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^^ Oh, now there's another idea... one of them might be imaginary; while we see them together here, there's no guarantee that they're both actually there until someone talks to them. Ye gods, Prof, when you said you were taking a break, I thought you meant a month or something... or at least a couple of weeks! And here you are, what, not even one week later? (This isn't me complaining, mind you; I am burning with curiosity as to where this is all going, and on my trips to the bookstore, I couldn't help but notice that the translation of the manga is past where we are now, by about an episode and a half, and I did not get the ones past Episode 4,* though I was sorely, sorely tempted to, but these threads are too much fun])OK... Well, first thing I, it seems I was in fact off base with my assertion, because there Kanon and Shannon are, in the same room with Battler. So unless there's something else going on (or unless Shannon is more talented than I thought), they are two people on the island at once. They might still pretend to be each other, though, I like that theory too much to put it in the ground just yet, as well as the theory that they're totally working together... But Natsuhi is the culprit this time around? Whut? drat it Battler, you should have stuck around more; I'm as aggravated by Cackler and Witchdorf as you are, but the last thing you want to do is let assholes like them control the playing field. They seem more and more like primordial rear end in a top hat gods than ever, and the games they play, as Sir Pterry described them, resemble Snakes and Ladders with greased rungs, but taking your ball and going home is not and has never been an option, and even Beatrice apparently knew that, since she set up the :"game board" and the rules without their help and input. Refusal to play the game is not resistance... but you're gonna do you, so let's just be thankful Blue and Red aren't doing anything crazy like adding more ill-dressed weirdos to the- ... now who the gently caress are you? * But I did get everything else! And you are absolutely right, Prof: Kei Natsumi is the best artist for this) resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Mar 17, 2017 |
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Mar 17, 2017 20:54
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Aumanor posted:Holy poo poo, Krauss is an idiot. Indeed.  It makes Battler's incompetence a little bit easier to understand, given who the role models in his life are- it would seem incompetence and credulousness runs in this family. "Space tourism"? My god; Natsuhi does seem like the more common-sense partner of the two, and given she hasn't exactly been portrayed as a mental powerhouse herself, well... that's saying something.And now the stress of impending poverty has caused her to turn the dear, departed old Kinzo into an imaginary friend; he's obviously fake, but I think we are getting the real Krauss here, because people like him get rolled all the time, and do in fact sign away their power of attorney. e: KataraniSword posted:Moon tourism is the future, mark my words. No wonder Krauss is worried about the rest of the fam learning about this. Eva would have a goddamn field day. resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Mar 20, 2017 |
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Mar 20, 2017 15:15
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So Natsuhi wasn't just playing along with the conspiracy to hide Kinzo's death... it was her idea. I thought it might have been Krauss, but as these updates have shown, he's weak-willed and kind of an idiot, so someone had to take the reigns, and I think Kinzo would approve of an idea like this, from what we've heard. drat, Natsuhi, I sold you short... but here again, we have another lady attributing her own talent and initiative to following the spirit of a man, or some such. The answer is indeed always patriarchy, it would seem. But that's not the only thing about this that's weird- Beato's back, and... appearing before Natsuhi? The one Beatrice used to make faces at for Shannon's entertainment? That's new... and really drat unprecedented, considering Natsuhi's normal attitude toward magic and spirits. And there doesn't even seem to be antagonism on Beato's part at all; she's got her "cute" face on, like when she was talking to Shannon on the beach. Somehow, this doesn't feel consistent: you'd think there'd be at least a little bit of "Hey, stop picking on the servants so much" if this was actually the Beato we've come to know. So is this really her, or the "Beato in Natsuhi's mind," like Kinzo? resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Mar 21, 2017 |
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Mar 21, 2017 14:25
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tiistai posted:Correct me if I'm wrong but are you saying believing in spirits is unprecedented for the woman who has a spirit mirror I had actually forgotten about the spirit mirror, yes... but I also remember that its so-called magical powers have been described by people other than Natsuhi. It's Shannon and the other servants who say that that mirror can defeat Beatrice, but Natsuhi hasn't talked about it at all; she keeps it in a box on her desk, so its entirely possible that the only value it has for her is sentimental.
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Mar 22, 2017 03:58
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ProfessorProf posted:
Well, she's got your number, hasn't she, Battler? Can't just throw out "small bombs" and expect to be taken seriously in a mystery story. But mean as they are, the berries do have a point that the battles of the first game had little to do with mystery; as Berne said, it's anti fantasy- it's denying a witch. Consequently, there existed a lot of confusion as to what we were actually supposed to do- solve the mystery of the death, or merely show that the death occurred through mundane means instead of magical? To identify the right culprit, or simply a culprit? And while some theories were arrived at, it was generally in spite of Battler's flailing than because of it, in looking at the things he was flailing around and building suppositions (which might be totally wrong too, and he did call that Kinzo was dead before any of use, so maybe I shouldn't talk). Now that the mystery genre has been invoked, and someone who knows about those rules (one set of such rules) anyway is at the helm, I wonder if we are going to get closer to the truth of the matter... even if the answer will eventually involve dipping back into the anime well. But truth be told, all I'm thinking about after this episode is what a massively adorable, George-tier dork Krauss apparently was as a younger man  Though if they really did travel to all those countries, I suppose that is further evidence of his not really ever understanding mony or how to work with it... Whatever! Still cute!
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Mar 22, 2017 15:48
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"*giggle*! Figured it out?! Then come on, how are you gonna answer, Battler? Kinzo was just out for a stro~ll. Why don't you do what you usually do and start holding your head, crying 'THIS DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!!'...? C'mon, use that old 'IT'S ALL USELESS' catch phrase and let me hear your classic nonsensical counterargument. There's no way that a human who's supposed to be dead could be walking around, right? Is this all because of some unknown virus called the Rokkenjima Syndrome which causes mass delusions? Or do the scales of a mysterious form of butterfly that only lives on Rokkenjima happen to be hallucinogenic?! Or is it all because a mysterious secret organization called "Yamainu" made an as-of-yet undiscovered drug called Purupurupikopuyo which causes mass delusions?!! Let me hear tons of this wonderful crap,kyaaahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!"
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Jesus Christ. The more time we spend with Berne, the nastier she gets... gently caress me, why did I ever call her "the good one" in my head, or on this forum? Beware of a Witch bearing gifts, evidently... or granting wishes. I mean, we've already established that Natsuhi is probably imagining all of this; what is the point of using red truth to shatter a happy daydream, when it does not serve the higher mystery? Solving mysteries should be cathartic, but this just feels uncomfortable.
