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Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


SCheeseman posted:

I loved the way BioShock looked and the production values are real nice, but just about everything else felt like a regression.

In general I'll agree but I'll give it credit for its "but thou must" progression being given a diagetic explanation.

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GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

by Cyrano4747


pentyne posted:

After getting sick of always being gated from going somewhere due to not having repair, hacking, or leverage, I ended up maxing up leverage because I figured forcing doors and moving things would be more helpful.

Holy poo poo I did not realize how effective thrown objects are as a weapon. It almost seems unfair because 1v1 those phantoms just get destroyed by an avalanche of furniture and if I run out of missiles within 5 ft of me, just zap them with a nearly fully upgraded stun gun and go pick up a sofa or a tape deck.

Glad you figured out a strategy that works for you and got through things.

Ravenfood posted:

In general I'll agree but I'll give it credit for its "but thou must" progression being given a diagetic explanation.

The gameplay was bad but I really did like this aspect of Bioshock.

Valtonen
May 13, 2014

Tanks suck. Big time.

A friend of mine never finished bioshock and still believes to this day that the ending has you push andrew ryan off the airlock and him imploding outside of the window.

Would you kindly- storyline was the best part of bioshock, the gameplay was dated by the time it came out.

Bioshock infinite was fun shooter for about first 3 hours after which it became Tedious to the max.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Of all the games I've played, Bioshock Infinite is the only one with such a staggeringly lovely storyline that I flatly tell others not to play it before even discussing the gameplay itself. To this very day, I still cannot wrap my head around the fact that a full-blown mainstream gamedev company piled a whole bunch of insanely racist rhetoric and caricatures into their game to make it obvious that the bad guys were bad, only to turn around and unironically try to present the anti-slavery rebels as being "just as bad" or "bad in a different way" or some poo poo. Together with the already somewhat uncomfortably, er, old-fashioned storyline about a poor innocent pure virginal white girl suffering the depredations of evil men, it effectively presented the only black central character as an uncontrollably violent "angry black woman." I had been kind of uneasily giving Infinite the benefit of the doubt right up until that whole plotline's climactic scene, but as soon as that played out my husband and I just kinda looked at each other like, "ah, hmm, well, this is it: this is the bridge too far." Can't even imagine how loving awful it must have been for black folks to play through that poo poo. Infinite could be the most fun shooter ever and it would still be an irredeemably lovely, inexcusably racist game.

Luckily it is also a really lovely shooter, so there's no need for any confusion on that point!

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



Infinite was good

Vorenus
Jul 14, 2013


Angry Diplomat posted:

Of all the games I've played, Bioshock Infinite is the only one with such a staggeringly lovely storyline that I flatly tell others not to play it before even discussing the gameplay itself. To this very day, I still cannot wrap my head around the fact that a full-blown mainstream gamedev company piled a whole bunch of insanely racist rhetoric and caricatures into their game to make it obvious that the bad guys were bad, only to turn around and unironically try to present the anti-slavery rebels as being "just as bad" or "bad in a different way" or some poo poo. Together with the already somewhat uncomfortably, er, old-fashioned storyline about a poor innocent pure virginal white girl suffering the depredations of evil men, it effectively presented the only black central character as an uncontrollably violent "angry black woman." I had been kind of uneasily giving Infinite the benefit of the doubt right up until that whole plotline's climactic scene, but as soon as that played out my husband and I just kinda looked at each other like, "ah, hmm, well, this is it: this is the bridge too far." Can't even imagine how loving awful it must have been for black folks to play through that poo poo. Infinite could be the most fun shooter ever and it would still be an irredeemably lovely, inexcusably racist game.

Luckily it is also a really lovely shooter, so there's no need for any confusion on that point!

The most shocking part of this post is the fact that you're married.

Also Prey is still one of my top games of all time.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Angry Diplomat posted:

Of all the games I've played, Bioshock Infinite is the only one with such a staggeringly lovely storyline that I flatly tell others not to play it before even discussing the gameplay itself. To this very day, I still cannot wrap my head around the fact that a full-blown mainstream gamedev company piled a whole bunch of insanely racist rhetoric and caricatures into their game to make it obvious that the bad guys were bad, only to turn around and unironically try to present the anti-slavery rebels as being "just as bad" or "bad in a different way" or some poo poo. Together with the already somewhat uncomfortably, er, old-fashioned storyline about a poor innocent pure virginal white girl suffering the depredations of evil men, it effectively presented the only black central character as an uncontrollably violent "angry black woman." I had been kind of uneasily giving Infinite the benefit of the doubt right up until that whole plotline's climactic scene, but as soon as that played out my husband and I just kinda looked at each other like, "ah, hmm, well, this is it: this is the bridge too far." Can't even imagine how loving awful it must have been for black folks to play through that poo poo. Infinite could be the most fun shooter ever and it would still be an irredeemably lovely, inexcusably racist game.

