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  • Locked thread
PainterofCrap
Oct 17, 2002

hey bebe


This issue has not been resolved so a new thread it is.

Note: the car DOES NOT have a remote start system

History:
In January, I acquired an ‘01 Dodge Intrepid that was maintained to death by the original owner, my best friend’s (since 1982) father (a retired engineer). Even though it has a 2.7 it runs perfectly. He clearly observed the maintenance schedule religiously and used synthetic oil. He must have replaced the water pump & dodged (heh) the coolant-in-oil issue that also kills the 2.7, because it has 133,000 miles on it. It was garage kept. & dealer-serviced. It’s unmolested.

He sold it to me because he & his wife, now in their 80s, moved up from Tennessee to be near their kid; they no longer have room for 2-cars, and have a year-old Civic. On the way here, he hit barrels in a construction zone at high speed (and some kind of opening in the road) which wiped out the left front wheel, the bumper cover, hood, left front fender, headlight assembly & windshield wiper bottle/motor, and dinged up both driver’s side doors. At 86, I don’t know how much more driving he’ll be doing.

I bought it for $200, because my buddy had no place to put it, the COA was starting to make noises about this disreputable-looking car in the neighborhood, and he was going to junk it.



Even after all that, the car ran flawlessly & tracked straight. It smoked like hell and had a blow-back issue; I tackled these before acquiring any body parts. The former was due to fossilized valve-cover gaskets (oh what a joy to replace those, on the 2.7) leaking onto both cats. The latter was a dissolved hose which blocked the PCV. Repairs solved both issues.



I acquired all of the necessary body panels for another $250 at various salvage yards. I saved the bumper cover with a heat gun.



Once they were all installed, my son drove the car daily for a month, with no problems whatsoever. The car is rock-solid & silky-smooth. It sailed through state inspection.

Last weekend, I refurbed & installed a passenger door. Aside from wiring up the washer motor, this was the first electric thing I did to the car.





The second electric thing was to replace the power mirror switch in the driver's door. The one I bought is somehow wrong - all of the controls are reversed - but it does work. That will get sorted after I deal with this. If I can.

I then moved on to removing the obsolete & never-to-be-used-again aftermarket Sony CD changer, which involved pulling the console cover over the shifter (to get to the radio console). I could not remove it entirely due to how the shift lever & its leather boot are installed, so I popped the cover lifted it up over the shift knob, and rotated it 90-degrees to get to the radio console cover & radio screws. This did involve occasionally keying it into IGN to move the shifter back & forth to get at screws, etc.

Note: the door replacement, mirror-switch & CD changer removal were all done over Saturday & Sunday, and the car was not started until all three things were done.

After an uneventful reassembly, I found that the battery was nearly dead (clicked on trying to start, but had enough juice for lights). I knew the battery was weak when I got the car - was going to change it out in the spring. Deciding to charge the battery, I found I could not remove the key from the ignition. I eventually figured out that my method of removing the shift console caused the leather boot to bunch up in a way that prevented the lever from being completely seated in Park. However, that knowledge came later. I eventually wrestled the shifter fully into Park & got the key out of the ignition, set up the charger & left it alone for 4-hours.

On return, I entered the car & it started right up. I shut it off, and couldn’t get the key out. After about a half hour, I sorted the console issue, and the key/ignition block behaved normally. I removed the key, removed the battery charger & put it away, and left the car.

About an hour later, after sunset, I happened to look out my kitchen window & noticed that instrument panel lights were on - as though the car were running. I found the odometer and shift indicator displays were lit; the airbag light was lit; when I opened the door, the door open indicator lit. The car was shut off with no key in it.

Puzzled, I got the key, and started the car, and then shut it off, and removed the key.

This is when I went down the rabbit hole - the engine kept running. All of the peripherals (radio, heat, etc) went off, but the odo & shift displays stayed lit. I cycled the key back & forth, and removed it – no change. There was no way to turn off the engine. The check engine light came on. WTF.

