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Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



I always get those two motherfuckers mixed up

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Floodixor
Aug 22, 2003

Forums Electronic MusiciaBRRRIIINGYIPYIPYIPYIP

I'm playing it right now but it's with the DLC and so I have a bunch of poo poo in the Bench already. I don't quite get it exactly - can I COMPLETELY disassemble these pre-made ones and just try to build new things?

I also have a bunch of suits and I'm bummed that they're basically just cosmetic. I also am not crazy about the universal ammo, that takes the fun out of resource managing it.

At the start of the game I really didn't like it because it felt like a sea of unskippable cutscenes or QTE stuff which is definitely a symptom of a certain era of shooters.

But I'm 20% into the game and it's calmed down a bit. I just don't know if I'm liking it as much the other two, though. It just feels like they're trying to do too much.

Then again, I've been playing through the whole series over this past quarentined week so also maybe too much dead space.

Please tell me your thoughts on dead space 3 and if I should keep trucking along!

Lt. Danger
Dec 22, 2006

jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun



DS3's biggest problem is EA forced in co-op and micro-transactions which had a knock-on effect on everything else - gotta have more monsters, universal ammo to shoot the monsters, copy-paste side-dungeons, stat inflation, crafting, number-grinding etc. etc. so, yeah, you gotta keep up-to-date on your recycling and your scavenger bots so you can keep your guns upgraded. the rocket launcher's pretty good but it needs the blast guard - don't think you'll get that for a while though

the game's actually pretty long and the cast dynamic is fun in a genre kinda way. my favourite bit is when Red Isaac just steps in from out-of-shot whenever there's a cutscene

Floodixor
Aug 22, 2003

Forums Electronic MusiciaBRRRIIINGYIPYIPYIPYIP

Yeah at the start whel we find Ellie and dude hugs her close I thought "woah, OK" and then wasn't sure if I was getting my characters mixed up or something, but then right after that on the elevator ride down Issac addresses it right away with Ellie.

Like a few scenes later I'm gunning down necromorphs in some lab while thinking "flying all the way to an abandoned ship in space and it's just two people, you, your ex girlfriend, and her NEW BOYFRIEND" and I realized that that soapy relationship bit is something I'm way more interested in than shooting limbs off of wailing creatures, and normally it sure is the other way around.

DC Murderverse
Nov 10, 2016

"Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"



Previa_fun posted:

Bioshock is still one of my favorite games. It really shows its age (drat 13 year old game this year) but I just love the atmosphere and aesthetics.

i'm replaying it again right now and i am aware of all of the criticism and even agree with much of it but it's still one of my favorite games for the same reason. Rapture just looks so good in BioShock, it's probably one of the most iconic locations in gaming and it feels like every single area was handcrafted from ceiling to floor. That's what it shares most in common with Prey, because Prey's space station is maybe not quite as iconic because it isn't as unique but it's definitely got that handcrafted feel.

But i would also probably listen to someone tell me why Bioshock 2 is actually the best Bioshock, because purely from a gameplay perspective they're totally right. It fixes some of the biggest issues with Bioshock's action (no duel wielding plasmids and guns, the hacking grinding everything to a screeching halt), gives you a little more time with the Little Sisters, and while the characters aren't quite as memorable and the story is a little more "we've crafted these levels, how can we connect them together", the individual areas are still really well done and really fill out the world of Rapture, especially the slums area, since so much of the first Bioshock was about those exceptional people who would thrive in a Randian paradise and the rich worlds they live in, whereas aside from Atlas's worker rebellion, they don't really get into the concept of "you still need someone to clean the toilets in Galt's Gulch".

infinite is butt and i strongly dislike it, but i'm starting to feel a pull to play it again, because i put it down after beating it a week or two after release and have never touched it since, even when the DLC that I prebought came out. I hated it when i finished it and then i went online and I saw everyone talking more about the racial component of it, which I really didn't see during my play through because that definitely not a context I saw things in at the time, and it was probably one of the first real social criticisms of a video game I'd actually read and absorbed that wasn't just a Jack Thompsonian "Violence is bad because it makes people shoot up schools"