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Mar 23, 2017 14:18
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W...what the gently caress is this? No, seriously, what the gently caress? Is this... is this a new character, this late in the game, alluding to yet another secret thing that happened in the past in 1967, the year of the Fallen Beatrice? The rest of the update was known quantities- blah blah Krauss is being strung along and they need more time, blah blah lovely siblings are conspiring to blackmail him, blah blah Rosa's a terrible mother, blah blah Battler's coming, yay... and then whack with a heretofore unknown secret son out for revenge. What the hell did Natsuhi do that day? Did she really have a secret child even Krauss didn't know about? Is this one of Kyrie's criminal pals who dug something up (or thought they did) and is making a move? I'd say this was a red herring that LD threw in to stir poo poo up, but I thought she wasn't allowed to use pieces and actions that are beyond the scope of what Beato would actually allow on the game board... and Natsuhi is sure acting like she does know what the Secret Voice is talking about, so...  What the loving gently caress is going on here?
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Mar 24, 2017 14:59
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Tender Child Loins posted:Hey, Nanjo pulls that outfit off better than I would. I actually think Gaap might perhaps be a personification of the old demon spirits of Rokkenjima. Oh. So you're looking at the epitaph, not as a number or a topographic space on a map, but as a word. A word like "quadrillion"? And the gouging of the the head and so forth to be the removal of those letters? Well... *reads notes* *makes own notes with quadrillion and qilian* Holy poo poo, I think you've got it. I thought you were reaching with the whole "rivers in Korea" thing, but ... Quadrillion without the "six chosen by the key" i.e. the six letters Q I L I A N makes: udrlo. And two of those are next to each other, unseparated by spaces as the others are... Oh god, the "two that are close." (And here I was stuck on body parts and numbers and places on the island. See, this is why you don't let my concrete rear end near riddles.) And what is urdlo? An anagram of lordu. Lord U(shiromiya). Praise my noble name.  It's too perfect, both in its simplicity and its implication in the thinking process of a narcissist like Kinzo, to dismiss. The murders were an entire distraction from the actual riddle then... wow, it really is a question of getting on the right wavelength. But... what now? "None are left alive" meaning there's no more letters, but we should know where the gold is now. So where's the gold? Is it in the chapel, which had that inscription above the door?
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Mar 26, 2017 19:27
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my beloved theory, DR LOU) Again, all of this is contingent on two big assumptions: 1) Kinzo grew up in Taipei and 2) the "key" is Qilian, a station along the Freshwater / Tamsui train line. Simply by the existence of Google Maps, this level of reasoning is possible for TCL. What do you think, goons?
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ProfessorProf posted:So that makes 6, or 11 characters. If tearing apart the two who are close in the second twilight means to kill both of them, that makes 6�, or 13 characters. There's a chance that the word symbolizing the first twilight has 11 or 13 characters. Wait... it couldn't be that easy, could it? If what the epitaph is meant to refer to a word that is 11 letters long, guess which word has eleven letters? Quadrillion. In which case, I do so bow to TCL's superior talent at riddles.  Oh poo poo, indeed.
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Mar 27, 2017 16:04
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Lord Koth posted:It does need to be remembered that Battler has not been called stupid. He was called incompetent in red, but never stupid. He was always sharp enough to solve the riddle if he really tried, but he's never really applied himself to do so no matter what he's occasionally claimed. Well, that's why he's so frustrating to me. If he were portrayed as the typical cheerful brainless idiot you see in most shounen mags, he wouldn't make me nearly as mad, but he's demonstrated more than once that not only is he intelligent, but he genuinely likes learning new things and applying them, so it feels almost like a betrayal whenever he doesn't elect to do that, bad situation or no. I mean, Bern just demonstrated this episode that he's always had the capacity to solve the epitaph, so... why didn't he, with the resources he had at his disposal? Why the cake bombs and all the other ridiculous poo poo when he was the first one to suspect that Kinzo had been dead all along? It's just a bitter pill to swallow for some.
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Mar 28, 2017 03:57
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ProfessorProf posted:
 Really? That's how we're translating this, oh translation team? I gather the intent of the language here- of someone who likes exposing secrets that others want to hide- but do you really want to cheapen that word by using it in this way? I don't know that I'm comfortable here with that. But still... horrible person is horrible, as expected of the pawn of the increasingly capricious witch of miracles. So the gold is real, as proclaimed in red... and will become a real problem, if how such extravagant wealth is usually portrayed in fiction is any indication- particularly detective fiction. The more valuable the riches are, the greater its "curse"... and the more blood pools around it. Congrats, Battler?
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Mar 28, 2017 16:42
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"...You... really have a bad personality."
"Oh? Couldn't you reason that out from the time you learned that I liked solving riddles...?"
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Oh, you bastards. You absolute fuckers. The only dignity you had was that you didn't parade your blinding greed and general failure at life in front of your children, but when one of your kids actually hands you the secret, legendary gold, well, that's when all the pretense drops, isn't it? gently caress you in particular, Rudolph, all that poo poo you said at the grandparent's funeral about "apologizing" and "wanting to be a family again"... and you, Kyrie, your attempts to make nice- it all goes down the tubes when you've got a mountain of gold to consider, doesn't it? You'd happily throw your beloved son on the fire for this, wouldn't you, would consign our Battler to the same cold and bitter path that turned Kinzo into the twisted, mad rear end in a top hat we know today. Just....  I'm glad you all die horribly! I wouldn't blink twice if somebody set a loving fire to your beloved conference room and trapped you all in there!Hmmph. But let us set aside our vindictive rage for the moment. I might have wanted them to die, but you know who didn't? ProfessorProf posted:
The culprit, apparently. This bears examination, because I believe this is the first time in the story where Beato's motivations are examined with red. Once again, Battler's sporadic memory comes up with a fairly solid explanation of motive in the mystery genre. And his reasoning is very solid here. She doesn't want the gold because, hey, she already has it, according to her weird letters... and the idea that the epitaph is some super secret magical ritual is in fact bullshit as well (as I always said it was). But the second part of those reds is interesting as a result... apparently she never derived pleasure from killing anybody although she sure pretended to, and mutilated the bodies certainly looks like she's trying to scare somebody, but all of the perceived targets for her possibly being scared end up dead, so that motivation makes no sense as well. That just leaves Battler, who has to "remember his sin"... but Battler hasn't killed anybody, and the goal was claimed in red that the idea wasn't to make him suffer. So what does this leave? To know. Beatrice wants Battler to know something. Something related to this island... something related to her identity. Which means I do think that she wanted the epitaph to be solved by Battler, and wanted him to come here. But it isn't the gold she wanted him to see, it was the room it was in... she wants the question to be asked of why- not why the gold, but "why the room"? Hidden by secrecy for years, unbeknownst to every one, for somebody to live... or be kept. The answer... isn't going to be good, is it?  (Which, of course, just makes all these horrible people even more horrible that they don't ask that question... even Erika isn't asking, because she's already got what she wanted out of the epitaph. Great detective, my eye.)
