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New Chapter: https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1007494
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Sep 18, 2020 16:26
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For all the talk about strategy in the fights in this thread, Naruto and Sasuke constantly bumrush as if they've lost their single shared brain cell, and it's really unfun to read, not gonna lie.
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Sep 18, 2020 17:09
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:For all the talk about strategy in the fights in this thread, Naruto and Sasuke constantly bumrush as if they've lost their single shared brain cell, and it's really unfun to read, not gonna lie. That’s a problem with Sasuke and Naruto yes. Because they were too powerful following Naruto they got hit with the stupid stick a lot.
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Sep 18, 2020 17:26
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There was a noticeable lack of them employing any of the strategies that they just learned work against Isshiki, but I still think up to this point we saw some clever logic being used to counter him. The super saiyan slobberknockers that late stage Naruto dips into don't really lend themselves to that kind of thinking, so when it's time to bust out the super moves Naruto charges in with two vanilla Rasengans even though he should know it won't work.
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Sep 18, 2020 17:31
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Guess Isshiki still cares about the family rules even now.Fair Bear Maiden posted:For all the talk about strategy in the fights in this thread, Naruto and Sasuke constantly bumrush as if they've lost their single shared brain cell, and it's really unfun to read, not gonna lie. Well, the initial bum rush was Sasuke desperately trying to save Boruto and Naruto having to cover for both Boruto and Sasuke. Once they were able to fight normally they did actually come up with a quick flanking maneuver. TheHan posted:There was a noticeable lack of them employing any of the strategies that they just learned work against Isshiki, but I still think up to this point we saw some clever logic being used to counter him. The super saiyan slobberknockers that late stage Naruto dips into don't really lend themselves to that kind of thinking, so when it's time to bust out the super moves Naruto charges in with two vanilla Rasengans even though he should know it won't work. Well, they already used their knowledge of Isshiki's shrinking to warp him away in the first place (disguising Boruto as a weapon). Past that, their knowledge ends since they didn't get to watch the second part of the fight with KK and Isshiki doesn't have a Karma any more. Hypocrisy fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Sep 18, 2020 |
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Sep 18, 2020 18:24
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naruto and sasuke should have just said "i must go, my home planet (the moon) needs me" at the end of naruto so everyone could forget about their ssj4 ultra instinct powers naruto could be hokage from the moon through ninja-Zoom
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Sep 18, 2020 21:12
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Jazerus posted:naruto and sasuke should have just said "i must go, my home planet (the moon) needs me" at the end of naruto so everyone could forget about their ssj4 ultra instinct powers They could also just have made their injuries more severe? Like Sasuke is blind now and Naruto only has one functional arm. Maybe have Naruto also lose a leg or something. Then they get out of practice over the next 15 years because uh they can't train as effectively and lose some of their more bullshit powers. Now you've depowered both of them to a level that lets them still be part of a story without looming over it.
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Sep 18, 2020 21:19
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Hypocrisy posted:Well, they already used their knowledge of Isshiki's shrinking to warp him away in the first place (disguising Boruto as a weapon). Past that, their knowledge ends since they didn't get to watch the second part of the fight with KK and Isshiki doesn't have a Karma any more. They got to see KK use naturally occurring flames to counter the shrinking at least, and Sasuke specifically has a technique that uses natural lightning. Sage mode also seems like it’d hard counter the shrinking of jutsu since it adds in natural energy, but that I’m just assuming.
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Sep 18, 2020 21:59
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Zore posted:They could also just have made their injuries more severe? Like Sasuke is blind now and Naruto only has one functional arm. Maybe have Naruto also lose a leg or something. Then they get out of practice over the next 15 years because uh they can't train as effectively and lose some of their more bullshit powers. Alternatively, don't write the story about a new generation by focusing on the big alien villain no one really cared about and a world-ending threat.
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Sep 19, 2020 09:38
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I feel like existential threats and apocalyptic scenarios are something being pulled out because Kodachi is caving to fan demand for more Naruto and Sasuke. Their story is over, they should be kept as occasional seasoning (like, single page or single panel awesome poo poo, and only rarely) for Boruto's story. Instead it feels like we're getting 4th War Round 2 but sometimes their kids help out. This could have been done without DBZ power scaling. e. in anime news, I haven't really been keeping up with this arc - Hashirama cells again, really? I guess the Best Hokage ultimately turned out to be a sentient superpower-granting cancer tumor or whatever - but Senpou: Great Snake Lightning left me squealing like a fanboy. rndmnmbr fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Sep 20, 2020 |
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Sep 20, 2020 21:39
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8tzQiuqszw It's always really funny when the villain kills the music.