I know there's another Bioshock in development and I'd be perfectly fine going back to Rapture and even seeing them attempt to tell the same story again. You could incorporate some of the characters from 2 or even try to push them together. The two feel much more like a pair than the way Bioshock 2 was seen when it came out (expansion pack sequel on the verge of a new console generation), I think fully intertwining them would be the way to go. Honestly I've always wanted to see that Bioshock film adaptation that almost got made a while back but since it didn't happen I think some streaming service/premium cable outfit should just drop a shitton of money to make The Rise and Fall of Rapture, going from Andrew Ryan building the place to the advent of ADAM to Fontaine's "death" and the events of the first game.

of course, if we do get to go back to Rapture it had better look gorgeous. The models from BS1 and 2 are like a decade and a half old at this point, they skipped an entire console generation, seeing something that was made for the PS5/XBSX ought to blow my socks off.

Floodixor
Aug 22, 2003

Forums Electronic MusiciaBRRRIIINGYIPYIPYIPYIP

I'm now past the first episode of the Witches DLC for Dishonored 1 and I can see why this DLC is heralded. It really is terrific.

What I also have seen said by some of ya'll is that dishonored 2 generally has less interesting level design - except for two places that are the best in the series, and I was curious as to what those were and WHY. I don't have dishonored 2 but after this DLC and staying indoors all day, I'm seriously considering it.

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

Time to button mash!


Donít spoil yourself. If youíre hungry for more Dishonored after finishing up Daud, head right into D2.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005



It's killing me, Dishonored2 won't work for me in Proton and it aches. I bought the bundle and was so drat keep to continue the story/gameplay.

Floodixor
Aug 22, 2003

Forums Electronic MusiciaBRRRIIINGYIPYIPYIPYIP

A sounds like Dishonored 2 is in my future today.

I've said it before, BUT I LOVE the art direction for D1. I haven't even really seen screenshot for D2, but please tell me they didn't "upgrade" to some gritty realism VS the more cartoonist and colorful D1.

isk
Oct 3, 2007

You don't want me owing you

Floodixor posted:

A sounds like Dishonored 2 is in my future today.

I've said it before, BUT I LOVE the art direction for D1. I haven't even really seen screenshot for D2, but please tell me they didn't "upgrade" to some gritty realism VS the more cartoonist and colorful D1.

It's still cartoony and colorful. Textures are sharper, but everything's still properly bold with plenty of mud and blood to go around.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985


Floodixor posted:

I haven't even really seen screenshot for D2, but please tell me they didn't "upgrade" to some gritty realism VS the more cartoonist and colorful D1.

It is more detailed - I think you'll like it though.
D2 has two of the best maps I've ever seen. Going from D1 to D2 was a blast for me.

Previa_fun
Nov 10, 2004

Aww, so I had my slant on. Lay off me!


Found a fun easter egg in Doom: Eternal

Floodixor
Aug 22, 2003

Forums Electronic MusiciaBRRRIIINGYIPYIPYIPYIP

Rats. I finally got Dishonored 2 and my computer just can't really run it. If I have all the settings on Very Low it just looks gross, anyway.

I loved Dishonored 1 so much because it ran so smoothly on my system but also looked great. I'm not sure what the ideal settings are for Dishonored 2 but I just can't seem to hack it and it seriously bums me out because I was most looking forward to it out of anything in the queue, which means after I wrap up Dead Space 3 I'll need to figure out what to play next in the Great Quarantine of 2020

I remember PLAYING Quarantine back when I was a teenager, just gunning around the city getting fares and running into people while listening to the Gin Blossoms CD I just got for Christmas in my CD-ROM drive at the SAME TIME.

