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Will Perez force the dems left?
This poll is closed.
Yes 33 6.38%
No 343 66.34%
Keith Ellison 54 10.44%
Pete Buttigieg 71 13.73%
Jehmu Green 16 3.09%
Total: 416 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
  • Locked thread
Ardennes
May 12, 2002
I think the biggest reason the Democrats won't change is if anything ideological, most establishment/centrist dems don't want to move leftward because they honestly believe it would be destructive to the country. I lived in DC for a while, and many if not most of those beltway types are true believers.

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Crowsbeak
Oct 9, 2012

by Azathoth
Lipstick Apathy

Ardennes posted:

I think the biggest reason the Democrats won't change is if anything ideological, most establishment/centrist dems don't want to move leftward because they honestly believe it would be destructive to the country. I lived in DC for a while, and many if not most of those beltway types are true believers.

Yeah, most of us here kind of recognize that. THat's why our goal is to make them live in fear.

Archonex
May 2, 2012

MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

Ardennes posted:

I think the biggest reason the Democrats won't change is if anything ideological, most establishment/centrist dems don't want to move leftward because they honestly believe it would be destructive to the country. I lived in DC for a while, and many if not most of those beltway types are true believers.

How do they believe it's destructive to the country?

I mean, the centrist's having control of the party is a new thing historically speaking. They pretty much shivved any progressives in the party in the back during Reagan's term in the hopes that they could pick up votes from the other side. That's pretty much why they have control of the party now, in fact. Since then the Republican party has only gotten more radicalized and the Democrats have lost ground across the country as the Republicans pillage it either with vulture economics or by being downright crazy.

If they really believe that then it sounds as if they're either ignorant of history or as politically savvy as the more sociopathic Republicans can be, and are just trying to cover their rear end.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Apr 12, 2017

Eggplant Squire
Aug 14, 2003


Ardennes posted:

I think the biggest reason the Democrats won't change is if anything ideological, most establishment/centrist dems don't want to move leftward because they honestly believe it would be destructive to the country. I lived in DC for a while, and many if not most of those beltway types are true believers.

Yeah as someone that's lived in the DC area for decades this is totally true. These kinds of people really can't comprehend the country not just collapsing if leftists somehow took over. People talk about "ideological purity" from leftists but it's just as strong if not stronger from the ones that are committed to the status quo and they won't cede any ground without a big fight. I'm not sure how to really fight against that since those people have all the power and are more than willing to lose elections rather than re-evaluate their beliefs.

Seriously though any person saying that the DNC getting involved would have made things worse should be advocating for the entire party to be gutted from the top down. If they are so toxic that they are loving over elections just by having candidates associated with them they are worse than useless as a political party. Of course that's not actually the truth and the reality is that this election is a slice of the standard Democratic strategy of ignoring risky elections to dump money into safe ones (which are coincidentally those of high ranking party members). The problem with this very close loss is that the Republicans will learn the right lesson that they are not popular and need to try to win elections with monetary and political support to get out their voters while the Democrats will learn the wrong one that they have to do nothing and Trump will deliver them congress and the Presidency.

Condiv posted:

https://twitter.com/TomPerez/status/851960464582037504

drat near all the replies to this are tearing perez a new one for abandoning the 50 state strategy. i hope perez gets roasted wrt this today. also i hope his life is a living hell

Good. Even if a close loss is indicative of a bright future because of Republicans making GBS threads the bed he needs to wake the gently caress up and actually do something instead of falling back on the Democratic instinct to do nothing and hope people vote for them out of fear. I can deal with this loss if it means that maybe they will learn but 2016 should have shaken them to high heaven and it clearly didn't so I doubt that they will do much.

Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Apr 12, 2017

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
unless the toxicity is the "like Nancy Pelosi ______ wants to take your guns"

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

Archonex posted:

How do they believe it's destructive to the country?

I mean, the centrist's having control of the party is a new thing historically speaking. They pretty much shivved any progressives in the party in the back during Reagan's term in the hopes that they could pick up votes from the other side. That's pretty much why they have control of the party now, in fact. Since then the Republican party has only gotten more radicalized and the Democrats have lost ground across the country as the Republicans pillage it either with vulture economics or by being downright crazy.

If they really believe that then it sounds as if they're either ignorant of history or as politically savvy as the more sociopathic Republicans can be, and are just trying to cover their rear end.

Well, I think it goes without saying they are probably ignorant of history, most politicians are. I think part of it most of the Democrats currently in charge still have vivid memories of the Cold War (many of them were middle aged before it ended) and part of that comes with a true fear of anything that sounds a bit too "leftist." I remember there was some debate in Florida and they showed some video on stage trying to tie Bernie with Castro like we were back in the early 1960s. They feel they were on the winning side of the Cold War just as much as the Republicans and part of that is ideological orthodoxy. It is also why so many of them are also hawks and seem to want to always recruit from the center/center-right since they are shared values and beliefs with those voters.

As for how to get rid of them, I don't know if you can't unless you meltdown the Democratic Party. Granted at this point, there isn't that much left to lose and if anything Republicans seem to be some of their own worst enemies.

