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Are the downsides for sacking in this game just less harsh than they were in previous ones? I know in some previous Total War games, people generally only sacked settlements they were gonna raze or expected to lose, because the public order and economic penalties from sacking were just too big.
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Apr 5, 2017 09:05
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I dislike sacking towns I plan to take as it knocks the town down a tier and the higher tiers take forever to get the pop for. Public order is typically a secondary concern though as far as I'm concerned. Rebels are just delicious xp sacks.
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Apr 5, 2017 10:44
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I prefer playing Greenskins of various types and I usually just get two full regions and then sack/raze everything. The problem is that sacking income is way more necessary at the start of the game than at the end. Currently doing a Beastmen / Greenskin co-op grand campaign on VH with one of my friends, having not played since launch. Man, this is and continues to be a really good game, and will continue to be so when the other two games get integrated.
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Apr 5, 2017 12:49
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JT Jag posted:Are the downsides for sacking in this game just less harsh than they were in previous ones? I can't remember the specifics, but doesn't sacking in say, Shogun 2 basically inflict permanent penalties to your income? Warhammer doesn't have that, and also settlements cap out their development way more quickly.
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Apr 5, 2017 12:54
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Morbidmind posted:I dislike sacking towns I plan to take as it knocks the town down a tier and the higher tiers take forever to get the pop for. Public order is typically a secondary concern though as far as I'm concerned. Rebels are just delicious xp sacks. the nature of the game means that if you try to be nice to outlying conquered land you will likely never see the top tier troops in the scope of the campaign. at ~100 turns mukip is already close to full life cycle on this campaign in terms of events. the real invasion will likely start in another 20 turns or so, and that is the last real hurdle he has to claiming overall victory. without sacking he would likely still be fielding a nontrivial number of bottom tier troops. this is not so bad if you don't mind relying on autoresolve, because 3 stacks of swordsmen and crossbows will still compute favorably in most circumstances, but it is rather disappointing to get to the chaos invasion and literally, as the ancient cliff yablonski would put it, push the button to win the game. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 15:17
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Turns 99-109 The Chaos armies are attacking through Hochland into our lands. This attempt on Talabheim was easily repulsed by Volkmar leading the city garrison.  Bechafen was razed to the ground and the citizens resettled in our own lands for now. We don't have the resources to hold the city and if we can't have it, nobody can. It's for the greater good. Franz and Todbringer next march on the town of Essen. There's a pair of vampire stacks there but given our previous experience it shouldn't be too much trouble.    Ah, except it was three full stacks and the vampire have learned that they cannot beat us with hordes of skeletons. Instead they have brought into being an army of rotting beasts and abominations to face us. This is a much more powerful vampire force with a ridiculous number of vetted Vargheists. Plus, they attack Boris instead of Franz' leading army, which means our armies won't start off next to each other and will have to link up during battle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwOttsb5DG4  Ouch. This almost turned into a total army wipe. Our retreating armies were hunted down with Todbringer's entire force being destroyed along with the attached heroes. Boris survived but one of our high-level captains and the life wizard Ruttschel were both killed. Karl Franz managed to lead the remnants of his army back into Talabecland, but at that point it was disbanded except for the heroes. It's better to start from scratch at this point and put Karl's blue-branch recruitment bonuses to use rebuilding our forces.  Hochland has been proactive in attempting to resettle the Empire's lost lands but it's questionable whether this is the right time for it. With the loss of our main armies, you might notice that we are running a 9000 gold-per-turn surplus. I let this run for a couple of turns in order to pay for some of the most extravagant building upgrades. With the vampires resurgent and Chaos pouring in from the north it doesn't seem like we have to worry about premature victory, so we may as well settle in for the long haul. We're looking at building the Altdorf Colleges of Magic, the Nuln Gunnery School, the Temple of Ulric, the final level of the port of Marienburg among other things.  The Chaos hordes are converging on the city-state of Middenheim. However, it's garrison is very strong and Reiksmarshall Taalson has left Marienburg to relieve the city.  The Chaos vanguard's reach has exceeded their grasp in assaulting Middenheim. It's safe for now.  In the southeastern theatre, High King Thorgrim Grudgebearer has finally retaken the Dwarf trade port of Barak Varr from the greenskins and informed us that trade between the old allies is possible once more. The Dwarfs are the strongest faction in the game right now. They are very happy with us since they have been at war with the vampires themselves numerous times. The Greenskins faction led by Grimgor Ironhide have done poorly it seems; we haven't made contact with them but I noticed all sorts of factions have been at war with them throughout the game. In particular, the Vlad branch of the von Carsteins have mercifully dedicated most of their efforts against the greenskins instead of us.   