Guillermus
Dec 28, 2009




Previa_fun posted:

Found a fun easter egg in Doom: Eternal


That's a really cool detail

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.

Wasnt there a mimic in Prey that disguised as a Post It note?

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005



Not that I recall? It's a reference to the room filled with post-its...

Grip it and rip it
Apr 28, 2020


Just beat this game, twice, got the split affinity achievement and am now starting on the DLC.

Originally bought the game when it came out and played through once, launching myself out of an escape pod ASAP so I could win.

Great game. Thinking about going back and maybe playing dishonored. Is there much of a difference between the two? I was gonna start with the PS4 one.

Restrained Crown Posse
Sep 4, 2006

You know. Leather.


Dishonored is essentially the spiritual successor to Thief in much the same way as Prey is to System Shock. Definitely start from the beginning and don't skip the DLC as a) it's great and b) it sets up the sequel.

My only criticism of them is something common to similar games in that stealth is a much more rewarding path to take, yet there's lots of fun violent toys that you miss out on as a result.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



Dishonoredís worldspace is different - the Arkane level design is there with verticality, nooks and crannies, etc, but itís more like Deus Ex, where you have big levels, a primary goal, and once you complete it you move on to the next level, permanently. A few levels are revisited but theyíre not strictly the same place you left. Different parts might be available, thereís local reactivity, etc.

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


They're different enough that you can love one and not particular care for the other.

PantsBandit
Oct 26, 2007

it is both a monkey and a boombox


Restrained Crown Posse posted:



My only criticism of them is something common to similar games in that stealth is a much more rewarding path to take, yet there's lots of fun violent toys that you miss out on as a result.

It would be nice if abilities all had a silent and loud use-case so players didnít feel forced into one or the other.

Like maybe the rat swarm could distract or cause enemies to flee instead of just killing them.

aniviron
Sep 11, 2014


Rat swarm can be useful for on-demand possession, and isn't lethal right away, can be a good distraction.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005



Rats as a nonlethal distraction never even occurred to me. But yea Dishonored really does draw a strong line between the lethal and nonlethal skills, and the plot results thereof; it's a real flaw in the game. Still a *great* game with outstanding DLC. I even hesitate to call it DLC, the Daud stuff is a full-blown expansion that's great.

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


Serephina posted:

Rats as a nonlethal distraction never even occurred to me. But yea Dishonored really does draw a strong line between the lethal and nonlethal skills, and the plot results thereof; it's a real flaw in the game.

One of the design goals with Mooncrash was specifically to reduce this kind of "guilt driven gameplay"


(from a gdc talk on the dlc)

PoultryGeist
Feb 26, 2013

Crystals?

Fun Shoe

Years behind the curve here, but I just started this. Are Phantoms supposed to wreck your face early on? I've managed to kill one because it was next to an exploding canister and another because it took the time to one(?)-shot a turret, but any other just brain-blasts me into oblivion. Its not a bad thing overall, but I'd figure I'd check to see if its just me being Bad At Games or not.

Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



The early game is bound to be rough, yes. You can avoid the phantoms - explore a bit around the lobby and you might find some stuff that can help you out if you want to go toe to toe with them.

OzFactor
Apr 16, 2001


PoultryGeist posted:

Years behind the curve here, but I just started this. Are Phantoms supposed to wreck your face early on? I've managed to kill one because it was next to an exploding canister and another because it took the time to one(?)-shot a turret, but any other just brain-blasts me into oblivion. Its not a bad thing overall, but I'd figure I'd check to see if its just me being Bad At Games or not.

You're absolutely doing the right thing: use the environment to fight them if you want to fight them. You can also hide from them and sneak around them in just about every situation. Lastly, the first ones you see are generally pretty slow and you can just run if you need to; they're all over the machine shop area, for example, but there's also a lot of walls and junk all over and they have trouble following you through it. Later on, running is much less advisable, but by then you'll have more ways to fight back.

