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Tony Montana posted:Bill Gates was and still is a business person. He never got his CS degree from Harvard, so he is a business guy first and a coder second. Marketing was always Microsoft's strong suit. He knows more about basically everything that you ever will. Yeah, and he doesn't know poo poo about gently caress outside of how to make and keep money when you already have family money and connections to start with. For example, education.
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Mar 8, 2017 02:24
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Tony Montana posted:Ugh. So who are you to say this? I'm a father in my 30's dummy. Globalization helps some in the US and hurts some others. On average it's probably a wash at worst in terms of narrow criteria like jobs but the problems globalization brings pale in comparison to the threat of nationalism and a breakdown of the global order. At worst worldwide conflict would be planet threatening in the nuclear and drone era but even a cold war lite with China would make things far worse that what they've been for the past 3 decades and the first things to go would be things like climate change cooperation. I agree the anti-globalization aspect of Trumps platform has resonated but it's also potentially the worst part. I think the dems have no choice but to adopt some of the populist messaging but need to turn it outward. Ultimately fear of trade, fear of terrorists and fear of global institutions reflects weakness and those things need to be turned on Trump in a couple ways. First, fear is weakness and it must be called out as such. You build a wall when you're afraid. You keep people out when you're afraid. You avoid open trade when you're afraid you can't compete. Why is America afraid? It can only be afraid if it thinks its weak. Fear literally soaks everything Trump says and does and if you want to see the contrast watch Reagan. There is tremendous opportunity, I think, to pick up the mantle of Reagean-esque optimism and patriotism with an ultimately global left leaning outlook.
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Mar 8, 2017 02:37
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asdf32 posted:I'm a father in my 30's dummy. I get what you're saying (I think) and agree in principle, but the way we currently define and implement globalization is a thing done purely for the benefit of global capital and nothing else. If the rest of us get a scrap of benefits here or there, it's incidental.
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Mar 8, 2017 02:57
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Kilroy posted:"Free trade no matter what" means competing directly with countries where workers are paid in company scrip and live in dormitories. If that's what you're after you can count me the gently caress out. Everyone has benefitted from the lack of global conflict and no one has benefitted more from globalization than a billion poor Chinese people. Who gives a poo poo either way about some of the global elite who skimmed some off the top in the process. Honestly even the worst case interpretation of the current global order which believes in a global oligarchical elite is better than the conflict which would follow from the nationalist alternative. At least the global elite might cooperate on climate change if only to save their water-front villas. asdf32 fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 03:21
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asdf32 posted:Globalization helps some in the US and hurts some others. On average it's probably a wash at worst in terms of narrow criteria like jobs but the problems globalization brings pale in comparison to the threat of nationalism and a breakdown of the global order. At worst worldwide conflict would be planet threatening in the nuclear and drone era but even a cold war lite with China would make things far worse that what they've been for the past 3 decades and the first things to go would be things like climate change cooperation. This is a pretty good example of why the left is so fractured. Free trade and globalization isn't a wash. It's a highly destructive thing that has seriously harmed large portions of our population. It hurts the middle class. It hurts the lower class. It hurts union workers. It hurts everybody besides giant corporations that can easily shift their capital around and insulated elites that don't have to worry about their job getting exported/labor imported/automated (yet) The current rise of far-right nationalism around the world is a direct result of the failure of neo-liberalism. People feel helpless and they're reaching out to any alternative that's presented. Whether it's Trump or Bernie or Brexit or whatever. These other movements are saying we know you're hurting, we know you're angry and we're going to change things in your favor. Compare that to Hillary's tone-deaf messaging of 'America has never stopped being great' when things aren't going great for most Americans. You can try to frame these angry people as weak babies terrified of our globalist future they don't fit in but it will do little to dampen the damage they'll cause when you don't present them with a real alternative outside of opportunists like Trump. asdf32 posted:Honestly even the worst case interpretation of the current global order which believes in a global oligarchical elite is better than the conflict which would follow from the nationalist alternative. I don't understand why you think nationalist = guaranteed conflict as if it isn't the neocons/establishment democrats currently banging the drums of war; globalization = conflict free as if we haven't been waging proxy wars and every other type of warfare outside of direct conflict with most of the existing super powers for the past 50+ years. asdf32 posted:Who gives a poo poo either way about some of the global elite who skimmed some off the top in the process. jfc
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Mar 8, 2017 04:31
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The Kingfish posted:We're not going to destroy the two party system. We're going to take over one of the two parties wear it around like the alien from MiB. The DNC can't do anything to hinder Trump until 2018 at the absolute earliest anyway. Okay, so you're going to disenfranchise a substantial portion of the American populace then, in the hopes that there's a silent groundswell of whatever the gently caress you stupid motherfuckers call your ideology. Good luck with that.
