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"dad nier hosed everything up" wasn't really a rug pull moment for me anyway since it really seemed like everything was hosed to begin with. nier wasn't a game about how the protagonist is actually the bad guy, it's more a game where the perceived bad guys have perfectly legitimate reasons for acting the way they do, just like the perceived good guys which is good because the latter is a much more nuanced and interesting story than "what if you were actually the bad guy????", though I admit I got bored at the repeated "oh the shades actually have feelings" revelations on run 2
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Oct 25, 2017 21:11
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Zoe posted:We've already seen Command is willing to have their own androids killed for bullshit reasons and lie about it to the ones doing the killing. I see it as a fairly sizeable twist that the Commander turned out to not be evil, but it's not like the lie about humanity and you know, the entire war is the only time they've done shady poo poo. Yeah, just to stress this point, go back and read the update where 2B and 9S confront the three YoRHa deserters.
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Oct 25, 2017 21:17
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Feels Villeneuve posted:"dad nier hosed everything up" wasn't really a rug pull moment for me anyway since it really seemed like everything was hosed to begin with. nier wasn't a game about how the protagonist is actually the bad guy, it's more a game where the perceived bad guys have perfectly legitimate reasons for acting the way they do, just like the perceived good guys I mean, "Dad Nier just killed all of humanity" isn't something that becomes really known because you don't have a lot of the context of the greater world unless you go seek it out outside of the game. All the stuff about White Chlorination Syndrome and project Gestalt is only really referenced to in the vaguest of ways to you, the player, and never directly mentioned to the characters at all. I'd hardly consider it a rug pull during the events of the game when you only read about it after the game is done and if you choose to seek it out. I would love to see a new Yoko Taro game that takes place in the gap between Drakenguard E and NieR 1 that documents all the extra dimensional magical X-Com poo poo that happens before Project Gestalt gets underway.
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Oct 25, 2017 21:37
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Nier 1 is more of a gradual progression of subsequent rug pulls. There's not one single defining moment where everything changes. In contrast, Automata is a slow burn until it suddenly pulls out the rug, rolls it up, and beats you over the head with it.
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Oct 25, 2017 21:42
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DeathSandwich posted:I would love to see a new Yoko Taro game that takes place in the gap between Drakenguard E and NieR 1 that documents all the extra dimensional magical X-Com poo poo that happens before Project Gestalt gets underway. Yoko Taro's got you covered.
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Oct 25, 2017 21:52
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Feels Villeneuve posted:which is good because the latter is a much more nuanced and interesting story than "what if you were actually the bad guy????", though I admit I got bored at the repeated "oh the shades actually have feelings" revelations on run 2 Yeah, the way the game tried really hard to make you feel bad about the shades just didn't do it for me a lot of the time since they laid it on so thick. At one point someone literally says "You're the real monsters!" when you do your mass murder of the Aerie, and I couldn't help but roll my eyes. Then there was that time you literally kill babies (who were all in a pile outside the ballroom door so there'd be a scene with Nier killing a bunch of babies) and by the end I just couldn't feel anything for them. This game is a lot more upfront with the idea of the machine lifeforms having a sense of self, and it's all the better for it.
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Oct 26, 2017 00:49
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The first time in the desert hit hard as hell, and there's no way the lp can do justice to the feeling of growing horror and sensation that you need to stop but can't help but keep going
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Oct 26, 2017 00:57
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This is beautiful, thank you
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Oct 26, 2017 01:26
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Momomo posted:Yeah, the way the game tried really hard to make you feel bad about the shades just didn't do it for me a lot of the time since they laid it on so thick. At one point someone literally says "You're the real monsters!" when you do your mass murder of the Aerie, and I couldn't help but roll my eyes. Then there was that time you literally kill babies (who were all in a pile outside the ballroom door so there'd be a scene with Nier killing a bunch of babies) and by the end I just couldn't feel anything for them. Yeah it was laid on too thick to do anything but roll your eyes after awhile. And I'm sorry but it's kind of on the people who have the information necessary for everything to not be hosed to actually take the ten minutes required to relay that information, I just never could get on board with 'oh so this guy that was deliberately kept in the dark was the real monster all along!!'