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Sep 20, 2020 22:26
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On further thought... We tend to treat Naruto as something really special because it has a habit of punching us right in the feels from time to time. It's really not, it's a well-written but still pretty standard shonen manga/anime. It's the equivalent of a good piece of genre literature, for all that we like it it's still bound to the trappings of its genre. I can't dog on it too much, because when it does hit, it hits so hard and so good - but at the same time, expecting it to be something transcending DBZ is an unfair expectation. Of course it's going to focus on fight scenes, of course it's going to have a crazy power curve, of course the main character is going to be front and center of situations an actual kid has no place being in. These are the trappings of shonen anime. Right here is where I think Boruto went wrong. We haven't had a good emotional gutpunch since the arc Kishimoto had the most direct involvement in, the chunin exams. Ikemoto and Kodashi are writing a very standard shonen manga without those gutpunches that make Naruto what it was. There's still a chance to fix it, of course, but by now it's going to have to cost Naruto or Sasuke their life to have the emotional weight it needs.
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Sep 20, 2020 22:49
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rndmnmbr posted:On further thought... Recently, I've been convinced that Kishimoto himself doesn't actually realize what made Naruto popular to begin with. Beyond the emotional parts, like the land of waves or Chuunin exams, I think that there were a lot of smaller things that he never realized that just resonated with the readers. Someone recently pointed out that even something as simple as handseals were a draw for Naruto, because it's something incredibly simple with a very clear effect that people who are into can easily mimic just to play pretend. There was also a very clear progression in power. After the Chuunin exams Akatsuki shows up with the guy who killed the entire Uchiha clan by himself and some other dude who looks like a shark with a huge sword. And their introduction is helped further by how Kisame seems to worry about Itachi's health. It's a fascinating introduction which immediately sets stakes (without going overboard because they acknowledge Gai and Kakashi as being dangerous) and it grounds them as being more than just a big bad since they seem to care about eachother. It's easy to understand and see. Compare that to how latter Naruto is basically: Eyehax, rasengan and large energy explosions from nowhere and really really never stopping to hammer home how incredibly special Naruto is. I'm still reading along with the daily releases on Mangaplus and in the big war it's really grating how he literally has to stop the story for half a chapter so every one present can get a reaction face for how Jesus like Naruto is. And he does that multiple times even. Basically, standard shonen fair. Burrito went straight to power escalation with enemies who all seem to have no connection to anyone, except possibly Kaguya, who everyone who read Naruto seems to hate. There have been some really great fights in Boruto and some decent use of tactics as well. But for the main story, right from the outset it's made clear that everyone (including ninja Jesus) is useless except Boruto.
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Sep 21, 2020 07:58
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Just watch the Boruto anime.
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Sep 21, 2020 08:01
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Darth TNT posted:Recently, I've been convinced that Kishimoto himself doesn't actually realize what made Naruto popular to begin with. Beyond the emotional parts, like the land of waves or Chuunin exams, I think that there were a lot of smaller things that he never realized that just resonated with the readers. Someone recently pointed out that even something as simple as handseals were a draw for Naruto, because it's something incredibly simple with a very clear effect that people who are into can easily mimic just to play pretend. the thing that separated naruto from the pack was worldbuilding. seriously. it might have been just made up as kishimoto went along, but for a long time things were consistent - characters had backstories that were grounded in the world, their power level mostly scaled with age and experience, everyone's ninja magic worked in the same fundamental ways. people fought for their homes and for money. it felt like a world that people really lived in, unlike DBZ where the action tends to take place on featureless plains and you get very little insight into the lives of regular people other than "everyone loves capsule corp i guess?" remember when kakashi was like...one of the most dangerous jounin in the elemental nations? like, regular rear end beginning of the series kakashi. that felt like a world within the realm of human possibility, with people like the kage, the sannin and akatsuki being monsters that were outside of the norm. the draw of the series in terms of fights and power progression was that these dweeby kids were going to go on adventures and grow up gradually and learn to be just as dangerous as kakashi. too bad that lasted about five seconds the other thing that i think is very appealing about naruto outside of japan, and i don't blame kishimoto for not "getting" this one because it's a common blind spot for japanese media creators, is how incredibly japanese it is. the edo period + a bit of modern stuff aesthetic is really good - it gave the series a strong personality, it contributed to the world feeling lived in and at least halfway grounded while also not being bland. Jazerus fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Sep 21, 2020 |
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Sep 21, 2020 09:02
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There was also the plot hook that Naruto would change the system that created Haku and Zabuza, which lends itself well to the idea that maybe there would be a moment where Naruto has to look as his dream of being Hokage and ask if that's what he really wants to do, if it means perpetuating this system. Also him challenging the system, the backlash that results, and perhaps a 'Team 7 escapes from the village' arc instead of a Sasuke Retrieval arc. Instead it turns into weird almost-fash 'The Village is Everything' poo poo, with genocide survivor Sasuke learning that it was for the best his clan was genocided because they were genetically doomed to evil anyway, or Neji dying