Luckily it is also a really lovely shooter, so there's no need for any confusion on that point!

My boyfriend (who is black) hates Infinite for exactly these reasons.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on


Pillbug

Feels Villeneuve posted:



I think it was actually the office door code for the Looking Glass office back when SS was being made.

Thereís a hospital near me where the code to get into the EMS room is 0451 and I really want to find the nerd that set that up and tell him I appreciate it.

Bioshock Infinite having the rebels go all Reign of Terror didnít feel weird or wrong to me at all. Like, thatís pretty standard violent uprising type stuff. Hell, most of the goons that complain about that are also the ones that talk about guillotining people for having a condo.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I posted a 7 point defense of corporate wage theft because my brain is full of worms.

I can't think of any game that has aged as harshly as quickly as Bioshock Infinite.

Made during a time of naive idealism, a game that not only included a scene where you, the gamer, are watching horrible racial slurs, taunts, and jeers and then given the choice to hurl physical abuse at a helpless black couple for laughter and applause from a white crowd but used it prominently in its marketing

Gamergate broke the thin veneer of civility and then 2016 just unleashed the full force of tons of vile bigoted pieces of poo poo proudly spouting their hate speech no longer pretending its "ironic" in any way shape or form.

On that note, it was pretty fun to see all those popular "youtube atheists" out themselves as fascist loving alt-right hate boner having trash scum and their fanbase splintering and dying off.

Ugly In The Morning posted:

Bioshock Infinite having the rebels go all Reign of Terror didn’t feel weird or wrong to me at all. Like, that’s pretty standard violent uprising type stuff. Hell, most of the goons that complain about that are also the ones that talk about guillotining people for having a condo.

Yeah, sure killing the capitalists and gutting them in the street is fine, but the graphic scene of the Angry Black Revolutionary proudly slitting the throat of a child was just some tone deaf "what if also bad" moment.

flatluigi
Apr 22, 2008

here come the planes


infinite came out exactly at the inflection point of the majority of people not being willing to praise just about any AAA game that came out (both review-wise and games community wise) and the games community getting really loving upset at anyone criticising games for reasons other than how it felt to shoot things

it's a mediocre game with awful politics and if it wasn't Bioshock nobody would've cared (but if it wasn't bioshock it wouldn't have had the budget to do the little it did well so, lol)

_that said_ bioshock 1 is fine and I played it finally recently after the remakes came out (it was the first game I ever bought on steam and my lovely laptop couldn't run it, but I gave it a shot when I got the remaster for free). infinite being terrible doesn't really have any bearing on that, imo

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream



Ugly In The Morning posted:

Thereís a hospital near me where the code to get into the EMS room is 0451 and I really want to find the nerd that set that up and tell him I appreciate it.

It could just be a coincidence. There are only 10000 possible 4-digit PIN numbers after all

aniviron
Sep 11, 2014


pentyne posted:

After getting sick of always being gated from going somewhere due to not having repair, hacking, or leverage, I ended up maxing up leverage because I figured forcing doors and moving things would be more helpful.

Holy poo poo I did not realize how effective thrown objects are as a weapon. It almost seems unfair because 1v1 those phantoms just get destroyed by an avalanche of furniture and if I run out of missiles within 5 ft of me, just zap them with a nearly fully upgraded stun gun and go pick up a sofa or a tape deck.

At some point some goon in this thread did something similar and called the game "First person Donkey Kong" which is a term that has stuck with me over the years.

BattleMaster
Aug 14, 2000

Rodents of unusual size? I don't think they exist.

Fun Shoe

As we enter the apocalypse IRL, in addition to recording voice logs as often as possible, be sure to set every code you can to some variant of 0451; you never know which one the main character will discover first, after all.

Previa_fun
Nov 10, 2004

Aww, so I had my slant on. Lay off me!


flatluigi posted:

infinite came out exactly at the inflection point of the majority of people not being willing to praise just about any AAA game that came out (both review-wise and games community wise) and the games community getting really loving upset at anyone criticising games for reasons other than how it felt to shoot things

it's a mediocre game with awful politics and if it wasn't Bioshock nobody would've cared (but if it wasn't bioshock it wouldn't have had the budget to do the little it did well so, lol)

_that said_ bioshock 1 is fine and I played it finally recently after the remakes came out (it was the first game I ever bought on steam and my lovely laptop couldn't run it, but I gave it a shot when I got the remaster for free). infinite being terrible doesn't really have any bearing on that, imo

Bioshock is still one of my favorite games. It really shows its age (drat 13 year old game this year) but I just love the atmosphere and aesthetics.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

It's very funny to me when people defend Infinite because, again, even if you don't care about its violently tone-deaf (at best) writing, it's... still not a very good game

Vorenus posted:

The most shocking part of this post is the fact that you're married.

