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The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT CORTANA WILL BE A CIRCLE AND NOT THE ACTUAL SEXY WOMAN FROM THE GAME.


800peepee51doodoo posted:

I mean, I understand how the perk works. Its more of a question of why you would be using archers in a Chosen/Orc fight in the first place. Again, maybe a throwing spec for the big damage increase at short range but I find it hard to see how bows help against Orc Warriors and the like. Not opposed to being shown different though!


You're not (unless there is a mixed group with lots of orc young or beserkers). The use case is noble company soldiers, merc groups, nomads, southern armies and most beasts. It makes an impact.

Against chosen/orc warriors you use your javelins instead (and I'm increasingly of the opinion that I'd rather have javelins over archers in most fights that don't include goblins). And yes, you take CS and executioner on your javeliners. Javelins are brutally effective and with CS your chances of injuring a chosen on the first hit are 65%-100% depending on the armour loadout (cf 11%-51% without).

Archers can still be useful in those fights - take out drummers and beastmasters, or even finish off enemies with destroyed armour, but I only take them in addition to javelins - I have 2 of each in my company. I always take 2 polearms, I usually take 2 gunners, then either the archers or the javelins and the final spot is either a third polearm, or one of whichever of archers or javelins I didn't take 2 of.

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Ixtlilton
Mar 10, 2012

How to Draw
by Rube Goldberg



my minimum hp has become 69 because it's a very nice number.

TheBeardyCleaver
Jan 9, 2019


Tin Tim posted:

One important thing for the recover discussion is also what difficulty you play on I think. If you just play for casual fun then it's likely that you don't really need it because the game rarely throws large enough groups to fight at you(outside of zombo hordes). But if you're playing on higher difficulty settings then I have a hard time seeing how you get through 20+ gobbos/orcs/ancient undead regularly without popping at least a few recovers after ten turns of constant combat
After 10 turns you've broken through and killing individual targets, making taking 2-3 shots every turn unlikely/inefficient, or you're in some deep poo poo. This according to my playstyle at least. If you manage to slow down a fight and take less damage that way, it may be a thing.

Tin Tim posted:

Pathfinder is a waste outside of that stam neutral 2h build, don't pick it. The effect is miniscule and almost never ever makes a difference. You're picking a perk that does nothing in nine out of ten fights only to have it do a tiny bit in that tenth fight. It's a waste. Footwork also falls into the same category but I understand why some people pick it. However once you understand how to play the game its value plummets hard for archers/hybrids. With indom on your front the enemies will never push into your backline. And with tanks on the sides you can tie up like five enemies with each of them to stop them from flanking. The rest comes down to smart positioning and anticipating how the next round will go. It's a crutch perk for new players imo and should be ignored once you got a handle on the combat. The only build I run it on is my banner because I build him to be a bit tanky for emergencies so that he can rotate in, take a mean hit and step away next round.
It means walking takes less stamina, thus a boost, and it also takes less AP, meaning more movement/more attacks, also a boost. Getting into the right position and being able to attack is everything IMO.

Tin Tim posted:

I'm generally not a fan of the executioner/CS combo but saying that somebody doesn't need gifted really rubs me the wrong way. Bigger numbers are everything in this game

With a projected above 100 MAtk and health where i wanted it, it would have boosted resolve and and MDef(can't really have too much MDef), but I left it out. May be underestimating it, but the guys I didn't take it on are godly hedgeknights and sellswords, and do more than fine. That's when i think perks that do more damage may come in.

The Lord Bude posted:

Back line needs resolve if you are using fearsome. With gunners and warscythes you can mass apply fearsome and it does huge amounts of work. I put it on everyone that carries a gun, a polearm or a 1h weapon. I can have those large 20+ groups of orcs all fleeing by round 3. I took out a party of over 40 orcs when I attacked a camp at the same time a roving band of orcs was just close enough to be dragged into the combat. Fearsome is insane now. Outside of that I think you should still maintain a minimum standard so you don't have your archers breaking; it's not like you need other stats - ranged defence is the big waste that people invest in, it's pretty pointless - once you have around 15 or so enemy archers will mostly just target something else, and between nimble, bone plating, and the fact that enemy archers have poo poo accuracy it really doesn't matter if your archers eat an arrow every now and then. Almost 1k hours put into this game, and even now playing on expert I've never bothered to give anyone more than mid teens ranged def and it's never, ever been an issue.
This.

