Will the democrats change and represent their membership?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Will the democrats change and represent their membership?

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Will Perez force the dems left? This poll is closed.
Yes	33	6.38%
No	343	66.34%
Keith Ellison	54	10.44%
Pete Buttigieg	71	13.73%
Jehmu Green	16	3.09%
Total:	416 votes

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mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

also, i don't know how much of D&D agrees yet, but I think it's p clear by now that the clintons are heavily corrupt. their daughter received numerous well-paying gift jobs from news networks and such. i don't know how a politician can try to claim that their kid receiving a $26k a minute salary from NBC will not have any sway on their policies.

That isn't what corruption means. Though it's very distasteful.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 14:43

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 12:32

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

The Kingfish posted:

It kinda is what corruption means though. It's just not illegal corruption.

Corruption is misuse of power. Giving someone a job because of nepotism isn't corruption.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 14:50

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

They gave her daughter a job so that she would misuse her power to benefit them

In most first world nations something like this would sink her. Not the corruption friendly US though

He daughter getting a good job would sink her? Really? That is such meaningless small beans.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 15:16

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

The Kingfish posted:

Her daughter getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to do nothing by a major news corporation should have put her in hot water. Same with the Saudi donations to the Clinton Foundation.

Child of rich, famous and influential parents getting a good job is not a scandal. No one cares. It's SOP.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 15:43

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

Actually a lot of people care. Why do you think people call Clinton corrupt all the time? It's cause she pulls poo poo like this. Why do you think people wanted an outsider candidate so bad? Cause they want free of the corruption of the dems and republicans. By giving corrupt dems a pass, you feed the fascism that threatens to consume this country.

They don't call her corrupt because her daughter got a dumb job. They call her corrupt because she's been in Washington for 30 years and has had 30 years of bullshit slung at her by republicans. I'm not giving her a free pass and I didn't vote for her in the primary but the idea that she's corrupt is right wing fever swamp bullshit. She's a middle of the road typical politician who made a lot of money off her position which puts her in the same position as Obama and the vast majority of members of both parties. That isn't corruption. How anyone can call that corruption after the blatant quid pro quo self dealing that we're seeing in the white house right now is mind boggling. The false equivalence is stomach turning.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 16:40

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

Lol no she's corrupt cause she had 30 years of bribes. And I strongly disagree that this arrangement isn't corruption cause everyone's doing it. People are pissed cause congress is massively corrupt and not representing their interests.

Trumps massive corruption is just the natural extension of the corruption plaguing washington. Stop enabling corruption if you don't want it to grow worse.

Your false equivalence here is what has enabled corruption to grow worse. It's why Trump is the president.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 16:50

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

Actually you'll find I had no actual ability to stop trump's presidency once the primary had passed. And I'd like to know how me being anti corruption actually caused more corruption. It probably requires rhetorical acrobatics similar to those used to claim minimum wage advocacy hurts the poor.

70%+ of those who had negative views of both candidates voted for Trump. Textbook false equivalency thinking and the reason he won.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 16:54

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Agnosticnixie posted:

Tripling down with the baddems.txt poo poo that implies anyone who said something negative about her in D&D must be a trump voter?

Who gives a poo poo who he voted for? It's his line of thinking that was the issue and that it was widely shared.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 16:58

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

Problem with that reasoning is that I live in a blood red state no one believed clinton had a snowball's chance in even when flawed polling was overestimating her chances.

Of course, I took advantage of my "good fortune" by casting a protest vote for Gloria la riva that had the exact same effect on the outcome on the election that a vote for Hillary would've got me.

I literally had no outcome on the election past the primary, no matter how much you want to pretend I did.

If I had lived in a blue or swing state I'd have held my nose and voted for her, but as a powerless dem in a state abandoned by dems, that wasn't a choice I had to make.

It's not you personally, it's the thousands of people who have the same moronic views as you.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 17:04

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

yeah, dems should probably stop calling people whose votes they want morons. Also maybe not abandon unions in violation of their campaign promises and actually visit states, but let's start with the easy mode goal of not attacking their own base

You are a thinking human being I assume? How is Donald Trump and the Republicans in power going to help unions? As opposed to Hillary Clinton who ran in 2008 and 16 supporting card check?

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 17:09

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Agnosticnixie posted:

How is Cuomo in power helping unions? General dem inaction in 2011 left a massive rift with the major unions that isn't going to recover anytime soon, there's a reason they had progressive wing dems bending the knee the week after election night. Unions have been massively taken for granted by the DNC and only end up being used for warm bodies and cash while not getting anything back in terms of worker rights.

