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3DHouseofBeef
May 10, 2006



tadashi posted:

If you're essentially saying their basic stats are similar other than the fact that one of them does it via HR and one of them does it via doubles then you can estimate it via weighted runs created. WRC takes batting outcomes and weighs them against the league to figure out how much each outcome is worth in a various season. Here are the values for last year:
http://www.fangraphs.com/guts.aspx?type=cn
wBB - .691
wHBP - .721
w1B - .878
w2B - 1.242
w3B - 1.569
wHR - 2.015

150 * 1.242 = 186.3
75 * 2.015 = 151.125

So my guess is that, all things being equal, Rick would end up more valuable hitter according to wrc/wRC+ in the context of 2016 scoring environment. It looks to me, just skimming that table I linked, I can't see a year where it looks like it would be different.

If anybody is better with stats, I'd love to hear another explanation.


E: If anyone is into these sort of weird baseball hypotheticals (or questions like how good would Clayton Kershaw be if he added a knuckleball), I cannot recommend the Effecively Wild podcast enough. It's very well made and entertaining.

That's a pretty good point. To add to that, I think it's important to keep in mind that the value of each skill (that is if you are concerned with RBIs) is still dependent on runners on base. So it may be easy to look at Tony's homeruns and say "Wow, that guys is going to drive in a lot of runners" but that may not be true depending on the situations he comes up to hit in. If the bases are always empty when Tony hits, the maximum value of a home run is one run. If Rick always hits in a bases loaded situation, his double is worth 2-3 runs per double. Obviously then Rick will create more runs as he has more opportunity to do so.

And opportunity is the key term here as well. With 150 XBHs, Rick has more opportunity to drive runners in. He quite literally has double the opportunities Tony does to do so. Think of in terms of dice, if you roll a 4 (with numbers 1-4) sided dice 75 times and another four sided dice (numbered 0-3) 150 times, which dice will roll the greatest sum of the rolls? Again, it's possible one always rolls to highest and the other to the lowest, but probabilistically speaking, the 0-3 dice should have a higher average generally speaking.

To put it another way, the average dice roll on a 1-4 dice is 2.5 (sum value of the face of the dice divide by sides, (1+2+3+4)/4=2.5). So Tony's homerun will roughly speaking drive in about 2.5 runners per homerun. On a 0-3 dice, the average dice roll will be 1.5 ((0+1+2+3)/4=1.5) so Rick will drive in about 1.5 runners per double. But, Tony does this 75 times and Rick does this 150 times. So for Tony, he will generate 187.5 RBIs (2.5 * 75) and Rick will generate 225 RBIs (1.5 * 150).

Of course that's just looking at simple averages and not using true weighted values.

3DHouseofBeef fucked around with this message at Mar 28, 2017 around 01:16

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TheShazbot
Feb 20, 2011



The closest MLB team to me is in Seattle, and I have a A-Short Season team locally. (Hillsboro Hops)

Should I go to a local game first before going to Safeco? Never really been to a beisbol game before.

The Walrus
Jul 9, 2002



TheShazbot posted:

The closest MLB team to me is in Seattle, and I have a A-Short Season team locally. (Hillsboro Hops)

Should I go to a local game first before going to Safeco? Never really been to a beisbol game before.

just see an mlb game. I don't even really like watching spring training, the level of play is just so different.

"for the love of the game" purists may disagree with me

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010


Minor league baseball has its' own charm, but you should just go to whichever you'd rather do. Although I urge you to support your local squad.

Elizabeth Mills
Jan 2, 2005

Weyland's Top Executive

Corporate Feed


TheShazbot posted:

The closest MLB team to me is in Seattle, and I have a A-Short Season team locally. (Hillsboro Hops)

Should I go to a local game first before going to Safeco? Never really been to a beisbol game before.

