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Grittybeard
Mar 29, 2010


TequilaJesus posted:

Player X comes up to bat. There are already 2 outs, and Player Y is on first. Before a single pitch is thrown, the pitcher throws to first and gets Player Y out because he was leading off too far. The inning ends.

Does this count against Player X's batting average?

It doesn't count either as an at bat (so no batting average loss) or a plate appearance (no OBP% loss) I believe. It's like he never came up as far as I know.

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Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


That is correct. If you don't actually get to finish batting you get neither a PA or an AB, and your average (AB dependent) and OBP (PA dependent) aren't changed.

So, a caught stealing ending the inning won't sink your OBP, and a pitcher balk won't raise it. In both cases, you weren't finished.

Good Dog
Oct 16, 2008

Who threw this cat at me?

Dinosaur Gum

Does it count for stats such as "pitches per inning" for a pitcher or "pitches per plate appearance"? Obviously the pitches happen in terms of a pitch count a starter may be on, but are they recorded at all?

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008



He didn't pitch so why would it?

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


Here's my variation of the question: if your PA is cut off by someone getting caught and ending the inning, do you start again on the next inning or the next in the order? Because an out was recorded, but it wasn't your out.

This is the kind of event I've seen dozens of times, but I've never bothered to keep track of the order.

WienerDog
Apr 8, 2007
Resident Rocking Dachshund

Craptacular! posted:

Here's my variation of the question: if your PA is cut off by someone getting caught and ending the inning, do you start again on the next inning or the next in the order? Because an out was recorded, but it wasn't your out.

This is the kind of event I've seen dozens of times, but I've never bothered to keep track of the order.

If you don't finish your PA, you lead off your teams half of the next inning.

Paul Zuvella
Dec 7, 2011


TequilaJesus posted:

Player X comes up to bat. There are already 2 outs, and Player Y is on first. Before a single pitch is thrown, the pitcher throws to first and gets Player Y out because he was leading off too far. The inning ends.

Does this count against Player X's batting average?

No, he leads off the next inning.

Grem
Mar 29, 2004

FUCK FEMINISM I BELIEVE IN HUMAN RIGHTS...FOR ALL!


K here's a more complicated one. Batter gets intentionally walked, runner on first advances to second, rounds second, and takes off for third, trying to catch defense by surprise. Throw to third and he's tagged out, all before the batter reaches first. Does the batter start off the next inning?

I'd assume not but since he didn't reach first maybe the play didn't resolve?

Capt. Sticl
Jul 24, 2002

In Zion I was meant to be
'Doze the homes
Block the sea
With this great ship at my command
I'll plunder all the Promised Land!


Grem posted:

K here's a more complicated one. Batter gets intentionally walked, runner on first advances to second, rounds second, and takes off for third, trying to catch defense by surprise. Throw to third and he's tagged out, all before the batter reaches first. Does the batter start off the next inning?

I'd assume not but since he didn't reach first maybe the play didn't resolve?


MLB Official Rules posted:


Rule 5.05(b)(1) Comment (Rule 6.08(a) Comment):

A batter must go to first base and touch the base before
other base runners are forced to advance.


Since the runners are not technically allowed to advance until after the batter reaches first, in this scenario I expect it would be treated as though the batter completed his walk.

I actually expected the new manager called intentional walk would be a dead ball play since he needs the attention of the umpire, but it doesn't appear to be.

Capt. Sticl
Jul 24, 2002

In Zion I was meant to be
'Doze the homes
Block the sea
With this great ship at my command
I'll plunder all the Promised Land!


The N/V thread, plus some beers, has generated a question and a hypothetical.

Q:

Inspector_666 posted:

Also can we change it so that inherited runners count as .5 towards the ERA for both the pitcher who let the man on base and the pitcher who let him score?
"

Instead of going 50-50. could it you build a stat where inherited runners are worth .75/.50/.25 based on their location? Or maybe just a stat that instead of ERA you have like Total Bases allowed per Inning. Not quite WHIP, because it would include something akin to slugging?



H:

Paper Tiger posted:

Batting order should be determined by fielding position. Pitcher bats first, right fielder bats ninth.

How much would this change the attributes you look for in particular positions? First Base is fine since they tend to be good hitters anyway, but how many 2nd baseman can bat second in the lineup?
Edit: I'm guessing that since the difference between optimal lineup and terrible is fairly small over the season it wouldn't change much, but I hope it would.

Grittybeard
Mar 29, 2010


Capt. Sticl posted:

How much would this change the attributes you look for in particular positions? First Base is fine since they tend to be good hitters anyway, but how many 2nd baseman can bat second in the lineup?
Edit: I'm guessing that since the difference between optimal lineup and terrible is fairly small over the season it wouldn't change much, but I hope it would.

