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September Fries and Ill Back
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Sep 20, 2018 19:48
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 18:58 |
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Oh nuts! Uh...Semper Fi and I'll Be Back.
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Sep 20, 2018 20:00
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Semper fi anf gote
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Sep 20, 2018 20:02
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Semper Fi, I'll Be Back.
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Sep 20, 2018 20:03
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Semper Fi and Gote
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Sep 20, 2018 21:08
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Semper Fi and I'll be back.
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Sep 20, 2018 21:57
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Vote Gote! (and I'll be back)
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Sep 20, 2018 22:53
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Semper Fi, Gote
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Sep 20, 2018 22:58
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Semper Fi and Gote True its not a particularly good bote, but its still a bote!
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Sep 21, 2018 00:22
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At this point, we need more striker aircraft. Busting up the SAM nest up north is gonna require a lot of strike and SEAD work. Aircraft with standoff strike weapons (ex. glide bombs) are gonna do a lot better than ones without them. I'll Be Back - is the most capable option. It's gonna be expensive to operate ten 3rd/4th-gen fighters. But man, oh man, is it worth it. The Mirage F1s are a great mid-tier strike fighter. Better than the Bisons. Cheaper than the Gripens. They can do CAP with 2x MICA EM (45 nmi) and 2x Magics (10 nmi). They also can do in-flight refueling, so they can stay on station longer. Really nifty strike aircraft with 4x SBU-64 or SBU-38 Hammers (35 nmi). The F-4E Terminators are strike monsters. Choose from 2x SOM A cruise missiles (130 nmi), 1x 4,000lb Popeye (40 nmi), 2x Mavericks (8 nmi), 2x 2,000lb bunker-busters or 2x 2,000lb LGBs and GPS bombs. Sadly, the PS-14 radar is a piece of junk. Semper Fi! - is the most cost-effective option. Fewer planes = lower operational costs. The Intruders are the best attack aircraft on offer. For SEAD, they have 4x HARMs (70nmi). For standoff attack 4x Walleyes (30 nmi), 4x Harpoons (75 nmi), 4x Skippers (14 nmi) or 4x Mavericks (8 nmi). For bomb trucking, they have 4x 2,000lb Paveways or bunker-busters. For support work, they have 4x TALD decoys or a buddy-tanking pod. The Predators will take some of the strain off our Reapers and will lets us do near 24/7 aerial surveillance of the Gjader area. Could be useful FACs for upcoming tank-busting missions. The AN/TPS-43 is probably the 2nd best radar on offer. Not as good as the Ground Master, but still respectable.
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Sep 21, 2018 01:08
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Voting for Semper Fi and I'll be back!
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Sep 21, 2018 01:20
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Just gonna point out again that if we're looking for standoff options, nothing is gonna top the Delilah from the Bote option for range. 276 km! 35 km more than the SOM A.
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Sep 21, 2018 01:56
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Semper Fi/I'll be back!
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Sep 21, 2018 01:58
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habeasdorkus posted:Just gonna point out again that if we're looking for standoff options, nothing is gonna top the Delilah from the Bote option for range. 276 km! 35 km more than the SOM A. Delilah has more range, can loiter, has far superior accuracy to SOM A and *might* be able to do independent target recognition. In turn, SOM A is even stealthier than our Storm Shadows and honestly our Storm Shadows already do most of what a Delilah does. I don't feel like it's hard for us to get within 130nmi of a target, or even closer if we want to do some twisty sneaky low level work.
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Sep 21, 2018 02:25
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 The votes are in!  In round 1 we have Semper Fi in the lead with I'll be back shortly behind. Seeing as no one option has 51% of the vote we drop the lowest two and see how it looks.  A-6 #1 : Realbarrow and splode A-6 #2 : Slothrop and DSM a-6 #3 : Happy Hedonist and Drunken Scoper A-6 #4 : Ren Spam and Cimbri MQ-1 #1 : The Sandman MQ-1 #2 : Kilonum Z the Ivth had requested a swap. Kilonum had requested a Cargoplane. So if both parties concur we'll rotate roles. A couple of folks voted for both fallout options so the tally wasn't universal. Seeing how close these were I think we'll all be happy with the outcome.  As our planes go through a ridiculous refit period we have an opportunity to put some birds aloft and take an ELINT lap. If you'd like to do this just list the aircraft you'd like to go up and a basic mission. This isn't a combat op just an intelligence gathering opportunity. (No hostiles will engage unless you tell me to fly the aircraft and get it fired upon) The Tokyo Bay Fortress is currently being pulled off the beach by some very aggressive and expensive tugboats. As such the ELINT suite on board is out of action until Captain Grey Hunter has a chance to calibrate it with grog. New planes are currently en-route and should arrive via Istanbul within a week. If you'd like to propose 3DP options and procurement, now is the time. Back to you Hired Goons!