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Mar 29, 2017 15:11
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"Yes. In the first place, the gold of the Golden Land belongs to this child. She had absolutely no need to make you find it for her or to snatch it away herself."
"...Let me first speak with the red. Battler-kun isn't the culprit. Battler-kun didn't kill anyone. This can be said of all games."
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Poltergrift posted:What I like about this series, among other things, is that we continue to feel sympathy for Beato and position her, on some level, as our ally in the battle against the real evil witches Ushiromiya Fernkastel, her OC, and Shortcackle, after the story arc whose explicit point was that she exploits that exact type of sympathy to try and eke out a win, in which she was our ally against the real evil witch, Evatrice. It's really fascinating to look at isn't it-how Ryukishi is so good at the art of the paradigm shift. To present a character and a situation one way through facts, and then to completely re-contextualize them in another through the use of new information and context. Beatrice used to make my skin crawl, seen a a towering and creepy monster for her callousness and lack of respect (the Halloween party still makes me shudder), and yet the more it went on, the more I saw that that Beato was a fake, a mask worn to perform a purpose. It was meant to hide a wounded, damaged figure- she was not evil, she was ill. And even after all she did, her image as a monster is still being rehabilitated by Berne and Lambda deciding to come down from the audience box and show everyone what a real monster is...
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Mar 30, 2017 07:08
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First thought of the episode: Well, at least Kyrie seems to care a little about Battler's well being, even if she is still using him to get gold. Second thought: Krauss  Man, I actually feel sorry for him now; he does have moments of being a good husband now and then, glory be, and at least he's willing to accept the consequences of his actions. I'm still amazed at the fact that the best Ushiromiya sibling is Krauss, World's Worst Investor, but I guess that's the story for you- there's that paradigm shift I was talking about.Third thought:  God, I don't even care what Natsuhi did: no one deserves to be terrorized in their own home like this. But the question is, who could be calling now? Who's not in the conference room and could make it? Genji gave her notice so it probably isn't him. And the voice is described as a tenor, and that isn't Gohda or Nanjo, so not them either. Kumasawa? I would assume Natsuhi would recognize her voice, but she did praise Kuma's acting talent a little while ago... and the only others that fit the bill are Erika and the kids. I don't see George doing this at all, although I suppose he could, but what about Erika? One of Knox's rules is that the detective can't be the culprit, but if we define "culprit" as "the murderer"* then these calls have nothing to do with any murders, and there's no guarantee that these phone calls are connected to them either. So could Erika be making these calls to mess with Natsuhi somehow? *Of course, now that I say that... it really does sound like the creep on the phone is setting Natsuhi up somehow by staying in her room all night... is this an attempt to implicate her in the murders by removing any alibi? I mean, what's she gonna say if the murderer's happen, "I was in my room all night" and expect that to fly with no vouchers? If that were true, then the person making the call would have to be at least an accomplice, if not the murderer himself. But does Knox's 7th cover accomplices, or just murderers?
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Mar 30, 2017 15:16
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So the letters show up again, mysteriously... And there uis no mention of the epitaph, as it has been solved. But does that mean there will be no murders? I doubt it... especially now that there's ten tons of really good reasons to kill somebody. Poor Battler, he sounds perfectly miserable in these scenes. But... ProfessorProf posted:
Here we have a reminder that the circumstances of his birth are weird, in a manner the game has not specified. And no age of any character thus far has been confirmed in red... Could he have been the caller? I don't see how that's possible for the last call, during all this hullabaloo, but... maybe the first one, the one before the conference started?
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Mar 31, 2017 13:42
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Yeah, feel good; this LP is great, but don't strain yourself or do anything that compromises or pains you.
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Mar 31, 2017 21:04
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MonsterEnvy posted:Erika our new eye piece never bothered to look at the corpses. So fake corpses or them not being dead could be the answer. You know, that's right, isn't it... "Detective authority" never really came up in the previousa games with Barttler, and we all juyst kind of assumed thet since he was the one challenging the witch, everything he himself saw was real. But in this new, loveless* gamne, he isn't the detective anymore, Erika is... meaning I guess we have to trust anything she sees as "what is true". And has she personally seen the bodies? She was in the same room with them, but was more captivated by the circle than checking their condition... so can we say that they're dead, really? So the first two blue truths seem like the way to go here. *And yeah, I get where Ronove is coming from in calling this game lacking both love and honor, because everything feels a lot more...skeevy, somehow, than the Beato games. More bloody, more harsh, more uncomfortable... and the designated detective has somehow managed to out-rear end in a top hat Holmes, Poirot, and Wolfe before the murders even started. Think about that.
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Apr 4, 2017 13:40
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Ooooh, you cliffhanging tease. Whilst we're waiting for... whatever it is is coming (What's Beato even going to do if she's just a spirit here?), let me crack open a drink and enjoy the best part of this Arc so far:ProfessorProf posted:
Aw, poo poo.  When Smart Battler pokes his head out, even Bern is impressed... this is really why it becomes so infuriating when he can't get it, even if he does have really good reasons for falling apart: because when he does have his head in the game, he can do stuff like that. Up the mystery buffs.
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Apr 4, 2017 14:29
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"Huh...?"
"Looks like you haven't read enough yourself."
"Did I say something wrong...?"
"...ah. Th, the number of people was the same in both, right?"
"They tie for the record, but 'Non-serial Murders' was first published in 1947. 'The Zodiac Murders' was 1981... If you know so much about it, shouldn't you have mentioned 'Non-serial Murders' first?"
"...Nn... gah."