I agree, idk why the dude puts up with me. I hardly ever hurl coins or medkits at him and I've never once summoned a racist gatling gun robot to destroy his enemies

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



Angry Diplomat posted:

It's very funny to me when people defend Infinite because, again, even if you don't care about its violently tone-deaf (at best) writing, it's... still not a very good game

Itís good

flatluigi
Apr 22, 2008

here come the planes


obviously you should take a page from the game and find that the answer's somewhere in the middle

QuietLion
Aug 16, 2011

Da realest Kirby


The only part of Infinite that I found to be above par was the fun feedback loop you could activate through upgrading the crow power: set crow trap, enemy dies to crow, and that death spawns another crow trap. The story and most combat outside of Crow Messiah was messy for several reasons, and so I just focused on murder via a murder of crows.

OzFactor posted:

Speaking of, [postgame spoilers] do Alex and the crew say something if you do a no-neuromod run? I'm assuming they do, but I don't remember them saying anything like "boy, she sure used a lot of neuromods," just saying whether you leaned Typhon or not.
You do indeed get a singular line from them referring to this accomplishment, and just that one line. Itís disappointing that itís just one line, but at least this challenge can lead to an interesting run through!

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I posted a 7 point defense of corporate wage theft because my brain is full of worms.

Angry Diplomat posted:

It's very funny to me when people defend Infinite because, again, even if you don't care about its violently tone-deaf (at best) writing, it's... still not a very good game


I agree, idk why the dude puts up with me. I hardly ever hurl coins or medkits at him and I've never once summoned a racist gatling gun robot to destroy his enemies

The easiest answer to anyone who tries to defend Bioshock Infinite is to ask how the DLC trilogy turned out.

Because it sold so poorly they abandoned the idea after trying to rope people back in by returning to the underwater city that made the first 2 games actually interesting.

Jan
Feb 26, 2008

The disruptive powers of excessive national fecundity may have played a greater part in bursting the bonds of convention than either the power of ideas or the errors of autocracy.

pentyne posted:

Because it sold so poorly they abandoned the idea after trying to rope people back in by returning to the underwater city that made the first 2 games actually interesting.

quote:

According to Take-Two Interactive, the game has sold more than 6 million copies as of May 2014, and 11 million a year later.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


pentyne posted:

After getting sick of always being gated from going somewhere due to not having repair, hacking, or leverage, I ended up maxing up leverage because I figured forcing doors and moving things would be more helpful.

Holy poo poo I did not realize how effective thrown objects are as a weapon. It almost seems unfair because 1v1 those phantoms just get destroyed by an avalanche of furniture and if I run out of missiles within 5 ft of me, just zap them with a nearly fully upgraded stun gun and go pick up a sofa or a tape deck.

There are surprisingly few, if any, places that you actually need repair or hacking or leverage to get into.

Leverage can be bypassed by recycler charging the barricade. And repair and hacking can generally be bypassed by platforming or mimicry or using the crossbow.

massive spider
Dec 6, 2006

sets off a "weirdly specific fetish artwork" vibe

pentyne posted:

Playing on normal

Just saw the first video after getting the zero-g propulsion equipment, heading to trauma center for I assume the pyschoscope

Have leverage, repair 1, suit inventory, dismantle

Only range weapon is the basic pistol, wrench is used as first resort.

I went from being able to handle enemies as needed to 100% unable to kill a teleporting phantom that splits into 2 during combat.

If you canít fight something donít fight it. One thing I like about this game is the regular enemies remain a credible threat, at least till the end when I was drowning in shotgun ammo anyway.

massive spider fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Mar 24, 2020

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream



Rooms are one thing but aren't there quite a lot of containers you can't open without hacking? Also mimicry may bypass some of the other skills but it's also a skill itself that requires investment, admittedly less than maxing out hacking. Hacking is also nice for dealing with turrets if you go with a lot of points in Typhon abilities. Best case for repair is having more recyclers and fabricators available which is a big QOL upgrade if nothing else.

Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Mar 24, 2020

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I posted a 7 point defense of corporate wage theft because my brain is full of worms.


No the DLC plans. Burial at sea was supposed to be a trilogy but they only made 2 episodes.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

by Cyrano4747


Mimicry is a great combat tool since you can still use typhon powers while safely mimicked.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



pentyne posted:

No the DLC plans. Burial at sea was supposed to be a trilogy but they only made 2 episodes.
From what I understand, DLC very rarely sells well - though it might give the base game a second life for GOTY / "ultimate" editions

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I posted a 7 point defense of corporate wage theft because my brain is full of worms.