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Sep 21, 2018 03:08
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To appease the bote lobby, i suggest we purchase the following Four Viggens
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Sep 21, 2018 03:18
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I'm just gonna keep advocating for those weird EWAR Lansens if nothing else just for the novelty factor (though probably only buy one). The ELINT sensor looks pretty good even.
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Sep 21, 2018 03:26
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hoo boy, finally a plane of my own, and it's an Intruder!!!! Better start growing a gross mustache.  Goodbye rear end in a top hat!
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Sep 21, 2018 04:36
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What are the limitations for suggesting 3DP aircraft again? Pre-2000s, correct? If so, I’m suggesting the following: 2 Akefs —One of our better CAP planes so more would be better; at least we’ll be able to keep two reserve craft should we lose any more birds. 2 F16CG Blk 40 Falcons (Baraks) —Seems like the Akef’s leaner, more rambunctious cousin, but in Falcon flavor. If nothing else, it’ll be another CAP capable craft (if I’m reading the stats/loadout correctly, which I’m probably not). 2 F15DJ 1995 variant —Again, more CAP. We need more CAP. I’m open to suggestions HereticMIND fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 06:42
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for some reason your links appear to be broken (for me at least). I think it's the trailing /. Barak F-16 This appears to lack any BVR missile so count it out of CAP Japanese Eagle Does have BVR but they're (admittedly much improved) Sparrows. My thinking is that SARH is to be avoided where possible. I'm pretty fond of this Falcon variant personally, as it adds some AIM-120A action. Much better than the Sparrows on the majority of stuff from that era. Can also throw around some HARM's and a bunch of Paveways for extra strike capability in a pinch. I like the idea of taking SEAD away from the Tornadoes because I feel like the ALARM has been a buggy munition in my testing and possibly in Yoopers missions too. Having the A-6 and a few of these F-16's gives us a lot of strike capability as well as adding some CAP that doesn't attract the Meteor tax. slothrop fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 06:48
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slothrop posted:for some reason your links appear to be broken (for me at least). I think it's the trailing /. Fixed the links. Was, in fact, the trailing / that 404’d the drat things. Speaking of Meteor Taxes, would the -B variant of the AIM 120 count towards it? Because if no, then I’m tempted to swap the J-Eagles and the Baraks with these Falcon variants. They seem to be much more robust in the CAP department.
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Sep 21, 2018 07:06
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HereticMIND posted:Fixed the links. Was, in fact, the trailing / that 404’d the drat things. Meteor tax, afaik only applied to AIM-120D AMRAAMs and Meteors, not to any other A2A weapons.
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Sep 21, 2018 07:37
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Bacarruda posted:Meteor tax, afaik only applied to AIM-120D AMRAAMs and Meteors, not to any other A2A weapons. Ok, good. Glad I could double check.
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Sep 21, 2018 07:42
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The MiG-31 Foxhound, the most capable brick ever designed. Features include: - Insane Zazlon radar, the first aircraft radar to use PESA technology and still posessed of a very creditable 170nmi today. - Being from 1982, meaning we should be able to 3DP it. - The R-33 SARH missile, which hopefully won't incur the Meteor tax while actually outranging the Meteor. As a SARH missile this doesn't actually mean that it'll ever have a chance of winning a fight against a Meteor armed aircraft but it should pose a real problem to aircraft with things like early AMRAAMs, R-77s and Derbies i.e. what we usually face as fighter opposition. - Blistering speed/altitude performance, being able to get up to 1350kts at 60000ft. - Absolutely nothing else useful, which means that apart from the complexity tax it should be reasonably cheap compared to all the multirole options we're buying into. We've bought the coolest subsonic strike aircraft of the Cold War. Now let's buy the coolest high speed interceptor. THIS POST HAS BEEN CANCELLED. We've tried the things out in the Discord and the radar isn't powerful enough for them to outrange AIM-120As on fighter, never mind Meteors. Useless, pointless, bad, do not buy. FrangibleCover fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 10:04
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But they haven't modeled the Republic xf-91 Thunderceptor in the game yet.
