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Last year I watched Multiple Maniacs. It was my first encounter with John Waters besides his guest appearances in the Simpsons and that Lonely Island video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLPZmPaHme0 My wife had only passing contact with his work via Hairspray, so we decided to sit down and have a nice evening watching Pink Flamingos, which I've heard some describe as his magnum opus (others have said Female Trouble).  If you haven't seen it, all I'll say is that every ten minutes, I said to myself "Well, I've never seen that in a movie before...". I don't know if the good/bad dichotomy really applies to it. It's basically an event. This kicked off some research into Pink Flamingos, John Waters, and what was "the point of it all." I'm fascinated by John Waters' "Prince of Puke" persona and what he was trying to accomplish with his art. If I understand correctly, Waters was creating transgressive scenarios to give a full-on middle finger to polite white cishet society. By making his "heroes" perform all manner of disgusting acts, rapes, cannibalism, necrophilia, incest, coprophagia, and blasphemy, he was embracing the freaks over the squares who had a stranglehold on society and whose normalcy was literally deadly for queer communities, communities of color, the poor, etc. So here's my discussion question: I'm a white cisgendered male, bisexual but married to a cis woman in a "normal" boring vanilla whitebread suburban paradise. I am a villain in a John Waters film. So, what do you think John Waters ultimately wants me (or audiences me) to take away from the film? If I understand correctly, his films were for marginalized communities and can be thought of as either catharsis or a rallying cry or what have you. But for a square like me who wanders in and respects the art, is there a call to action attached to Pink Flamingos? I'm asking because PF is such a... primal screen against normalcy that it seems as though the call to action is NOT "Please include the queer community in your reindeer games." It's more like "gently caress your reindeer games." So, through PF or MM or his other works, is Waters arguing for inclusion? For revolution? For reconciliation? For anything? Or is searching for a call to action the wrong way to approach Waters' work? What say you? tl;dr: What does Pink Flamingos WANT for society?
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Mar 5, 2017 21:55
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Read any of his interviews, watch any of his specials, especially paying attention to the people he admires. He's never been a fan of propriety and respectability.
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Mar 5, 2017 22:06
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His main concern is for anarchy, as a revolt against the norms, which includes the engagement of sidelined communities. The main thing I always take away from his movies is the earthy humanity - these people are cartoon characters, to be sure, but he captures a side of people that usually gets ignored in film. Also, normalcy is death.
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Mar 5, 2017 22:17
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Read any of his interviews, watch any of his specials, especially paying attention to the people he admires. He's never been a fan of propriety and respectability. Right, but I would guess John Waters the man doesn't actually support cannibalizing police officers or mother-son blowjobs (well maybe...) so I'm curious if the idea is more like "if you would stop excluding people from basic human dignity, we wouldn't HAVE TO eat dog poo poo as a radical act." I guess I'm wondering if there's an end game or a "win state" Waters/Pink Flamingos would be happy with.
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Mar 5, 2017 22:27
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If a boring person throws up during one of his movies, he's succeeded.
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Mar 5, 2017 23:18
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Magic Hate Ball posted:If a boring person throws up during one of his movies, he's succeeded. There's something to be said for tight goal-setting
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Mar 6, 2017 02:01
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The disturbing thing about Pink Flamingos is that you don't have the luxury of thinking "Oh, they just used a prop or that was just a special effect" because everything and anything is exactly what you see.
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Mar 6, 2017 03:02
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There are films with queer people but John Waters makes queer films. He's punk as gently caress. All of his films are pretty much satire of the straight world and a hyper reality. His goal is to make you disgusted and just make fun of everything. He's a moral nihilist. He's also really loving brilliant and I could listen to him talk about art forever.
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Mar 6, 2017 03:07
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The other thing about Waters movies is that he's not mean spirited at all. At least in the sense that his "bad taste" is never done in a way that is meant to demean or spite. It's always out of a completely honest love for the obscene and bizarre and repulsive dredges of society. So what does he want from you as a quote unquote "boring" person? He wants you to delight in the depravity with him! He wants you to look at these weirdos and have fun, see a hosed-up movie, read a dirty book, gently caress a stranger, hitchhike, or just express yourself in some way or shape that speaks to you and isn't just reaffirming the boring, middle class sense of conformity we're constantly pressured into by society. And if you're one of those stuck up conservative prudes who scoffs at his kind of art and wants to ban it, well gently caress you, it was never for you.
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Mar 6, 2017 05:07
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What I find most disconcerting about Pink Flamingos (which I saw for the first time very recently) isn't the depravity, but the exaggeratedly emphatic line delivery. The dialogue is spewed out in this strange hyper-dramatic style which at first comes across like bad acting. But as the films progresses it starts to take on a rythmic quality that feels completely in harmony with the strange poo poo that's happening. I guess the chicken sex is pretty loving disconcerting too.