What I will say, it is almost certain they were do everything in their power to keep the left from having meaningful influence in the party, that includes starving cash from more progressive candidates and giving it to centrists. They be cowards at standing up to corporations (partly because they probably don't see them as much of a threat/potential allies), but I don't they fear undermine left-wing candidates.

Condiv
May 7, 2008

Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod


WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

unless the toxicity is the "like Nancy Pelosi ______ wants to take your guns"

Cept he got smeared with that anyway and still got no funds from the dems. So good job there

Condiv
May 7, 2008

Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod


ITT centrists advocate running as independents and not dems cause no one likes dems

Condiv
May 7, 2008

Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod


Dems are gonna take back states by pretending not to be dems and by refusing to support democratic candidates

They can't lose with a strategy like that the republicans that is

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

i mean, look at these loving idiots

https://twitter.com/chuckschumer/status/851985491264237568

their model for the future is the election the chose to lose! they're gonna just do nothing in 2018 and hope they get some wins

What should he have said?

Condiv
May 7, 2008

Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod


mcmagic posted:

What should he have said?

He should've blasted Perez and the DNC for being worthless instead of promising voters a worthless dnc for the next 6 years and beyond

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

He should've blasted Perez and the DNC for being worthless instead of promising voters a worthless dnc for the next 6 years and beyond

That doesn't seem super helpful.

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/852160966875914241

Seems deece.

Condiv
May 7, 2008

Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod


mcmagic posted:

That doesn't seem super helpful.

Neither does reminding voters that your party is worthless and loves jerking itself off to how worthless it is

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

Neither does reminding voters that your party is worthless and loves jerking itself off to how worthless it is

Not winning a seat in a R+20 district just doesn't make the top 50 things that make the democratic party worthless. This isn't the hill to die on.

Condiv
May 7, 2008

Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod


mcmagic posted:

Not winning a seat in a R+20 district just doesn't make the top 50 things that make the democratic party worthless. This isn't the hill to die on.

Losing it by 6% after the DNC refuses to fund the running democrat does though. Thanks for sticking up for Perez lying about adopting a 50 state strategy.

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

Losing it by 6% after the DNC refuses to fund the running democrat does though. Thanks for sticking up for Perez lying about adopting a 50 state strategy.

This race isn't the one to judge their 50 state strategy on. Their version of the RedMap project will be and we won't know about that probably for years. Remember that there are pretty much ~120 republican held seats that they are more likely to win in 2018 than Kansas 4.

Hail Mr. Satan!
Oct 3, 2009

by zen death robot

mcmagic posted:

This race isn't the one to judge their 50 state strategy on. Their version of the RedMap project will be and we won't know about that probably for years. Remember that there are pretty much ~120 republican held seats that they are more likely to win in 2018 than Kansas 4.

Yeah Kansas isn't a state

Condiv
May 7, 2008

Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod


mcmagic posted:

This race isn't the one to judge their 50 state strategy on. Their version of the RedMap project will be and we won't know about that probably for years. Remember that there are pretty much ~120 republican held seats that they are more likely to win in 2018 than Kansas 4.

Why not? It was a winnable election, dems knew it was winnable, and they ceded it to republicans by abandoning the dem campaigning for it why? Why do you think a good 50 state strategy entails handing republicans victories till 2018?

Terror Sweat
Mar 15, 2009

mcmagic posted:

This race isn't the one to judge their 50 state strategy on. Their version of the RedMap project will be and we won't know about that probably for years. Remember that there are pretty much ~120 republican held seats that they are more likely to win in 2018 than Kansas 4.

You judge them based on their actions, and so far it doesn't inspire much hope. Perez explicitly mentioned Kansas when running for DNC chair and talking about his 50 state strategy. Literally the only thing he's publicly done that I could find was one tweet the day of. And then you have stuff like this

quote:

Rep. Jim Clyburn (D-S.C.) was the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee’s national mobilization chair in 2016. “Montana special election?” Clyburn said, when HuffPost asked if the DCCC planned to get more involved in the race. Somebody nearby told him the race was to replace Zinke. “Oh, I didn’t know about that,” Clyburn said.


Which was last week. It doesn't inspire much hope

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Terror Sweat posted:

You judge them based on their actions, and so far it doesn't inspire much hope. Perez explicitly mentioned Kansas when running for DNC chair and talking about his 50 state strategy. Literally the only thing he's publicly done that I could find was one tweet the day of. And then you have stuff like this


Which was last week. It doesn't inspire much hope

Clyburn, just like the rest of Pelosi's leadership team, inspires zero confidence. That is for sure. It's all bunch of 80 year old's for Christ's sake.

Condiv
May 7, 2008

Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod


mcmagic posted:

Clyburn, just like the rest of the democrats, inspires zero confidence. That is for sure. It's all bunch of 80 year old's for Christ's sake.

Ftfy

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe

They're going to win like three of those seats by refusing to field candidates in the rest of them.

Condiv
May 7, 2008

Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod


Cerebral Bore posted:

They're going to win like three of those seats by refusing to field candidates in the rest of them.

actually they'll only win 1. they'll refuse to fund 2 of those candidates

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Condiv
May 7, 2008

Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod


new thread here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3816838

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