I cannot state how exponentially cheaper it is to see a minor-league team. If you've never been before, you can sit right next to the dugout for less than $20, whereas being in the bleachers behind centerfield at Safeco is like $35, and next to the dugout is $600 a ticket and there aren't any tickets because those seats are all owned by companies.

It depends on if you want to spoil yourself, like sitting in first class. But seeing minor leaguers up close is way better IMO (and cheaper)

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair


shadok posted:

Nobody gets balks. A few years ago a SBNation writer paraphrased the official rules thusly:

Both times I've sat down with baseball newbies to watch/explain a game on TV, there's been a balk. They look at me and I just say "That's called a balk, all of the runners advance. Nobody knows what a balk actually is."

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008



Balks are good.

Bird in a Blender
Nov 17, 2005

It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.


Balks are good because it's a funny sounding word and I get to yell it at the ump anytime the opposing pitcher throws to first. No, I don't know how to describe a balk.

Edit: Also, yes go see a minor league game. Not only are the tickets cheaper, but the concessions stands are cheaper too. I went to an Independent league game outside Cleveland about two years back. I think I paid $15 to sit like 5 rows up from home plate, and beers were $4 each.

iKickDogs
Aug 31, 2001



The only reason why balks are difficult to understand is that lefties balk every time they throw to first. If that's not going to be called, what is a balk? What is life? Who am I?

This is where the $4 beers come in.

CubsWoo
Aug 17, 2005

Where the big boys RAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGH FUCK YOU


Go to as many low-A games as you can and get autographs. Store them in your root cellar and in 10 years open up the box to find the two guys who had a cup of coffee during September callups, the one guy still stuck in AAAA hell, the one who was in serious contention for Player of the Month before his thigh exploded and a mess of 'oh yeah haha that guy, I think he coaches high school ball in Wyoming/Wasn't he in that KBO compilation video two years ago' types

Fleetwood
Mar 26, 2010

arrippen andah tehrrun arrippen andah tehrrun



TheShazbot posted:

...I have a A-Short Season team locally. (Hillsboro Hops)

Should I go to a local game first before going to Safeco? Never really been to a beisbol game before.

I would go just to get a Hops cap. They are near the top for logos.

Minor league games are lots of fun. Easy parking, wild promo nights, cheap tickets, laid back crowd...

AA games are the best because because you get the perfect mix of high quality play, accessibility, and top prospects.

I was fortunate enough to see Jeff Bagwell play for New Britain and then years later, Derek Jeter in Albany-Colonie. Those are awesome sports memories and they were both on the cusp of breaking into the big leagues at the times I saw them.

OTOH, Safeco looks like a beautiful park and I would watch games there as often as possible.

R.D. Mangles
Jan 10, 2004


AAA games own because there's always at least one or two washed up guys who you haven't thought about in five years coming out of nowhere.

ZenVulgarity
Oct 9, 2012

I made the hat by transforming my zen


Intruder posted:

Back in my days we used VORP

*yells at cloud*

Badfinger
Dec 16, 2004

Timeouts?!

We'll take care of that.


I don't think you should choose between either going to MLB or MiLB, but if you're feeling out whether going to a baseball game is something you're interested in definitely see a minor league game. They're as tuned to involve the crowd and be fan friendly as any professional sport can be.

I will quote from the wikipedia article about our local minor league team to convince you of this.

quote:

"The Blue Rocks have three mascots. One is Rocky Bluewinkle, a blue moose. Another is Mr. Celery, a stalk of celery that comes out to "Song 2" by Blur when Wilmington scores a run, and dances and tosses stalks of celery into the crowd whenever a Blue Rocks player hits a home run. Finally, there is Rubble, a giant blue rock."

Plus for $10 you get an awesome seat and you can bug an entire section by pointing at "prospects".

Bird in a Blender
Nov 17, 2005

It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.


Do they serve bloody marys that I can dip my celebratory celery into?

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

The new coffee delivery sensation that's sweeping the nation!


