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aniviron
Sep 11, 2014



The irony is that most sidequests don't give you much in the way of enemy respawns if you do them right away, enemies respawn at milestones in the main mission.

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Serephina
Nov 8, 2005



Beaten to it, but yea: enemies don't respawn on a timer, but on a plot threshhold thing. It worked out well imo, as you're neverbeing harassed when just putzing about, but when moving with purpose (and new toys/ammo) there's always some new guy to deal with.

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream



They're not just straight respawns either - you'll often encounter higher tier enemies than you did the first time around. I liked it - I thought it was cool to fight new enemies in an area you already know your way around so you're better able to use the environment to your advantage

Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Sep 15, 2022

infraboy
Aug 15, 2002

Phungshwei!!!!!!1123

My general strategy was sneaking up on things with the shotgun and also using the psychic ability that hurts them and stops them from being able to fight back for about 10 seconds as being the most effective.

I wish the inventory was just a little bigger or at least let me use some Neuromods to make it so.

I did like how you pretty much have to budget your mods depending on your playstyle, like I didn't bother with most of the Typhon mods because I didn't want to deal with the turrets shooting at me.

Hannibal Rex
Feb 13, 2010


There are some respawns on area transitions. I explored a lot of the outside when you can first do space walks, and whenever I returned to engineering to offload loot, there was a fresh teleport phantom there.

FrickenMoron
May 6, 2009

Good game!


Don't let turrets bother you from taking typhon powers, they are weak and easily dispatched. Also if you really want to you can hack them to be friendly forever.

Also yes, there absolutely are respawns on area transitions. Plot progress will just add more advanced enemies and trigger certain encounters.

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010


I liked backtracking in Prey just because running through the previous levels with the mobility upgrades lets you navigate them very differently. It's neat.

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Kanye West - Touch the Sky



the turrets matter hilariously little because they tend to be pre-destroyed later, probably to give you incentive to learn repairs

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008




Wafflecopper posted:

Maw of Chaos was linear garbage

Soulforge wasn’t great, but at least it wasn’t just proceeding down a tunnel until you get to the end

Maw of Chaos was completely linear but it was also atmospheric as gently caress and culminated in one final act of sneaking for all the marbles.

Linear as it is, it's still better than Soulforge, a level where you spend most of your time running back and forth through half a dozen nearly identical concrete boxes carrying plot tokens between machines. If you get bored you can detour to Karras's bunker and stare at him, which still isn't particularly interesting.

infraboy posted:

I wish the inventory was just a little bigger or at least let me use some Neuromods to make it so.
It does? Human -> Engineer -> Repair tree has skills for increasing your inventory space and chipset slots.

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008


infraboy posted:

I wish the inventory was just a little bigger or at least let me use some Neuromods to make it so.

You get a “mule operator” you can summon that basically functions as extra inventory, and carries over to other characters in the same “run”. I didn’t realize this and ended up playing a noticeably more difficult game than was intended.

hazardousmouse
Dec 17, 2010

That ain't a noodle, chirpy!



Wait the mule is a mobile cache that goes straight to other characters? Lol I never used that thing

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

Time to button mash!


Yeah, they really don't explain to you well enough what the summon operator is supposed to do, but it's a shared inventory between the Mooncrashers. I think it gets wiped when the corruption crashes out the sim, though.

vv: Eh. Sometimes it's okay to keep one of those power blocks in it in case you get stuck somewhere or if you find that cool plasma knife thing you want to play around with.

Bogart fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Sep 15, 2022

Rev. Melchisedech Howler
Sep 4, 2006

You know. Leather.


Much like crafting the hourglasses, it's much better to just ignore the mules and play as if it's not there.

hazardousmouse
Dec 17, 2010

That ain't a noodle, chirpy!



I mostly just created actual survival caches. If I was about to escape with someone, I'd find a nearby spot that had a crate or two and dump everything but a pistol, ammo, and medkit in case I got ambushed.