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Sep 21, 2020 09:17
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Jazerus posted:the thing that separated naruto from the pack was worldbuilding. seriously. it might have been just made up as kishimoto went along, but for a long time things were consistent - characters had backstories that were grounded in the world, their power level mostly scaled with age and experience, everyone's ninja magic worked in the same fundamental ways. people fought for their homes and for money. it felt like a world that people really lived in, unlike DBZ where the action tends to take place on featureless plains and you get very little insight into the lives of regular people other than "everyone loves capsule corp i guess?" Yeah, the world building was really good as well. It's big, it has secrets, some of which still aren't explained (which is good). It's easy to understand. And even some later concepts (like elements) build properly on the foundation. The world is fun. Kakashi was very interesting to me. Based on his original performance I always assumed he had a lovely amount of Chakra. He even gets winded from using Chidori once and after fighting Zabuza and basically only summoning some dogs he can only make like 2-3 clones while Naruto after getting cut up by Haku summons an army. Especially with the way Kakashi taught them control I assumed he just had fantastic Chakra control. But then the later chapters happened and he just fires of Chidoris and Kamuis to his hearts content to keep up with everyone else. But that's a shonen trapping getting in the way.
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Sep 21, 2020 16:15
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I like Kakashi the best because he's voiced by Rom Stoll from Machine Robo
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Sep 21, 2020 16:18
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I really watch the anime for the emotional beats - Itachi's final goodbye to Sasuke always gets me because it's full of things I wished I could have heard and said from various estranged and now gone family members. But I can think of three times Kishimoto botched the emotional stuff, two of which are because he couldn't write female characters worth a drat. First off was Hinata's confession during the Pain fight, that should have led into Naruto exploring his emotions concerning Hinata - and maybe it's just me, but I think there is powerful ground to cover in an essentially neglected and abused kid coming to terms with things like unconditional love. But no, this is shonen, we don't touch the icky girly stuff like burgeoning romances. Instead let's ignore it completely and only resolve it in a movie. The second was Sakura vs Sasuke, and just... ugh. The list of ways this was hosed up is huge. The Kazekage Rescue arc held so much promise, but between then and the Land of Iron she was essentially landscape because Kishimoto didn't know what to do with her. And then the next time we see Sakura take the initiative, it's just fuckup after fuckup after fuckup, resolved back to status quo of Sakura has a crush on Sasuke and and blah blah blah because Naruto has to save Sasuke and make him a good guy again and Sasuke has to get his girl. And it especially pisses me off because Sakura is a character rich with potential, if you drop the infatuation with Sasuke. The third time is Neji's death. Oh, this final battle hasn't really cost Konoha anything, let's kill *roll dice* Neji. Naruto feels sad for five minutes, but Hinata gives him a pep talk, ok we're fine let's fight some more. Every time before, a major character death is a huge turning point for someone. Neji winds up a mostly ignored speedbump. The whole thing gets shoved in because we haven't had a powerful emotional moment in a while, well guess what, we still haven't had one. These three stick out so much in my mind because they get held up against absolutely incredible things like Jiraya's death, or Sasuke learning who Itachi really is, or Konoha getting wiped off the map by Pain. E. Let me compare and contrast the above with Pain. He's already cost Jiraya's life, a huge blow against the village. And while the only one with a fighting chance against him is away, Pain hits the village out of nowhere. Everyone is confused, the hastily-assembled defense is losing badly, Pain is killing people left and right. But then when Pain gets what he wants, he retreats, and we get the tiniest breather, just enough time to ask "Is it over?". And then boom, Konoha is loving gone. Naruto gets there, and it's too drat late to save anything. He takes on Pain, and for a moment things are looking up - until Pain cranks it up another notch and starts fighting dirty. He puts Naruto down hard, and Hinata's sacrifice is the only thing that saves him - and saving him is literally the worst loving thing to happen, because now the Nine Tails is loose. And then Naruto meeting his dad for the first time is one of the most touching scenes in the whole franchise. And all the while, Pain is asking what is justice, and why is he not allowed vengeance when others are, and how would you change the world forth better in spite of hate and pain? And no one has an answer to him because there is no answer to be had. And then everything gets completely refocused because you discover Pain is actually Nagato, a scared little kid who desperately misses his best friend. And then the resolution - nobody defends or justifies or redeems Pain, he's genuinely just wrong, but so far gone he can't be saved - but he can do this one last thing before he dies, he can choose to be Nagato instead of Pain, he can die in the light. This is incredible, powerful, moving stuff. Legitimately one of the best villains ever. rndmnmbr fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Sep 21, 2020 |
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Sep 21, 2020 18:02
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Hypocrisy posted:That was always kind of silly when we had Naruto and Sasuke spending all night in the woods to learn to walk on trees. Remember when Sakura was the best at that and that was the last time she was the best at something?