PoultryGeist
Feb 26, 2013

Crystals?

Fun Shoe

Okay, its good to know that its not just me being terrible. They haven't really blocked me, the one that patrols the main part of Hardware was the one I got with the turret. I've just been seeing them, thinking 'maybe this time I'll be able to goo-n-shoot successfully', and discover that no I cannot. I'll just keep crawling around on pipes for a while until things click. Thanks folks!

aniviron
Sep 11, 2014


Also worth noting that Phantoms don't strictly speaking one-shot turrets- but the projectile they shoot has a bit of physics impulse to it which tends to knock over the turret if it's not somewhere stable.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on


Pillbug

Two turrets are really the minimum for Phantoms, theyíll chew it up before it can shoot the ball and knock them over.

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

Time to button mash!


Phantoms are tough until you can really upgrade your weapons or use psi powers. Enjoyably tense, I think.

Dramatika
Aug 1, 2002

THE BANK IS OPEN

I just beat this again after running through on release and setting it down - it's such a shame it didn't do well enough to get a sequel - all I want is more to explore. Tried Mooncrash for a bit, and it was fun, and I'm going to play some more, but it doesn't scratch the same itch.

Re: Dishonored chat - I'm going to preface this with 'yes, Brigmore Witches and Knife of Dunwall are clearly the superior DLC', but City Trials had it's strengths as well - I quite enjoyed the assassin mode with a randomized target that you had to gather information on every time, and the burglary mission with the massive house to steal the Faberge eggs from was great level design. I had a soft spot for the bend time massacre puzzles as well. On the other hand, yes, the speed run kills and drop cascade and mobility trials were stupid. So yes, over all, the DLC was bad and not worth what they orginally charged for it, but if you're picking up the definitive edition anyways, which is pretty much the base game at list, the two good DLC list, and City Trials for free, at least give the stealth minigames a shot.

What are some other 0451 games to play?

Deus Ex (original) - played back in the day, was bad at it, may be worth revisiting
Deus Ex : Human Revolution - played maybe halfway through immediately after playing Dishonored for the first time years ago. Seemed good, but very flawed, especially playing it right after Dishonored - the ammo for stealth takedowns felt really bad, and forced boss fights felt really bad.
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided - I got this in some bundle or something and it's sitting there unplayed. Worth launching?
System Shock 2 - was absolutely fantastic until I got to the part that was inside an anus. Might replay up until that point and just pretend that's the end.
Bioshock: Played on release, maybe worth a replay of the remastered version?
Bioshock 2: Never played, have a copy of remastered though.
Bioshock Infinite: Played on release - I liked the set pieces, but yeah, exploration was trash, combat was trash, and the 'WELL ACTUALLY' with the interracial couple in the beginning turning out to slit a childs throat was loving awful. I did enjoy the stupid ending though.
Dishonored: Best game ever made, fight me
Dishonored 2: Sequel to the best game ever made, pretty as hell, but for some reason just isn't as good. However, Clockwork Mansion, A Crack in the Slab were fantastic, and I really enjoyed the Grand Palace as well
Dishonored: Death of the Outsider - I bought this on release and haven't played it yet.
Thief (originals) - these did not age well, tried playing them but it's hard after the above. I remember loving the demo of Thief one back when I was young though.

So looking at this, I should probably do Death of the Outsider and then maybe Bioshock 2? Is Mankind Divided worth a go if I really didn't care for Human Revolution? Are there other games I should look into?

edit; I'm bad at spoiler tags

Dramatika fucked around with this message at 18:52 on May 23, 2020

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


Mankind Divided is worth it just for Prague---giant, intricately designed hub---but it's obvious they had scope issues and it's a lopsided experience as a consequence.

Bioshock 2 is good, but it's essentially a slighthly mechanically superior Bioshock 1. It's very much an imm sim lite.