Stupified by this development, I pondered what to do next. Within 20-seconds, the engine began to run rough, stumble, then died. Oil light then came on. I started it again, (oil light went off), let it settle into idle, then cycled the ignition off, and removed the key; repeat: ran, stumbled & died within 20-seconds.

I was able to pull a code from my OBDII reader, which indicated an issue with the evap system in the fuel tank. The reader died permanently after I tried to delete this code. It said that the code could not be deleted (which is the first time I have ever seen that happen with this reader, an old AutoRay 6000). I have since ordered a new reader. If it will help, I will post the actual code if this is not resolved before then. The car had never thrown a code before.

Totally confused, I searched online & initially found that there is a cutoff relay that, if removed, kills the engine (ASD relay). Started the car, shut off the ignition, pulled they key, got out before the motor died in its own; pulled the relay, and it did. However, odo & shift indicators stayed on. The only way to turn them off is to pull the battery cables.


Over the course of the past week: this is the advice I have received, my actions, and results:

-- Disconnect the battery, wait ˝-hour:

Tried this several times, even overnight. No change.
Note: There was a lot of sparking when I reconnected the neg battery line - as if there was something drawing a fair bit of current - and I could also hear a faint, anemic buzzy whining that stopped & started depending on whether or not the battery was connected. I have since isolated that noise to the circuit for the O2 sensor – pulling that fuse stops the noise. I was told that the buzzing may be the EGR solenoid. When I plug the fuse back in, there is no buzzing, but there is a rapid clicking from within the plenum. I can’t isolate it any closer than that.


-- Bad ASD relay: this controls shutting off the engine.

I swapped it with another one – no change. Put a new one in: no change.


-- Corrosion in the Jones plug under the back seat for the harness wiring to the gas tank and evap system: this apparently can cause a weird voltage spike that sends a bad signal to the ECU/ASD and somehow creates this on-running problem.

Pulled the bench, found the plug & contacts factory-fresh pristine. Even so, I gave the flat contacts a light pass with a point file. I later sprayed the contacts in both plug ends with electronic cleaner. No change.


-- You did something to the shift mechanism by forcing it into Park/improperly disassembling the console, removing the CD changer, etc.

The only forcing I did compressed bunched-up boot leather against the front of the shift-lever slot to get it to drop fully into Park. The actual shift mechanism is fine. Even so, I went back yesterday & properly disassembled the shift knob, boot & console, and checked the wiring there, as well as the lock-out cable and the shifting mechanism. They’re fine. The shifter operates through all ranges normally, The dash indicator lights appropriately, The car will not start unless it is in PARK. The key cannot be removed unless it is in PARK.

The CD changer was mounted in the trunk. I left the power wire abandoned in place – it was spliced into the radio power feed with an inline fuse at the splice, then run under the carpet to the boot. It had a small female plug hanging in space, not shorting on anything. The only wire I cut was for the control head – to get it out of the tray. The unit worked with an antenna modulator, which I removed. It took all of an uneventful ten minutes to pull the radio, remove the modulator & head lead, and reinstall the radio & console face.


-- Ignition switch is bad.

Replaced the ignition switch. No change.


-- Sometimes, the headlamp switch can go bad, causing some kind of issues, possibly this one amongst them.

Pulled the headlamp plug and cycled the engine. No change.


Last night, I took the car out for a half-hour drive in mixed conditions: highway, residential, sitting idling. The car operates flawlessly. You would never know that there was a problem – until the ignition is shut off & the key removed. For the time being, the car can be used, one just has to remember to disconnect the battery every time it’s going to be left for more than an hour or so, or the battery will drain down. This is clearly not an acceptable situation, but it is the current state of things. Fortunately, I repaired my other car, a ‘99 Accord, and my son is using that one, I have a company car.

My very first thought at the time, when I recovered my senses, was that I somehow porked the ECU when I charged it. This car has never had a day’s trouble, and no issues since I bought it two months ago. It’s been boringly dependable.