The Lord Bude posted:

Sometimes you take a couple of max rolls in initiative on builds with overwhelm. Overwhelm has been a big sleeper for me, I take it on polearms and gunners and nimble duelists; and it makes a huge difference. Applying a stack of overwhelm is like giving your entire front line a few extra levelups of mdef.
Also this.

The Lord Bude posted:

I think footwork is pretty important on the back line, you can't always rely on rotate. On the front line I actually use it offensively, to get my 2handers into optimal AoE position; but I skip it on duelists since they don't need to reposition to aoe.
I experimented with agressive footwork and found it a bit cirumstantial. If it was only one guy blocking it's often a 5% hitchance and I'd try dodging the hit moving forwards, while if it was more I'd usually be able to use split. Hammerers might have more benefit, and if you like to round swing some epic axe it may be the THING

The Lord Bude posted:

I wouldn't be comfortable with 60 hp on anyone. armour pen is more common now, and I don't believe in my back line being total glass cannons when it's easy to get them to 75-80. My front line is generally at 100 with colossus, although on nimble front liners since they take less damage I've settled on 80 as enough. Higher health pools mean less chance of getting an injury.
I've gone lower on my BF lads, and they do take injuries on occasion. You may be on to something here. I suppose this is where I start taking gifted...

The Lord Bude posted:

on CS - with CS an archer with a warbow has a very good chance of inflicting an injury with one shot (typical targets orc young/beserker noble war soldiers, nomads etc - against orc warriors/chosen I wouldn't bring archers); then following up with a damage boost on the second hit. Also want to emphasise that CS and executioner don't need to be a combo and for eg I skip CS on polearms but still take executioner.
Single shot injury does sound nice. If it lets javs do it on chosen, that may be a big thing.

The Lord Bude posted:

As for recover and pathfinder I take one or the other on different builds and I'm still very much experimenting - I think the in depth perk guide has a very good analysis on both. I do maintain that people tend to over estimate the usefulness of recover and underestimate pathfinder - pathfinder reduces your overall fatigue build up quite a bit on anything other than vanilla terrain; and I've found I very rarely use recover even on long fights because by the time you need it you're either just mopping up leftovers, or you no longer have tight clusters of enemies to AoE so you use the single attack - which usually does more damage. I used to take recover religiously on everyone and I never used to take pathfinder but the past couple of games I've been analysing how much use I actually get out of it and I don't think it stacks up outside of sunken library/black monolith - and the monolith was an absolute cakewalk on my last run; It was over in 12 rounds and I didn't lose a single guy.
I often fight in uneven terrain when I can, and that makes pathfinder even more attractive. Especially when the enemy does not have it, they trickle in more than swarm and you can queue them up for slaughter.

Moonshine Rhyme
Mar 26, 2010

Hate Hate Hate Hate Hate

The real trap perk that has given me brainworms is Dodge. This current run I may have finally broken the poison, I have a nimble/dodge front liner with only 20 mdef before Dodge. He eats poo poo three to four turns before anyone else typically. I am using legends and he has about 170 initiative (legend perk that buffs initiative by 20%), and it still isn't enough for Dodge to protect him.

Might work a little better if he wasn't using a two-hand scimitar and dropping two attacks a turn draining his fatigue.

Broken Cog
Dec 28, 2009

We're all friends here


Pathfinder has always been good, but it's doubly so now since 1/4 of the map is desert or snow, which eats your fatigue like nothing, and with the addition of the new fortification mechanics.

rideANDxORdie
Jun 10, 2010


I stopped using pathfinder after about 100 hours in the game, I've racked up more than 700 more since on a combination of veteran and expert and haven't missed it once. The only fight I need it for is the kraken and that fight just isn't fun for me - I don't plan on doing it ever again. Maybe for ironman but for now when I load up a fight and it's me on flat ground versus 8 bandit marksmen on 4-tile height ground I just re-roll. Getting zoinked in the skull on Turn 1 by a high-initiative sniper isn't fun or a cute quirk of the game like the devs may think it is - it loving sucks and shouldn't be as common as it is IMO.