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010


I appreciate the Argus Installation for being the one time in my life where learning about panopticons in college was relevant.

Draadnagel
Jul 16, 2011

..zoekend naar draadnagels bij laag tij.


Just finished this game. Feels great and i'm mostly positive. Started it like two years ago, put it down after a couple of hours because it didn't click and just last month picked it up again. Finished it in one go after that.

Went for a mostly nice run and tried to save as many people as possible and unfortunately didn't finish all the sidequests (most of them though). I did find there was a lot of running around and backtracking which was annoying towards the end. There was a lot of hidden stuff that took a while to figure out. The verticality of the levels overwhelmed me a bit at first, but after a while it became second nature to look for different routes. The levels really show the attention and care that went into this game. It was a lot of fun just navigating the world. The station itself is a piece of art and the fact that you get to go outside and just cruise around is fantastic.

Modwise i was running a lot of gun and run mods, and some typhon psychoshock after which i whack them to bits or just unload with the shotgun. The nullifying effect really came in handy. At the end it was a one shot kill most of the time, with a few whacks of the wrench. Bullets were reserved for bigger monsters. Went full in on hacking and human mods, but also typhon mods and some fun powers.

I actually went for multiple endings because i bailed when given the chance. Had a good chuckle at the reaction of Alex. Afterwards i made the compromise choice because the more definitive ending just didn't feel right after i couldn't save the pilot (and alex). I did not see the ending coming and was not spoiled for it. A nice surprise i must say.

Overall i really liked it.

Might give the other Arkane Games a go, i hear good things about the dishonored games.

aniviron
Sep 11, 2014



Prey is a gem and Dishonored is just as good; definitely go for it if you're considering it. It has a lot of the same kind of level design and gameplay, and while the art is very different it's excellent too.

Mierenneuker
Apr 28, 2010


We're all going to experience changes in our life but only the best of us will qualify for front row seats.



I like the Dishonored games, but that's probably because I played them all as a superpowered mass murderer for the first playthrough. I personally think it is a mistake of starting wanting to be the ghost who never kills and never gets spotted and has to quickload every 10 seconds.

Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Sep 23, 2022

Elden Lord Godfrey
Mar 4, 2022


Phigs posted:

I feel like the solution would be better telegraphing the endings and making sure the players have what they need to make the decision before the end. Take the endings of Deus Ex, you could easily have the player choose the ending before the final mission and then tweak the final mission accordingly. The final level doesn't have anything in it that couldn't just be moved a bit before. Have everyone make their spiels about what you should do and then the one you pick to side with gets you to the base and helps you through it and the ending fires when you finish the level. Instantly better.

A lot of the problem with "locking in" endings is that players can do it without knowing what the ending is. So you get things like "do I side with X?" where players are trying to see what doing that gets them. They don't know if they want the X ending because they don't know what the X ending is but they have to choose the X ending before that knowledge and thus feel locked in. They get new information that may make them want to change, but they can't. If the question is "do I want to plunge us into a technological dark age?" then that's something the player can answer much earlier and thus not feel like they're locked in. Just gotta make sure the player has what they need to make the decision at the point of decision.

This was essentially what Vampire the Masquerade did, and it worked out quite well. Basically it asks which faction the player wants to side with, and things play out essentially the same.

CowboyAndy
Aug 6, 2012


Mierenneuker posted:

I like the Dishonored games, but that's probably because I played them all as a superpowered mass murderer for the first playthrough. I personally think it is a mistake of starting wanting to be the ghost who never kills and never gets spotted and has to quickload every 10 seconds.

See, I never had that problem on my first playthrough when I tried to ghost it. You just have to accept that you will probably be caught at some point and be prepared to run or fight your way out of it. Attempting to stealth the game is significantly more fun when you don't quickload.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007



Mierenneuker posted:

I personally think it is a mistake of starting wanting to be the ghost who never kills and never gets spotted and has to quickload every 10 seconds.