However, it has no issues that would indicate an ECU. The kind folks over at Intrepid.net are somewhat annoyed by my harping about the ECU…but this all started when I charged a nearly-dead battery. Occam's razor, etc.

I have to proceed under the assumption that this is a coincidence, and that there is some kind of short.

Last night, I pulled the Jones plug for the door I installed, just in case. No effect. I have not pulled the mirror switch yet. Both the door & mirror having anything to do with this feels like a stretch - but I'm slowly undoing everything I did since the car last ran properly.

The latest suggestion was that the wiring harnesses between the underhood power center and the engine/firewall (there are two separate harnesses, both connected to the power center with these honkin’ big Jones plugs, both on the driver's side) have been heat-damaged over the years by their proximity to the Cat on that side (there are two catalytic converters, one on each exhaust manifold, under the hood).



My next step is to unwrap these and see if there’s a short which is causing the constant-voltage condition.

Past this, I’m out of ideas. I may just junk it at this point. I'm about $1000.00 into it, including the purchase price & registration.

PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Mar 5, 2017

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a dingus
Mar 22, 2008

Rhetorical questions only
Fun Shoe
I had a 2001 Dodge Stratus and it was the worst car imaginable. Fixing that this is a Sisyphean task I considered junking it a blessing.

Seat Safety Switch
May 27, 2008

MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.

Pillbug
I know you said there's no remote start system, but is there an alarm?

Are there harness bundles that run through the fender that would have gotten frayed or otherwise damaged in the crash? It's amazing how much some rusty, jagged metal can affect a harness, especially on domestics where the stamped-steel takes shortcuts and results in sharp edges where the cabling passes through.

I think checking the 'underhood power centre' harness bundle is a good start. You should be able to multi those pins (with a shitload of jumper wire) once you can reproduce the no-die condition.

I agree with you about the working assumption that you're shorting from a constant-voltage wire to the same wire the ignition switch actuates, so that when you turn the key off and remove it, it doesn't really matter. That is, unless the ECU works like in modern GM trucks where the ignition switch just tells the ECU "hey I'm starting here" and the ECU takes care of running the starter and actuating the PDM to keep switched power going to the engine.

From my brief googling it sounds like the ASD relay you mentioned replacing is engaged by the PDM to provide this power, and you know that the relay works since the car is running. Perhaps a test light on that relay drive pin and everything upstream of that relay might help shed some light. It is probably staying actuated during this run condition, otherwise you would die, so at least you can eliminate anything downstream of the relay.

That said, when you gently caress up an ECU I would imagine it would tend to stay in the "I'm hosed" condition instead of the "car is running great" condition. If the ECU is easily accessible it might not be a bad idea to open it up and look for physical damage like blown caps but it's really hard to detect, say, a grenaded surface-mount fet that way. My money is on physical damage to the loom incurred during the accident, possibly made worse by rust blossoms forming on the exposed wiring from moisture/vibration.

Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Mar 2, 2017

Adiabatic
Nov 18, 2007

What have you assholes done now?
What you're going to need to do is isolate the issue to a particular area with a multimeter.

Repeat the issue, have it continue to run, and then backprobe wires between the ignition and the ECU that should currently be dead. If they have voltage, you then backprobe them further upstream or downstream until you find the shorted component or wirre.

If anyone has a link to the engine control wiring diagrams and ECU pinouts for this guy, that would be extremely helpful. We can then create a task list for discovery purposes.

Ninja edit: SSSwitch is correct in asking you for a list of ANY aftermarket components first.

Adiabatic
Nov 18, 2007

What have you assholes done now?
E: I lied, found this:

http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/manuals/02lhe/02lhe.pdf

Compiling some initial checks, give me a few.

Adiabatic fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Mar 2, 2017

Adiabatic
Nov 18, 2007

What have you assholes done now?
Ok first test:

Head to the Power Distribution Center (PDC/fuse block).



Start the car, reproduce the issue of the key out ignition still on, and test fuses N, S, T, and W for voltage. Tell us which has an appreciable voltage differential to ground.