SCheeseman
Apr 23, 2003



Alien Isolation should probably be on the list. Also you should play it.

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


calling it 0451 is a stretch, no?

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on


Pillbug

Dramatika posted:


Deus Ex (original) - played back in the day, was bad at it, may be worth revisiting

Itís really good- you may actually have an easier time playing it now because youíre more used to the style of gameplay. Back when it came out most FPS games were like quake and adjusting was tricky.

If you (or anyone else whoís reading this) are interested Iím trying to get a bunch of goons to stream it on a passed-around save file next month for the 20th anniversary.

Dyz
Dec 10, 2010


SCheeseman posted:

Alien Isolation should probably be on the list. Also you should play it.

The original system shock too

..but dont play it, it is very dated.

SCheeseman
Apr 23, 2003



The enhanced edition can be wrangled into playing in a modern way (WASD, modal UI/Game switching more inline with SS2) after which it actually holds up really well.

Rinkles posted:

calling it 0451 is a stretch, no?
I don't think it has the key combination, but it is an immersive sim. I admittedly hold a pretty broad definition of the genre, I think Zelda BOTW and Bethesda's RPGs count too, but Alien Isolation is pretty obviously cut from the Looking Glass mold. It's more of an immersive sim in spirit than the Deus Ex prequels at least.

SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 16:53 on May 23, 2020

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008




Dramatika posted:

System Shock 2 - was absolutely fantastic until I got to the part that was inside an anus. Might replay up until that point and just pretend that's the end.

At that point you're like 30-60 minutes away from the end of the game, but all you're really missing out on is some audio logs, two mediocre boss fights, and a callback to SS1 that's probably really cool if you played SS1 first, but I hadn't and it doesn't look like you have either. It's worth looking up the logs and the final cutscene just to see what happens.

quote:

Thief (originals) - these did not age well, tried playing them but it's hard after the above. I remember loving the demo of Thief one back when I was young though.

Thief 1/2/2X are tricky these days because there's some absolutely fantastic levels in both of them, but also some real stinkers, and even with NewDark they're showing their age. I replayed them recently and enjoyed them even after playing Dishonoured, but I've got nostalgia going for me.

quote:

So looking at this, I should probably do Death of the Outsider and then maybe Bioshock 2? Is Mankind Divided worth a go if I really didn't care for Human Revolution? Are there other games I should look into?

Stuff missing from your list, off the top of my head:
- Prey (the 2017 game by Arkane), it's a spiritual sequel to System Shock 1/2 and owns owns owns, we have a thread for it over here and IMO if you play only one of these games it should be this one. It should definitely be higher priority than Bioshock 1/2.
- System Shock 1, it's pretty different from SS2 and while the graphics are really dated the gameplay and level design still holds up really well today. Some people get weird about the controls but the fan-made Portable Edition added mouselook and key remapping years ago and the Enhanced Edition now has those officially. The main reason you wouldn't want to play it is that there's a remake coming out soon-ish, which might be good.
- Ultima Underworld 1/2, the games Looking Glass made before System Shock. IMO this is another "presentation is dated, gameplay still holds up" game. There's no enhanced edition but there is a fan-made Unity port of the first game.
- Arx Fatalis, Arkane's first game and the unofficial Ultima Underworld 3. Like UUW1/2 it has a lot of "FPS-RPG" trappings like character classes and an XP/level system, but so did SS2 and no-one minded, so.
- Pathways into Darkness, Bungie's precursor to Marathon, now playable in the Aleph One engine. Explore an impossible pyramid, interrogate the ghosts of dead nazis, kill an alien god.

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Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


ToxicFrog posted:

Stuff missing from your list, off the top of my head:
- Prey (the 2017 game by Arkane), it's a spiritual sequel to System Shock 1/2 and owns owns owns, we have a thread for it over here and IMO if you play only one of these games it should be this one. It should definitely be higher priority than Bioshock 1/2.

lol

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