Is DPRK good or bad?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > Is DPRK good or bad?

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcNEEps2lRw

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 03:06

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 07:19

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

What the DPRK actually wants is U.S. troops out of South Korea, left-wing nationalists in power in South Korea, and a peace treaty leading to a ROK-DPRK confederation. And there's a sizable constituency in South Korea that would probably go for it.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 08:32

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

We really are just wasting a lot of time and resources to make sure there's never any kind of reconciliation between the North and South. The ROK army is more than capable of defending their country without the constant deployment of American troops.

Yeah.

Also B.R. Myers pointed out in an interview this movie is popular in South Korea now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSBGOM94PD4

Pretty interesting wunza movie if only for the setup. Wunza sexy North Korean investigator, and wunza bumbling South Korean detective. But together they go on crazy, hilarious adventures to take down a cross-border crime ring!

BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 09:04 on Mar 24, 2017

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 09:02

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkDwIkFNwnk

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 09:09

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

rudatron posted:

North Korea is not lead by left-wing nationalists, it's a fascist state, it has the ethnic/racial bullshit built into it

I didn't say that. I said North Korea wants left-wing nationalists in power in South Korea.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 09:24

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

Also I cribbed that from Myers here who also wrote that book on North Korea being a fascist state:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...the_regime.html

quote:

The goal of [North Korean] nuclear armament is not mere security from U.S. attack, which conventional weaponry trained on Seoul has preserved since 1953�and through far greater crises than George W. Bush�s little �axis of evil� remark in 2002. As every North Korean knows, the whole point of the military-first policy is �final victory,� or the unification of the peninsula under North Korean rule. Many foreign observers refuse to believe this, on the grounds that Kim Jong-un could not possibly want a nuclear war. They�re missing the whole point.

North Korea needs the capability to strike the U.S. with nuclear weapons in order to pressure both adversaries into signing peace treaties. This is the only grand bargain it has ever wanted. It has already made clear that a treaty with the South would require ending its ban on pro-North political agitation. The treaty with Washington would require the withdrawal of U.S. troops from the peninsula. The next step, as Pyongyang has often explained, would be some form of the North�South confederation it has advocated since 1960. One would have to be very na�ve not to know what would happen next. As Kim Il-Sung told his Bulgarian counterpart Todor Zhivkov in 1973, �If they listen to us, and a confederation is established, South Korea will be done with.�

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 09:26

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 07:14 on Mar 25, 2017

# ¿ Mar 25, 2017 07:11

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

This is pretty great:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkgLUw7CvK8

# ¿ Mar 26, 2017 07:05

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

I get weird feelings watching that. Pyongyang is both really pretty but I get this feeling of existential horror. Looks to be in better condition than Havana though.

At least on a superficial level, the baseline standard of living seems to have gotten better, at least in the capital. Not many cars on the road, but there are more of them and newer ones. The buildings have a fresh coat of paint. Fashion seems to have changed and is more relaxed, particularly for women. In the early mid-2000s when videos were coming out of there, it looked seriously blasted as it was still trying to recover from a horrendous famine and economic depression. More tourists now.

Yeah I dunno. The way totalitarian regimes work is that the horror is there, and the police state is listening and will deal with you, but for most people life is rather boring and is in kind of a ... stasis. Weighty. Nobody seems to be in much of a hurry. Life is frozen and inert.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2017 07:27

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

Also lime green.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2017 08:52

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

The DPRK had a higher standard of living until the late 1970s when that book was published yeah. That's not wrong. But reading about the founding of the country... despite what the book argues, in fact the DPRK engaged the services of Japanese collaborators more than the ROK.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2017 06:13

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

Also the book argues that Kim Il Sung was not only an important military leader (which he was) but an influential ideological leader and that his group "put great emphasis on the ideological and political preparation of its cadres" and that Kim's "political organization and agitation ... stretched deep into the peninsula." The source for this appears to be Kim Il Sung.