Second test:

Take the ignition switch back out so you can backprobe the wires leading into it.



Start the car, reproduce the issue of the key out ignition still on, and backprobe the following wires, telling us which has voltage differential to ground:

Dark green with red stripe (pin 1)
Light blue (pin 2)
Dark blue with white stripe (pin 4)
Black with white stripe (pin 6)
Black with orange stripe (pin 10)

Also probe the terminals of fuses G and J in the PDC.

e: again, SSSwitch is on the right track with the connections to the ASD relay. You say it kills the motor if you pull it, and the wiring diagram shows it's hot until the Dark Blue / Yellow wire from the PCM de-energizes.

SSSwitch and I are talking in slack, and he seems to think the Dark Blue / Yellow wire going between the PCM and ASD Relay has a short. I agree with him, based on what you've given us so far.

Adiabatic fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Mar 2, 2017

Adiabatic
Nov 18, 2007

What have you assholes done now?
gently caress all the other test poo poo, check if the Dark Blue with Yellow Stripe wire coming from the ASD relay is energized when the problem occurs.

The PCM terminus for this wire is connection C3, shown here:



Its color is indicated as "NAT" which I assume means natural? Beige?

If that's energized, it's either shorted between the ASD Relay and the PCM, or your PCM is shorted internally on that pin.

PainterofCrap
Oct 17, 2002

hey bebe


OK, I am really weak in this area (electronics) so bear with me.

The ASD relay wiring is not visible unless I crack open the power center. I'm looking for a dark blue/yellow stripe wire that feeds into the ASD plug bay?

And that the downstream location at the PCM is "nat?"

I just got off the road and won't be able to look at this until tomorrow.

In addition to following your most excellent advice, I'll likely open up the two bundles that run along the right valve cover. I recalled today as I was turning all of this over in my head, that I had a real bitch of a time getting the right valve cover off because one of those harnesses wrapped tightly around the back of the cover and that I literally had to pry it away with my enormous Craftsman bladed Walking Dead screwdriver to create enough slack to free the cover...you can see the harness at the back of the head in the engine photo. I'm now wondering if I stressed some brittle insulation in that vicinity.

Of course, why the gently caress it would show up when it did will remain a mystery.

Thank you all for you time and expertise. I now know that, when I aim to retire, my ride will be pre-1985. God, how I hate this computer/sensor poo poo.

PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Mar 4, 2017

PainterofCrap
Oct 17, 2002

hey bebe


Seat Safety Switch posted:

I know you said there's no remote start system, but is there an alarm?

There has to be. The car came with no fob, but I nicked one from the salvage yard while pulling a hood (the ignition block was already gone, so my conscience is unruffled)...the fob does have a panic swich. My son suggested locking up the car with the driver's window open and reaching in & unlocking it & opening the door...that should do it, but I'm afraid I won't be able to stop it except by pulling the lead (a start cycle should do it...but who knows?)


Seat Safety Switch posted:

Are there harness bundles that run through the fender that would have gotten frayed or otherwise damaged in the crash? It's amazing how much some rusty, jagged metal can affect a harness, especially on domestics where the stamped-steel takes shortcuts and results in sharp edges where the cabling passes through.

no, but the wires for the windshield washer were de-gloved by the death throes of the tire after impact took out the washer reservoir. They spliced up, no problem. See below, though about my leveraging on a harness during the valve cover work.



Seat Safety Switch posted:

That said, when you gently caress up an ECU I would imagine it would tend to stay in the "I'm hosed" condition instead of the "car is running great" condition.

I agree


Seat Safety Switch posted:

If the ECU is easily accessible it might not be a bad idea to open it up and look for physical damage like blown caps but it's really hard to detect, say, a grenaded surface-mount fet that way. My money is on physical damage to the loom incurred during the accident, possibly made worse by rust blossoms forming on the exposed wiring from moisture/vibration.