My opinion is pathfinder is really only opening up options you didn't have before in swamps (shouldn't be fighting here unless you absolutely can't avoid it anyways) or in places that have both bad terrain AND a height gain to deal with. Otherwise, the ap/fatigue gains are marginal

800peepee51doodoo
Feb 28, 2001

Volute the swarth, trawl betwixt phonotic
Scoff the festune


Moonshine Rhyme posted:

The real trap perk that has given me brainworms is Dodge. This current run I may have finally broken the poison, I have a nimble/dodge front liner with only 20 mdef before Dodge. He eats poo poo three to four turns before anyone else typically. I am using legends and he has about 170 initiative (legend perk that buffs initiative by 20%), and it still isn't enough for Dodge to protect him.

Might work a little better if he wasn't using a two-hand scimitar and dropping two attacks a turn draining his fatigue.

Dodge used to be completely worthless but I've been seeing some good results with Nimble Dodge stam-neutral 2Hander builds. I haven't explicitly tracked it but it certainly seems like they take significantly fewer hits and they have staying power since they barely accrue fatigue. I currently have a Nimble Dodge tank thats been doing some real work but I can't speak to how well it scales into the late game once you have to start spamming Indom every turn. Relentless has really helped but the whole build eats up a lot of perks so its a trade off.

One thing I will say that one thing that's super cool about this game is that the devs have gone out of their way to break up meta-gaming trends and make people look at different build types. I was pretty stoked to see them nerf the quick hands shield meta way back and then again with the Adrenaline/Recover meta in this DLC. I like it when games have the flexibility to let people try out different poo poo without feeling like they're playing sub-optimally.

Donkringel
Apr 22, 2008


What are thoughts on a Master Assassin? I'm thinking of making him into a fencer with dodge/nimble build.
Background : Assassin
HP - 55
Fat - 95
Res - 50 ***
INI - 130
ATT - 67 **
RA - 42
MDef - 13***
RDef - 5***

Master Perk which allows him to roll +1 on random rolls, +5 INI and makes him cost a poo poo ton more.

This is a modded character BTW, neat little master mod where 1% of recruits have insane stats like this one.

TheBeardyCleaver
Jan 9, 2019


800peepee51doodoo posted:

Dodge used to be completely worthless but I've been seeing some good results with Nimble Dodge stam-neutral 2Hander builds. I haven't explicitly tracked it but it certainly seems like they take significantly fewer hits and they have staying power since they barely accrue fatigue. I currently have a Nimble Dodge tank thats been doing some real work but I can't speak to how well it scales into the late game once you have to start spamming Indom every turn. Relentless has really helped but the whole build eats up a lot of perks so its a trade off.

One thing I will say that one thing that's super cool about this game is that the devs have gone out of their way to break up meta-gaming trends and make people look at different build types. I was pretty stoked to see them nerf the quick hands shield meta way back and then again with the Adrenaline/Recover meta in this DLC. I like it when games have the flexibility to let people try out different poo poo without feeling like they're playing sub-optimally.
Interesting these stam neutral builds. Dodge on someone like that may be where it's at outside of fencers.

Donkringel posted:

What are thoughts on a Master Assassin? I'm thinking of making him into a fencer with dodge/nimble build.
Background : Assassin
HP - 55
Fat - 95
Res - 50 ***
INI - 130
ATT - 67 **
RA - 42
MDef - 13***
RDef - 5***

Master Perk which allows him to roll +1 on random rolls, +5 INI and makes him cost a poo poo ton more.

This is a modded character BTW, neat little master mod where 1% of recruits have insane stats like this one.

That should make one nasty fencer. Mine is only at 127 after armour and really mopping up the chaff. If you can get him above 160, post some damage roll screenshots

Palcontent
Mar 23, 2010



Dodge is great but because a point of mdef is more valuable the more of it you already have, it's best on bros with high base defenses. I still use it to patch poor mdef cause what else are you gonna do, but it isn't ideal. A frontliner with <30 at 11 probably isn't long for this world, dodge or no dodge.

Recover is something that's useless in 80% of fights, but that other 20% includes all the most difficult encounters. It's obviously not necessary on every build (like stam neutral 2h), but I would never skip it on anyone that's gonna use adrenaline, indom, aoe-beserk, or secondary attack spam. I always put it on archers but nearly all my archers also throw, and are typically firing three times per turn.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT CORTANA WILL BE A CIRCLE AND NOT THE ACTUAL SEXY WOMAN FROM THE GAME.


I put dodge on nimble front liners; but thatís about it.

Donkringel
Apr 22, 2008


Question is a named great sword with -3 fat to use skills and 21% extra chance to hit head worth 15k? All other stats (besides negligible durability increase) are the same, so it almost doesn't feel worth it.