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Mar 8, 2017 04:36
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asdf32 posted:Everyone has benefitted from the lack of global conflict and no one has benefitted more from globalization than a billion poor Chinese people. Who gives a poo poo either way about some of the global elite who skimmed some off the top in the process. You can talk about Chinese people all you want - no one gives a gently caress about that if their local economy is being hollowed out and if anything it just makes them angrier. I don't really care how irrational or selfish that anger is (and in fact I don't think it's wholly irrational or selfish, to be honest) I just care that it exists and must be dealt with somehow.
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Mar 8, 2017 04:49
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People in China weren't "driven to poverty" in the 1970s or 1980s. You're ignorant on a colossal level if your picture of global economic development is that everywhere was prosperous until 1975 when neoliberalism made everyone poor.
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Mar 8, 2017 04:54
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You are right, liberalism also made people poor.
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Mar 8, 2017 04:58
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Brainiac Five posted:Okay, so you're going to disenfranchise a substantial portion of the American populace then, in the hopes that there's a silent groundswell of whatever the gently caress you stupid motherfuckers call your ideology. I'm deeply excited for when centrists like yourself have no party to call your own.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:03
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The Kingfish posted:I'm deeply excited for when centrists like yourself have no party to call your own. Fully agree with this.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:07
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The Kingfish posted:I'm deeply excited for when centrists like yourself have no party to call your own. Is there any kind of basis in reality to this smugness that is oozing from this post? Or from posts where you suggest you'd be in the position to purge anyone?
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Mar 8, 2017 05:11
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The Kingfish posted:I'm deeply excited for when centrists like yourself have no party to call your own. Crowsbeak posted:Fully agree with this. People get that you look to the Liberal Democratic Party of Japan and the Partido Revolucionario Institucional of Mexico as it existed from 1929 to 2000 as models for American politics. You don't need to repeat it like the birdbrains you are.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:13
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Moderate democrats are going to wake up one day and find themselves as irrelevant as the moderate Republicans. This country is going so far the left you won't even recognize it.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:16
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The Kingfish posted:Moderate democrats are going to wake up one day and find themselves as irrelevant as the moderate Republicans. This country is going so far the left you won't even recognize it. I understand that that is what your heart and best intentions tell you, but what do the facts tell you? Could you throw some our way when you have the chance?
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Mar 8, 2017 05:19
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The Kingfish posted:Moderate democrats are going to wake up one day and find themselves as irrelevant as the moderate Republicans. This country is going so far the left you won't even recognize it. Judging on the opinions of you and Crowsbeak, what's actually going to happen is I'll wake up to the Sons of Bernie executing me for being a degenerate fag, right alongside my neighbor for having gotten an abortion. So I guess I won't recognize it by virtue of not recognizing it as "leftist".
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Mar 8, 2017 05:19
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Internet Leftists are replacing the Four Olds with the One Old. Old People. And they must be destroyed.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:21
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Brainiac Five posted:People in China weren't "driven to poverty" in the 1970s or 1980s. You're ignorant on a colossal level if your picture of global economic development is that everywhere was prosperous until 1975 when neoliberalism made everyone poor. Let me quote somebody who's trying to co-opt planks of what use to be the Democratic Party quote:"The globalists gutted the American working class and created a middle class in Asia. The issue now is about Americans looking to not get hosed over. If we deliver" — by "we" he means the Trump White House — "we'll get 60 percent of the white vote, and 40 percent of the black and Hispanic vote and we'll govern for 50 years. That's what the Democrats missed. They were talking to these people with companies with a $9 billion market cap employing nine people. It's not reality. They lost sight of what the world is about." ____________ The Kingfish posted:Moderate democrats are going to wake up one day and find themselves as irrelevant as the moderate Republicans. This country is going so far the left you won't even recognize it.   