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Mar 6, 2017 05:56
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Once a week, sit on the toilet facing the basin.
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Mar 6, 2017 09:07
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Spatulater bro! posted:What I find most disconcerting about Pink Flamingos (which I saw for the first time very recently) isn't the depravity, but the exaggeratedly emphatic line delivery. The dialogue is spewed out in this strange hyper-dramatic style which at first comes across like bad acting. But as the films progresses it starts to take on a rythmic quality that feels completely in harmony with the strange poo poo that's happening. What's funny is if you ever read the screenplay for his films from that era they read a lot more naturally than they're performed. But I love the way he directs actors, and also that he didn't abandon it for his later films when he started working with top celebrities like Johnny Depp.
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Mar 6, 2017 13:38
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watch A Dirty Shame, op. its about a boring straight white couple learning to embrace their inner john waters-style weirdo.
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Mar 6, 2017 14:10
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mary had a little clam posted:Pink Flamingos, which I've heard some describe as his magnum opus (others have said Female Trouble).
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Mar 6, 2017 15:16
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It may be worth noting here that Criterion is releasing Multiple Maniacs on March 21. It's a 4K restoration and it has a new John Waters audio commentary.
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Mar 6, 2017 15:48
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When I first got Netflix, one of the first things I watched that made me realize how worth it Netflix is was a "An Evening With..." type thing with Waters. He basically told stories for about 90 minutes, and the dude is so engaging I feel like if filmmaking hadn't worked out for him he could have easily been a comedian.
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Mar 6, 2017 20:31
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If I had a niche TV network, it'd have 3 things for sure: a) The Chris Gethard Show b)A movie block hosted by/programmed by John Waters c)A Lucha Libre show
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Mar 6, 2017 20:36
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El Gallinero Gros posted:When I first got Netflix, one of the first things I watched that made me realize how worth it Netflix is was a "An Evening With..." type thing with Waters. He basically told stories for about 90 minutes, and the dude is so engaging I feel like if filmmaking hadn't worked out for him he could have easily been a comedian. Yeah he's really brilliant and intelligent. I've been to a few of his speaking engagements and they were all wonderful.
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Mar 6, 2017 21:17
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Hollismason posted:Yeah he's really brilliant and intelligent. I've been to a few of his speaking engagements and they were all wonderful. Also, his appearance on the Simpsons is magnificent with a really nice message
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Mar 6, 2017 21:23
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His audio commentary on the Mommy Dearest DVD is amazing.
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Mar 6, 2017 21:28
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John Waters thread YTOTD https://youtu.be/YnpofBtijF8
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Mar 7, 2017 01:03
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9P_sxaaMJE
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Mar 7, 2017 01:13
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Thirsty Girl posted:Once a week, sit on the toilet facing the basin. Trip report: My wife and I are now in a coprophiliac polyamorous quintet and we all live in an old-style burnt out Pizza Hut. We've never been happier. Thanks John Waters!
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Mar 8, 2017 19:05
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TrixRabbi posted:The other thing about Waters movies is that he's not mean spirited at all. At least in the sense that his "bad taste" is never done in a way that is meant to demean or spite. It's always out of a completely honest love for the obscene and bizarre and repulsive dredges of society.
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Mar 12, 2017 10:26
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So the Criterion release of Multiple Maniacs came out today. What do you guys think, blind buy? I've only seen Pink Flamingos and was fascinated by it. I also find Waters to be immensely interesting.
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Mar 21, 2017 21:21
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Spatulater bro! posted:So the Criterion release of Multiple Maniacs came out today. What do you guys think, blind buy? I've only seen Pink Flamingos and was fascinated by it. I also find Waters to be immensely interesting. It's good but be warned it is much rougher than Pink Flamingos in terms of filmmaking prowess. Still, it's a ton of fun and I like it it a lot. However, you totally should check out Female Trouble and Desperate Living next.
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Mar 22, 2017 04:19
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Pink Flamingos is one of the best movies ever made.