I don't think it would functionally change much since the ability to field a position is still the most important thing that goes into a player playing positions like catcher/middle infield/CF. A lot of third basemen were drafted as short stops and just don't have the ability to play SS at a major league level.

Anyway the 2nd baseman would be batting cleanup, not second. And yeah there are almost no traditional fourth in the order type hitters who play second, Cano's the only active one I can come up with off the top of my head right now although I'm probably forgetting someone. Oh Daniel Murphy I guess might fit, and Altuve obviously wouldn't embarrass you but isn't your typical power hitter in the fourth hole.

I can't think of a single catcher who hits like most managers want a second in the lineup guy to hit.

Antifreeze Head
Jun 6, 2005

It begins

Pillbug

Just to chime in on the MLB vs MiLB chat, consider some independent leagues or college ball. I went to see a game in Rochester, MN last year and got into the park with an all you can eat AND ALL YOU CAN DRINK BEER ticket for $30. The skill gaps mean you are likely to witness some strange stuff too, I saw three outfield assists at home plate before the seventh inning. Some stuff probably happened beyond the seventh inning in that game too, but I sure can't tell you what it was.

canadianclassic
Nov 3, 2004



Grittybeard posted:

Anyway the 2nd baseman would be batting cleanup, not second. And yeah there are almost no traditional fourth in the order type hitters who play second, Cano's the only active one I can come up with off the top of my head right now although I'm probably forgetting someone. Oh Daniel Murphy I guess might fit, and Altuve obviously wouldn't embarrass you but isn't your typical power hitter in the fourth hole.

Starlin Castro has been hitting 4th for the yankees and hasn't been terrible, although judge is a more stereotypical cleanup guy

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair


canadianclassic posted:

Starlin Castro has been hitting 4th for the yankees and hasn't been terrible, although judge is a more stereotypical cleanup guy

Also Sanchez is batting second.

Grittybeard
Mar 29, 2010


Haha, of course there would be a team doing exactly that with catcher/2b right now and I didn't know about it. I assume they aren't batting the pitcher first at least.

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair


Grittybeard posted:

Haha, of course there would be a team doing exactly that with catcher/2b right now and I didn't know about it. I assume they aren't batting the pitcher first at least.

The 2017 Yankees: Outlandish Mavericks!

It's a weird time to be alive.

Elizabeth Mills
Jan 2, 2005

Weyland's Top Executive

Corporate Feed


Were the 116 win Mariners that good? Do their individual player evaluations bear that out?

Same question, but in reverse for that Tigers team that saw Steve Sparks set the modern era Losses record

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Tell him about the Twinkie.

Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:

Were the 116 win Mariners that good? Do their individual player evaluations bear that out?

Of guys to play at least 40 games, eight of them had an OPS+ of 109 or above, including 153 from Bret Boone out of nowhere.

They also had monster seasons from Freddy Garcia, Joel Pineiro, Arthur Rhodes and Kaz Sasaki.

Yeah, they were good.

Edit: That Tigers team went through 30 pitchers. Yeah, they sucked.

Timby fucked around with this message at May 29, 2017 around 23:18

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009


What would you say to convince a person who has read a book or two about the game in the 1800's, played the occasional video game, played the actual game very poorly as a kid, and watched the whole 20 something hours that was Ken Burns' Baseball, that Baseball is worth watching? Because I clearly like the concept, but taking the time to actually watch games is something I just can't seem to do.

I'm from Wisconsin though I don't live there now so Iv'e got the Brewers, who seem to be notable for having had a good player a few years back who was traded to greener pastures, and the Braves, who were based out of Milwaukee sometime in the past.

I suppose we have Bob Uecker going for us.

remusclaw fucked around with this message at Jun 2, 2017 around 23:29

R.D. Mangles
Jan 10, 2004


remusclaw posted:

What would you say to convince a person who has read a book or two about the game in the 1800's, played the occasional video game, played the actual game very poorly as a kid, and watched the whole 20 something hours that was Ken Burns' Baseball, that Baseball is worth watching? Because I clearly like the concept, but taking the time to actually watch games is something I just can't seem to do.

I'm from Wisconsin though I don't live there now so Iv'e got the Brewers, who seem to be notable for having had a good player a few years back who was traded to greener pastures, and the Braves, who were based out of Milwaukee sometime in the past.

I suppose we have Bob Uecker going for us.

The Brewers are in first place and have one of the coolest players in baseball right now, Eric Thames, who sucked, went to Korea, became the Barry Bonds of Korea and so good at hitting that his nickname was literally "God," came to the Brewers this year and is absolutely knocking the poo poo out of the ball.

remusclaw
Dec 8, 2009


Well poo poo. Shows what I know. Was born in Green Bay so I was kind of in a Football family. Next thing someone will tell the Buck's are good now.