Bird in a Blender posted:

Balks are good because it's a funny sounding word and I get to yell it at the ump anytime the opposing pitcher throws to first. No, I don't know how to describe a balk.

I explain balks the same way I explain icing in hockey: it has a clear definition and rules behind it, but for some reason the officials have the power to arbitrarily decide somebody doing it doesn't get called for it which makes it seem much more confusing than it really is.

A Real Horse
Oct 26, 2013


TheShazbot posted:

The closest MLB team to me is in Seattle, and I have a A-Short Season team locally. (Hillsboro Hops)

Should I go to a local game first before going to Safeco? Never really been to a beisbol game before.

Echoing others and saying go see the minor league team when you can. I have a single A short season team near me (Boise Hawks) and every game ends up being wonderful due to the good cheap seats and cheap beer. Plus you get to see players like ROCK SHOULDERS, a third baseman we had a couple years ago with the best name ever.

Also Safeco is awesome, but expensive.

R.D. Mangles
Jan 10, 2004


no, no, no, mister shoulders is my father's name

Shiroc
May 16, 2009


A Real Horse posted:

Also Safeco is awesome, but expensive.

Safeco is supposed to be one of the most expensive, behind the Yankees, Cubs and Red Sox. Which certainly isn't due to the history of the stadium or the quality of play over the years.

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011


A balk is whatever Balkin' Bob Davidson decides is a balk.


After Bill Veeck pinch-hit noted midget Eddie Gaedel, MLB instituted some rule prevent that from happening again. What was that rule and is it still in effect? Does a MLB player have to be over 5 feet to play ball?

How valuable would Eddie Gaedel be as a member of the 25 man squad, realistically? Assume he draws a walk every other PA and gets on base at a .500 clip. That's great. But he would be an easy out running the bases, so he would need to be swapped for a runner. That's burning three players for a single base. Worth it?

JeterianGiftBasket
Jul 9, 2016

#re2pect


Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

After Bill Veeck pinch-hit noted midget Eddie Gaedel, MLB instituted some rule prevent that from happening again. What was that rule and is it still in effect? Does a MLB player have to be over 5 feet to play ball?

Well, Jose Altuve was an All-Star, so clearly no.

But actually, for a serious answer, as I understand it, the rule is that MLB has to approve all contracts before any player can play in a game, so while there is not an actual rule against extremely short people, any gimmick contracts would not get approved.

Badfinger
Dec 16, 2004

Timeouts?!

We'll take care of that.


Bird in a Blender posted:

Do they serve bloody marys that I can dip my celebratory celery into?

One of the pubs serves cocktails, so I'm going to answer in the affirmative for this question.

Twenty Four
Dec 21, 2008

HAIKOOLIGAN

3DHouseofBeef posted:

That's a pretty good point. To add to that, I think it's important to keep in mind that the value of each skill (that is if you are concerned with RBIs) is still dependent on runners on base. So it may be easy to look at Tony's homeruns and say "Wow, that guys is going to drive in a lot of runners" but that may not be true depending on the situations he comes up to hit in. If the bases are always empty when Tony hits, the maximum value of a home run is one run. If Rick always hits in a bases loaded situation, his double is worth 2-3 runs per double. Obviously then Rick will create more runs as he has more opportunity to do so.

And opportunity is the key term here as well. With 150 XBHs, Rick has more opportunity to drive runners in. He quite literally has double the opportunities Tony does to do so. Think of in terms of dice, if you roll a 4 (with numbers 1-4) sided dice 75 times and another four sided dice (numbered 0-3) 150 times, which dice will roll the greatest sum of the rolls? Again, it's possible one always rolls to highest and the other to the lowest, but probabilistically speaking, the 0-3 dice should have a higher average generally speaking.