There are several problems with this, but often pro-DPRK sources and the DPRK organs themselves will talk about the things Kim Il Sung did, but do not explain what those things were in any detail. If he was such an influential ideological leader, then show us his ideological works. But Kim Il Sung's "works" were pretty scant, tautological bores that heavily plagiarized from other sources -- some of it was for foreign consumption only -- and there's a reason he's had minimal ideological influence abroad.

The DPRK does this in order to legitimize the state and build up a personality cult, but the text is not what the North Korean state is about. The text is a waxwork.

BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 06:47 on Apr 1, 2017

# ¿ Apr 1, 2017 06:40

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

Ahh I'm on the section about North Korean politics -- and the authors put central to it a 1972 interview Kim Il Sung gave to Japanese journalists about Juche Thought. OK right there you know these authors got snookered because

I skipped to the section

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aepwppHT6Fc&t=830s

Ace of Baes posted:

North Korea isn't socialist you retard.

R. Guyovich posted:

it is

Enver Hoxha said about Kim Il Sung:

"In Pyongyang, I believe that even Tito will be astonished at the proportions of the cult of his host, which has reached a level unheard of anywhere else, either in past or present times, let alone in a country which calls itself socialist."

BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 08:32 on Apr 1, 2017

# ¿ Apr 1, 2017 08:27

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

R. Guyovich posted:

do you think i bought myself this av

poe's law i guess

# ¿ Apr 1, 2017 16:08

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

quote:

The Idea of a Multinational, Multiracial Society Means Destruction of the Korean Nation

Recently, in South Korea, a strange game pursuing the weakening of the fundamental character of our race and making society �multiethnic and multiracial� is unfolding.

Those responsible for this commotion are spreading confounding rumors like South Korea is a �multiracial area� mixed with the blood of Americans and several other races, how we must �overcome closed ethnic nationalism,� and we must embrace �the inclusiveness and openness of a multiethnic nation� like the United States.

The words themselves take a knife to the feeling of our people, but even more serious is that this anti-national theory of �multiethnic, multiracial society� has already gone beyond the stage of discussion. Already, they�ve decided that from 2009, content related to �multiracial, multiethnic culture� would be included in elementary, middle and high school textbooks that have until now stressed that Koreans are the �descendents of Dangun,� �of one blood line� and �one race,� and to change the terms �families of international marriage� and �families of foreign laborers� to �multicultural families.� This is an outrage that makes it impossible to repress the rage of the people/race.

To start from the conclusion, the argument for �multiethnic, multiracial society� cried for by pro-American flunkeyists in South Korea is an unpardonable argument to obliterate the race by denying the homogeneity of the Korean race and to make an immigrant society out of South Korea, to make it a hodgepodge, to Americanize it.

The race (ethnic group) is a social unit of ethnic components formed historically and a community sharing the same fate, and said race exists because it has a character that distinguishes it from other races. Ethnic identity becomes an important weapon in personal and social development. Because of this, all races value their uniqueness and highlight their excellence, and by doing so give strength to awakening and unifying the components of the race. Today, with the wave of �globalization� inundating the world, nations have confronted it and insisted on their ethnic character and built walls to protect it; there is not one nation or race that has denied itself.

In a reality where domination and colonialism threatens the fates of weaker races, to deny the the uniqueness and excellence of our homogenous race is an act of treason preaching the spiritual disarmament of the race.

The pro-American traitors singing the arguments of �multiethnic, multiracial society� have not even a basic understanding of the race�s point of view or the historical development of society and are silly asses without even the slightest ethnic spirit.

Homogeneity, which no other race in the world has, is the pride of our race and becomes the source of the unity needed in the struggle for eternal development and prosperity. Because the homogeneity of the race is so precious, our people have sacrificed blood and lives to walk the long and difficult path of reunification, and now we are cultivating the June 15 era of reunification with all our patriotic fervor. If we cannot save the homogeneity of the race, we cannot protect the fate of either the race of the individual before American schemes for domination, nor can we block the schemes of the Japanese reactionaries to reinvade based on claims of sovereignty over the Dokdo islets. The anti-national character of the arguments for �multiethnic, multiracial society� is that it denies the race itself and entrusts the nation and race to the imperialists.

