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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:"Everyday" Eddie Guardado isn't dead though? https://twitter.com/glenperkins/status/613337439894155264
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Mar 21, 2017 00:26
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Dejan Bimble posted:Everyone's heard of the Jeff Gordon T-rex car, That car was amazing. The entire lore behind that thing is one of the most fascinating experiments in gently caress-ups that worked out. At one point the story from Evernham was that they were trying to play Earnhardt games... Wait. Lets back up. Old man Earnhardt loved the Allstar race. Next to the 500 it was the most important race he ran all year. To the point that he made sure they had a new car that was completely tricked out and borderline if not outright illegal. He NEEDED to win that race. His proudest moment in racing after the 500 win, was Jr winning the Allstar race in one of his DEI cars his rookie year. This spread to the rest of the garage because well, its racing and the very nature is I have to beat that guy every week. This got to the point that they would literally compete with paint jobs for that race, again, because of Earnhardt. So fast forward to 1997. Evernham has a new car built for testing based off of some theoretical engineering. They throw the usual Charlotte setup on it and head down to the track for some testing. Its complete trash. Everything and anything they did couldn't fix that piece of poo poo. As the session was winding down, figuring they were just going to melt it down and recycle all the metal they decided to just gently caress around and turned springs upside down, moved them to opposite corners, put some dumbass shock setup in, screwed with the roll bar in some unheard of way. All just for shits and giggles. Then had Jeff take a couple laps. It.. Uh.... Worked. The lap times were ridiculous. So much so, they called him off the track, covered and loaded the card, and told everyone to never speak of what happened. Then showed up to the Allstar event with it. After they poo poo stomped the field, Nascar told them that while it was legal at the time, never bring the car back. There is a clip from about 1999 where Ray talked about it that turns up in every 3rd Jeff Gordon documentary that airs but for some reason I can't find it on google. Racing isn't a history on cheating. Its playing games with grey areas. Which is what you should expect when you have a sport involving engineers. Inventing better things is literally what they do.
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Mar 21, 2017 01:58
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Infidel Castro posted:Jon Bois actaully did a Pretty Good on this. I had seen the Pretty Good of Georgia Tech's 222-0 game against Cumberland, I didn't realize it was a whole series. I have since watched all of them. Great stuff. And I remember him from Progressive Boink and the MLB AOL Instant Messenger chat logs. That 222-0 game is a result of cheating so it counts for this thread. Cumberland played GT in baseball and hired a local semi-pro team to be ringers. Cumberland won 22-0, pissing off GT's baseball and football coach, a fella named John Heisman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doZzrsDJo-4
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Mar 21, 2017 02:36
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Some of the response to this seems almost jocular. Like, the team released a bobble head doll with him holding a nail file? I can't imagine a team making a joke out of say, steroid use or gambling. How much of pitchers doing this is just like travelling in the NBA?
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Mar 21, 2017 02:48
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Bob James posted:Every member of the Harlem Globetrotters made a Faustian bargain in exchange for demonic bball powers. Whether or not you consider this cheating is up to you. Globetrotters are great and when my niece went to see them the other day they took pictures with her and signed a ball for her. Also there is a rule in hockey about the stick blade dimensions. This led to an overturned goal in the finals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db1yT0poyys
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Mar 21, 2017 03:48
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take me you ANIMAL posted:Globetrotters are great and when my niece went to see them the other day they took pictures with her and signed a ball for her. Glorious hockey hair on the coach, and he's now rocking the classy sl icked back version.
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Mar 21, 2017 03:59
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This was a couple of years ago in an AHL game. One of the teams had a 2 on 0 breakaway. The goalie, David Leggio, said 'gently caress this' and threw the net off its pegs, which prompts the play to be blown dead. The penalty at the time for such an infraction was a penalty shot. So instead of having a 2 on 0 to deal with, it becomes a 1 on 0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwFIiXBt36U The league made a rules tweak after this, informally known as "the David Leggio rule", which if a goalie is ruled to intentionally do something similiar, not only will a penalty shot still be awarded, but the goalie will be kicked out of the game.
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Mar 21, 2017 04:25
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glowing-fish posted:Some of the response to this seems almost jocular. Like, the team released a bobble head doll with him holding a nail file? Scuffing or greasing the ball is basically non-existent in baseball any more. The last big scandal with it I can think of was Kenny Rogers in 2006 for the Tigers, and that was a post-season run thing, not like "dude who did it his entire career".