To put it another way, the average dice roll on a 1-4 dice is 2.5 (sum value of the face of the dice divide by sides, (1+2+3+4)/4=2.5). So Tony's homerun will roughly speaking drive in about 2.5 runners per homerun. On a 0-3 dice, the average dice roll will be 1.5 ((0+1+2+3)/4=1.5) so Rick will drive in about 1.5 runners per double. But, Tony does this 75 times and Rick does this 150 times. So for Tony, he will generate 187.5 RBIs (2.5 * 75) and Rick will generate 225 RBIs (1.5 * 150).

Of course that's just looking at simple averages and not using true weighted values.

Also to think about is not just runs generated but outs generated. Like a dinger = no outs, but you could get a double and hit into a double play every time (unlikely) or even just one out.

-------------

Unrelated, not a newbie question but a newbie rule question. Since the new intentional walk rule was brought up, it got me thinking. Can a manager signal for an intentional walk part way through the count? Like when a Mike Trout or Paul Goldschmidt is at bat and the pitcher gets behind in the count say 3-0 and they have an open base. Sometimes they decide to just say screw it and throw the last ball on purpose and let them take their base rather then risk them hitting for extra bases or a homer, especially if they think it's time to pull the pitcher.

Do they still throw the last ball or do they just say "I give up go to first" now? Has this happened yet? It obviously wouldn't really save any time (not that this whole thing saves much anyhow) but it could prevent a wild pitch or a hittable miss from a pitcher who is out of gas.

Edit - After some digging around it seems that managers can issue an intentional walk on any count. On the other hand, intentional walks can apparantly still be done the old way, if say you wanted to buy a reliever some more warmup time. Huh. Still not sure if it has happened yet mid count.

Twenty Four fucked around with this message at Apr 6, 2017 around 10:54

Quad
Dec 31, 2007

10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD"
20 GOTO 10
END

Where do people stream games that isn't mlb.tv nowadays? I hope this question isn't

Infidel Castro
Jun 8, 2010

HELLO MY BABY
HELLO MY HONEY
HELLO MY PERNELL-KARL
♪ ♩ ♪ ♩ ♩





Quad posted:

Where do people stream games that isn't mlb.tv nowadays? I hope this question isn't

If is your concern, there's an account sharing thread and you could join a group for less than $30.

patonthebach
Aug 22, 2016

Border Patrol


I heard rumors about a "Read It" that has a MLB Streams subreddit. But who knows. Could just be whispers in the wind.

Grem
Mar 29, 2004

I've switched to the Trump side... the right side, the white side.


What's the popular theory on when someone starts a new gif thread?

Ammat The Ankh
Sep 7, 2010

If it's one thing I can't stand, it's people bunting.


Grem posted:

What's the popular theory on when someone starts a new gif thread?

Whenever it is you start the thread.



Be the content you want to see on the forums, friend.

Grem
Mar 29, 2004

I've switched to the Trump side... the right side, the white side.


Ammat The Ankh posted:

Whenever it is you start the thread.



Be the content you want to see on the forums, friend.

I don't have any gifs and also I'm lazy as gently caress.

e: maybe I'll start it tomorrow. Anyone have a link for the last one?

Hand Knit
Oct 24, 2005

Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

Quad posted:

Where do people stream games that isn't mlb.tv nowadays? I hope this question isn't

The rule of thumb on stream sharing is that if it's something just on regular TV (and all MLB games would fall under this), then you're good. PPVs would be

The Walrus
Jul 9, 2002



Hand Knit posted:

The rule of thumb on stream sharing is that if it's something just on regular TV (and all MLB games would fall under this), then you're good. PPVs would be

oh cool then yeah atdhe.ru has been the source for streaming sports for like 10 years or more now.

cis autodrag
Jan 6, 2012

that's just applause from ghosts




Gary’s Answer

The Walrus posted:

oh cool then yeah atdhe.ru has been the source for streaming sports for like 10 years or more now.

As long as you turn your ad blocker and umatrix up to 11 and are very careful about what you white list.