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Mar 8, 2017 05:24
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Brainiac Five posted:Judging on the opinions of you and Crowsbeak, what's actually going to happen is I'll wake up to the Sons of Bernie executing me for being a degenerate fag, right alongside my neighbor for having gotten an abortion. So I guess I won't recognize it by virtue of not recognizing it as "leftist". Hey effectronica can you move your insane projection posts into another thread where no one has to see them.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:24
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Brainiac Five posted:People get that you look to the Liberal Democratic Party of Japan and the Partido Revolucionario Institucional of Mexico as it existed from 1929 to 2000 as models for American politics. You don't need to repeat it like the birdbrains you are. Yes I would like my side to have an electoral monopoly. The point of politics is winning and making your vision of society come to fruition. Also sons of Bernie I like that. Maybe I should start a gun club with that name. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 05:26
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Brainiac Five posted:Judging on the opinions of you and Crowsbeak, what's actually going to happen is I'll wake up to the Sons of Bernie executing me for being a degenerate fag, right alongside my neighbor for having gotten an abortion. So I guess I won't recognize it by virtue of not recognizing it as "leftist". If you have a party position then keep your eyes peeled for a mobilized leftist movement howling for your position. The Left is going to take over the party.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:27
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Brainiac Five posted:People in China weren't "driven to poverty" in the 1970s or 1980s. You're ignorant on a colossal level if your picture of global economic development is that everywhere was prosperous until 1975 when neoliberalism made everyone poor.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:28
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Call Me Charlie posted:Let me quote somebody who's trying to co-opt planks of what use to be the Democratic Party The Democratic Party used to be obsessed with hating China and Japan? Funny, I thought Ronald Reagan was a Republican and it was Republican auto executives whining the most about how it just wasn't fair the Japanese were kicking their asses at car design. Fiction posted:Hey effectronica can you move your insane projection posts into another thread where no one has to see them. Can you disassociate yourself from the transphobes and antiabortion wackos so you don't get hurt when the hour comes to deal with them? Crowsbeak posted:Yes I would like my side to have an electoral monopoly. The point of politics is winning and making your vision of society come to fruition. You should probably look up a little bit about the parties I mentioned, because they're pretty relevant even if you find nothing wrong with a one-party oligarchic dictatorship in principle. Kilroy posted:Working-class white Americans had a good deal more economic power and leverage in their lives 40 years ago than they do now. You can call what's happened in the meantime just deserts if you like - I understand the sentiment because I once shared it and to some extent still do, however if Donald Trump sitting behind the Resolute Desk hasn't woken you up to the fact that we can't just totally ignore these people, then I don't know what will or whether it's worth debating someone so blind to The World As It Is. Oh, I see, you're a white nationalist and don't consider non-Americans or minorities people. That tells me a lot about this "leftist movement", to be sure. The Kingfish posted:If you have a party position then keep your eyes peeled for a mobilized leftist movement howling for your position. The Left is going to take over the party. Are you going back to accusing me of being Huma Abedin? Anyways, I guess I should start laying minefields. Brainiac Five fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 05:30
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Fiction posted:Hey effectronica can you move your insane projection posts into another thread where no one has to see them. You haven't put him on ignore yet? Edit: People, come on. You all realize he's trolling right? He's basically the reason the ignore button was built. readingatwork fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 05:31
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Brainiac Five posted:
Also Effectronica I consider all Americans to be my brothers or sisters regardless of their origin. Because of that I don't want their jobs being taken by the financiers and moved somewhere else. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Mar 8, 2017 |
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Mar 8, 2017 05:34
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Crowsbeak posted:Well of course we'll be different we'll not sell out to neoliberals. What is it that you have that will make you immune to whatever got them to "sell out"?
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Mar 8, 2017 05:36
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Crowsbeak posted:Well of course we'll be different we'll not sell out to neoliberals. The brain trust of the Bernie movement- the PRI wasn't corrupt until 1979 and the LDP wasn't corrupt or a right-wing party until the 1990s. I guess knowing things would make you a "Yalie bitch", as Kingfish so charmingly calls anyone that doesn't fetishize ignorance and stupidity.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:37
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Brainiac Five posted:Oh, I see, you're a white nationalist and don't consider non-Americans or minorities people. That tells me a lot about this "leftist movement", to be sure. I don't think leftists need to go out of their way to disclaim that they've got it out for social justice and identity politics every damned time they talk about economics.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:38
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Brainiac Five posted:The brain trust of the Bernie movement- the PRI wasn't corrupt until 1979 and the LDP wasn't corrupt or a right-wing party until the 1990s. I guess knowing things would make you a "Yalie bitch", as Kingfish so charmingly calls anyone that doesn't fetishize ignorance and stupidity. Effectronica jerks his dick off to the Ivies what a shocker
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Mar 8, 2017 05:39
