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my goodness, I missed it. Can I get on the (admittedly already-quite-hefty) replacement list?
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Mar 21, 2017 13:22
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| # ¿ Apr 24, 2024 21:48 |
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I spent the last couple hours reading day 1's posts. There were three things I saw. 1) Rarity posted:This is the first time I can tell he's actually paying attention to the thread. Normally I don't even see that. I don't see how, if this is the first time Chores has done something, it's a meta tell in any way. Rarity was also pretty evasive after getting pushed on this, which felt bad to me. Rarity, can you explain what the rationale here is? Even as someone who's played with Chores before I didn't see his D1 posting as an alignment tell. 2) YPM's comment on MMT's vote => two-or-three-sentence vote with post => huge commit => big public mea culpa feels okay to me, on a filter - I really don't see scum being that visible on day 1. 3) With regards to the end of D1, just some thoughts: TNL's last post was almost 4 hours before deadline - in fact, before Dick and stickup were the only real choices - so they probably weren't around either. Willing to give them a pass. Rarity also wasn't around for hours before, pass. Kash had gone to bed per his last post. Pass. I'm not even sure if Chic posted the entire day. MMT was around - as people have noted already today - and didn't switch. Talking about swinging the vote onto Keane with 8 minutes until deadline - even if it was floating - makes little sense to me. There was zero momentum on Keane at that point. MMT, why bring up new targets with that little time before deadline? Chores was here until at least after 10, and his last two posts are, in order, "i stand with mmt", and a quoted post of MMT's saying "I don't like this". Chores, why not switch at that point to try and lock in an end of day execute target, if you weren't going to be there - and did your feelings on MMT's posting affect your confidence in the vote that you let stand?
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Mar 29, 2017 18:42
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got some chores tonight posted:how come no one is coming in today talking about lynching one of the two front runners from last night I don't think they are super scummy based off of day 1. Rarity posted:I've already explained what I was seeing. If other people aren't seeing it then that's their read on him but there's not much else I can say about it besides chores seems more engaged than I remember him being in other games. I get that part of it. What I'm having trouble with is the leap to "and thus chores is town".
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Mar 30, 2017 11:11
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Rarity posted:Catching up Murmur Twin posted:Posts like this - I feel like she's reading through the thread and pointing out suspicious stuff, but she's not doing it trying to figure out who the scum might be. I don't find this argument compelling but maybe that's because I've done this exact same thing as town Flying Leatherman posted:Chores, why not switch at that point to try and lock in an end of day execute target, if you weren't going to be there - and did your feelings on MMT's posting affect your confidence in the vote that you let stand? chores answer my question Rarity posted:Ok yeah, that's fair. I guess to me I feel like scum chores wouldn't bother making that kind of effort. If he's survived in games through ignoring the game before then there's no need to change that behaviour. I disagree with both your reasoning and the basis for it. W/r/t engagement, I don't think bookchat, recipechat, and a lurker callout equal an engaged player. Can you point to what makes you think he's more engaged this game than others that he's played in? (Actually, the lurker callout is especially funny if you read Chores's post history from before that point, and I definitely recommend filtering there for some laughs. If you took out all the meaningless white noise in his filter, he may have had four game related posts at that point). As far as it being indicative of alignment, I am still having a hard time making the mental leap of "someone is playing differently than they ever have before, thus town". If there's no impetus for scum chores to change his playstyle, as you suggest, why would there be an impetus for town chores to change his playstyle? Basically what I'm trying to get at here is that I think chores is playing a pretty standard chores game and even if he wasn't I don't think a change in posting style is indicative of an alignment especially if we haven't seen it before. Also the phrasing of "I guess to me I feel like" makes it sound to me like you just thought through why you believe what you believe at the time of your last post and justification after the fact is scummy in my mind. -- And now, on a completely unrelated note: What is your alignment read on DB, Kash?
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Mar 30, 2017 12:25
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got some chores tonight posted:i was having sex What about the second part of that question - the one regarding your confidence in MMT's last post that you called out, and your justification for your previous vote?