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...Who? What kind of name is "Dlanor"? That's not the King's English, there... Oh god, not more characters... Natsuhi's deteriorating, but Beatrice is right that the proof against her is largely one of semantics; after all, there has been no way to tell that the door to Kinzo's study remained closed the whole time (Eva didn't get to pull off her paper trick, and there was none of that weird tape on the door; Rudolph had to come in by window). And there's another idea; could be Grandpa went out the window using a ladder, which a servant cleared away later. God, I don't know why I'm arguing something that I know very well isn't true, because I saw the corpse (and have been calling Kinzo himself a fuckface from Update 1) . But Erika is being such a loving tool here that I want to argue with her on every point just on general principle. I get that Natsuhi is the shadiest and most secretive person here, but to finger the outsider for a crime just for having the most secrets, or for just being an outsider, is a mistake all to often made by real life law enforcement- to the point that it's a feature, not a bug. And it's something a so called Great Detective- typically an "outsider" themselves- should be above. e: And just so you know, Prof, that link to Smile-less soiree" goes to the Youtube page, not the Polsy, so you know. Didn't read the comment's (I generally don't, on YT) but so you know. resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 14:23
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W...Wh... WHAT THE FU-  What is happening here!? In the same breath we start talking about Knox's rules in this story, Erika summons the Literal Personification Of THE loving KNOX RULES to help her fight Beatrice! And she's an anime girl! With Armor! And Minions! And another laser sword, Pew Pew! And is apparently the daughter of Monseigneur Knox herself! And weird speaking patterns because Anime, and of course she does hahahahahahahahahaHAAAAAAHAHAHAHAH HOW IS THIS poo poo ALLOWED?!?!? I mean, yes, we are obviously still drawing a line between reality and whatever weird wonderland poo poo is going on here*, but we do still have a battle between fantasy and mystery, and since when have the rules dictated that the Mystery side can call on the bunny ladies and the Anime Inquisition when battler could not, because that poo poo is silly? Pretty sure mystery doesn't get to call down magic or supernatural abilities- which is one of KNOX'S OWN RULES, haha- or did I miss the part in Hercule Poirot when he loving Kamehameha'd the bad guy instead of setting up a parlor room? Was Battler always allowed to click his fingers and summon a lot more competent people in the other games? No he was Not!! Because that was a battle between mystery and fantasy and not... whatever I see here. And don't think I didn't notice that cackle that Erika made, only you witches have ever made a sound like that. Which means she's a Sheplant... a PLANT!! And not a real detective at all, the wretch. More goddamn laser swords- you can take em and shove em into your SMUG FACE!!! *And OK, Fine, summoning an avatar of mystery is exactly the sort of craziness I happen to like, well done R07 
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Apr 6, 2017 18:05
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... OK, the one we've been following since the beginning, the guy who fought a witch by saying that magic isn't real, just fought another "magic spirit" in the rain in defense of the same witch he declared war on... A magic spirit summoned by another detective, against the witch... and all to... disprove magic?  Oh, you know what? gently caress it. Fantasy, mystery, anti-fantasy and anti-mystery: they can all go gently caress themselves. This story is so beyond the pale of either genre, and keeps messing around with the rules of both on the fly, that to look at this story in the strict terms of either is just a crazy-making effort in futility. First the goal was presented as disproving magic, and this is the main aim of both of these detectives, but then the goal became to supersede the genre of fantasy with the genre of mystery, and I can't help but think that everyone's lost the thread here, which is the truth. Which is figuring out what happened on this crazy shithole island, what was done, and why they did it.* So what is the truth here? Truth one: Battler's scenario, while far fetched, is still really flimsy (and pretty much hinges on not only where the bathroom is in relationship to the bed, but the supposition that a person like Natsuhi, described as very thorough and a confirmed worrywart, wouldn't at least throw a glance at the bed as she was leaving the room, which is dodgy), but I guess it could fall within a framework. And I suppose it's a testament to how horrible Erika has been that literally everyone takes the opportunity to dunk on her despite this theory's shoddiness (Eva, I would imagine, is meticulous enough that she would normally be on that theory like white on rice) Truth two:  OK, I do have to admit that this is kinda adorable. (Even if my feelings regarding BeatoXBato are decidedly complicated, given Beoto's actions up to this point and the implications of what she wanted out of this game in the first place...) Third truth: The blue wedge flashed through the courtyard along with a blue bolt of lightning, and roared down towards Dlanor's forehead as she stared up at the sky.  "...ah." "...Beato's game isn't easy. It's even doubtful whether the fallbacks of the mystery genre even work here. Your swordsmanship isn't bad, but you should be a bit more flexible in your thinking."...A massive blue wedge which looked like a pillar... was above Dlanor's forehead... and had stopped with its tip just slightly touching her. It didn't run her through. It made no mark larger than being poked with a pencil. When Battler snapped his fingers, the blue wedge shattered and became a shower of translucent gems, no, drops of rain that poured down over the courtyard. Battler, watch out: you play around too much, just like Beatrice did before you. It leaves an opening that is very easy to strike, especially to such a bloody-minded soul like Erika. *Which, I can't help but note, is a question that Erika has skipped so far in her reasoning: she's often bang on concerning details and creating scenarios, but doesn't seem interested in reconciling them with the greater picture.