When people are calling for the entire people to unite their strength and reunify the Fatherland and raise up the majesty of the homogenous race, it�s a serious problem that there arguments to deny the race and obliterate the race have appeared in South Korea. Now is the era of independent unification to end 60 years of division between North and South and to establish the structural homogeneity of the race, and the trend of this age is �to handle things within the race� (uri minjok-ggiri). The argument for a �multiethnic, multiracial society� is a poison that weakens the basic ideology of this era and is anti-reunification logic. Anti-national arguments running counter to the direction of the people in South Korea is clearly the result of criminal schemes by pro-American groups, including the Grand National Party, and behind-the-scenes control by the United States to make the bloodlines of North and South different, block the June 15 era of reunification and make permanent the division of the Korean race.

The issue of mixed-race people being raised in South Korea is completely a product of U.S. military occupation of South Korea. How spiritless these fellows must be that not only do they not raise up the value of having the U.S. military withdraw to bring an end to this tragic reality, but instead are trying to make the problem part of society.

That arguments for a �multiethnic, multiracial society,� which make it impossible to repress ones racial shame and rage, are openly going around South Korea and there are moves to make them a reality shows how dangerous the criminal schemes of the United States to make the world unipolar are.

All sectors of the South Korean people must boldly reject the anti-national schemes of the flunkeyist traitors to toss aside our identity and racial character and even sully the bloodlines of our race and obliterate it. They must also raise up the values of putting the Korean race first and settling everything within our race and actively stand up in the patriotic struggle to protect the Korean race and bring about reunification.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2017 16:13

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

actually in fairness to the tankies, you can find more stuff on the DPRK's blood-and-soil on various stalinist/tankie websites since they've got enough time on their hands to dig for it. and they're like "wait... whaaaat?"

# ¿ Apr 1, 2017 16:17

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

also the DPRK is awesome in like a "drat this is some hosed up poo poo!" kinda way. it's fascinating to read about. i better be careful or i'll get stockholm syndrome. it's kim jong un-believeable

# ¿ Apr 1, 2017 16:51

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

Paul Songun > Paul Tsongas

# ¿ Apr 1, 2017 17:59

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

gobbagool posted:

Here's a question what's better North Korea, or Venezuela?

That's a toughie.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2017 18:49

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

Go go North Korea but set to the Power Rangers theme song

# ¿ Apr 2, 2017 08:29

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

B.R. did an interview with Slate recently that was pretty good

quote:

I don�t think [Trump has] made Kim Jong-un think any differently. The stars are aligning very nicely for the strategy he inherited from his father. Just as North Korea is perfecting its nuclear weaponry, China has acquired the economic power to punish South Korea for improving its missile defenses. Opinion polls in the South now strongly favor the left-wing presidential candidate Mun Jae-in, who in 2011 expressed hope for the speedy realization of a North�South confederation. If he or anyone else from the nationalist left takes over, years of South Korean accommodation of the North will ensue, complete with massive unconditional aid.

This went on under George W. Bush, and the alliance survived. Donald Trump, however, is much less likely to allow an ostensible ally to subvert UN sanctions while paying tributary visits to Pyongyang. And Kim Jong-un knows this. He knows that whatever security guarantees Trump gave to Seoul were made to the current conservative administration only. So Kim Jong-un has a better chance than his father did of pressuring the alliance to a breaking point. With China�s support he can pull a left-wing South Korean administration in one way while pushing the Americans in another.

Having lived in South Korea for the past 15 years, I don�t share most Americans� confidence that it will always choose America over a North-supporting China. My own impression�bolstered by the ongoing controversy surrounding the stationing of the THAAD missile defense system�is that a growing number of South Koreans would rather see their state�s security compromised than risk their own prosperity.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...the_regime.html

# ¿ Apr 2, 2017 21:09

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 07:19

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

I dunno honestly but it'd be hilarious if he were right

His views seem to be that bullying NK isn't going to work, but also that NK is hellbent on retaking the south and is way more serious about it than the left consensus is willing to accept

# ¿ Apr 2, 2017 23:28

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > Is DPRK good or bad?