, gas moves more easily through your base that way. One of the new, annoying changes is that compost heaps drop 70 degree piles of dirt that can superheat your base if you don't get them cleaned up and cooled right away. Having a storage container underwater set for dirt to store these toasty dirtballs can help.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2018 06:14
|
|
|
WithoutTheFezOn posted:Thanks for that. I'm pretty sure food poisoning germs can't infect dupes unless they eat contaminated food - airborne food poisoning is harmless. Just keep the infected water away from your food.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2018 06:29
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:I wait until I can build a simple automation setup with a smart battery before building a coal generator. The whole thing requires ~300 refined metal, trivial to make using the rock granulator (takes 600 metal ore). It's been a while since I played, but I thought the Coal Generator had a built-in function to shut off when batteries were above a set percentage. Did that get removed?
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2018 13:26
|
|
|
The built in function is for when a dupe operate job is made to refuel, not turning it off or on. It'll happily burn away until you or a smart battery tell it to turn off.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2018 13:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 11:28 |
|
|
zedprime posted:The built in function is for when a dupe operate job is made to refuel, not turning it off or on. It'll happily burn away until you or a smart battery tell it to turn off. Ah ok. I'll probably start playing soon because this was the exact upgrade I've been waiting for. The ranching upgrade wasn't my cup of tea, but this looks fantastic.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2018 13:40
|
|