Last time I really checked up on the sport or the team was when Prince Fielder left, both because of his name, his apparent talent, and the fact that baseball is a sport that can still have athletes with that kind of body shape.

remusclaw fucked around with this message at Jun 2, 2017 around 23:47

R.D. Mangles
Jan 10, 2004


remusclaw posted:

Well poo poo. Shows what I know. Was born in Green Bay so I was kind of in a Football family. Next thing someone will tell the Buck's are good now.

It's a great time to watch some Brewers baseball! They've got a bunch of interesting prospects coming up and they've got a relief pitcher who hauls rear end from the dugout to the mound and one day he will eat it and it will be glorious.

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Kanye West - Touch the Sky


Always remember that baseball is not supposed to be exciting. Baseball is boring. It exists so you can put something on the TV, relax, and drink beer, or crack open a book between innings. Baseball just is.

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008



If you're watching it on TV you're making a mistake. Going to a live game you can let your mind wander and watch the guys in the on deck circle and other stuff so it's not just a static picture of a pitcher dicking around for 20 minutes each pitch. You don't even need a major league team, if you live in the US I'm sure there's a minor league team farting around.

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

VIVA PUIG


Just make background baseball part of your daily routine. Put the game on the tv/radio in the background while you're home doing whatever else you'd be doing.

You'll start to absorb it via osmosis and get hooked naturally.

Chexoid
Nov 5, 2009

Now that I have this dating robot I can take it easy.


Is Randy Johnson exploding that bird with a pitch in 2001 the most unlikely thing that's ever happened in sports? If it's not number one it's gotta be up there right? I mean, a major league pitch is in the air for on average, what, a tenth of a second? Probably less with Randy Johnson. The idea that an unthinking animal could randomly intersect with the ball at that exact moment is mind boggling to me. I can't even remember another time where a bird has even flown close to that area in baseball, let alone right at that exact height. You could play baseball for a million years and never see that happen again.

Ammat The Ankh
Sep 7, 2010

If it's one thing I can't stand, it's people bunting.


Chexoid posted:

Is Randy Johnson exploding that bird with a pitch in 2001 the most unlikely thing that's ever happened in sports? If it's not number one it's gotta be up there right? I mean, a major league pitch is in the air for on average, what, a tenth of a second? Probably less with Randy Johnson. The idea that an unthinking animal could randomly intersect with the ball at that exact moment is mind boggling to me. I can't even remember another time where a bird has even flown close to that area in baseball, let alone right at that exact height. You could play baseball for a million years and never see that happen again.

No the most unlikely thing to happen in sports is Atlanta winning a championship.

Elizabeth Mills
Jan 2, 2005

Weyland's Top Executive

Corporate Feed


Chexoid posted:

Is Randy Johnson exploding that bird with a pitch in 2001 the most unlikely thing that's ever happened in sports? If it's not number one it's gotta be up there right? I mean, a major league pitch is in the air for on average, what, a tenth of a second? Probably less with Randy Johnson. The idea that an unthinking animal could randomly intersect with the ball at that exact moment is mind boggling to me. I can't even remember another time where a bird has even flown close to that area in baseball, let alone right at that exact height. You could play baseball for a million years and never see that happen again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsVy6c8QGAw

Infidel Castro
Jun 8, 2010

HELLO MY BABY
HELLO MY HONEY
HELLO MY PERNELL-KARL
♪ ♩ ♪ ♩ ♩





remusclaw posted:

What would you say to convince a person who has read a book or two about the game in the 1800's, played the occasional video game, played the actual game very poorly as a kid, and watched the whole 20 something hours that was Ken Burns' Baseball, that Baseball is worth watching? Because I clearly like the concept, but taking the time to actually watch games is something I just can't seem to do.

I'm from Wisconsin though I don't live there now so Iv'e got the Brewers, who seem to be notable for having had a good player a few years back who was traded to greener pastures, and the Braves, who were based out of Milwaukee sometime in the past.

I suppose we have Bob Uecker going for us.

Bob is great for the casual baseball fan because he weaves in an out between calling the action on the game and just telling fun/goofy stories. In fact, since you live outside Wisconsin you could get MLB.tv and watch them that way. The best part is you can overlay radio broadcasts on the video. Goons set up account sharing groups every year, so you could hop in on one for less than $30 (although I don't know if many groups are forming at this point).

I'd say the #1 key to getting actively interested in watching is to understand the strategy of an at-bat. It sounds complicated, but it doesn't have to be. Color analysts on TV broadcasts are there mainly to explain stuff like this, so they're a good place to start. Bill Schroeder (a former Brewers catcher) is the color guy on Brewers TV and is pretty good.

remusclaw posted:

Well poo poo. Shows what I know. Was born in Green Bay so I was kind of in a Football family. Next thing someone will tell the Buck's are good now.

The Bucks are good now. Seriously. Look up Giannis Antetokounmpo.