However that hit to head and -3 fat might be really good, but it's a convoluted mathematical model I'm not getting?

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream



The fatigue thing is nice but I wouldn't drop 15k on it unless I was absolutely rolling in cash and if I was that late game I'd probably have a better 2h sword by then anyway

800peepee51doodoo
Feb 28, 2001

Volute the swarth, trawl betwixt phonotic
Scoff the festune


The extra head-hit chance could actually make it less powerful since you'd be dividing up damage more evenly between body armor and helmet. I'd probably skip it. If it were a polearm or a bow, though?....maybe

Donkringel
Apr 22, 2008


Thanks for the thoughts on this. Yea I only have 50k at the moment so while it doesn't break the bank it is an opportunity cost for a different unique.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT CORTANA WILL BE A CIRCLE AND NOT THE ACTUAL SEXY WOMAN FROM THE GAME.


Personally I think that unless you can get a greatsword with a decent chunk of extra damage or armour pen; youíre better off with a bardiche.

Donkringel
Apr 22, 2008


The Lord Bude posted:

Personally I think that unless you can get a greatsword with a decent chunk of extra damage or armour pen; you’re better off with a bardiche.

I tried a bardiche for awhile, but I missed that three tile swing too much.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT CORTANA WILL BE A CIRCLE AND NOT THE ACTUAL SEXY WOMAN FROM THE GAME.


Donkringel posted:

I tried a bardiche for awhile, but I missed that three tile swing too much.

Thatís what hammers are for. Although Iíve decided to start a gladiator run and Iím planning to turn my viper into a front line nimble warscythe wielder- I think it will be quite entertaining.

TheBeardyCleaver
Jan 9, 2019


The Lord Bude posted:

That’s what hammers are for. Although I’ve decided to start a gladiator run and I’m planning to turn my viper into a front line nimble warscythe wielder- I think it will be quite entertaining.


How does the math go there again? You end up getting one extra 3 tile swipe if you get enough kills? Best get an iron lung one

I looked through a few seeds and the Viper usually ended up challenged in the stamina and resolve department. Fully functional, but 140/60 looked hard to achieve if you wanted 95+ MAtk 40+ MDef.

TheBeardyCleaver fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Oct 8, 2020

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT CORTANA WILL BE A CIRCLE AND NOT THE ACTUAL SEXY WOMAN FROM THE GAME.


TheBeardyCleaver posted:

How does the math go there again? You end up getting one extra 3 tile swipe if you get enough kills? Best get an iron lung one

I think you might actually be able to get a total of 4 in one round including the bonus AP from berserk. A third one is easy - you only have to kill 2 targets in the first 2 swipes. But if you can kill 7 in the first 3 - so 7 kills out of 9 possible targets - then you can get a 4th. Youíd probably need to set it up with other bros though.

The low starting health concerns me though. Iíve found a viper with huge/strong but I think I might want to try and find one with tough. I really like the idea of a huge viper though doing extra damage across all those attacks.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT CORTANA WILL BE A CIRCLE AND NOT THE ACTUAL SEXY WOMAN FROM THE GAME.


I can live with the resolve - between the plus 10 from arena and the existence of the trinkets I think I can get it where I need it.

Iím also not fussed about hitting 40 mdef - with reach advantage youíre going to have +25 most turns because youíre attacking so often. And there is going to be a hell of a lot of overwhelm being dished out. What Iím not sure about is if dodge is worth it - I normally take it on nimble duelists but with this guy heís going to be taking on a huge amount of fatigue really quickly. He might be better off with colossus.

edit: in my best gladiator seed find so far, upkKHGTAHw - Lion has iron lungs and paranoid, bear has swift and paranoid, viper has huge and iron lungs. map is nothing special.

edit 2: another seed AtjBaypaXG map is pretty good on this one, I think 2 of the city states are ports. Lion is tough and irrational, bear has no traits, viper is huge and iron lungs. compared to the first seed the viper has lower attack and stamina but higher health and mdef.

The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Oct 8, 2020

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


I'm starting to really enjoy the cult now that I'm rolling (finished the Noble War) and have my first actual Chosen. It amuses me a bit that my amazing 3 star melee 2 star MDef 57 starting melee 5 starting Mdef+5 from Sure Footed cultist greatswordsman hasn't gotten a single blessing over the sacrifices, though. Mind he's still great! But Gerhard has not impressed Davkul.

Also Davkul does NOT want me to have archers. He keeps asking for them.