Cuomo is a piece of poo poo and the DNC has taken unions for granted but you didn't answer my question. Hillary Clinton was clearly and unequivocally better for unions and more harm is going to come to unions because she lost. That is a 100% fact. Just Neil Goursch and whoever else Trump installs on the court are going to cast crippling votes for unions for the next 30 years.

Condiv posted:

You mean the ones who held their nose and voted hillary in the general? Cause I would've if I lived somewhere where a vote for a dem president could possibly win. I'm not sure how that's responsible for hillary losing, but you're the smart guy here.

Good for you. But you're spouting the same arguments that the people who didn't vote or voted for Trump did.

mcmagic fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Mar 20, 2017

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 17:13

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

Because they're right, Hillary is corrupt. Trump's worse, but he's just the next step in corruption, not an entirely different beast altogether.

Sorry I'm not pretending that dems taking massive amounts of money in exchange for favors isn't corrupt and that republicans are the only corrupt ones in congress.

In terms of the corruption scale she's a 2.3 and he's a 7 billion. Scale and perspective matter.

Mr. Belding posted:

You were definitely better when you prophesying Trumps victory. I want the old mcmagic back. Forsake your Abuela and join us on the red side (socialist, not GOP).

I did not predict he would win. I said she was a poo poo candidate and I was right and I still believe she was a poo poo candidate. I also voted for her and anyone who didn't was wrong/moronic/evil. There is nothing incomparable with having social democratic politics and voting for her. I live in the real world.

mcmagic fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Mar 20, 2017

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 17:19

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Agnosticnixie posted:

All it proves is that the left is still all too willing to buy into the notion that the democrats are worth negotiating with and that the party can be changed from the inside. This love me I'm a liberal poo poo has been going on for decades already.

There is no alternative to changing the party from the inside. Also the party has moved left in the last decade. That is unarguable.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 18:33

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

Bernie both outraised and outspent Clinton during portions of the primary, of course.

Yeah. It wasn't money. The voters were wrong.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 18:59

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

WampaLord posted:

Holy gently caress, mcmagic, weren't you the hardest of Bernie supporters, and now you're in here accusing people of being terrible for not voting for Clinton?

I remember you earning a "mcmagic was right" av after the election, why are you now intent on shaming people for not helping Worst Candidate Ever Hillary win?

I haven't changed what I was saying at all. I was a hardcore Bernie supporter and I worked for and voted for him in the primary. I also said after the primary that not working for and voting for "poo poo Candidate Hillary Clinton" made you terrible and I still believe that.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 20:08

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesArkin/status/843896952400109568?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

gently caress you Mike.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 20:10

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

WampaLord posted:

No, I get that, but why waste your energy trying to shame people for not winning the election that we already lost? Let's focus on the next one.

I didn't deny anything, I'm just trying to keep the thread on topic and not have it devolve into the "Bernie supporters are racist!" argument again, because that's not a productive discussion to have.

I am worried about the next election but what was going on in this thread re: false equivalency between Clinton and Trump was dumb and had to be responded to.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 20:13

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

that was in your head cause i never said clinton was as corrupt as trump, just that she's corrupt.

You seemed very worried about a who gives a poo poo like Chelsea Clinton getting a good job.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 20:26

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

The game is rigged for people like the Clintons, we don't need people who benefit enormously from the rigged system to run for any office, no matter how small.

We should strongly fight against nepotism and corruption, otherwise it's a never ending cycle of Trumps and Clintons fighting while the rest of us die painful deaths and watch our children drown

Hth

You can't address that directly. Were you upset about Malia Obama getting a plum internship at HBO? Children with powerful and influential parents get to start on 3rd base, yeah. Welcome to the entire history of human civilization.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 20:32

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

The Dem field was cleared for Bernie to run for Senate in Vermont the first time.

Probably because he was a great candidate and ridiculously popular in Vermont.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 20:50

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

That wasn't the point. The argument was that the DNC should never clear the field for people, but apparently only when you don't like the candidate.

How about never when they are an objectively terrible candidate who is the only democrat who could possibly lose to a deranged authoritarian madman?

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 20:53

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

I wasn't talking about Hillary; I was simply just responding to the dude who was mad about the idea of a house seat field being cleared for Chlesea to run.

OK. They shouldn't be clearing a seat for her but I could see the temptation to. She has a lot of name recognition.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 20:56

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

Chelsea is a lovely person- Bernie is a good person

In bernies instance it was a good idea

In Chelsea's instance it will be a nightmare

Hth

It really doesn't matter if she's a lovely person if her name recognition can flip a republican seat....

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 21:13

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

The definition of "Very Serious Thinking" should be: Heard on the set of Morning Joe.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 21:15

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

sorry to burst your bubble but if Chelsea runs that seat is going to be held by republicans until the sun goes supernova.