Speaking of greenskins, more of them showed up in our lands, perhaps fleeing from the vengeance of the Dwarfs.  Nordland's port town was razed by Norscan raiders, making sea-based trade impossible. We'll have to wait for them to rebuild the town before trade can resume, assuming they even continue to survive. Nordland has the unenviable distinction of being the closest faction to Norsca along with now-gone Kislev so they are hard-pressed at the moment, but we need some breathing room ourselves to make new and better armies so they'll have to hold the line for us alongside Hochland.  von Wulfen's army has arrived in Talabecland to aid the defence while our armies are rebuilt. This necromancer and his minions are easily defeated by these fresh troops.  But that was only a skirmish. More armies push into our lands and there aren't many defenders to halt them. von Wulfen will have to hold Talabheim for a while yet.  Our last legendary lord Balthasar Gelt has become available and soon the full might of the Colleges of Magic will be unleashed on the invaders. Once we have Warhammer Hogwarts done we'll be able to recruit a large number of rank-10 wizards to support our armies.
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Apr 5, 2017 22:30
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It says a lot about this campaign that the loss against the Vampires wasn't close to being the most dire of defeats. Edit: Sounds like at least the wizard will be fairly quickly replaced. Artificer fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Apr 5, 2017 |
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Apr 5, 2017 22:49
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Still ouch. Least you took out Mannfred. So it will take a little while for them to get going again.
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Apr 5, 2017 23:31
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so how are you building your armies now to deal with all those dire fruitbats?
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Apr 5, 2017 23:43
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Couple things you might of tried in that battle would of been to have Karl flying in front of your army in the hopes of being a flycatcher against the vargheist swarm, with his healing potion and armor he probably could of tanked as many as could swarm him while your ranged units all focused fire on the mass. The other thing would of been to reform your spears into a double line, once the monsters bowled over your first line you could of sent the second in to surround and bog down the vargheist before they could fly up and decimate a new unit, with that many vargheist no single spear unit is going to be able to stand up long enough to attack back once they swoop down and knock everyone around. Other thing to keep in mind is to concentrate any available magic weapons or abilities on the ethereal units like the banshee, ethereal units take 80% less damage from everything else so anything none-magical you commit to it is just going to get exhausted.
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Apr 6, 2017 00:02
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The Empire can just crank out high level wizards once Gelt and the Colleges are set up, and magic can be a huge battle winner if used right. Vortex spells are a lot more powerful now that they don't move around as much when overcasted.
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Apr 6, 2017 00:10
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That Vargheist swarm is nightmarish 
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Apr 6, 2017 00:11
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Dandywalken posted:That Vargheist swarm is nightmarish And I must say, when I played a Von Carstein campaign, doing the same sort of thing with Isabella (with her army skills that give them enhanced armour and attack and what not) is amazing. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Apr 6, 2017 00:21
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Stephen9001 posted:And I must say, when I played a Von Carstein campaign, doing the same sort of thing with Isabella (with her army skills that give them enhanced armour and attack and what not) is amazing.
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Apr 6, 2017 00:27
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Have they added Hochland Longrifles into the game yet?
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Apr 6, 2017 01:47
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Finally bought this game after watching this LP. It's my first Total War games, but I'm really loving it so far. I do wish there was a bit more information on a whole lot of things, but I'm learning as I go. I've played Empire to turn 30, and although they're fun, I hate being smack dab in the middle of the map, and was wondering if there's a better race to play that starts in a more defensible position.
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Apr 6, 2017 02:39
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If you want defensible positions, try the dwarves. You pretty much only have to deal with orcs and goblins early on. Your early-game infantry is leagues better than other early-game infantry, too.
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Apr 6, 2017 02:43
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PotatoManJack posted:Finally bought this game after watching this LP. It's my first Total War games, but I'm really loving it so far. I do wish there was a bit more information on a whole lot of things, but I'm learning as I go. Try Dwarves. E: beaten.