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Mar 21, 2017 04:58
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Genocide Tendency posted:That car was amazing. The entire lore behind that thing is one of the most fascinating experiments in gently caress-ups that worked out. At one point the story from Evernham was that they were trying to play Earnhardt games... Wait. Lets back up. This is fascinating to me, because it seems to be set apart from every other topic in this thread in that there's no defined reason it was cheating, as far as I can tell?
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Mar 21, 2017 05:17
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SilvergunSuperman posted:This is fascinating to me, because it seems to be set apart from every other topic in this thread in that there's no defined reason it was cheating, as far as I can tell? Nothing any of the teams in car racing do is cheating until it's fast and is later outlawed. Cars are intricate things with thousands of things you can shave off or move around or switch to get just small increments in speed.
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Mar 21, 2017 08:56
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I'm surprised at the small number of posts from the Formula 1 Worst Thread™ so far so I'll add my favourite. Like all great controversies and conflicts this one takes place between Germany and Britain, or more specifically, German F1 driver (and arguably best driver ever) Michael Schumacher and his British rival at the time Damon Hill (son of the legendary Graham Hill). It's the 1994 F1 championship, remembered also for the death of Ayrton Senna, Hill's teammate, 4 races into the season. The season has had the usual dramas involving loopholes (and outright cheating) in the cars, but in the end the championship battle comes down to the last race. Hill is trailing Schumacher by 1 point, meaning he has to finish ahead of Schumacher (and in a points position) to win the championship. This video explains what happens next- Schumacher is leading in the blue/green Benetton car, Hill close behind in 2nd in the Williams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91JoW4mSiZo Schumacher loses control of his car while leading the race, slithers off the track and hits the wall. While his car initially looks fine on TV, he's seriously damaged the steering rods and it's pretty much undrivable- meaning that he can't finish the race and Hill can cruise past him and win the championship. Hill comes round the corner a split second later, sees Schumi going slowly (but doesn't know his car is damaged to the extent that it is) sees the opportunity to overtake and dives down the inside at the next corner to overtake. Meanwhile, and in a split second of calculation that you have to admire even if you don't condone the cheating- Schumacher has figured out how badly his car is damaged, and that he'll never finish the race- and does the only thing available to him. As Damon Hill pulls alongside to overtake, he turns in and drives into the side of Hill, the wheels touch and he is vaulted into the air. In the aftermath, Schumacher's car is further wrecked and he trundles to a halt at the side of the road, Hill continues but it becomes apparent the collision has damaged his car as well, and they can't fix it enough in the pits to even allow him to cruise around in the minimum points-paying position for him to get the title, he has to retire heartbroken and Schumacher wins the title. For whatever reason the race stewards decide not to issue a penalty to Schumacher who has always maintained he "didn't see" Hill when he turned in. Cue lots of angry British people who always love to get behind a good sports controversy especially when "Are Brave Lads" are on the receiving end of a dodgy decision. There's a sort-of happy ending- Hill eventually did win the Championship in '96, becoming the first son of an F1 champion to win it himself.
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Mar 21, 2017 13:06
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glowing-fish posted:Some of the response to this seems almost jocular. Like, the team released a bobble head doll with him holding a nail file? 
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Mar 21, 2017 13:47
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SilvergunSuperman posted:This is fascinating to me, because it seems to be set apart from every other topic in this thread in that there's no defined reason it was cheating, as far as I can tell? Right. As I said, racing rarely has cheating. It has people who work in grey areas better than anyone else largely because they use cars, or in some cases, drivers. The T-Rex car when you got into it, literally changed how suspension parts were mounted, the type of tubing used for the chassis (which changed where body and structural supports are located allowing for potential aerodynamic and weight distribution advantages), the entire fundamental structure of the car was different. At the time the car was built within the rules because they worked in areas either not addressed or were underdressed by the rule book. Ray Evernham did that his entire career really. He was essentially Smokey Yunick lite and that car was is 7/8ths Chevelle. NtotheTC posted:I'm surprised at the small number of posts from the Formula 1 Worst Thread™ so far so I'll add my favourite. DIdn't Senna win a championship because he essentially wrecked Prost going into the first turn of the last race? I might be misremembering it and googling would be  .
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Mar 21, 2017 19:29
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Think I read something about the T-Rex car where they took a working car and asked "why is this done this way?" and if the rulebook didn't explicitly state why it had to be done like that they started looking for a better way
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Mar 21, 2017 19:35
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Proud Christian Mom posted:Think I read something about the T-Rex car where they took a working car and asked "why is this done this way?" and if the rulebook didn't explicitly state why it had to be done like that they started looking for a better way iirc in Gordon's bio, his teammates Terry Labonte and Ricky Craven were using more or less prototypes to the T-Rex car but couldn't find a setup that made it click not until Gordon and Evernham got one of those cars and threw stuff at it.