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011


How does the Mexican League work? Its under the AAA umbrella, but doesn't have any affiliations with MLB or the other Minor Leagues. The Mexican league does its own thing but gets subsidized by MiLB?

Infidel Castro
Jun 8, 2010

HELLO MY BABY
HELLO MY HONEY
HELLO MY PERNELL-KARL
♪ ♩ ♪ ♩ ♩





Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

How does the Mexican League work? Its under the AAA umbrella, but doesn't have any affiliations with MLB or the other Minor Leagues. The Mexican league does its own thing but gets subsidized by MiLB?
Calling the Mexican League a Class-AAA league is really just a way of describing the quality of players. MiLB is bascially saying the Mexican League's players are roughly as good as players in the International League and PCL.

Also MiLB doesn't subsidize its member clubs. It handles administrative poo poo like rules/regulations, licensing, merchandising, and ticketing. It's like a player's agent, only for baseball teams/leagues. The teams themselves are individually owned businesses (unless their affiliated MLB club owns them).

Elizabeth Mills
Jan 2, 2005

Weyland's Top Executive

Corporate Feed


Who has the worst season, by WAR, in the last 25 years. It's gotta be Adam Dunn 2011, right?

What would a -5 WAR season look like?

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Tell him about the Twinkie.

Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:

Who has the worst season, by WAR, in the last 25 years. It's gotta be Adam Dunn 2011, right?

What would a -5 WAR season look like?

2011 Dunn was -2.9 bWAR. Jerry Royster managed to pull off a -4.0 in 1977 (.216 / .278 / .288 for an OPS+ of 46).

Timby fucked around with this message at Apr 24, 2017 around 22:48

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010


Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:

Who has the worst season, by WAR, in the last 25 years. It's gotta be Adam Dunn 2011, right?

What would a -5 WAR season look like?

Edit: Read your question wrong, the actual answer is Cristian Guzman in '99 with 3.1. '11 Dunn is 4th with 2.9, Jose Guillen in '97 and Dave McCarty in '93 were all tied with 3.1.

Also, nobody has ever achieved a -5.0 WAR according to Fangraphs. The worst ever is is Jim Levey in 1933, he had a -4.0. He slashed 195/237/240 in 567 PA. Only hit 2 dingers during an era where people were killing the ball like it pissed off the Mafia.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...ers=0&sort=22,a

El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at Apr 24, 2017 around 22:45

Elizabeth Mills
Jan 2, 2005

Weyland's Top Executive

Corporate Feed


El Gallinero Gros posted:

Edit: Read your question wrong, the actual answer is Cristian Guzman in '99 with 3.1. '11 Dunn is 4th with 2.9, Jose Guillen in '97 and Dave McCarty in '93 were all tied with 3.1.

Also, nobody has ever achieved a -5.0 WAR according to Fangraphs. The worst ever is is Jim Levey in 1933, he had a -4.0. He slashed 195/237/240 in 567 PA. Only hit 2 dingers during an era where people were killing the ball like it pissed off the Mafia.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...ers=0&sort=22,a

I feel like Tommy Thevenow (who, despite being named Thieve Now, stole just 1 base)'s 1930 season might be worse, just because he had 70 more at bats that could've gone to better players. Also, he did it with a .300 BABIP, while the other guys got pretty unlucky.

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010


Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:

I feel like Tommy Thevenow (who, despite being named Thieve Now, stole just 1 base)'s 1930 season might be worse, just because he had 70 more at bats that could've gone to better players. Also, he did it with a .300 BABIP, while the other guys got pretty unlucky.

OTOH, there are Twins fans reading this going "Yes, Guzman is the worst player ever, thanks for asking".

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TequilaJesus
Mar 17, 2009

CONFIRMED FOR JAY

Player X comes up to bat. There are already 2 outs, and Player Y is on first. Before a single pitch is thrown, the pitcher throws to first and gets Player Y out because he was leading off too far. The inning ends.

Does this count against Player X's batting average?

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