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Apr 7, 2017 16:14
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I'm sure she didn't... because she (along with the audience) knows that Kinzo is dead as disco. I'm trying to frame it as the view from the parlor room to play along. (shame about that, as Dead Kinzo in ... Natsuhi's mind, I guess? Seems a lot more personable and likeable than Kinzo was presented as is some other scenes the first game. Without the overtones of abuse, Kinzo is just a crazy person who swoops around and laughs about desire and things to do on "mad nights." I can get behind that. )vvv But what is a witch, and how does one "kill" it? That's the question that becomes more and more knotty as this game goes on... resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Apr 7, 2017 |
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Apr 7, 2017 16:39
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Yeesh. Complicated feelings for this one... peas hit it on the head: Erika may be an awful monster, and what she did to Cornelia is unforgivable, but her desperation to be "accepted" by Berne (and Berne's complete and obviously deliberate denial of it) was good for a laugh at first. But just like all the other instances of abuse and harm, our face gets rubbed in it until we become sick: she tries SO hard to streetch her little brain cells, and Lambda takes such obvious glee in shutting her down, that it becomes uncomfortable. The way she talks about being a piece that must be used- just like all that furniture poo poo in the first game- makes me think that she is yet another victim of abuse and pain, meant to show us yet another example of somebody who's been hurt so much she literally has no idea of how to do anything else... a vibe that even Kinzo has given me. I mean, she can still go to hell, but she just comes off as a sad, pathetic lunatic in that last scene... just like Kinzo in his mellower moments. Pain begets pain. As for the central mystery... something does occur, but it relies on certain information that I don't really know is true and is contrary to previous games till now. But hey, I still got Battler as my avatar, so hell with it, here goes. These explanations for how the letter and knock could have happened have already been established pretty well by Erika for the most part, so trying the same tack and going even more complicated would not seem to work (and the whole bit is stretching Knox' Rules to the breaking point already. I mean, an auto knocker? What would the point of such a thing be?) So let me go the other way, and point out that the only one with "detective authority", and thus an unjaundiced eye that cannot be fooled and an honest hand that cannot be turned to murder, wasn't there. She was in the guesthouse the whole time according to the red... which means the entire bit in the main house is now questionable, "suffused with the darkness of the witch," to use the games own phraseology. So with that in mind, there is a simpler explanation for all this, and peas hit on it in his last two points, so let me take it a bit further: why are we assuming that the knock and the letter are real? Why is the assumption that the entire scenario happened the way they said it did; why didn't someone just come in with the ring, give it to Battler, and concoct a story about a magic letter conferring the right of headship for the benefit of the stupidest sibling and his equally dim and flustered wife? Heck, with this explanation, we've also eliminated the contradiction of Natsuhi's call: if the whole room was in on it, they could have made the call to Natsuhi right there in the conference room, two birds with one stone. It's difficult to imagine Battler being privy to such a plan, especially how she defended Natsuhi so well a couple updates ago, but... that was before we knew of a couple of things: a) the new rule of "Detective Authority;" and 2) the Cliff-Baby. For my hypothesis to be true, they have to be in this room (and I think they were, because most* other candidates are dead or couldn't have done it), and Battler... fits that profile. It still makes me , but the profile does fit... and it fits on Kanon and Shannon both as well.So to make this official, repetition requested: The letter and the knock announcing it are things that really happened. And in their absence, I submit the blue: The letter and knock were fakes concocted by a person or group of persons in the conference room at midnight, possibly to provide an alibi for Natsuhi's call. *It has been mentioned that Kumasawa is a drat good actress, so I cannot discount the possibility that it was her, as her actions are largely unaccounted for here.
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Apr 10, 2017 19:43
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8:30 AM is my favorite time of day now! I like to get to work early and get settled so I'll be ready  Natsuhi's life: still sucks. And now not only has another murder happened without an alibi for her, but she was forced into the same vicinity as the murder... at this point I'm just waiting for somebody to open the door and yell GOTCHA to make the misery complete. So the only one Natsuhi told about liking fall was Shannon, eh? (And in red, too... I guess either anyone can use red now, or some helpful narrator is now infusing the red in anything helpful to give the story direction) This is more fuel for the "Shannon is involved somehow" fire, and lends credence to my idea that the calls were made, if not by her, than on information that she gave. I know I toot a couple of horns, and I'm sorry if it gets boring, but... looking at this from the realm of mundane possibility, Beatrice cannot be one person. That's where Occam's Razor leads me in this matter: if the murders are non-magical, then they have to have been done by conspiracy, and this scenario is no exception: Natsuhi was forcibly conscripted into it as a fall guy. But this conspiracy has a core, and that core is... This update points to Shannon, but with this new information presented of Cliff Baby, I find myself gravitating once again to my Kanon theory. I mean, if nothing else, It would certainly explain his distaste for Natsuhi and Krauss- and hey, apparently Jessica used to get locked up in a closet when she was young by Natsuhi as a punishment (loving hell, Natsuhi, that's terrible ) which I doubt would make Kanon very happy either. In fact I half wonder if maybe Jessica is alive somewhere and that she and Kanon are in on this together to gently caress with Natsuhi, only it was confirmed in red that she was dead.
resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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Apr 11, 2017 14:50
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ProfessorProf posted:Who should I fight and how? Maybe it's a good thing I don't have the right to speak for a while. I'll calm down and coolly watch over everything... Well, that's an easy question to answer, isn't it- Your name in Battler, is it not? You fight. You fight 'em all.  And what an interesting set piece, too; fake or not, both the island and the garden were becoming stale, so heck with it- I'll take Shortcackle's Giant Court of Truth and Doubt. I'm with CottonWolf, though: Natsuhi couldn't have done it according to the rules set, but she was maneuvered into not having an alibi by the opponent of Erika... Which makes it difficult to discern what the point of this is besides needlessly making GBS threads on somebody for chuckles.
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Apr 13, 2017 14:44
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ZiegeDame posted:But, of course, Battler is incompetent For loving real. I go away for one weekend, come back to find everything's hosed? Seriously? But oath2order is probably right in that the Second Twilight and any arguments concerning it will be shot down, in yet another example of the "Heads I Win, Tails You Lose" bullshit that the witches love to sling around. This is particularly bullshit which rankles in this instance because if I recall, we can go even further back to disprove this, because by this game's very reasoning, there's another person without an alibi running around: Kinzo, a hale old man that apparently might still be alive, because it was proven that he could have jumped outside in a storm. This was proven as an effective blue truth, so it renders all or most of Erika's crazy bullshit due to the timeframe being set up, because it means there was a potential crazy old man running around between midnight and one... one who had enough time, for example, to slip anywhere possible within the guest house, before Erika's bullshit tape sealed the entrances. Could have come back before Erika did, in fact! Could have jumped in another window, because why not, and waited in the guest room for all the kiddos to stop playing trump, before knifing them. Maybe he joined in the trump- crazy old man remember: That's just our Kinzo! And HEEEY: it looks like the all the judges knew it too, because oh lookie who's absent from the roster- Kinzo, again. Didn't even mention him; he didn't even come up until he tried to defend Natsuhi... after which he was shunted off right quick by rear end in a top hat Bern, lest even Stupidhead over there remember any of this or think to bring it up. But I honestly don't know why she bothered with the subterfuge, considering the rear end in a top hat at the helm is our Battler, the literal stupidest man on earth. Why are you even here, Battler, why did you come back to this place so you could gently caress literally everything up? Why couldn't you have just languished in your stupid life elsewhere, and quietly died of cancer out of our sight that we might have been unburdened by your staggering incompetence!? ALL you had to do here was not have the memory of a loving goldfish for two loving seconds; ALL you had to do was notice the big-rear end hints Dlanor was dropping you, as well as the THING YOU YOURSELF loving DID yesterday! What is even the point of your unforGIVEably pathetic rear end!? You know what: gently caress you; I take back everything even vaguely supportive I've said of you because you deserve to be dunked on-by Beatrice, by Berne, by us in this thread! What a fool I am, to think there was anything good coming from you, to think this was a tragedy... It's NOT!! It's a COMEDY!! A comedy of the loving USELESS CUNTFACE Battler Ushiromiya and his toxic misadventures; Oh, BOY, I wonder how he's going to gently caress everything up for everybody today. It's FUNNY!!! YOU'RE funny, you stupid loving maggot, writhing on your pin. You DESERVE to be laughed at, even in your worthless death. Thanks for loving nothing, Battler, and rot in hell. :ptui:
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Apr 17, 2017 17:55
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Good morning! So... that sure was a post I made yesterday, huh? Yeah... I'm not generally that angry in posting, and I seen to have upset some folks, so let me offer some explanation for my outburst. Yesterday... was kinda bad. I'm all right, and I'm not going to flip out and hurt myself or others, but despair had grown in me yesterday. First of all, I was tired; like I said, I had travelled for Easter (both there and back, since I had to be in church for choir) and had been surrounded by people all day, and going straight to work on Monday left me feeling drained. (I also might not have used my apnea device the night before due to travelling, which probably did not help- I hate how groggy and off the world feels without a C-PAP infused sleep.) Other thing is, I had a lot on my mind, particularly regarding politics; to make a very long story short, the state of the world concerns me at the moment, and living in DC, right there with everything, even if my job doesn't really have to do with politics, guarantees I am reminded of it a little. It's not that I'm particularly concerned for my own job or position, those are both relatively safe... but all the same, I fond myself in a Good Friday mindset the day after Easter, and it just kinda... blew up. So... sorry if I worried anybody*; I've had a good (and C-PAP infused) sleep, and feel somewhat better about things today. Yes, I know that Battler is in over his head and genuinely trying his best in a bad situation, it's just... I could really have used a victory yesterday. And the stage was set for one, too; it felt like a climax, it felt like the moment within the story that things turn around. That feeling, that catharsis was denied, and I'm not going to say sorry for feeling angry and frustrated at a story beat clearly meant to be anger-inducing and frustrating. As others have pointed out since yesterday, Erika's entire case is really weak and myopic, and relies almost wholly on "detective's authority", treated here more as God Mode than a narrative convention. And all she has guaranteed with it was that all the entrances beside the one she was personally watching in the guest house were sealed at an unspecified time before 1 AM, and that she heard someone breathing in Battler's room around 3. This leaves a lot of holes here, even with all of the alibis. It coukld have been Krauss, who slipped in before the sealing, killed them, and subsequently died at the same time as Hideyoshi; it could have been Kinzo, still unaccounted for- hell, it could have been Rosa, just after she came back: could have gone to the room, slit all their throats, and then her own (or she got in a tussle that ended with both throats cut). Battler had obviously been doing some thinking about this, had been poring over the mystery, and obviously cared about the situation, and he failed to mention these. He was supposed to win... and he let me down. ProfessorProf posted:
Though I guess I should probably join the club on that score. And to the point where I should remember it's just a story, and should calm down: I can't really do that, sorry. I care about stories, always have; it's really, really hard to detach myself from a story I've come to like. Other people read books, but I...live them; it's the difference between drinking water from a stream and throwing yourself into said stream and immersing every part of you. So I get involved; I attach myself to the flow of the imaginary characters and feel what they feel (even literally, sometimes- an active imagination causes me to imagine certain wounds very well... still haven't brought myself to watch certain movies because I know how difficult some of those wounds can be for me). That's how one "reads a book", as I have come to understand it, and I generally don't regret it (unless the book turns out to be poo poo, of course). But I was kinda ill prepared for this, even after everything else that's happened; Beatrice was positively kind compared to Erika. *And apologies especially to EagerSleeper for my language. Was it the C-word that did it? You've never seemed to care about F-bombs, but I seem to recall from the last thread that "b*tch" and other such female pejoratives seem to hit you hard, so I'll try to watch that. e: Oh look, a new up...date...  And the anger comes back again... holy goddamn, Berne is a monster. Am I really not allowed to get angry at this? How the hell are you all not spitting venom at this pointless degradation? resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Apr 18, 2017 14:12
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"...I promised that I'd kill you. So I won't let anyone else do it. I'll definitely keep that promise...!!"
"Liar. I'll never trust your promises again."
"Huh? When did I ever make a promise to you and lie about it...?"
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Carpator Diei posted:Given the length of your post, you probably wrote this before reading the latest update, didn't you? I can only imagine how THAT had to feel... I usually have a rather detached, analytical attitude when reading literature, and I still found that scene rather painful. Well, it didn't feel good, I can say that much. To elaborate my feelings on Bernestakel and Erika at this moment in time would probably be a bit too similar to yesterday's post, and I am trying to cut back on those. Although... it's good that Prof pointed out his edit; what an interesting face that Erika makes when she says that she cannot trust the red truth, even in matters of love... and interesting is what she says next, the bit about how men never take the words of women seriously. I sense pain here, and heartbreak... I wonder if that is my Erika upholds her master so much: if Witches are beings apart from pain, and presumably don't have any emotions, then there's no way they can hurt, or so Erika believes. Does that mean that she, a detective, truly wants to become a Witch, that she might be above humans and thus truly be as heartless as she pretends to be? Is that what Beatrice wanted too, more than magic or power? Beatrice. Another point surfaces when comparing this loveless game to her own boards: A Witch is evidently a horror that towers above mortals and torments them for pleasure, but feels no torment of their own. And Beatrice, in the end, despite all of her efforts and desires, was no Witch.
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Apr 18, 2017 15:10
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Qrr posted:Oh, also since witches aren't real and are just metaphorical: what the heck is going on there? This must represent someone attacking Natsuhi. So who is doing it and what's their motivation? Mary Sue isn't doing it on behalf of Bernkastel because Bern is imaginary. So what is actually going on? I guess Mary Sue could have a reason to dislike Natsuhi, though I'm not sure how - maybe it relates to that backstory where she comes from a noble family. Well, to answer that question, I think we have to address the circumstances of this 5th game- and the fact that, in Beatrice's absence, Lambdadelta took the reins. It is easy to say that since this is a "game without love", as Ronove puts it, that Shortcackle is just ducking around with things willy nilly for fun, but recall that it was mentioned that LD actually does have a good understanding of how Beatrice and her "game" work. It's been mentioned several times that the pieces on the game board are bound to only do what is possible for them, and what those character are able to do. So the mechanics of the game are the same as the previous game boards, despite the Mary Sue. Thus what this all says to me, is that this Beatrice (the real one, not the spirit) is doing things that she could have done before, but wouldn't do. Within that question is the answer to your question: what is Beatrice doing here that wasn't done before? The utter shellacking of Natsuhi would seem to be the most obvious answer, but the first game had Natsuhi being singled out and messed with as well, just not to the degree of calling her a murderer and incestuous whore. So what does that leave? The calls from Cliff Baby? Possibly, since we never heard a word about cliff baby before...