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Sep 21, 2018 10:17
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Yooper posted:
"Playing vidya games for a living is better than driving a giant fuel air bomb around in a circle." - Maverick
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Sep 21, 2018 10:24
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Man I love the MiG-31 as an idea but I feel like Russian ordinance comes up dud a lot of the time in-game. If we're going to go that nuts, let's get Tomcats because they're even cooler and Dat Phoenix Tho. Should we see if we can get ahold of some F-4Gs in the Wild Weasel configuration? I'm still leery of all those radars. I feel like we're going to have to do some First Gulf War-style doorkicking where we suppress everything that pokes its head up and only then let the strike aircraft in. Dr. Kyle Farnsworth fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 13:25
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If we want crazy fast russian stuff, take some MiG-25s. The interceptor variants are getting kinda long in the tooth even compared to the MiG-31 (though the PD variant can be kinda funky with a decent IRST and ~80km-range IR-seeking missiles), but the SEAD MiG-25BM is just ludicrous. It uses a loving semi-ballistic ARM with 240km range, Mach 3.6 top speed and a 150 kilogram warhead!  And the fast-bomber/recon ones are kinda funny, too, just for being so stupidly fast. They should also be relatively cheap as they are very specialised weapons-wise (the SEAD and fast bomber variants only use one type of weapon plus drop tanks respectively and the interceptors use three plus drop tanks).
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Sep 21, 2018 15:26
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The Intruders have decent ECM and plenty of HARMs, do we need more SEAD aircraft? More cheap CAP (since we didn't buy those Mirages) and weirdness seems more interesting. Yooper: How much would it cost to 3DP 1x Lansen 32E and 6x F-16CG Blk 42? Or if we're going full SEAD, 1x Lansen 32E and 2-4 MiG-25BM Foxbat F. The Foxbats are probably ridiculously expensive to fly and a maintenence nightmare, but it's not likely that we'll keep them for long if we'll clean up our inventory. They even have offensive ECM! PenguinSalsa fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 15:44
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Yooper posted:As our planes go through a ridiculous refit period we have an opportunity to put some birds aloft and take an ELINT lap. If you'd like to do this just list the aircraft you'd like to go up and a basic mission. This isn't a combat op just an intelligence gathering opportunity. (No hostiles will engage unless you tell me to fly the aircraft and get it fired upon) Real quick: Operation Cowardice Order of battle: Mirage F.1CR - ASTAC pod recon Atlantique - Maritime Surveillance VC.10 - Tanker Orders: Atlantique to orbit Gjader and provide a central measuring point for ELINT. Mirage to fly up the Dalmatian coast at high altitude and get cross-cuts so we can localise radars using bearings from two distant points. Mirage flies as far as it can and then returns. Mirage to tank from VC.10 over Gjader and then fly as far as it can up the Albanian/Macedonian/Bulgarian border region. Do not enter any enemy controlled areas. Do not get shot at. VC.10 can recover after tanking, Atlantique and Mirage recover when the Mirage returns from Bulgaria. This is intended as a minimum effort, minimum risk mission using assets I don't think we're going to need in the next mission because I think there's a possibility that taking these aircraft out of maintenance might put them on the ground at an inconvenient time. All of these assets also didn't end up doing an abnormal amount of flying and fighting during the defence of Gjader so hopefully it won't come up. Someone totally should do a poking the bear mission plan involving visual reconnaissance of SAM sites at minimum altitude though, that'd be rad.