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Apr 6, 2017 02:45
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Yeah that was a painful loss, but again at least it looks like Franz is in a MUCH better location to rebound from than when Franz wiped against the goblins at the start of the game.
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Apr 6, 2017 02:45
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PotatoManJack posted:I've played Empire to turn 30, and although they're fun, I hate being smack dab in the middle of the map, and was wondering if there's a better race to play that starts in a more defensible position.
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Apr 6, 2017 02:46
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Deadmeat5150 posted:Have they added Hochland Longrifles into the game yet? No, game is trash sorry.
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Apr 6, 2017 03:03
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Yeah, the Dwarfs definitely seem like one of the best starting options (especially if you use Grombrindal as the starting legendary lord). I always get torn between trying to smother the Greenskins in their crib and marching North to take mount Gunbad, though.
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Apr 6, 2017 07:26
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Yvonmukluk posted:Yeah, the Dwarfs definitely seem like one of the best starting options (especially if you use Grombrindal as the starting legendary lord). Probably better to go after the Greenskins. They're an existential threat that will unite the badlands against you, gunbad is a settlement you'll end up taking anyway.
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Apr 6, 2017 07:54
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Yvonmukluk posted:Yeah, the Dwarfs definitely seem like one of the best starting options (especially if you use Grombrindal as the starting legendary lord). Por que no los dos? Admittedly I play on normal.
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Apr 6, 2017 09:53
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Por que no los dos? So do I, I just can't seem to do it. Nw you know my terrible secret: I am bad at Total Warhammer. 
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Apr 6, 2017 10:02
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Don't worry, I play TW like they were made by Paradox. The only time I play out battles is when I'm forced to for questlines.
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Apr 6, 2017 10:10
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I think I have actually gotten worse at the game.
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Apr 7, 2017 03:00
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So in the siege of Bechafen, at about the 13:45 mark, what was that giant deathaphant that was pulping dudes with every blow?
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Apr 7, 2017 03:28
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mercenarynuker posted:So in the siege of Bechafen, at about the 13:45 mark, what was that giant deathaphant that was pulping dudes with every blow? Varghulf. http://totalwarwarhammer.gamepedia.com/Varghulf It's pretty badass, but is easier to rout with a bunch of dudes. Still, a veteran one is a bitch and a half to kill.
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Apr 7, 2017 07:52
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the biggest thing to note about dwarves is that their base infantry, the dwarf warrior, is actually a perfectly serviceable line unit the entire game. you will probably upgrade to Longbeards pretty naturally, but if you're in a pinch basic warriors will typically be good enough to hold a line.
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Apr 7, 2017 15:36
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Coolguye posted:the biggest thing to note about dwarves is that their base infantry, the dwarf warrior, is actually a perfectly serviceable line unit the entire game. you will probably upgrade to Longbeards pretty naturally, but if you're in a pinch basic warriors will typically be good enough to hold a line. Dwarf armies can be a bitch to break playing as Greenskins. Especially with only access to early infantry units. My usual strategy for dealing with this in the campaign is usually just to try and bring some more boyz.
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Apr 7, 2017 16:51
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Picking up the early red upgrades which give +12 melee attack to Ork Boys helps. Going from 26 attack to 38 is a huge boost and means your Boys can hold the line with dwarf warriors quite well. And at least once dwarfs break, they break for good. Orks breaking all the time then rallying again is really annoying in tight battles.
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Apr 7, 2017 17:03
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Coolguye posted:the biggest thing to note about dwarves is that their base infantry, the dwarf warrior, is actually a perfectly serviceable line unit the entire game. you will probably upgrade to Longbeards pretty naturally, but if you're in a pinch basic warriors will typically be good enough to hold a line. A little bit of investment can make the warriors downright beastly. Axe lord yields 12 melee attack/defense with 3 points; an early tech adds 5 atk/def too, and then about 15 turns later down that same path is Interlocking Shields which adds 5 armor and 5 defense to all infantry with shields - ie, your base dwarf warriors. And then there's a 10% weapon damage buff later down that line too, which is a prereq to 10% weapon damage for hammerers so you might be getting that anyway. And there's an early tech for +2 exp too. A lot of that tech applies to Longbeards as well, so they'll become somewhat better, but they benefit from a later Lord skill instead of Axe Lord and don't benefit from the early +5 atk/def buff. Bottom line is that about 25 turns in, you can have dwarf warriors with stats basically better than Longbeards.