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Apr 18, 2017 22:01
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Ye gods... Really? Battler is Cliff Baby? And Natsuhi pushed him off lo these many years ago, and now comes to take his revenge? That makes no sense. There was not a whisper of any secret motivation in any of the previous games on his part; this whole take revenge on Natsuhi thing is only really pursued in this game. So he can't be Cliff Baby... but he had the voice of Cliff Baby? And why wouldn't Cliff Baby say anything now? But how wer the calls made then? But he stopped Erika from discovering Natsuhi later, so he has to be, but he cant be and oh god  Deep breath. Step back. Is it possible for Battler to be Cliff Baby? Yes, I suppose it is; the time frame for his birth is off, but so what- the ages of all of these guys has been funny from the beginning, and nothing has been confirmed in red. And he does have the undisclosed thing about his birth that Rudolph keeps hinting at; we think that Kyrie actually had Battler but that's mostly supposition on our part, all that has been confirmed in red is that Battler is not Asumu's child. So could he have been secretly given to Rudolph by Kinzo after his fall? Maybe. And it was awfully convenient of him to stay behind and stop Erika from searching that wardrobe that time, isn't it- almost as if he knew. But even with all that... how did Battler find out, and why didn't he mention this as a pretext once during the previous four games? There was not an inkling of a hint that Battler at all had it out for his aunt on the previous outing, and he had tons of opportunities to increase her suffering- or make those calls- before game 5. I know detective authority has been introduced only fairly recently, but Battler was more or less our viewpoint character for the first game, and the one we designated as a detective, even if the game technically didn't. So for a bombshell like this to be true about him feels... cheap, and a direct contradiction to Knox's 8th (and leaning more than a little on the 7th as well.) The same problem covers Jessica, who fits the timeframe much better than George does: her feelings about her mother are complicated, true, but there has been nothing to suggest that she would take part, or helm, any effort to frame or humiliate her in this fashion (besides, she's kind of dead at the moment.) This leads me to the conclusion that whoever Cliff Baby is, Battler isn't it. But his outburst at the end here indicates that he was, at least involved... and very possibly could have made the calls on Cliff Baby's behalf. Which means- sorry, CottonWolf - that I must once again drag out the "conspiracy" drum, because once again, it's the only way I can see how everything works.Because, if Battler is an accomplice- and I believe that he is- then according to Knox's 9th, his viewpoint cannot be trusted. This allowed him to see Kinzo out during the storm, a man said in red to be dead at the start of every game*, allowed him to see the six corpses of the first twilight as dead without examining the, and allowed the whole "mysterious letter with the ring" thing to happen as the game told it... but not how it probably actually happened. Nothing that has happened from his viewpoint can be trusted now... which opens up a lot of options. For example, Battler could have made the calls himself, and the second one he made could have been taken straight from the dining room, with most of the family present, as I hypothesized before. Which in turn... leads me to suspect Kanon as the real Cliff Baby. He has the animosity toward Natsuhi, and he could have been wherever he needed to be... maybe after Battler found the gold, he came to him with the story of being thrown off, and got him on their side that way. *SPEAKING of which, o game, don't think I didn't notice that even the credits don't attempt to deny this. Leaving a Kinzo simultaneously dead and a randy old bastard who hides corpses and has it with daughter-in-laws. This is your fault, Battler. e: ZiegeDame posted:You know, if cliff baby were 1967-Beatrice's son, Kinzo would be both the father and the grandfather... Why, ZiegeDame. Why are you making a weird, gross situation even more weird and gross. Why. Why would you do that. resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 18:19
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Cyouni posted:Battler cannot be the caller. Let's dispense with this now. Unless everyone in the dining room was in on it, Battler has an alibi for the time the calls were made. And why, pray tell, couldn't the rest of the dining room have been in on it? Remember, Erika's ridiculous God Mode only covers where she is at the time, and she was only present for the finding of the gold, but not for anything after. And the last thing she witnessed is an argument between Natsuhi and everyone else about the successorship; everyone's feelings about Natsuhi took a dip there, and this is in addition to all of the doubts surrounding Krauss' embezzlement and the conspiracy the other siblings had going on. So is it so hard to believe that there was a plan to at least make Natsuhi sweat, even if the murders were not especially planned? Eva and Kyrie both had investigators going over the past of their eldest sibling and pretty much everyone else in the family is smarter than Krauss and Kyrie... Hypothesis: Cliff Baby came to relatives after Battler found the gold with an idea on how to get Krauss/Natsuhi to confess embezzlement, and told the story about the baby. Then, once Natsuhi leaves, everyone hatches a plan to have Battler pretend to be Cliff Baby and call her... maybe they went as far as to plan to fake the murders in the first twilight as well. Remember, Erika didn't examine those bodies when they first showed up. Maybe they really did get up and walk away, and were subsequently killed. Could even have been that Hideyoshi's murder was meant to be faked too, only that one turned out real.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:54
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Cyouni posted:I did consider this for a bit, but then I also realized there was another call. Somewhere around the time Natsuhi woke up and had Genji's death reported to her, the mystery caller called Natsuhi and had her hear Krauss's voice. Unless there was some weird time where Battler managed to vanish during the cousins' body investigation, that's not possible for him. It's also not possible before that, because Intellectual Rapist Wall Spider. I believe it has to include those two, as I suspect Kanon in particular of being Cliff Baby... and that Nanjo did as I suspect he'd done before and lied through his teeth. Detective authority guarantees the truth, but it doesn't guarantee that anyone other than the detective hold that truth or tell it to the detective (Knox's 9th, I think). Which is why most detectives have trusted morticians with which to discuss bodies, or just do the drat autopsies themselves. But the point that Battler couldn't have made the other call does stand, so I ameliorate my theory to say that Battler made one of the calls, and that someone else made the other. Presumably whoever had absconded with Krauss was the one who made the second call (and probably killed hem right after that call). Who's actions weren't being followed at that point? That might be a candidate.