TheBeardyCleaver
Jan 9, 2019


The Lord Bude posted:

I can live with the resolve - between the plus 10 from arena and the existence of the trinkets I think I can get it where I need it.

Iím also not fussed about hitting 40 mdef - with reach advantage youíre going to have +25 most turns because youíre attacking so often. And there is going to be a hell of a lot of overwhelm being dished out. What Iím not sure about is if dodge is worth it - I normally take it on nimble duelists but with this guy heís going to be taking on a huge amount of fatigue really quickly. He might be better off with colossus.

edit: in my best gladiator seed find so far, upkKHGTAHw - Lion has iron lungs and paranoid, bear has swift and paranoid, viper has huge and iron lungs. map is nothing special.

edit 2: another seed AtjBaypaXG map is pretty good on this one, I think 2 of the city states are ports. Lion is tough and irrational, bear has no traits, viper is huge and iron lungs. compared to the first seed the viper has lower attack and stamina but higher health and mdef.

I'll admit i took the gladiators from a good seed and shamelessly edited them into Legolas. My Viper is quick and strong, Bear is brave and tough, Lion has iron lungs and sure footing. Somewhat bad base rolls IIRC, but there are limits to how far I'm willing to cheat. This I can at least explain away with some magical teleportation device


Night10194 posted:

I'm starting to really enjoy the cult now that I'm rolling (finished the Noble War) and have my first actual Chosen. It amuses me a bit that my amazing 3 star melee 2 star MDef 57 starting melee 5 starting Mdef+5 from Sure Footed cultist greatswordsman hasn't gotten a single blessing over the sacrifices, though. Mind he's still great! But Gerhard has not impressed Davkul.

Also Davkul does NOT want me to have archers. He keeps asking for them.

Old Davkul probably does not have any hunter cabins in his seed

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


A friend of mine pointed out that if he's meant to be the cosmic force of entropy, disaster, and death, Davkul is obviously the RNG.

Which is impossible, that's Nuffle.

Moonshine Rhyme
Mar 26, 2010

Hate Hate Hate Hate Hate

I think the best 2h named sword I have ever found in my current run

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun


The Lord Bude posted:

Back line needs resolve if you are using fearsome. With gunners and warscythes you can mass apply fearsome and it does huge amounts of work. I put it on everyone that carries a gun, a polearm or a 1h weapon. I can have those large 20+ groups of orcs all fleeing by round 3. I took out a party of over 40 orcs when I attacked a camp at the same time a roving band of orcs was just close enough to be dragged into the combat. Fearsome is insane now. Outside of that I think you should still maintain a minimum standard so you don't have your archers breaking
Tbf I don't have the new dlc yet so I guess that's why I was so bewildered by you putting resolve on your backline. Sounds like a fun strat though! Never had my archers break though outside of geists and then my banner always gets them back into shape

The Lord Bude posted:

ranged defence is the big waste that people invest in, it's pretty pointless - once you have around 15 or so enemy archers will mostly just target something else, and between nimble, bone plating, and the fact that enemy archers have poo poo accuracy it really doesn't matter if your archers eat an arrow every now and then. Almost 1k hours put into this game, and even now playing on expert I've never bothered to give anyone more than mid teens ranged def and it's never, ever been an issue.
This is something I feel I'm coming around to. I built my current archers with Rdef but found myself asking if it's really needed once you go above 20. My current logic is that ranged attacks are pretty much all that can injure my backline so I'm buffing against that. I'm done with the second crisis and I never had my backline take any serious melee attacks in the whole run so far. Not a single time. Because indom on the front and good play I guess. They get a fair amount of arrows or throwing weapons directed at them though once my front is enganged so that is the one real threat I feel. But yeah I started to doubt if I really need Rdef above 20 and will try to dip a few more rolls into health on my next campaign to see how it feels

TheBeardyCleaver posted:

After 10 turns you've broken through and killing individual targets, making taking 2-3 shots every turn unlikely/inefficient, or you're in some deep poo poo. This according to my playstyle at least. If you manage to slow down a fight and take less damage that way, it may be a thing.
My comment was more directed towards your front. Especially 2h users stam out quickly if you have to open with indom against an orc charge and then use your aoe skills once or twice or use all the extra attacks with berserk. Those fights are a pure dps race so I find myself needing to recover halfway through pretty regularly. Tanks are sorta in the same boat when they also have to throw up taunts along with indom