I ain't that good :( I'm much better at cutting open bundles, shadetree-style and going, "THAR IT IS!!!1"

If doing that doesn't find anything juicy...I dunno. I'll do my best to follow Adiabatic's leads. I owe him that.

everdave
Nov 14, 2005
You should be able to program that fob to your car with some archaic moves I'd look it up but I'm drunk. On our old fords it's anywhere from turn from off to on 5 times and press the button to do it ten times then plug in the seatbelt and tap your head three times type poo poo

Adiabatic
Nov 18, 2007

What have you assholes done now?

PainterofCrap posted:

The ASD relay wiring is not visible unless I crack open the power center. I'm looking for a dark blue/yellow stripe wire that feeds into the ASD plug bay?

Correct

PainterofCrap posted:

And that the downstream location at the PCM is "nat?"

It's in the wire bundle going into PCM Connector #3, out of 4. Connector #3's color, to differentiate it from the other 3, is apparently "NAT", which I think means "natural colored" or some other loving Dodge spaceship horseshit.

PCM Connector #1 is Black
PCM Connector #2 is Grey
PCM Connector #3 is "NAT"
PCM Connector #4 is Green

Location:



Once you find the "Natural" colored connector in the above location, next to the green, grey, and black ones that look similar, you can open up the loom that takes that wire bundle to the fuse box. Look for kinks, rubbing, corrosion, etc.

If that gives you nothing, we can open up the PCM like SSSwitch is suggesting, and you can take pictures for us. Since we know the pinout of this particular circuit, we should be able to narrow it down pretty quickly.

If THAT gives you nothing, we look at the circuit between the ignition switch and the PCM, specifically the circuit which tells the PCM the car should be shutting down.

E: No "Shut down" circuit upstream of the PCM, looks like, according to this fellow:

Adiabatic fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Mar 3, 2017

Kia Soul Enthusias
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom
Toilet Rascal
Check continuity of ground wires too? I had a car do weird crazy stuff when I forgot to plug in a ground cable. You'd need to identify suspect ground wires and set the multi-meter to continuity mode and put one probe on the wire and one on bare metal, I believe.

Good luck, Adiabatic & SSS are killing it reading these diagrams man.

Adiabatic
Nov 18, 2007

What have you assholes done now?
OKAY

OKAY

SO

I think, after reading through a shitload of diagrams, that you have a hosed up connection on part of the #2 operating mode in the ignition switch, going to the PCM.

Starting with the Ignition Switch:



quote:

About an hour later, after sunset, I happened to look out my kitchen window & noticed that instrument panel lights were on - as though the car were running. I found the odometer and shift indicator displays were lit; the airbag light was lit; when I opened the door, the door open indicator lit. The car was shut off with no key in it.

This indicates power at the RUN-START A21 connection coming off pin 4 of the ignition switch, specifically Fuse 14. Since your ignition switch is known good, this indicates a short on the #2 mode circuit somewhere.

quote:

Puzzled, I got the key, and started the car, and then shut it off, and removed the key.

This is when I went down the rabbit hole - the engine kept running. All of the peripherals (radio, heat, etc) went off, but the odo & shift displays stayed lit. I cycled the key back & forth, and removed it – no change. There was no way to turn off the engine. The check engine light came on WTF.

Actual normal ignition switch connection occurs on #2 circuit, all is well, when running. When turned off, #2 circuit is still powered due to the short, so the PCM still thinks the car is supposed to be running and doesn't send a signal to the ASD relay.

quote:

Stupified by this development, I pondered what to do next. Within 20-seconds, the engine began to run rough, stumble, then died. Oil light then came on. I started it again, (oil light went off), let it settle into idle, then cycled the ignition off, and removed the key; repeat: ran, stumbled & died within 20-seconds.