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Sep 21, 2018 15:50
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  We still have some unused 3DP upgrade cards. Since Schmoz has booked it, I'm not sure the pre-1985 upgrade still holds (We'll have our lawyers sue them. Hopefully we'll have a settlement by 2157). But, what are going to do with that post-1985 upgrade? Obviously, it doesn't make sense for up to constantly 3DP and upgrade waves of F-16s. So some limits will probably apply. Operating costs might be higher (~12% instead of 3DP's usual 10%). There might be a bottleneck (only 2-3 can be upgraded at a time and it takes 1-2 turns to complete upgrades). A cap on numbers (only 6-7 airframes can be upgraded) With all that in mind, here are some ideas on how to spend our $106,815,308! Project Baztard  F-15D Baz-2000 Upgrade - inspired by the Israelis real 1995 upgrade program. Aircraft: Upgrade 4x F-15D Akef (1985) - currently in fleet. Cost: $20 million ($5 million per plane)* Upgrades: New radar software and hardware, new cockpit displays, computer and electrical upgrades, GPS, AIM-120 datalink, helmet-mounted sights and NVGs, Python 4, AIM-120C, 2,000lb JDAM, and Popeye glide bomb. *Cost for the entire Baz-2000 upgrade program on ~57 F-15s was $86.72 million (2017 USD). Appx. $1.52 million in per-jet costs, but I figured in labor and legal bills gotta get paid. Project Cakeslice Aircraft: 3DP -> Upgrade 3x Egyptian Mirage 2000 EM (1992) - currently have a 3DP template for this. Cost: $105 million (~$30 million to purchase each plane + ~$5 million per plane for upgrades) - Yooper, how much would the printing an upgrading cost? I'm not sure if you gave us exact numbers for 3DP'ing it. Upgrade to...  Indian Mirage 2000H-5 - adds MICA missiles, Durandal anti-runway bombs Litening targeting pod, new radar, RWR, DECM, MAWS (Missile Approach Warning System), new engines, and new avionics and software (i.e. datalink) for the MICA missiles and Litening pod. Or upgrade to...  UAE Mirage 2000-9 - adds MICA missiles, Hakim glide bombs, Storm Shadow cruise missiles, camera recon and SLAR recon pods, Damocles sensor pod, new MICA datalinks and the avionics and software needed for all the new pods and weapons. New radar, MAWS, and engines. Keeps the old DECM and RWR. Project Viggenator  Swedish JA 37 Viggen (2002) Aircraft: 3DP -> Upgrade 6x AJ 37 Viggen (1990) - currently have a 3DP template for this. Cost: ~$102 million ($14 million per plane to 3DP + ~$3 million per upgrade) Upgrades: AIM-120B AMRAAMs, new engine, new radar and some airframe changes (taller fin and longer fuselage) Project Colombia  Colombian Kfir C.10 (2010) Aircraft: 3DP -> Upgrade 6x Cheetah D (1997) - currently have a 3DP template for this. Cost: ~$90 million ($12 million per aircraft to 3DP, ~$4 million per aircraft for upgrades) Upgrades: Derby missiles, Python 5 missiles, refueling probe, SPICE glide bombs, Griffin and Opher bombs, J79 engine, new radar, new RWR, airframe changes (ex. engine cooling intake on fin) and weapons-related avionics. Project Cheetah  South African Cheetah D (2002) Aircraft: 6x Cheetah D (1997) - currently have a 3DP template for this. Cost: ~$78 million ($12 million per aircraft to 3DP, ~$1 mill per aircraft for upgrades) Upgrades: adds Derby missiles, that's it. Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 16:35
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Setting aside 3DP and intel planning... ...why did the 3DP Curtain only turn on and engage the EU.NATO strike package AFTER they'd finished bombing the ROMARM print line? I know, I know, it's to keep us from worrying about "the sky is now Bisons" in a meta-sense, but within the narrative, they could have turned on when EU.NATO was too deep to retreat but BEFORE they'd blown up tens of millions in 3DP infrastructure. Why did they not do so? 1) Does the system have a ludicrously long OODA loop? Did it take time on the scale of hours for it to process the EU.NATO attack and only flip everything on after the bombing had occurred? In CMANO mechanics it's probably doable by making the 3DP Curtain its own faction and cycling it between "neutral" and "hostile" every half hour or so. 2) Is the system controlled by another party? Did this other party want ROMARM weakened for some reason, perhaps as a way to keep them from getting too big headed? Are they the same party that owns the jammers? 3) Is there a faction within ROMARM that is trying to contest things? Did they endeavor to shut down the 3DP Curtain because they felt it gave ROMARM's CEO too much power? Will we be getting contacts within ROMARM to feed us intel? 4) Am I missing another possibility?