No one likes the Clintons, no one likes Chelsea, no one likes venture capitalists. It will be a very dumb idea in a long list of dumb ideas that the Dems have come up with

I'm inclined to agree with you but it depends on what the polling says.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 21:22

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

Who cares if she's a back bencher in some house district if she flips a seat?

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 21:24

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

That's literally what clearing the field means in most races. I am not at all endorsing them doing it for Hillary in the presidential primary, just pointing out that they did it for Bernie (which they did.)

Not the same. Hillary was eminently beatable in 2016. Bernie was not.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 22:10

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

That's not what I said dude. I said they cleared the field for him in a senate race. Which they did. It happens. It's part of politics.

I don't think all of his policies or strategies are the way forward.

But they did it because they didn't think they could beat him.

Kilroy posted:

In the primary? Who was going to run in the primary but didn't because the Democratic party asked nicely? The very article you posted claimed there were no Vermont Democrats capable of defeating Bernie.

Biden, Brown Warren all probably beat her.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 22:20

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

There was definitely a disgusting taint of Islamophobia to Perez's (And Saban's and Dershiowitz's) win.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 14:26

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

Just lmao at the idea of the senate and Texas turning blue

How arrogant was the campaign to believe that since they had the most money raised ever they would win the election lmao

The senate not turning blue was an even bigger upset than Trump winning. They lost senate races that were just completely stunning to anyone who had been paying attention.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 15:14

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

TyrantWD posted:

The fact that someone like Feingold lost, and by a larger amount than Hillary lost by in Wisconsin shows you how far right/left the country really is. Anyone who thinks Democrats lost because the party was too centrist, and a true liberal would have cleaned house needs to look at the Wisconsin senate race and see how nonsense that idea is.

If this election was really all about Hillary being bad, Feingold would have won Wisconsin while Hillary lost, but he didn't.

That state is the epicenter of the most regressive right wing politics. It has been turning red for a while now.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 17:13

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:

So her platform was "is not Donald Trump"

I still believe she lost because of who she was, not because of what she ran on.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 19:40

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Radish posted:

I remember in the primary she had a bunch of surprising economically leftist ads in my area but once the general rolled around they transitioned into how much of a jerk Trump was.

I think that kind of campaign would've probably worked for any other democrat. It wouldn't have even been close with any other democrat.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 20:05

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

you know what else would've helped hillary? if she and the DNC weren't so intent to cheat. we lost one DNC chair cause she was colluding with hillary, and then brazile says she wasn't gonna allow that anymore, knowing that she had just played favorites with hillary a few days before. and then she gets caught on it a few days before the election and she lies more.

its amazing how stupid the dems are. was leaking debate questions to hillary worth jeapordizing her candidacy? oh, we haven't even gotten to the point where dems ask themselves that, because they still refuse to admit the primaries were a rigged farce

Nothing the DNC did mattered in the outcome of the primary. They aren't nearly that competent.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 20:12

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

yeah, until theres actually been a look into "what the dem party did" i'm gonna doubt that. all we've seen is what's leaked, and we hear new things every so often, like the DNC punishing people who endorsed bernie.

the dems have still not been straightforward with how the DNC was loving with the primary. hell, we just got a confession from brazile about the debate questions

What happened in the party with everyone lining up behind her in 2014 is not a DNC issue. They don't have the power to do that.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 20:18

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

guy tried to endorse bernie, so this wouldn't be in 2014

That story in NJ is loving infuriating but that is how politics in NJ works. 90% of our democrats are utterly horrible. It has nothing to do with the DNC.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 21:08

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

that should be looked into too, but don't you think the poo poo that has come out of the DNC so far warrants an investigation into meddling in the primary and attempts to prevent this kind of poo poo from happening again to restore faith in the party?

the party circling the wagons and saying nothingburger while at the same time claiming these revelations cost them the election is a losing strategy

Which revelations cost them the election?

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 22:23

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv posted:

brazile's debate questions leaked a few days before the election. dems certainly thought it was damaging enough they lied their asses off about it till now

the original revelations wrt dws also hurt them alot and caused a bad schism in the party that may have contributed to hillary's loss (it almost certainly didn't help). those revelations were damaging enough that DWS had to step down way ahead of schedule.

None of that had anything to do with the outcome of the either the primary or general.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 22:34

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Condiv is gonna love this:

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/325160-chelsea-clinton-to-get-lifetime-achievement-award

# ¿ Mar 22, 2017 15:27

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 12:32

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

JeffersonClay posted:

Had Romney and McCain made the same overt appeals to racial resentment as Trump that argument would be a lot stronger.

Every republican campaign in the last 40 years has made overt appeals to racial resentment.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2017 05:34

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