When it ran rough, stumbled, and died after 20 seconds, that's fuel pressure. The ASD relay only controls spark (it cuts spark when it receives signal to shut off from the PCM). The Fuel pump relay is powered off of #2 circuit from the ignition switch, but on a different physical circuit, specifically Fuse 13. However, Fuse 13 also has the main "Running" connection to the PCM so this may throw a wrench in the works.

quote:

I was able to pull a code from my OBDII reader, which indicated an issue with the evap system in the fuel tank. The reader died permanently after I tried to delete this code. It said that the code could not be deleted (which is the first time I have ever seen that happen with this reader, an old AutoRay 6000). I have since ordered a new reader. If it will help, I will post the actual code if this is not resolved before then. The car had never thrown a code before.

There's a connection to the datalink circuit through Fuse 1 that runs through the #1, #2, and #0 operating modes. This Fuse 1 should be powered unless the key is out of the ignition. Don't think this is your issue but it may be feeding the DLC and loving your code reader up.

quote:

Totally confused, I searched online & initially found that there is a cutoff relay that, if removed, kills the engine (ASD relay). Started the car, shut off the ignition, pulled they key, got out before the motor died in its own; pulled the relay, and it did. However, odo & shift indicators stayed on. The only way to turn them off is to pull the battery cables.

ASD severs control to the ignition, and the car shuts off. Since #2 circuit is still powered by the short, cluster and odo lights stay on.

When the problem is occurring, check fuses 1, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 13, 14, 17, 21, 22, and 23 for voltage. This will narrow down the short so we can hunt for random rear end components trying to be a PCM and powering your poo poo. Also check that ASD->PCM wire, though, as it's entirely possible that the wire is shorted and backfeeding #2 circuit through the PCM.

quote:

The second electric thing was to replace the power mirror switch in the driver's door. The one I bought is somehow wrong - all of the controls are reversed - but it does work. That will get sorted after I deal with this. If I can.

I then moved on to removing the obsolete & never-to-be-used-again aftermarket Sony CD changer

I have a hunch that the backwards switch is loving things up. A quick check is to disconnect the backwards switch entirely, and attempt to recreate the issue.



Relevant wiring diagrams:

Ignition Switch:



Switch to Fuses:









Fuses to Components:

















Adiabatic fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Mar 3, 2017

Elephanthead
Sep 11, 2008


Toilet Rascal
Abiabatic you just did more work then the chrysler guy that designed the car.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug
Check the ASD relay. With the car running and key removed, remove the relay and see if it turns off (it should)

EDIT: You already did.

Well, the ASD will give you a check point to find where the power is coming from at least.

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Mar 3, 2017

Adiabatic
Nov 18, 2007

What have you assholes done now?
loving lol:



There's direct battery power at the power mirror switch, which connects to the #2 ignition switch circuit.

There's no switches back to the battery either:





:siren: Unplug the power mirror switch you just installed, or pull Fuse 19. See if your issue persists. :siren:

:siren: loving Chrysler lmfao :siren:

Terrible Robot
Jul 2, 2010

FRIED CHICKEN
Slippery Tilde
This is almost as good as that old Ford or whatever that you could steal by pulling the hazard switch out of the dash and installing it upside down. Holy poo poo Chrysler.

Adiabatic
Nov 18, 2007

What have you assholes done now?
For those playing along at home:


This part is totally normal functionality (for Chrysler at least)









Fucky switch is sending power upstream, wrong way, through Fuse 14:





Which just.....







Then just.............








Airbags, Fuel pump relay, PCM, Instrument cluster, etc etc etc.

The fuel pump relay, on the other side, goes to the PCM control circuit. I think that won't be grounded, which is why the fuel pump isn't powered. Everything else seems to go to ground, which means it's fuckin powered.

SUSE Creamcheese
Apr 11, 2007
:psypop:

Nice work there adiabatic, JFC Chrysler.

McTinkerson
Jul 5, 2007

Dreaming of Shock Diamonds


We should all be happy that Chrysler has yet to allow whoever the gently caress designed and signed off on that anywhere near a hybrid electric system with 480V or more. Can you imagine all the dead Toyota techs if this was their SOP?