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Sep 21, 2020 18:20
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Hey you can’t forget her 1vs100 puppet rumble, it was the ultimate “Sakura is cool now” red herring.
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Sep 21, 2020 18:31
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TheHan posted:Hey you can’t forget her 1vs100 puppet rumble, it was the ultimate “Sakura is cool now” red herring. And basically the only one if I remember right (not even sure if she gets any decent fights in movies or anime filler for that matter).
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Sep 21, 2020 18:34
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Sakura could have been so much more, the potential was there. Kishimoto just didn't know what to do with her. It's criminal that she isn't Doctor Sakura Uchiha in Boruto, but we don't respect titles except for Kage or Sannin.
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Sep 21, 2020 18:54
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I think Sakura is my least favorite Shonen herorine of all time, not only because of the fact that she obsesses over a guy who tried to kill her twice, but also that despite her main goal being to catch up to Naruto and Sasuke, she never reaches it.
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Sep 21, 2020 19:01
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Let's be fair, she never catches up because Naruto and Sasuke become ultra instinct super saiyan gods that don't even fit in their own franchise by the end. E. Loving Sasuke, though, is on her. At the very least she should have made Sasuke meet her on her own terms and prove he was worth her at the end.
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Sep 21, 2020 19:13
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Or she should have gotten together with Rock Lee, who genuinely loves her and is a very nice guy
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Sep 21, 2020 19:20
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Willo567 posted:Or she should have gotten together with Rock Lee, who genuinely loves her and is a very nice guy I 100% support this. E. Metal Lee with pink hair and giant pink eyebrows and a mean right punch enhanced by relentless training. rndmnmbr fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Sep 21, 2020 |
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Sep 21, 2020 19:22
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We're at Chuunin Exam levels of strength here for Sasuke.
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Sep 21, 2020 23:06
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Give me more of this Sakura: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJYgh5Wwuk4 (Also more animation like this, and more than just a minute of her being badass.)
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Sep 22, 2020 18:45
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Darth TNT posted:Yeah, the world building was really good as well. It's big, it has secrets, some of which still aren't explained (which is good). It's easy to understand. And even some later concepts (like elements) build properly on the foundation. The world is fun. Technically the narrative hardcore harps on the fact that Naruto has nearly infinite chakra, shadow clones are dangerous because they can kill someone making too many and most Jonin only max out at 20, when fresh and that’s still basically all they would be able to do in that fight. Kakashi I being able to make 3 after a fairly rough fight (and probably still not properly healed from the previous one) is meant to be impressive. Also remember in the original series he had serious Chakra issues from the Sharingan, because his body isn’t designed for it and he can’t turn it off. It’s why he uses it the way he does as a trump card because it wrecks his chakra pool (which I think he even explains in Wave at some point). Literally nobody but a Jinchuuriki could use Shadow Clones the way Naruto does. Naruto also gets a refill from letting the Fox out. This doesn’t stop later stuff from being shounen acceleration syndrome but thought it was worth pointing out. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Sep 23, 2020 |
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Sep 23, 2020 02:36
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Prowler posted:Give me more of this Sakura: This is a good example of an unbalanced fight. Shin clearly outclasses Sakura, but she still puts up a good fight and gets some solid hits in by thinking outside the box. Lord_Magmar posted:shounen acceleration syndrome Nice. I appreciate a good turn of phrase.