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Apr 7, 2017 17:56
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Randarkman posted:Dwarf armies can be a bitch to break playing as Greenskins. Especially with only access to early infantry units. My usual strategy for dealing with this in the campaign is usually just to try and bring some more boyz. That sounds like the lore appropriate solution for smashing stunties.
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Apr 8, 2017 00:54
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Apr 8, 2017 07:37
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Turns 109-119 We are at war with the Skaelings, Varg (both Norscan factions), Chaos Warriors, Red Horn tribe and Vampire Counts. There are around a dozen hostile armies raiding our territory and besieging our cities and towns. There's five enemy stacks just in this screenshot. Karl Franz is reorganizing our armies in Reikland to take advantage of all the advanced buildings we put up, so the plan is to hold out for now and bleed the enemy forces against our defensive strong points, while enduring the income hits from raiding.  Boris Todbringer leads a quickly-raised relief army to Talabheim, which is under siege by both Chaos and the undead. Talabehim's defences didn't really have time to get built up properly and only has level-1 walls, so it's chances of holding out alone are slim. Todbringer's army isn't too great but it ought to help hold the front line while more powerful armies are raised. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUW0s62WYuQ  The remnants were hunted down and destroyed afterwards. That's one less Chaos army to deal with.  In Wissenland, the beastmen we declared war on are rampaging around the countryside. Fortunately, our ally Count Leitdorf has ridden out to destroy them for us. This is really good because we have nothing to spare for Wissenland and we can't afford the economic hit from losing any of those built-up towns.  The Averland army went ahead and destroyed that beastmen stack for us. The remnants fled within range of Wissenburg's garrison before they were hunted down by Count Leitdorf, which is why we're seeing this battle screen. Because we're both at war with the beastmen we have the option to send out our garrison to help them mop up, which also improves our relations.  Back in Altdorf, Karl Franz is busily recruiting new armies. Chaos armies fields lots of monsters, fast cavalry and heavy chariots. We can't relying on armies of sword/spearmen and crossbowmen to deliver results anymore. The auto-resolve feature seriously undervalues the Chaos armies strength so we could win that way, but I'm playing out the battles unless the power bar is heavily in my favour.  Even if we lift the Chaos siege of Talabheim, it seems like we'll immediately have to deal with the vampires afterwards.  Now we're talking. Dozens of turns spent looting enemy settlements and building up Reikland have got us to this. We're going to appoint to the office of Supreme Patriarch (+2 wizard recruit level) one of our high-level characters, have Balthasar Gelt provide his bonus (also +2 wizard recruit level) and then recruit level 11 wizards straight out of college. We're going to need these battle wizards to start turning things around for us.   Boris Todbringer already destroyed one Chaos army but there's still two left. It's questionable whether he can win this battle with the low-tier infantry he has, but we need to give Talabheim some breathing room. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMBXaQCM4MY   Count Todbringer retreats back to Middenland, his surviving men have done all they can to aid the besieged defenders. The Chaos armies decided to retreat after taking such heavy losses, no longer confident of storming the city walls. But Talabheim only gets one turn of respite before Mannfred closes in. Still, the garrison units were on half-health so it was a much-needed turn for army recuperation and the garrison units health was topped up to about 90%.     While Boris was attempting to lift the Talabheim siege his own city was attacked itself. There were only three stacks when the siege started, the arrival of the fourth Varg army is making this a very dicey scenario. There were so many stacks outside that it seemed like a suicide mission to send Boris that way, so instead we are relying on the city garrison. There are no other troops inside Middenheim but it is one of our strongest garrisons we have with a level-5 city and level-3 walls. It's a shame that the Great Temple of Ulric wasn't completed since that would add even more to the garrison but this will have to do. We can ill-afford to lose the City of the White Wolf to the Chaos invaders as they will certainly raze it to the ground, a huge strategic loss. Chariots and Trolls can't climb walls, but what they can do is bully their way through the gates and then dash for the town square, where they win the battle by holding a victory point for 3 minutes. This must be prevented at all costs so we'll be using the handgunners carefully to support out halberdiers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPRGkK8Jud4  This really was super close. If that last batch of trolls and chariots had made their way into the town square we wouldn't have been able to get them out in time, or at all since both of them beat the crap out of Greatswords, which is all we had left.  