TheBeardyCleaver posted:

It means walking takes less stamina, thus a boost, and it also takes less AP, meaning more movement/more attacks, also a boost. Getting into the right position and being able to attack is everything IMO.
This is true but still not enough to warrant a perk point. The stamina reduction is really minor and the extra movement looks good on paper but in reality it's not that helpful. The average fight doesn't actually involve a lot of movement before the lines clash. And after that you only make real moves again when the majority of enemies are already dead. It's just not enough benefit for the cost of a perk to me and probably never will be. 2h users are the only exception because they do benefit from being able to move twice and strike. But I don't have any perk I could cut from them and already achieve the same by having a tank step forward and rotate them ahead


The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT CORTANA WILL BE A CIRCLE AND NOT THE ACTUAL SEXY WOMAN FROM THE GAME.


Tin Tim posted:

Tbf I don't have the new dlc yet so I guess that's why I was so bewildered by you putting resolve on your backline. Sounds like a fun strat though! Never had my archers break though outside of geists and then my banner always gets them back into shape

This is something I feel I'm coming around to. I built my current archers with Rdef but found myself asking if it's really needed once you go above 20. My current logic is that ranged attacks are pretty much all that can injure my backline so I'm buffing against that. I'm done with the second crisis and I never had my backline take any serious melee attacks in the whole run so far. Not a single time. Because indom on the front and good play I guess. They get a fair amount of arrows or throwing weapons directed at them though once my front is enganged so that is the one real threat I feel. But yeah I started to doubt if I really need Rdef above 20 and will try to dip a few more rolls into health on my next campaign to see how it feels

My comment was more directed towards your front. Especially 2h users stam out quickly if you have to open with indom against an orc charge and then use your aoe skills once or twice or use all the extra attacks with berserk. Those fights are a pure dps race so I find myself needing to recover halfway through pretty regularly. Tanks are sorta in the same boat when they also have to throw up taunts along with indom

This is true but still not enough to warrant a perk point. The stamina reduction is really minor and the extra movement looks good on paper but in reality it's not that helpful. The average fight doesn't actually involve a lot of movement before the lines clash. And after that you only make real moves again when the majority of enemies are already dead. It's just not enough benefit for the cost of a perk to me and probably never will be. 2h users are the only exception because they do benefit from being able to move twice and strike. But I don't have any perk I could cut from them and already achieve the same by having a tank step forward and rotate them ahead




Just to be clear pathfinder never reduces the AP cost of movement below the base amount for vanilla terrain so 2h non polearms will never be able to move twice and attack unless you do the Ďmove tank forward and rotateí trick.

I think both pathfinder and recover have their merits depending on bro build.

Itís worth noting that with nimble and a good health pool even heavy crossbows donít do a whole lot of damage to you. Arrows do gently caress all. Archers can shoot at my back line all day; they wonít give a gently caress.

I should clarify; for non fearsome using back liners anything over around 40 is fine resolve wise.

Also; you donít give 2handers indom; particularly now that they canít attack and indom on the same turn. When fighting orcs you have a front line of alternating shield bros and damage dealers (2handers or duelists). You have the shield bros take one step forward and use indom - they absorb the initial charge; then the damage bros step forward and unleash.

TheBeardyCleaver
Jan 9, 2019


I don't use indom much. I have one shieldbro that uses it and the orc necklace blocks the stuff you need indom for, and those guys stop majority of orc charges. If one 2h bro gets stunned, ah well. Orcs are not that big of a deal that you need to build for it IMO. Dealing with chosen and goblin bastards are far more important. Sure indom is good for tanking chosen, but a few macebros backed up by lancers and javelins will deal with them far more efficiently. If playing with sub-par bro's I can see it being far better when just occupying space and tanking hits. Never used taunt much, but on a dedicated shield tank I can see it being a thing, and I'd probably take recover there.

Recover is nice, and i do take it, i just don't do it on everyone like i used to. When indom and adrenaline got nerfed i found it being less important. When stam is running low single attacks is usually good enough to finish the battle, and spending a turn getting into position (with pathfinder ) usually has you recovered enough to swing a special attack.

Tin Tim posted:

Tbf I don't have the new dlc yet so I guess that's why I was so bewildered by you putting resolve on your backline.

Don't think you need the DLC for that to take effect. Fearsome anythings are very useful. Find a warscythe and have at it

Editings:
Just finished a plethora of chosen with naught but a crushed finger. Fearsome is where it's at.