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Mar 21, 2017 20:41
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F-1 cheats Red Bull won multiple championships with a front wing that clearly moved, but the FIA could never prove it somehow. Aero surfaces in F-1 were not allowed to move. Also I think McLaren had a system where the driver could remap the tourqe of the engine depending on how he manipulated the clutch, which was effectively traction control in an era where that was banned. There's plenty of cheating in F-1. And not just flexing the rules type. My favourite is getting around minimum weight rules by having the driver run over to his crew for a celebratory hug. At which point the crew members would sneak bricks into his coveralls
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Mar 21, 2017 21:59
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The entirety of the New England Patriots --- mcmagic, probably
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Mar 21, 2017 23:07
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They designed the carbon fibre to not flex under the specific tests the FIA used to test, which were moronically always the same. F1 operates under the basic principle of obeying the letter of the law and the letter of the law only. And then going a bit beyond that until you get caught. The current one is the idea that in order to get around the rules against performance enhancing additives in the fuel some teams are intentionally burning oil in the engine with the additives added. Then you have actual incidents of industrial espionage, passing hundreds of pages of detailed design information and data from Ferrari to McLaren, and a less publicised incident from McLaren to Renault.
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Mar 21, 2017 23:13
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Genocide Tendency posted:Right. As I said, racing rarely has cheating. It has people who work in grey areas better than anyone else largely because they use cars, or in some cases, drivers. I appreciate the breakdown, the exact issues were more apparent in the other stories where the recounts of the T-Rex car were mostly "Really? gently caress off with that thing."
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Mar 21, 2017 23:42
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Tsaedje posted:.
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Mar 22, 2017 00:37
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And then there's the Sochi Olympics
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Mar 22, 2017 01:12
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It's still amazing that Sammy Sosa used a corked bat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j-oYaY-_88
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Mar 22, 2017 01:20
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Jonny Nox posted:F-1 cheats Red Bull won multiple championships with a front wing that clearly moved, but the FIA could never prove it somehow. Aero surfaces in F-1 were not allowed to move. Was it F1 or IndyCar where someone had a hole in the driver tub that allowed the driver to essentially redirect the airflow to change the downforce on the car at will? Also, they require drivers to take weight multiple times in the season because they would gorge themselves silly, show up for pre-season weigh-ins like 20lbs heavy, then cut back down after. When you get into driver and car weight fuckery, its hilarious some of the poo poo that goes down.
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Mar 22, 2017 02:51
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Genocide Tendency posted:Was it F1 or IndyCar where someone had a hole in the driver tub that allowed the driver to essentially redirect the airflow to change the downforce on the car at will? For various reasons no moveable aerodynamic devices are allowed in F1. This has led to a number of controversies. Renault had a mass damping spring outlawed because other teams complained and put pressure on the rulemakers to decide its movement affected the aero and was therefore an aerodynamic device despite being entirely inside the car and thus completely shielded from airflow. A few years later, McLaren realised there was a loophole: the driver wasn't a mechanical device and therefore if you directed some airflow into the cockpit you could use part of the driver's body as a fluid switch to redirect air over the rear wing and massively reduce drag on the straights. This was hilarious and amazing and entirely safe in the McLaren because they had designed the car around it so that the driver just needed to move their knee a bit on the straight. Because the monocoques are locked in at the start of the season the only way other teams could copy it was to force their drivers to take one hand off the wheel and use the back of their hand to cover the a hole in the only place they could put it. The FIA ruled this was unsafe and banned it for everyone. Because the racing had been a lot more fun with these devices to essentially turn the rear wing on and off the ban on moveable aero was lifted in the specific circumstance of an adjustable rear wing flap. The weight thing must be Indy because in F1 the drivers and cars are weighed regularly (because of the aforementioned habit of team mechanics slipping lead shot into drivers' overalls after the race)
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Mar 22, 2017 03:32
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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:Albert Belle had someone climb through the vents, Die Hard style, to retrieve a corked bat from the umps office Jason Grimsley, I think.
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Mar 22, 2017 04:15
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Someone please dig up the Michael Jordan steroid thread
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Mar 22, 2017 16:55
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Timby posted:Jason Grimsley, I think. Yes. It was Albert Belle's bat. Then didn't Jason Grimsley help Roger Clemens get HGH? The funniest thing about the corked bat stuff is that it literally doesn't work. It's physics 101, you will not hit the ball farther.