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Sep 23, 2020 03:52
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Lord_Magmar posted:Technically the narrative hardcore harps on the fact that Naruto has nearly infinite chakra, shadow clones are dangerous because they can kill someone making too many and most Jonin only max out at 20, when fresh and that’s still basically all they would be able to do in that fight. Kakashi I being able to make 3 after a fairly rough fight (and probably still not properly healed from the previous one) is meant to be impressive. Also remember in the original series he had serious Chakra issues from the Sharingan, because his body isn’t designed for it and he can’t turn it off. It’s why he uses it the way he does as a trump card because it wrecks his chakra pool (which I think he even explains in Wave at some point). Absolutely. That's why I originally really liked Kakashi. But SAS threw a wrench in after that. rndmnmbr posted:I really watch the anime for the emotional beats - Itachi's final goodbye to Sasuke always gets me because it's full of things I wished I could have heard and said from various estranged and now gone family members. Everything about Itachi is awesome. I'm still reading along on the Mangaplus daily release and he's just really well handled. It's unfortunate that Sasuka is a bit unhinged.
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Sep 23, 2020 08:09
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Darth TNT posted:Everything about Itachi is awesome. I'm still reading along on the Mangaplus daily release and he's just really well handled. It's unfortunate that Sasuka is a bit unhinged. I mean that's literally all Itachi's fault though. Sasuke was doing pretty great until he popped up - even Orochimaru was concerned that the curse seal wouldn't take because Naruto had such a strong influence on him.
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Sep 23, 2020 10:12
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I still maintain that a better solution to the Uchiha issue would have been for the Third Hokage to declare that he's training Itachi for the position of Fifth Hokage, he's certainly skilled enough for the job, clearly loves his village and has views on peace and war that align with Hiruzen's at the time. The Uchiha clearly respect the Third's family, or at least Mikoto and Fugaku do seeing as Sasuke is canonically named after Sasuke Sarutobi (the father of Hiruzen). It neatly creates a reason for the Uchiha to reconsider their plans for a coup/civil war, because they actually get what they wanted anyway, more recognition and an Uchiha in the Hokage Seat. It stops Itachi from having to do something monstrous, it knee-caps Danzo's plans, it allows the Third a chance to once more enter retirement without death. It's basically a ninja politics master-stroke and only doesn't happen because Danzo is playing sneaky rear end in a top hat and going around the Third's back to organise Itachi's actions.
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Sep 23, 2020 15:00
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Lord_Magmar posted:The Uchiha clearly respect the Third's family, or at least Mikoto and Fugaku do seeing as Sasuke is canonically named after Sasuke Sarutobi (the father of Hiruzen). I had been thinking about this recently. Worth considering that this might have been done in an attempt to still seem cool with the village.
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Sep 23, 2020 15:20
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Prowler posted:Give me more of this Sakura: When Kishimoto said he was bad with female characters, I think he was understating things pretty hard.
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Sep 23, 2020 17:27
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Teek posted:I had been thinking about this recently. Worth considering that this might have been done in an attempt to still seem cool with the village. Whilst true, Mikoto is explicitly stated as doing such because she hoped Sasuke Uchiha would be as great a ninja as Sasuke Sarutobi was. Fugaku might have allowed it for these reasons though, we ultimately know so very little about what the Uchiha were planning or going to do in terms of the coup as it is.
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Sep 23, 2020 19:54
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I keep thinking Minato's great plan to normalize relations with the Uchiha plan was as simple as A) publicly acknowledge that the policies of Tobirama and the sustainment of those policies under Hiruzen had driven a wedge between the Uchiha and the rest of the village and were in dire need of correction, B) appointment of a greater number of Uchiha shinobi to active ninja teams, C) appoint a greater number of non-Uchiha to the Leaf Police Force, and D) select either Shisui or Itachi for training to become the Fifth Hokage. Also possibly E) quietly stick a knife in Danzo's back when he wasn't looking. The first is the important one, saying "We were wrong in the way we have treated you, we do indeed value you, this is how we intend to prove it," is an easy way to start unruffling a lot of feathers. You won't reach the hardliners but you'll get a lot of fence sitters on your side. rndmnmbr fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Sep 23, 2020 |
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Sep 23, 2020 21:08
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In all fairness Minato wouldn’t need as much effort, part of the issue in canon was that the Uchiha were being blamed for the Kyuubi attack. Thanks to historical information about Madara, and the fact that they lost very few ninja to it (as they were busy doing military police action and maintaining peace in the village).
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Sep 24, 2020 03:02
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9/tails was an inside job
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Sep 27, 2020 16:28
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