Going from Prey to DO4M is uh, quite the switch. Wildly, wildly different but side by side they really are some of the best examples of their type of gameplay. If it was back in my old playing habits I'd probably have played Prey 3-4 times like I did the original Deus Ex (also a bullshit impossible game now that I recall, I just had way more patience as a child)

SCheeseman
Apr 23, 2003



Deus Ex is easy as hell, but that's mostly because it's simple to cheese the AI once you understand how it works.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

SCheeseman posted:

Deus Ex is easy as hell, but that's mostly because it's simple to cheese the AI once you understand how it works.

I can't tell whether people are talking about OG Deus Ex or the new one, which I haven't played. I know the original could be vastly easier or harder depending on which augs you pick (always, always, always choose the fast running aug).

Which skills you invested in made a pretty big difference, too - not just in combat effectiveness but in ease of progression as well. Hacking was a pretty handy one for ATM shenanigans, and any one of lockpicking, demolitions, and - with the melee damage aug - melee was good for opening locked doors.

God, all-out melee builds are loving hilarious in that game. I should go back and play it again.

Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Mar 25, 2020

SCheeseman
Apr 23, 2003



Angry Diplomat posted:

I can't tell whether people are talking about OG Deus Ex or the new one, which I haven't played. I know the original could be vastly easier or harder depending on which augs you pick (always, always, always choose the fast running aug).
I've gotten through the game without any augs or skills at all (a little save scumming needed now and then though) and it wasn't difficult. I guess my perspective is a little skewed, I've played the game for hundreds of hours at this point. I know where every item and enemy is it's all burned into my brain.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

SCheeseman posted:

I've gotten through the game without any augs or skills at all (a little save scumming needed now and then though) and it wasn't difficult. I guess my perspective is a little skewed, I've played the game for hundreds of hours at this point. I know where every item and enemy is it's all burned into my brain.

Yeah, if you know where everything is and aren't afraid to use the consumables you find, Deus Ex isn't very difficult at all. There are a couple of hairy spots depending on how you want to progress the story (the ambush at the subway exit is a real motherfucker, holy poo poo that's a lot of crossfire), but it's certainly doable.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005



You know, I never fully understood what would trigger the non-fatal death at the subway ambush (in Deus Ex). I'd just keep reloading until I died "properly" instead of seeing a game over screen. Anyone know?

GUI
Nov 5, 2005



Basic Chunnel posted:

Infinite was good

I unironically agree with this, the original was a ton of young people's introduction to that type of game back in the day plus Infinite had a decent female following due to the Elizabeth character in a genre that barely cares about women. They're still well regarded titles nowadays, just not generally among the 30+ year old ancient gamer crowd. Infinite had some fun shooting feedback, art design and setpieces and even with its flaws and some unintentional unfortunate writing choices was the swan song of Half-Life style linear first person story driven shooters. There's been titles like the new Wolfenstein titles that approach that since then, but they're not quite the same.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I posted a 7 point defense of corporate wage theft because my brain is full of worms.

GUI posted:

I unironically agree with this, the original was a ton of young people's introduction to that type of game back in the day plus Infinite had a decent female following due to the Elizabeth character in a genre that barely cares about women. They're still well regarded titles nowadays, just not generally among the 30+ year old ancient gamer crowd. Infinite had some fun shooting feedback, art design and setpieces and even with its flaws and some unintentional unfortunate writing choices was the swan song of Half-Life style linear first person story driven shooters. There's been titles like the new Wolfenstein titles that approach that since then, but they're not quite the same.

A circus game of knock the cans down except the cans are black people= "Unintentional unfortunate writing"

Game design idea "Lets present horrifically racist set pieces and let the player decide if they want to engage in the racism or not" so sad how could anyone ever think that would be problematic

A violent revolution that has a denouement with Angry Black Female leader executing a young lily white child and essentially screaming "THIS IS THE WORLD WE WANT!" boy sure makes you think maybe both sides are always equally bad right?

"Unintentional unfortunate writing"

pentyne fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Mar 25, 2020

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985


Yea, the writing in infinite disappeared up it's own arse without trace.

flatluigi
Apr 22, 2008

here come the planes


also elizabeth is absolutely not a well written female character and you're misrepresenting 'some people did cosplay of her' as 'a decent female following'

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



It was good

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream



As someone who never played any Bioshocks, I'm seeing a lot of what seem to be well-reasoned arguments why Infiinite was bad, whereas everyone in the "it was good" camp is literally just posting that and no actual arguments/counter-arguments whatsoever

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005



Infinite was universally reviled, anyone defending it is usually just there to stir the pot. The only unironic blanket praise you'll see of it is from the major review sites shilling for it, which for a lot of people was finally the wake up call about what those sites are.

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Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



Itís actually good, but also consensus is boring

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