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Mar 30, 2017 13:25
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hi checking in, I'm on board with a Rarity vote today. I think the notes today on her posting are ok and I've made some notes earlier today about what I see as some inconsistency in her posting.Rarity posted:Eh, I can't be assed to defend myself. The only reason I didn't replace out of this game was cause I did that in Ecco's last game and didn't want to be a dick twice :/ this doesn't hurt either also, also also, i definitely think we should wrap this up before deadline because it would be pretty bad to surrender town agency two days in a row.
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Mar 30, 2017 23:22
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for the record I think there are other reasons to think Rarity is scummy than the Keane post
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Mar 31, 2017 01:19
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Max posted:Jeeze I wonder where he got the idea that MMT might be lunched. Uh...why am I being quoted here? This post was asking chores about consistency issues I saw D1, not a scumcall on MMT or anything.
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Apr 1, 2017 17:35
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Dick Bastardly posted:FL, what's your opinion on MMT thus far? Pretty okay with her at this point. She is ... maybe? a little bit less active than I'm used to but I'm super hesitant to read anything into that. I disagreed with some of her rationale for Rarity day 2, but it all got borne out in the end so not much to say there. Looking back, I thought I said something about the D1 stuff, but I guess not. Someone else said it for me anyway - I can see a situation where you're willing to switch, hear that the deadline is floating, and expect more than 3 minutes to make your decision. I do think it's a little rough looking, but at the same time I find it a lot more compelling that she came out in favor of executing Rarity so strongly day 2, though. On another somewhat related note, this talk about random scumdoc-interaction speculation is total garbage and the only way Opop's right is if he's a third scum and saw this interaction firsthand. You want the real final answer here as to why this is not in fact true? Rarity was actively engaging and talking to me after MMT had made her points against Rarity. That, to me, tells me that even if something went down, it certainly wasn't set in stone at that point. So yeah, I like MMT for town right now. As far as the stickup points, it's compelling at first glance, but I'll be the first to admit that I haven't reread the whole history on D2 yet. I'll have more free time tomorrow, and plan to go through the votes on Rarity to see if I see anything weird.
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Apr 2, 2017 02:28
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I went through the votes on Rarity and there wasn't anything glaringly awkward. Was hoping to find a smoking gun there. I did see something but I'll save that for a post coming shortly. The stickup case doesn't appeal to me. I just filtered him and while the promises of forthcoming content for the last couple days are a bit frustrating I also see that he's been posting reads and at the very least it seems like they're at least reasoned to some extent and grounded in reality. I do have a scum read but I'm busy writing out the whole case, should have something for you guys soon (like, within the hour).
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Apr 3, 2017 12:45
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I understand Max is sick and it makes me feel kinda bad about making this a thing, but there's enough here that I think that it might be worth exploring. Stuff like this (and the immediately preceding post in filter), this, and so on - I mean, I don't even think Max would argue that he's disconnected, and disconnected is a scum tell in my experience. If that were all, I'd chalk it up to stomach bug and wouldn't make this post at all - but there are some real nuggets in his posting that make me think I might be on to something here. Max posted:Jeeze I wonder where he got the idea that MMT might be lunched. Misrepresents my post at the very least. The other three are arguably accurate, but it leaves out that there was both pushback (in fact, some of that pushback came almost immediately after the Rarity and Opop posts linked above - and other cases at the same time - only a couple posts below the post that Max linked from Rarity, the Rarity train gets going with votes from TNL, Pmom, stick and YPM. Further, actually, there was this: Max posted:Handful of posts but hours later. This much is true. The Rarity case didn't actually come in until a few hours after that votecount was posted. But the posts Max linked above? At least two of them came well after that point and right around the same time that the pushback and case I noted above showed up. I'll digress a little here and note that this whole discussion is revolving around dogmother believing that MMT was the vote for yesterday. This stuff actually makes DM look pretty bad too, because if he's town either he believed that MMT at 2 votes was indicative of where the push was going to be, or he checked out all the way from that votecount until EOD. In fact, there was