Edit: You know what, gently caress it. My SOP from now on is to disconnect the battery and pull every loving fuse whenever I touch a Chrysler product.

McTinkerson fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Mar 3, 2017

Seat Safety Switch
May 27, 2008

MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.

Pillbug
This is incredible.

Bibendum
Sep 5, 2003
nunc est Bibendum

Adiabatic posted:

For those playing along at home:

Awesome work, the mirror operating backwards reminded me of my old lotus. Fiberglass body so all grounds were wired back to the dash and switched there, hazard lights had to work at all times so the common 12v loom was constant on. PO fuckedery and Lucas switches lead to backfeeding with gauges being pegged backwards, dimly glowing bulbs and a flat battery. Fortunately the FSM was printed on plastic so the grease, blood and tears wiped away easily.

edit: So I guess the culprit is over voltage burning the LED in the power mirror switch to closed circuit? Why is there an LED in the power mirror switch? Why not just a diode? Am I terrible at reading diagrams?

I assume the switch came from a donor car? I wonder if it caused the donor to be scrapped, it nearly caused this one to be scrapped too...

Bibendum fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Mar 4, 2017

PainterofCrap
Oct 17, 2002

hey bebe


Adiabatic posted:

loving lol:



There's direct battery power at the power mirror switch, which connects to the #2 ignition switch circuit.

There's no switches back to the battery either:





:siren: Unplug the power mirror switch you just installed, or pull Fuse 19. See if your issue persists. :siren:

:siren: loving Chrysler lmfao :siren:

Holy poo poo. If you are right...

The last electronic thing I did

PainterofCrap
Oct 17, 2002

hey bebe


“There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.”
― Oscar Levant

“My brain is only a receiver, in the Universe there is a core from which we obtain knowledge, strength and inspiration. I have not penetrated into the secrets of this core, but I know that it exists.”
― Nikola Tesla

How could I wait?

Well to hell with fuses. Going to the source.











ADIABATIC DAMMIT.

https://youtu.be/V9AL9VyJz94



Mother. Fucker.

You, sir, are going to send me a mailing address. And then I will send you a poison of your choosing. It is the barest minimum that I can do. PM me or I’ll post an e-mail address.

Sir.

Wait until the wags at Intrepid.net get a load of this.

Bibendum posted:

I assume the switch came from a donor car? I wonder if it caused the donor to be scrapped, it nearly caused this one to be scrapped too...

Close. eBay.

PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Mar 4, 2017

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

Jesus tittyfucking Christ, if you had told this tale to me just a day ago, I would have told you to go back and make up a more believable story next time.

Seat Safety Switch
May 27, 2008

MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.

Pillbug
Now you need to repin the power window switch so it works properly.

Goldmine.

Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Mar 4, 2017

PainterofCrap
Oct 17, 2002

hey bebe


Seat Safety Switch posted:

Now you need to repin the power window switch so it works properly.

Goldmine.

For $11 I'll take a chance on another one. I should have at least that much left, after picking up Adiabatic's single malt.

VV post/ avatar combo FTW vv

PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Mar 4, 2017

Adiabatic
Nov 18, 2007

What have you assholes done now?
Jesus loving christ Chrysler

rdb
Jul 8, 2002
chicken mctesticles?
Impressive failure mode for a window switch and even more impressive detective work Adiabatic. Great job.

the spyder
Feb 18, 2011
What in the ever living christ, how is this possible????

autism ZX spectrum
Feb 8, 2007

by Lowtax
Fun Shoe
I'm blessed to have witnessed this.

Friar Zucchini
Aug 6, 2010

My Focus wouldn't turn off once, it just ignored the key coming out and pretended I hadn't done anything. I dumped the clutch at a stop and sure the fucker stalled but all the lights stayed on, just pretended the key was still there, and it drove fine without a key too. But that was a boring computer glitch, there was a recall for it so the dealer replaced the computer thing and it was done.