Antifreeze Head
Jun 6, 2005

It begins

Pillbug

Chexoid posted:

Is Randy Johnson exploding that bird with a pitch in 2001 the most unlikely thing that's ever happened in sports? If it's not number one it's gotta be up there right? I mean, a major league pitch is in the air for on average, what, a tenth of a second? Probably less with Randy Johnson. The idea that an unthinking animal could randomly intersect with the ball at that exact moment is mind boggling to me. I can't even remember another time where a bird has even flown close to that area in baseball, let alone right at that exact height. You could play baseball for a million years and never see that happen again.

Cricketers have killed at least three birds in high level matches, so it's perhaps less rare than you might think. Absolutely still an almost infinitesimally small chance of seeing it happen.

There was the home run ball that hit not just one outfielder, but two in a MiLB game earlier this year. That's probably rarer. Disco Demolition Night is something that will only ever happen once... but that is something you might be able to say about quite a number of Bill Veeck's best promotions.

Grem
Mar 29, 2004

FUCK FEMINISM I BELIEVE IN HUMAN RIGHTS...FOR ALL!


Today at the Rockies game a hawk killed a bird dead and it landed in the outfield. Thought of this thread.

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008



Ammat The Ankh posted:

No the most unlikely thing to happen in sports is Atlanta winning a championship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etf9rcbhfTM
?

Also is it remotely possible to have a more racist nickname matchup in a championship in the modern day? Maybe if the NFL adds another team with a slur?

Grittybeard
Mar 29, 2010


Peanut President posted:

Also is it remotely possible to have a more racist nickname matchup in a championship in the modern day? Maybe if the NFL adds another team with a slur?

Chiefs/Redskins seems worse because Chiefs are probably on the same level as Braves and Redskins is obviously worse than Indians?

Well, for a certain level of imagination. It might not pass the remotely possible clause.

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010


Grittybeard posted:

Chiefs/Redskins seems worse because Chiefs are probably on the same level as Braves and Redskins is obviously worse than Indians?

Well, for a certain level of imagination. It might not pass the remotely possible clause.

I feel like it's a tossup for re: Indians vs Redskins because the American Indian movement is absolutely a thing, so Redskin's contextually a worse word....on the other hand, gently caress me runnin' is Cleveland's logo ever worse. I know they've technically moved to the C logo, but that sure as poo poo isn't what people think of when they think of the Indians logo.

I wish they'd just officially change the name to the Tribe. Far less offensive since the concept of a tribe isn't exclusive to Native Americans, still invokes the whole "fierce warrior" thing that teams who go the Native American route for a team name are generally going for, and a lot of broadcasters, players, writers and fans call them that anyways.

Elizabeth Mills
Jan 2, 2005

Weyland's Top Executive

Corporate Feed


Happy Bobby Bonilla Day everyone!

In honor of this epic day, can anyone talk about why baseball contracts are so weird (not the 'no-salary-cap' thing, that's awesome)?

Like, players getting straight-up traded for cash, or a bag of baseballs? And why players can't (or aren't?) be traded for draft picks?

Abel Wingnut
Dec 23, 2002




so what happens here? they just drop a ball near where the ball originally stopped?

Infidel Castro
Jun 8, 2010

HELLO MY BABY
HELLO MY HONEY
HELLO MY PERNELL-KARL
♪ ♩ ♪ ♩ ♩





Abel Wingnut posted:

so what happens here? they just drop a ball near where the ball originally stopped?

You can place the ball at its original lie without penalty.

Elizabeth Mills
Jan 2, 2005

Weyland's Top Executive

Corporate Feed


OK so this is more a newbie discussion topic than a question, but: What stats are the best to look at to get a holistic view of a player, specificially, which stats do you think have the most predictive (signal how the player will perform in the future) value?

Is it OBP? Homers? fielding-independent ERA? what one thing could you point at on a player's baseball card and go "based on the last three years of <<this>>, player X will do great next year, barring injury or acute steve blass disease?

humpthewind
Jan 8, 2007

"I'm not going to let this continue much longer. I can't afford to be patient. I'll get involved, and you know what happens when I get involved."


Fun Shoe

Batting average with risp in the 7th inning or later when behind in the count and the team is trailing.


Clutch.

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Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008



Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:

OK so this is more a newbie discussion topic than a question, but: What stats are the best to look at to get a holistic view of a player, specificially, which stats do you think have the most predictive (signal how the player will perform in the future) value?

Is it OBP? Homers? fielding-independent ERA? what one thing could you point at on a player's baseball card and go "based on the last three years of <<this>>, player X will do great next year, barring injury or acute steve blass disease?

Wins and BA obviously.

Honest answer is there isn't a good one. Like there have been so many players that have gone to garbage in short order or have become really good when simple things like "they ate 2 biscuits for breakfast instead of 1" or whatever that stats are never predictive.

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