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Sep 21, 2018 16:35
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PenguinSalsa posted:The Intruders have decent ECM and plenty of HARMs, do we need more SEAD aircraft? More cheap CAP (since we didn't buy those Mirages) and weirdness seems more interesting. slothrop posted:Barak F-16 HereticMIND posted:What are the limitations for suggesting 3DP aircraft again? Pre-2000s, correct? A quick refresher on how 3DP works. The cutoff for planes that can be printed is ~1990-1991. Doing small runs of planes like the Lansen doesn't end up being economical. Yooper posted:
Dr. Kyle Farnsworth posted:Man I love the MiG-31 as an idea but I feel like Russian ordinance comes up dud a lot of the time in-game. If we're going to go that nuts, let's get Tomcats because they're even cooler and Dat Phoenix Tho. As much as I want to re-enact Top Gun. Phoenixes get slammed with the Meteor tax and are stupidly expensive (like $2.5 million a pop in today's dollars). That's more than a Meteor (~$1-2 million) and it's a much worse missile. We really don't need more SEAD. We have Tornadoes, Nighthawks, and now Intruders that all do the job just fine. FrangibleCover posted:Real quick: Operation Cowardice Could I suggest we send up the Argus and the Prowler, as well? It'll give us info on any flying threats. And multiple ELINT platforms allows us to triangulate emissions to find the source/
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Sep 21, 2018 16:46
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Thanks for the reminder about the upgrades! Those Mirages look far more interesting than the F-16s.Bacarruda posted:A quick refresher on how 3DP works. The cutoff for planes that can be printed is ~1990-1991. Doing small runs of planes like the Lansen doesn't end up being economical. Didn't Yooper scrap this formula and tell us that he'd work out the cost for 3D printing on a case by case basis while back? Around the previous procurement phase IIRC.
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Sep 21, 2018 16:54
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Davin Valkri posted:Setting aside 3DP and intel planning... Could there have been a weakness with the 3DP Curtain itself? A flaw with the system that wasn't caught and patched until after the attack started?
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Sep 21, 2018 19:38
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Okay then, I've had an even stupider idea that I'd like a quote for. The MiG-25RB strike bomber. This sounds like a strange request but it takes advantage of three things: 1. You can't jam an iron bomb. 2. You can't shoot something doing 1350kts at Angels 60 with a SPYDER. Or much of anything else really. 3. You can't tell me that a Soviet aircraft from 1972 that has two (2) loadouts and one (1) dumb weapon is going to be expensive to print. It doesn't even have a bloody radar! I have tried this out and at max speed and max altitude it can land every bomb it drops within 3500ft of the aim point. Which is, uh, good for area targets like the ones we're going after? But seriously, if we're going to be firing thousands of ARMs into a thicket of Tunguskas to try and thin things out while getting screwed by jamming that we can't counter... there is a way to bypass it all. Additionally I'd like to ask if tooling for MiG-25RBs will reduce the price for MiG-25PDs and MiG-25BMs (or the reverse).
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Sep 21, 2018 20:30
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Is that crazy enough to work?
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Sep 21, 2018 20:38
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Probably not sadly. The thing exists to be a tactical nuclear bomber so accuracy is not *that* important so when its carrying iron bombs it doesn't really hit anything. [e] I mean if you really wanted to just throw a bunch of bombs quasi randomly across a city then I guess it would do the job.
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Sep 21, 2018 21:16
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Strike Command: Sometimes Accuracy Isn't the Best Answer. Unless we just upgrade the Akefs a 3DP purchase will probably eat up most of our remaining funds (based on Bac's estimates) and while it'd be hilarious to carpet bomb the Balkans at 1350 kts it's probably not a good idea. We could always hope that Yooper's feeling generous and either gives us a discount on the tooling costs or lets us rent a bunch of Wild Willy trash for a couple of missions (on the condition that we return them in somewhat decent shape, of course). Edit: A single Lansen would cost ~$90M according to the formula that Bac quoted, not counting the complexity modifier. That's about as much as the Growlers that we've been offered earlier. 
PenguinSalsa fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 21:31
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 18:58 |
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Personally, if we wanted to get goofy with bombers, we might as well save our funbucks to print out one or two older strategic bombers that can carry a messload of GBUs, like an old TU-16 or TU-95, the later is still operational and can at least be modified to be an MPR aircraft as well. (I also hereby also recommend in addition to a bote lobby we also have a big plane lobby as well)
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Sep 21, 2018 21:48
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