This is how I played thief back as a kid and this is how I will continue to play any game that lets me do so because I like it

Eason the Fifth
Apr 9, 2020


KillHour posted:

This is how I played thief back as a kid and this is how I will continue to play any game that lets me do so because I like it

There is no :hmmyes: big enough for this

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

Time to button mash!


That they have a console friendly quicksave quickload in dishonored 2 means they absolutely knew and accepted this.

Phigs
Jan 23, 2019



CowboyAndy posted:

See, I never had that problem on my first playthrough when I tried to ghost it. You just have to accept that you will probably be caught at some point and be prepared to run or fight your way out of it. Attempting to stealth the game is significantly more fun when you don't quickload.

The ideal of a stealth game is where you feel challenged but never fail. It's close to how Hitman 3 feels for me now that I've played so much of the trilogy. I still fail sometimes but most of the time I'll succeed as long as I'm careful, and it feels great. As you pointed out quickloading makes the game less fun, but I also feel the same about going loud, and depending on how the game works I often feel the same about escaping and resetting because it's basically just a longer quickload.

I know people say they enjoy stealthing until they get caught and then going loud but I've never found that very satisfying unless the plan was specifically to go loud but maybe take a couple down silently first. If I'm trying to stealth through a section it's because I want to play through the section stealthily. If I wanted to go loud I'd have gone in loud. So being forced to go loud is essentially a kind of soft failure state.

The big problem is getting stealth to be that tightly balanced for a player. Especially since there's no stealth bar that lets you make a few stealth mistakes like there is a health bar for combat. Though I suppose there could be. Just give you a limited amount of temporary invisibility that triggers when you would otherwise be spotted. Though that might not feel as rewarding.

But either way I think the core problem of stealth games is that getting caught in a stealth game reduces the fun regardless of what the player does as a response.

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream



There kind of is a stealth bar though, when you make just a little noise or guards just catch a brief glimpse of you at a distance they go “hey what was that” and go semi-alert and start snooping around a bit. It even recharges - stay hidden long enough and they’ll decide it must have been rats and go back to their normal patrol route.

aniviron
Sep 11, 2014



Dishonored: the one game where the guards are probably right, and it is probably rats.

Unfortunately, the rats are also going to devour the guardsman whole.

Rev. Melchisedech Howler
Sep 4, 2006

You know. Leather.


Something like a rewind feature like in Invisible Inc or Sands of Time would work. It'd have to be quite strict though - five seconds tops.

Autsj
Nov 9, 2011


Phigs posted:

But either way I think the core problem of stealth games is that getting caught in a stealth game reduces the fun regardless of what the player does as a response.

Far as I recall (and this is from ages ago so my memory might be faulty) it was originally a stated intend to have "failing" at stealth to be fun in Dishonored by making both combat and escape viable and smooth. This kinda merged into both stealth and combat being equally viable which then kinda devolved into the community seeing it more as a singular playstyle focus choice than the intended hybrid.

It's still true though, Dishonored plays smooth as hell if you don't hit the quickload button and adapt to the situation. And other games like the mentioned Invisible Inc. don't reduce your options so much as up the challenge and pressure on discovery.

Rev. Melchisedech Howler posted:

Something like a rewind feature like in Invisible Inc or Sands of Time would work. It'd have to be quite strict though - five seconds tops.

These were basically just slightly more limited quickloads. Couple of games have done things like a world slowdown for 2 seconds or so on discovery to bonk or hide. Which is a nice attempt at giving a bit of grace without cutting into the need to adapt.

Autsj fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Sep 24, 2022

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Samopsa
Nov 9, 2009

Krijgt geen speciaal kerstdiner!


The videos by this dude are the best way to show that dishonored is way better as a "loving lovely people up"-simulator instead of playing as invisible silent corvo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKyT19o-Nl8

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