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Apr 19, 2017 20:22
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tiistai posted:Hang on, let me get this theory straight. So, in this conspiracy scenario Eva now honestly believes Natsuhi murdered Hideyoshi despite being the one who framed her in the first place? Why doesn't she suspect people like Kanon who knew about the plan? Why did they, Eva in particular, leave Natsuhi in the closet if they knew she was there and had killed a person? Well, I don't honestly think Hideyoshi's death was planned, if the First Twilight was conspiracy... In those, Eva was acting distraught, but seemed to me to only get a lot more personal once Hideyoshi was actually killed. To be more precise: the First Twilight was planned as a conspiracy to freak Krauss and Natsuhi out, and the six mentioned there-Genji, George, Jessica, Maria, Rosa, Krauss- are not thought by the conspirators as actually dead. We know from the Red that they are dead, but to the family conference guys, they're not- it's all a prank, and they're hiding somewhere in order to get Natsuhi to confess what happened to Kinzo/ all the money embezzled by Krauss. Hideyoshi is the only real body quantifies to them... and notice, if you will, how Eva doesn't mention George at all, whilst beating up Natsuhi, just her husband.
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Apr 20, 2017 13:24
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"I am the cruelest witch"... every time, I think that we have reached the end of Berne's cruelty, and every time she gleefully proves me wrong. It is difficult coming into this with Higurashi fresh in my mind, to see somebody wearing the face of my favorite character to be so monstrous... So I suppose it is worth remembering that Berne isn't that character, but what they left behind- the experiences that they left behind in order to remain the precocious prankster I remember. And what remained... was pain unending. Pain with no release, no prerogative... except to replicate itself in others.
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Apr 20, 2017 16:54
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ProfessorProf posted:In other words, Beato wants me to be capable of solving it. Isn't that... proof that reasoning is possible...? Of course, that's from Beato's point of view, and it doesn't necessarily mean that reasoning is possible for me... Compared to before now, when I didn't even know whether reasoning was possible or impossible, that one line might give me a great deal of courage... At least it has the power to silence any negative thoughts about it just being useless anyway... Huh. "Without love, it cannot be seen"... I wasn't thinking of this interpretation when I first heard that phrase, I thought it meant some soppy, power of love nonsense meant to distract us from the mystery, and give credence to the bloody actions of a crazy person. But the way Dlanor and Battler talk about it here, it's more akin to faith than love- faith that the question being posed is meant to be solved, and can be solved. It's an interesting idea, given that love is a matter of faith as well- what proof do we have that the people who love us actually do, other than their word, or the things they do for us, or what have you? If we require further proof than this, than faith is broken, in our own heads as well as in the heads of our loved ones, because doubt is a poison there; unrequited love is a tragedy we'd all like to avoid, but for the sort of person that has to constantly question that love is real, all love is unrequited- hell, from a cynical viewpoint, that's even true in the best of times, since to confess and accept love is a leap of faith, a declaration of optimism to a world that often likes to crush such things because it can. So to get around that, we have the idea of a mutual vow of silence, a secret agreement to never really ask... which the Knox Decalogue offers for the mystery genre: as other people have noted, it's less a set in stone law (the way Erika is treating it, as well as a cudgel to crush the weak) and more a set of guideline, the main point of which is "hey, don't play fast and loose with your rules or trick the reader too much, because that makes readers feel cheated and drives them away." Because if we are given a mystery we are told is solvable, and it turns into some terrible "Gotcha" later on... it feels obscene. In the classic mystery, this question is seen as a given, so we don't really think about it; of course the truth will out, and of course justice will be done, or else why are we here? It's a narrative convention that the detective will answer the riddle, uphold the innocent victims, and catch the bad guy, as well as the fact that there will be "detective", "riddle", and "Bad guy"- that's why mysteries are mysteries. If the mystery isn't solved and there is no central bad guy, that's noir. If the innocent victim isn't defended, that's tragedy. If the bad guy isn't caught and lives to kill again, that's horror. All of which are fine if you are expecting them, but if something turns into another thing that you didn't ask for while reading it... it's hard not to feel betrayed.
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Apr 21, 2017 15:09
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"Love?"
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What? ... What!? Not only is he alive again, but he's a goddamn- WHAT?!? Well, at least this loving Witch bullshit won't effect him anymore, since he now apparently has all the cheat codes to La-La Land, but... he did start out this journey on a quest to disprove magic, right? I didn't just imagine that or wake up in some alternate dimension, yes? He must stop magic, and now he is magic, and I might still be asleep now, and I;ve got a dress rehearsal to go to, so maybe after that and a walk, I will come back and be in the realm of the sensible. So adieu.
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Apr 22, 2017 14:04
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Aumanor posted:Welp, guess you've got a new avatar, resurgam40. Whatever do you... Oh. Never going to live that one down, am I?
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Apr 24, 2017 19:40
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... And once again, the notion rises in me that I am meant to enjoy the things I'm reading; to find the degradations and tortures of Battler Ushiromiya to be the highest of high comedy somehow. Battler fucks up again, uproarious laughter, applause, cue wacky theme. It was offense at this idea that partially drew out my infamous rant that earned me my pretty red text. But there is no anger anymore. It's not infuriating, it's just draining... and sick. And oh joy: Even more silly haired anime girls. Wonderful. I'm so happy. 
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Apr 28, 2017 17:18
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ProfessorProf posted:
... My god. It's her- not the Beatrice we all know and... well, some love, and others have complicated feelings about, but the other one. The one in Kuwadorian, in 1967... the one that Rosa met, and that fell off the cliff. Listening to the video clinched it for me; reading it was weird enough, but... the only time Beatrice has ever spoken so soft, sweet and polite was in those scenes in last thread, wondering who she is and marveling at zoos. She sounded so happy to be talking to somebody other than some mad old man who locks her up in a garden. So she was one of... well, the first Beatrice's pieces too, but why is that? Why keep one separate from herself... unless she was never "Beatrice" at all? And drat, Battler... I don't know where you're going with this, but I don't like it. The story has been drawing parallels between you and Kinzo pretty much from the word "go," but I would have hoped there would have been some significant space in the development between "gets a cape" and "locks up a pretty girl in a room for nefarious purposes"... and you really could have gone another way, you know. (Like, not locking up blonde girls and putting them in frilly dresses, for instance. You give a man a cape, and it's all downhill from there, evidently.)
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May 1, 2017 17:14
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"I too cannot allow you such an easy victory. I, uh, look forward to having a good, clean fight."
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tiistai posted:Regardless of whether you guys are right or wrong, I expected Umineko would have taught you a thing or two about jumping to conclusions by now And yet we are seldom punished for imagining the worst outcome possible. Besides... the things you say don't often turn out true.
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May 2, 2017 13:14
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