almost as much talk about Rarity prior to that votecount, even if there weren't as many votes! Most of the posts that Max linked in his quoted post above ("Jeeze I wonder...") come from after that votecount. Moreover, dogmother wasn't around - or at least wasn't actively posting - during that time. The timeline doesn't check out, on scrutiny. (The other thing that stood out to me was this: dogmother1776 posted:I thought mmt was for sure the lynch until votes starting coming in late on rarity The thing is, DM was active in the thread trying to push MMT while Rarity was at -1 (see: page 18) - so this feels dishonest.) On that note, actually, Max's vote on Rarity - you guessed it - is the vote that stood out to me out of those on her at EOD. Max posted:##vote Rarity I suppose. This is a pretty blatant +1. There isn't much else to say. There were plenty of other people around and discussing the vote, and this was all that he felt the need to say? It just feels really strange to me because Max hadn't even mentioned Rarity at all before voting her. It was a good time to jump on, too, with multiple people who hadn't laid down a vote yet saying they'd be comfortable with a Rarity vote, making it fairly likely that she'd be executed that day anyway. Basically, it would be fairly easy for scum to make a value judgment at this point and hop on for cred. Max posted:Reminder that we should read the flavor in ecco games. I actually wouldn't be surprised if the scum team couldn't talk to each other or something based off that. Scum communication speculation is a distraction and doesn't help us, IMO. I also don't understand how the conclusion is drawn from the flavor but maybe I'm dumb. ##vote Max I'm also eyeing DM real strongly at this point, as noted by my mid-case digression above, and would have no issue voting him as well.
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Apr 3, 2017 13:08
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dogmother1776 posted:I don't feel convinced I'm mafia, dunno how else to word that for you. The substance of the case against me is that I thought mmt would be the lynch yesterday right? why is this point indicative of my alignment? I was pushing mmt yesterday and thought momentum was building on her, figured she would be the lynch, then 8 hours before deadline rarity starts posting "idgaf lynch me" and gets lynched. You were pushing her like 3 hours before deadline when Rarity already had most of the votes on her, and in fact even as far as Rarity was a -1. I laid this out pretty clearly above. You're misrepresenting the timeline - and in fact weren't posting at all while the Rarity case was building up.
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Apr 3, 2017 14:42
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dogmother1776 posted:My posts 3 hours before deadline was more about the rarity train being suspicious as far as I remember. Mmt was very obviously not going to be the lynch at that point. I just wanted to make sure people knew that I thought mmt was the better lynch at the end, which would set me up to push mmt the next day. ok so I just reviewed your entire posting history on day 2 and if those posts weren't the ones you were referencing then you were lying - you made three other posts re MMT before those, and none of them are pushing MMT as a vote particularly hard. The only time that you actually come out and say "I think MMT is a better vote", "MMT > Rarity", etc, are where Rarity's already at -1. Also, why were you setting up to push MMT today in the first place? Was there some reluctance to reading D2 and entertaining other possibilities? It sounds like you had already made up your mind, at the end of D2, to push MMT today rather than examining D2 in light of the eventual flip.
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Apr 3, 2017 15:02
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dogmother1776 posted:how this looks to me: are you counting me as one of the 3 people calling you scum or one of the people reacting to you not understanding why people are calling you scum? this is important
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Apr 3, 2017 19:07
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I feel like I'm being ignored also I think that the timeline objections I've raised w/r/t you, DM, are legitimate
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Apr 3, 2017 20:19
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w/r/t being ignored you probably missed it in the posting flurry but Flying Leatherman posted:are you counting me as one of the 3 people calling you scum or one of the people reacting to you not understanding why people are calling you scum? this is important the timeline objections are the stuff that we've already discussed back on pg 23 - I won't recap because we were both actively posting back and forth about that.
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Apr 3, 2017 20:42
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Max has been engaging today and I'm willing, on balance, to hold off on my case especially with his being sick the last few days - can understand some confusion on his part given that. ##unvote My concerns re: dogmother's stated timeline and rationale for his D2 posting are not assuaged by his recent posts. He's at -2, and I plan to be here 'till deadline, so I'll hold off on a vote in the interests of discussion.