Now my old Suburban on the other hand, Ive got a "how the gently caress" story for it. It obeyed when I took the key out (not necessarily when I tried to start it though) but it got a really weird glitch when I replaced the thermostat. One of the bolts had a wire attached to it, as a ground for something I guess, that broke off when I turned the bolt. Swapped the thermostat and had the idea that I'd deal with the broken wire later, and decided otherwise when it suddenly wouldn't start. No crank, nuthin. So I get a splice thing and kludge the wire back on, and it starts and runs fine. But after a monthish, the speedometer starts to jiggle. Kind of a spastic twitch, never pointing at a lower speed than I was going, always bouncing up. Cruise control, meanwhile, continues to work like it normally does and hold a steady speed. Over some time the speedo twitch got worse and worse and eventually just pegged at 85... and then the engine died. The wire I'd patched up had slowly worked loose. That was the state of the thing for a while, whenever the wire would come loose I'd un-loose it and be on my way.

All I ever figured out is that random goddamn wire is crucial to loving something so I just did a better job of patching it up so it'll never come loose right before I got rid of it... but that wiring investigation has me curious now.

Friar Zucchini fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Mar 4, 2017

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009


I think as an AI team building exercise, we should track down the guy who designed that and beat the poo poo out of him.

Seat Safety Switch
May 27, 2008

MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.

Pillbug

Powershift posted:

I think as an AI team building exercise, we should track down the guy who designed that and beat the poo poo out of him.

Boaz MacPhereson
Jul 11, 2006

Day 12045 Ht10hands 180lbs
No Name
No lumps No Bumps Full life Clean
Two good eyes No Busted Limbs
Piss OK Genitals intact
Multiple scars Heals fast
O NEGATIVE HI OCTANE
UNIVERSAL DONOR
Lone Road Warrior Rundown
on the Powder Lakes V8
No guzzoline No supplies
ISOLATE PSYCHOTIC
Keep muzzled...

Adiabatic posted:

Jesus loving christ Chrysler

This forever.

Well loving done, Adiabatic. poo poo like this is what continues to make AI the best goddamn automotive forum on the internet.

Adiabatic
Nov 18, 2007

What have you assholes done now?

loving lmao his shirt hahahaha

spookykid
Apr 28, 2006

Adiabatic posted:

Fucky switch is sending power upstream, wrong way, through Fuse 14:





What do you want to bet some "rebuilder" pulls junkyard switches and "fixes" them with the lowest overhead diodes they can, and nevermind the reverse leakage current. Doesn't matter until the ground strap for the window regulator/power mirrors fails and the easiest path is back through the ignition circuit.

PainterofCrap
Oct 17, 2002

hey bebe



:boom:

randomidiot
May 12, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 11 years!)

Requesting thread title change to "our mod is a goddamn wizard".

What in the ever living gently caress.

loving excellent job Adiabatic. I bet it would have taken most shops weeks of throwing parts at it before they gave up, followed by the dealer saying "oh it's the computers, it'll be $1000000000 to fix, but hey we have all these new problem-free cars here on the lot!".

Adiabatic posted:

There's direct battery power at the power mirror switch, which connects to the #2 ignition switch circuit.

There's no switches back to the battery either:

Jesus tittyfucking Christ Chrysler. That's better than when I was putting in a new power window switch on my Altima and the parking lights turned on as I plugged it in.

The factory switch didn't have anything in it for lighting. Apparently the lovely Duralast switch I bought did have an illuminated LF switch, and that particular switch had a short in it. Confused the poo poo out of me until I started probing the plug in the door with my multimeter, and managed to find a constant hot wire going to the switch, and bridging that wire to another would do any number of things (roll windows up, down, trigger the door open indicator, turn on the parking lights, make the car think the ignition was on, pop the fuse in my multimeter, etc). I guess the higher trim level models did have a lighted switch?

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Applebees Appetizer
Jan 23, 2006

drat I wish I could read diagrams like I can read a book.

Good work Adiabatic, apparently you should have engineered the Dodge Intrepid.

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