TheBeardyCleaver fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Oct 9, 2020

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT CORTANA WILL BE A CIRCLE AND NOT THE ACTUAL SEXY WOMAN FROM THE GAME.


It's day 28. My frontline swordlance viper is level 9 and has 105 kills from 30 battles fought.

TheBeardyCleaver
Jan 9, 2019


The Lord Bude posted:

It's day 28. My frontline swordlance viper is level 9 and has 105 kills from 30 battles fought.

That sounds acceptable.

Donkringel
Apr 22, 2008


Is there still a way to kite the Orc Warlord army to the Black monolith? Trying to do it but I just keep getting the black Monolith fight, even when I let the Orc Warlord charge me.

I really enjoy those 3 way fights, even though it is cheesy.

Toozler
Jan 12, 2012



No, they changed the legendary location fights to ignore any external armies

dogstile
May 1, 2012

fucking clocks
how do they work?


Boooooo, that's half the fun

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT CORTANA WILL BE A CIRCLE AND NOT THE ACTUAL SEXY WOMAN FROM THE GAME.


TheBeardyCleaver posted:

That sounds acceptable.

He didnít have his sword lance for probably the first half of those fights. Now that he has killing frenzy heís taking out like 9+ enemies in one fight.

TheBeardyCleaver
Jan 9, 2019


The Lord Bude posted:

He didnít have his sword lance for probably the first half of those fights. Now that he has killing frenzy heís taking out like 9+ enemies in one fight.

Figured as much. Now I want to do this The Viper background is probably the most powerful in the game, at least in terms of pure damage potential. I'll be doing the end game stuff and then manhunters damnit! Maybe a Gladiator speedrun after that could be a thing

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT CORTANA WILL BE A CIRCLE AND NOT THE ACTUAL SEXY WOMAN FROM THE GAME.


So I found a named fencing sword in my gladiators game. This is kinda annoying because now I feel like it would be a waste not to build a fencer and I've always struggled to find a place for them. But I think the sword is too good not to pass up. 42-60 damage, 102% vs armour instead of 75%. So now I think I'm going to have to give it another shot. maybe I need to give them a second weapon mastery so they can be switched to a mace or something if need be. The weapon damage is high though on the other hand so maybe they'll be fine just slashing.

ccubed posted:

Just for reference, "At 89 Initiative Fencing Sword's Lunge has neutral damage. Damage increases at 90+ value, roughly +1 damage for every 2-3 initiative."

This is from ages ago, but I want to address this, because I've now done some research on the subject, and this entry in the wiki is flat out wrong (the article on damage has the correct formula buried in it). Lunge works using a damage multiplier; it does not give you a flat damage increase based on initiative. At 89 init after gear, the multiplier is 1 (ie normal damage). The maximum multiplier is 2 (double damage) This cap is reached when init after gear is at 175.

As you become fatigued in combat, lunge damage goes down. If your initiative drops below 89; you'll do less damage than you would with slash.

The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Oct 13, 2020

TheBeardyCleaver
Jan 9, 2019


It will be hard getting a second weapon mastery in such a perk hungry build if you don't mod in veteran perks. I have dagger mastery on my fencer viper(started as a dagger viper), and it's very useful, but I find that I use the sword more. The slash damage is great, since he'll usually come in from the sides to add damage to already engaged opponents. I just have a regular fencing blade. The one you found can bash armour well too, and with duelist it should do great. If I had more than 12 in the roster I'd likely build two fencers if i found the guy for it. Not because it's better than anything else, but it's fun tactics wise, and they hold their own.

Southpaugh
May 26, 2007

Smokey Bacon




At this point I approve of modding in whatever you want to make the game fun. Have a turbo-super duelist. He can still get one shot even if its not likely.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

I'M DISAPPOINTED THAT CORTANA WILL BE A CIRCLE AND NOT THE ACTUAL SEXY WOMAN FROM THE GAME.


I'm not modding in extra perks.

I'm still tempted to just sell it, but I might keep it around for a bit and give it a go if I find the perfect bro for it.

Edit: I think fate is telling me to go for it. I found a brawler in the next town. Very close to max rolls where it counts and 3 stars in matk, 2 in mdef and 3 in init.

The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Oct 13, 2020

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Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


The Viper makes an incredible fencer, I built him as one in one game. It's just a question of if that's really the best thing you can do with one of the best possible soldiers in all of BB.

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