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Mar 26, 2017 07:02
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fd
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Mar 26, 2017 07:08
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ElwoodCuse posted:Yes. It was Albert Belle's bat. Then didn't Jason Grimsley help Roger Clemens get HGH? I didn't think it was about hitting further so much as getting the head of the bat around just a little bit faster giving the batter more time to react to a pitch. Of course, this "advantage" is completely negligible given how hard pitchers throw and how short the distance is between the mound and the plate (the ball arrives in about 400 milliseconds and a batter has to decide to swing in about 250 milliseconds) , but players have and always will do anything to get even the slightest of perceived advantage.
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Mar 26, 2017 22:38
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Players do lots of dumb poo poo that does nothing, like those titanium necklaces, but yes, a corked bat is an undeniable disadvantage.
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Mar 27, 2017 01:20
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Tsaedje posted:For various reasons no moveable aerodynamic devices are allowed in F1. This has led to a number of controversies. Renault had a mass damping spring outlawed because other teams complained and put pressure on the rulemakers to decide its movement affected the aero and was therefore an aerodynamic device despite being entirely inside the car and thus completely shielded from airflow. What the gently caress, rich people racing is crazy as hell
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Mar 27, 2017 01:30
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DJExile posted:Someone please dig up the Michael Jordan steroid thread I loved the story about how he got pissed off at the actor / player who was the body double for the Gatorade commercial where old Jordan plays young Jordan. The "You should have dunked it" was unscripted and angry.
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Mar 27, 2017 02:16
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CannonFodder posted:I loved the story about how he got pissed off at the actor / player who was the body double for the Gatorade commercial where old Jordan plays young Jordan. Found it! 
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Mar 27, 2017 02:30
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Tsaedje posted:The weight thing must be Indy because in F1 the drivers and cars are weighed regularly (because of the aforementioned habit of team mechanics slipping lead shot into drivers' overalls after the race) Pre-1995 only the weight of the car was regulated and the FIA weighed the drivers at the start of the season and then weighed the car with the driver inside at the races, they then subtracted the recorded driver weight to get the weight of the car. That meant the cars could be run at below the minimum weight if the drivers showed up to the weigh-in lighter than they would be later in the year. In 1995 the rules were changed so that the combined driver and car weight was what mattered, but the FIA hadn't figured out the incredibly complex process of "having a scale next to where the cars stop after the race" so they couldn't always weigh the drivers after the races. So at the begining of the season everyone was weighed and these reference weights were added to the car weight taken after races when the drivers were "unavailble" to be weighed. Unsurprisingly nearly every driver showed up to the pre-season weigh-in at least 10lbs heavier than in 1994 with Schumacher and Hakkinen gaining 19lbs each. Karl Wendlinger somehow managed to gain 22lbs while also spending a few weeks in a coma following an accident at Monaco.
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Mar 27, 2017 14:23
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ElwoodCuse posted:Players do lots of dumb poo poo that does nothing, like those titanium necklaces, but yes, a corked bat is an undeniable disadvantage. A corked bat will help you be a better hitter because you will have better plate coverage, since you can swing a longer bat faster than normal (or a normal sized one even faster than you'd otherwise be able to). You can also argue that it will increase your home run totals, but the crux behind that is less in the physics of contact and more in the reality that you'll just be making solid contact more often due to the lighter bat. It's one of those things where it's an advantage but not for the reasons people (including most of those who actually do it) think.
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Mar 27, 2017 14:53
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Albert Belle was infamous for using corked bats and mashed 50 homers and 50 doubles one season and is to date the only player to have done that iirc. He owns.
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Mar 27, 2017 17:08
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If a player thinks a corked bat gives them an advantage, that alone is enough to get a small.advantage. The placebo effect extends to athletic performance. That is also why it's a bad idea to try to talk players out of their pointless superstitious rituals.
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Mar 27, 2017 21:25
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DJExile posted:Someone please dig up the Michael Jordan steroid thread "Do you want to win or not?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbaKze622Kg
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Mar 28, 2017 07:25
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take me you ANIMAL posted:Also there is a rule in hockey about the stick blade dimensions. This led to an overturned goal in the finals. I wanted to find a good source about what the actual controversy was with the illegal stick and I found a blog from a former NHL referee which has some interesting illegal stick stories http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Paul-Stewart/Whither-Goest-Thou-Illegal-Stick-Penalty/196/57604 Selected excerpts quote:One day, Freddie came into the rink seeing me lug a trash can with broken sticks and blades from another team's practice. He motioned me to come over to him. My personal favorite quote:Late in the third period, Tampa's Petr Klima scored a go-ahead power play goal to give the Lightning a 4-3 lead. Immediately after the goal was scored, Holmgren motioned me over to the Whalers' bench and told me he was challenging Klima's stick.
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Mar 28, 2017 08:22
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