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Jul 18, 2017 03:27
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Criterion's Beyond the Valley of the Dolls Blu-Ray has a new 30-minute interview with John Waters that is worth the price of admission alone. If only to stare at his amazing jacket.  EDIT: Pink Flamingos came through town awhile back doing a 45h anniversary event and there were loving walk-outs, which I think is amazing. I'm surprised anyone could walk into that movie not knowing its reputation. Or maybe they were well aware of the poo poo eating scene, but not everything that leads up to it. Funny enough it was during the shrimping scene. That was apparently the final straw. caligulamprey fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Jul 18, 2017 |
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Jul 18, 2017 05:04
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caligulamprey posted:EDIT: Pink Flamingos came through town awhile back doing a 45h anniversary event and there were loving walk-outs, which I think is amazing. I'm surprised anyone could walk into that movie not knowing its reputation. Or maybe they were well aware of the poo poo eating scene, but not everything that leads up to it. Yeah, honestly, I could see someone just knowing it as "that movie where Divine eats dog poo," or even just "that movie with Divine in it," and not having a drat clue what they're getting into otherwise. Divine and John Waters are pretty well-known in the younger generation as people (the former mostly in the LGBT+ community, the latter... just kind of in general), but their creative works have largely kinda fallen into obscurity. e: Jackass 2 and The Simpsons alone have basically ensured that Waters will be loving immortal to my generation, even if very few of us have seen Pink Flamingos or Multiple Maniacs. WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jul 18, 2017 |
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Jul 18, 2017 20:48
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Hollismason posted:There are films with queer people but John Waters makes queer films. He's punk as gently caress. All of his films are pretty much satire of the straight world and a hyper reality. His goal is to make you disgusted and just make fun of everything. Is there any other filmmaker in this category I should seek out? I'm fairly familiar with Bruce LaBruce and I think he'd come close, but I don't know of any others.
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Jul 19, 2017 04:08
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Todd Solondz slams immediately to mind, particularly Happiness.
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Jul 19, 2017 06:39
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:
Yeah I think "Homer's Phobia" was my first real engagement with John Waters. I was aware of him by reputation but that was my first time with Waters (and you never forget your first time). Oddly enough, I think the next thing I saw him in was a documentary criticizing the MPAA rating system. I was like "Hey this guy is pretty cool. I should watch one of his movies!" Multiple Maniacs was free on YouTube at the time so that was my first actual JW film. Aside from the Waters-ness of it, it's also just a great tour of late 60s Baltimore, like a really trashy time capsule!
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Sep 11, 2017 13:50
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He sat behind me at a broadway play once and looked like a cool dude
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Sep 16, 2017 14:03
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I wish midnight movies were still a thing. I've never seen rocky horror in public, or any of john waters movies, but his films really seem like they need a public audience to become the event they were meant as, from what i've gathered via cultural osmosis.
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Sep 23, 2017 01:02
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I saw Polyester in a packed shoebox theater and had to share an Odorama card with a stranger and it was very nearly the most fun I've ever had at the movies.
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Sep 23, 2017 01:53
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I've always felt JW's vibe is that life is more interesting/rewarding if you strive to commit or collude in some act of transgression, no matter how minor, each day. No matter your circumstances, there's always a bigger square in the vicinity, and it feels good to Freak Them Out. This thread reminded me of the first time I saw Pink Flamingos - it was projected on the wall at a party in a warehouse conversion apartment, chosen nebulously because it's a 'camp classic' and I watched it with twenty or so gay guys and lesbians, the majority of whom seemed to hate it by the end. I've often wondered whether Waters would find that hilarious or depressing. (or at least, an artistic success or a failure) Of course, the Infamous Scene At The End was made all the more pungent because the bewildered dachshund puppy that the host couple had recently adopted laid a curling dog nonsense right in front of the screen not three minutes before.
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Sep 23, 2017 03:16
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I love how he punctuates Pink Flamingos with that scene. You think the movie is over and you're already exhausted and disgusted from everything and for no real reason Divine eats dogshit. It's great. I just bought this T shirt 
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Sep 23, 2017 05:38
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It's my dream to own a shirt that has the Patrick Nagle drawing of Divine on it.
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Sep 23, 2017 06:11
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Matinee posted:This thread reminded me of the first time I saw Pink Flamingos - it was projected on the wall at a party in a warehouse conversion apartment, chosen nebulously because it's a 'camp classic' and I watched it with twenty or so gay guys and lesbians, the majority of whom seemed to hate it by the end. I've often wondered whether Waters would find that hilarious or depressing. (or at least, an artistic success or a failure) Life is beautiful sometimes.
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Sep 23, 2017 07:42
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My local theater (the Texas Theatre) used to play this before movies and it made me laugh/smile pretty much every time. He is absurdly clever. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YnpofBtijF8 Matinee posted:This thread reminded me of the first time I saw Pink Flamingos - it was projected on the wall at a party in a warehouse conversion apartment, chosen nebulously because it's a 'camp classic' and I watched it with twenty or so gay guys and lesbians, the majority of whom seemed to hate it by the end. I've often wondered whether Waters would find that hilarious or depressing. (or at least, an artistic success or a failure) Not to sound too handwring-y/elitist over other people's tastes (because I don't think Pink Flamingos is a super easy watch), but this kind of derision/uninterested dismissal is kind of my experience trying to introduce my circle of gay friends to any offbeat/older movies. I think when you don't grow up feeling quite as marginalized as the generations before it's harder to really connect with things like "Paris Is Burning" or John Waters. warez fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Sep 23, 2017 |
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Sep 23, 2017 10:20
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