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Kilroy posted:I specifically pointed out that white working-class people had that economic power and leverage, because if I just said "working class" you'd be lecturing me about how working class minorities had no such power - and you'd be right. You're saying "90% of the population being driven into poverty" motherfucker. No matter how you disclaim it, your actions show that you only care about a single segment of the world population and the rest can go hang, because the only criticism you can offer of the Washington Consensus, not that you know what that is, is that it hurt Americans. The only criticism you can offer of NAFTA is that it hurt Americans. The Kingfish posted:Effectronica jerks his dick off to the Ivies what a shocker The worship of ignorance is nothing more or less than a desire to dehumanize oneself, so I guess all your posts are just a cry to be treated like an animal rather than a human being. But unfortunately I am a sadist and will continue to demand you use what brain cells you haven't destroyed.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:40
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Brainiac Five posted:The brain trust of the Bernie movement- the PRI wasn't corrupt until 1979 and the LDP wasn't corrupt or a right-wing party until the 1990s. I guess knowing things would make you a "Yalie bitch", as Kingfish so charmingly calls anyone that doesn't fetishize ignorance and stupidity. Also if something hurt's one country, you should be against it. Period.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:42
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Crowsbeak posted:Well the Ivies have to much influence over the American political process. Also if this movement keeps pure for nearly 70 years that would be beautiful. The LDP was founded as a right-wing party filled with the ranks of people who had supported the Empire of Japan and the Fumimaro/Tojo cabinets. The PRI won its elections via fraud from its foundation in 1929 and ran a corporatist dictatorship up until 2000. Whining about knowledge as being a thing for women/homosexuals is hurting the country, so I am against it, against you, and against the Bernie cult.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:47
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Brainiac Five posted:The worship of ignorance is nothing more or less than a desire to dehumanize oneself, so I guess all your posts are just a cry to be treated like an animal rather than a human being. But unfortunately I am a sadist and will continue to demand you use what brain cells you haven't destroyed. You think the Ivies are antithesis to ignorance. Which is pretty embarrassing.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:48
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Brainiac Five posted:You're saying "90% of the population being driven into poverty" motherfucker. No matter how you disclaim it, your actions show that you only care about a single segment of the world population and the rest can go hang, because the only criticism you can offer of the Washington Consensus, not that you know that is, is that it hurt Americans. The only criticism you can offer of NAFTA is that it hurt Americans.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:48
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The Kingfish posted:You think the Ivies are antithesis to ignorance. Which is pretty embarrassing. I know that squeaking about how knowledge is for bitches is a sign that the speaker is in the final stages of masculinity poisoning. Kilroy posted:As it relates to American politics not a lot else matters, and the more capitalists grind the working and middle classes in America into the dirt, the less that little bit matters still. We don't have a one-world socialist government yet. Until we do, policies which weaken our institutions and inflame domestic tensions to the point where white nationalists can seize control of the most powerful military and the largest economy, seem like a bad idea. In my opinion. Interesting how when it's ideals that involve helping people who aren't white men, Bernlords are suddenly all about pragmatism and compromise and bartering things away.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:51
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Still don't see how dominating politics for a generation or two is bad. Especially when one's enemies are people who want millions to go without healthare,a nd want to get rid of OSHA.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:52
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Crowsbeak posted:Still don't see how dominating politics for a generation or two is bad. Especially when one's enemies are people who want millions to go without healthare,a nd want to get rid of OSHA. Well, Crowsbeak, what happens after that generation is done and everyone remembers the Bernieist dictatorship and votes against its existence and suddenly the country's political landscape is dominated by conservatism again because y'all are moron fuckfaces?
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Mar 8, 2017 05:54
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Brainiac Five posted:The only criticism you can offer of NAFTA is that it hurt Americans. NAFTA also hurt Mexicans http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/11/24/what-weve-learned-from-nafta/under-nafta-mexico-suffered-and-the-united-states-felt-its-pain
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Mar 8, 2017 05:55
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Call Me Charlie posted:People generally only care about their local area and won't put others from another region over their own well-being? What a shocker! The fact that you're willing to embrace this tells me all I need to know about minority rights under Bernieism. Like, you keep bringing up rural Rust Belters, so your government would definitely keep poisoning the waters of Flint since most rural Michiganders don't give a drat about black people dying. Anyways, you loving moron, the point of that statement is that you all only give a god drat about (white) Americans until someone points out you do, at which point you scuttle like cockroaches to defend yourselves.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:57
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Brainiac Five posted:Interesting how when it's ideals that involve helping people who aren't white men, Bernlords are suddenly all about pragmatism and compromise and bartering things away. Crowsbeak posted:Also Effectronica I consider all Americans to be my brothers or sisters regardless of their origin. Because of that I don't want their jobs being taken by the financiers and moved somewhere else.
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Mar 8, 2017 05:59
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