Middenheim stands tall, but Talabheim has to contend with additional vampire reinforcements.  The Wood Elves declared war on the Chaos forces and our relations have improved thanks to all the Chaos armies we've defeated. We get a simple non-aggression pact out of them.   A fourth vampire army showed to support their Talabheim siege. This makes the situation exceedingly desperate at the Talabheim garrison is not nearly as strong as tht of Middenheim. It's level-3 city with level-1 walls. It does have von Wolfen's army inside, but his army was designed to be essentially a mid-game peacekeeping force and isn't really cut out for the front line. Balthasar Gelt leads the first of our newly-raised armies to provide support. He's packing a magic death laser, helblaster volley guns and a literal battle tank as some of the Empire's latest innovations.    This is Marius Albrecht, our newest Battle Wizard. He may look like a filthy, inebriated hobo but he knows some of the most powerful spells such as Penumbral Pendulum and Pit of Shades.  Seems like the greenskins and beastmen are having a sleepover party together in Wissenland. We really don't have the resources to respond to respond that while also defending Middenland and Talabecland at the same time, let's hope that Count Leitdorf decides to bail us out again because we are tapped out for men.   We are seeing some welcome relief as the normally isolationist Wood Elves march out of their forest home in force. They didn't bother asking for permission to trespass our lands but Karl Franz will probably overlook that, given the circumstances.  Oluf Slaughterborg leads what must be the third doomed attempt so far to storm Marienburg by the Norscans.   Gelt arrives to face down the armies that previously laid waste to the best stuff we had with their elite Varghulf swarm. This battle can't be won under any circumstances, but hopefully we can grind down enough of the undead units to make the following siege defence of Talabheim viable. This ought not to result in an army wipe, nearby is the allied city of Hergig in Hochland. Hergig is level-5 city with level-3 walls much like Middenheim, so Balthasar's army can retreat back to there and rely on the allied garrison coming out to help us if necessary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODiyNVeSsVA  We knew how this was going to turn out. Overall, I'm not too satisfied with what we managed to accomplish. Let's hope it was enough, for Talabheim's sake.  The glowing-eyes brigade that previously besieged Talabehim has consolidated their remaining forces after defeating Boris Todbringer's army and have pushed deeper into the Empire. But that's pretty close to Altdorf where our army recruitment is taking place so they won't be around for much longer.  Boris gets his revenge for his earlier defeat and wiped out the Chaos invaders.   The first wave of the Chaos armies reached almost as far as Reikland after destroying Kislev in the northeast. Now comes the next wave.  The Great Temple was finally completed, at great financial cost and quite a few turns of upgrading and building. Not only does it provide huge corruption cleansing to Middenland, a province that been plagued with corruption problems all game, but it cleanses all of Middenlands neighbours too. That is the Wasteland, Reikland, Talabecland, Hochland and Nordland. We can also recruit high-level warrior priests and witch hunters now, too. Deus Vult!  The undead storm Talabheim. Even with an army present to supplement the garrison this is perhaps an even more desperate battle than the one for Middenheim. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwTrohGsBPk   Maternus von Wulfen was a level 15 general, sadly he ended up tapped in Talabheim at an unfortunate moment. His heroes were highly-leveled too. The vampire's took the city from us once again. We did kill most of the Varghulfs so there's one nightmare over for the time being.
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Apr 8, 2017 07:38
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Jeeze, you really are beset on all sides. If you could focus on any one of these enemies you would be able to wipe them out, but... that would be the whole point wouldn't it... You will rarely only have one enemy.
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Apr 8, 2017 08:22
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Man the Vampires and Chaos keep coming. And from the sound of it Archaon is getting ready to move. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Apr 8, 2017 |
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Apr 8, 2017 08:39
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Did Chaos not even wardec the Vampires this time around, or did they do it and are just doing the usual laser-focus-on-the-human act?MonsterEnvy posted:Man the Vampires and Chaos keep coming. And from the sound of it Archaon is getting ready to move. That's just the horde respawn message. You'll know it when the Everyawn shows up.
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Apr 8, 2017 08:44
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Now all thats needed is for Vlad to get involved for this situation to just get really bad.
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Apr 8, 2017 08:50
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