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Apr 3, 2017 23:37
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Truth be told I haven't given enough thought to DB to make an informed read on him, but he's not struck me as scummy. Does Rarity have a habit of calling her teammates town when she's playing scum, though? I thought she was known for bussing.dogmother1776 posted:I'm voting for survival at this point, I put all my reads out there if they're bad oh well. I'll lynch whoever isn't me. This is anti town. You would even vote for your town reads? :| Actually, do you have an opinion on me or YPM? I'm curious since you left us out of your reads post.
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Apr 4, 2017 01:22
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dogmother1776 posted:It's not anti town I would rather vote out a a <100% (anyone else) than a 100% (me). Ok, thanks  Pinterest Mom posted:Voting for someone you are <100% sure is town to keep someone you are 100% sure is town from dying isn't anti town. whoa that's weirdly similar phrasing
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Apr 4, 2017 01:39
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I realize those are quoted backwards and am double posting to draw attention to that, meant to do that the other way around
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Apr 4, 2017 01:41
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I'm actually super uncomfortable with how similar those posts are and if it's just a wild coincidence boy oh boy I guess we'll laugh about it at the end of the game but honestly that solidifies my opinion
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Apr 4, 2017 01:46
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this is a stickup posted:it's not so much a reason to do so, rather a reason to not switch i don't know what the conventions are on empty quoting in a mafia game but yeah pretty much this like, I thought I made it pretty clear what my core issues were with DM pages ago.
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Apr 4, 2017 02:00
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Pinterest Mom posted:It's not a reason what to switch, unless you think that both DM and I are prodigious idiots. ...i find it exceedingly odd that the exact same phrases are used in two posts minutes apart with only the clauses in a sentence rearranged? like, there's enough space within the English language to make me think that DM would have likely phrased it much differently if it were an original opinion as I have had a town read on you for much of this game, I'm choosing to believe that it's a hamfisted effort by DM to save himself rather than a screwup copy paste job from the scumdoc.
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Apr 4, 2017 02:07
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I know I said I'd be here, but I'm exhausted and won't be able to stay up for deadline. ##vote DM  The votecount robot puts him at -1 after this post.
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Apr 4, 2017 02:52
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Short night. I agree with Pmom - YPM was pretty active last night before the day ended and there might be something there. Will read Asiina and DB later today.
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Apr 4, 2017 10:46
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Max posted:So YPM moved on to dick but it didn't count. It would have put Dick over the edge and lunched him if he had unvoted first. this is a good point and I missed it. It was real close to the deadline, so makes sense that it could be putting on a show. Who hasn't checked in yet today? I know we have some time, so there shouldn't be an issue with holding off on a vote until later on.
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Apr 4, 2017 16:40
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Dick Bastardly posted:Stick... you killed TNL night two. I tracked you to the kill. Given the fact that (if you were scum) you would've been hard bussing Rarity, which by your own admission you wouldn't do, you have to be the SK. Now, with a dead scum, last night's kill speaks volumes. ...Huh. If we've, so far, been limited to 1 kill/night, why do you think there's an SK in the game? Do you think we have a doctor who's just been really, really on point?
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Apr 4, 2017 19:00
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Pinterest Mom posted:oh my god db's posting yesterday 100% does not track with "i followed stickup to a kill" I agree with you that this would be important information to put forth yesterday and there's very little justification for being so confident on dogmother with a positive track result. Dick Bastardly posted:I can't discount that possibly, but I believe 3/3 docs to be very unlikely. this is wholly inconsistent with an accusation of stick being an SK
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Apr 4, 2017 19:05
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Dick Bastardly posted:Just got home. this is so goddamn convoluted and there's absolutely zero evidence to support it, it's all completely wild speculation ##vote DB
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Apr 4, 2017 20:25
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the claimed night actions, in a vacuum, don't support it - the speculation is drawn from an analysis of stick's actions that is a bit wifom in any case - and it doesn't explain why this wouldn't have been useful knowledge yesterday.
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Apr 4, 2017 20:27
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| # ¿ Apr 24, 2024 21:48 |
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This was a really fun game to play. Thanks, Ecco.
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Apr 8, 2017 03:51
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