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Oct 26, 2017 02:02
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Yea same. Papa Nier wasn't doing what he was doing because he was an evil person, he thought he was doing the right thing the whole time and had no reason to believe he wasn't
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Oct 26, 2017 02:37
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I want one. It can sit on my TV stand next to Raiho!
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Oct 26, 2017 03:13
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Zoe posted:Yeah it was laid on too thick to do anything but roll your eyes after awhile. And I'm sorry but it's kind of on the people who have the information necessary for everything to not be hosed to actually take the ten minutes required to relay that information, I just never could get on board with 'oh so this guy that was deliberately kept in the dark was the real monster all along!!' Pop and Dev are the real villains. "Hey Nier, just a FYI, you know how Kaine is fused with a shade? Well we've heard about a way to do the same thing that'll cure your daugh-" "I'LL DO IT!" Tunicate fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Oct 26, 2017 |
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Oct 26, 2017 03:34
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They also thought they were doing the right thing and arguably were. That's really the whole point of the game, not "Dad Nier was really the bad guy all along", and the situation with the gestalts/replicants was already hosed up enough at the start of the game that I don't think it's about Dad Nier's hubris ruining everything either.
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Oct 26, 2017 03:37
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Tunicate posted:Pop and Dev are the real villains.
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Oct 26, 2017 03:47
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Tunicate posted:Pop and Dev are the real villains.
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Oct 26, 2017 03:55
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The Gestalt plan was a lovely and desperate plan which turned out to be massively flawed.
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Oct 26, 2017 05:18
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Didn't help that Shadowlord threw a wrench into when he said "hell with this" and just kidnapped Yonah. Grimoire Noir was just a massive, massive jackass.
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Oct 26, 2017 05:27
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InfinityComplex posted:God, I loving want that. I'd prefer a nedroid that I could actually set in my workplace without looking creepy, but for  I'd say that thing looks pretty decent.HR12345 posted:I started playing Agents of Mayhem this week. If Saint’s Row is Drakengard, then that game is Nier. I have played both Niers, read all 3 Drakengard LPs, and played every saints row game, and I still have no idea what this simile is trying to say. JT Jag posted:I'm curious as to A2's motivations. The only thing we know about her is that she was on YorHA's poo poo list, and that she believed that command was not to be trusted. Now YorHA is loving dead and we know that Command, while a pack of liars about the Council of Humanity, was mostly well-intentioned. At least, as far we we know so far. I'm interested to see what A2's purpose will be now that she doesn't have anyone to revenge herself on, and why she was on the run in the first place. Murder. A2's purpose is murdering machines.
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Oct 26, 2017 05:45
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LordAba posted:I want one. It can sit on my TV stand next to Raiho! still waiting for my caim plushie
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Oct 26, 2017 05:49
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DeathSandwich posted:I would love to see a new Yoko Taro game that takes place in the gap between Drakenguard E and NieR 1 that documents all the extra dimensional magical X-Com poo poo that happens before Project Gestalt gets underway. Jake Solomon's Taro Yoko's XCOM. I'm not sure whether to be excited or mortified.
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Oct 26, 2017 05:53
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Annointed posted:Jake Solomon's Taro Yoko's XCOM. I'm not sure whether to be excited or mortified. Well, at least the game screwing you over and killing your favorite soldiers would actually be a gameplay feature instead of Jake not fixing his game.
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Oct 26, 2017 06:14
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Verant posted:Didn't help that Shadowlord threw a wrench into when he said "hell with this" and just kidnapped Yonah. To be fair Shadowlord never wanted to be there
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Oct 26, 2017 06:22
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Zoe posted:Yeah it was laid on too thick to do anything but roll your eyes after awhile. And I'm sorry but it's kind of on the people who have the information necessary for everything to not be hosed to actually take the ten minutes required to relay that information, I just never could get on board with 'oh so this guy that was deliberately kept in the dark was the real monster all along!!' 
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Oct 26, 2017 07:21
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Momomo posted:Yeah, the way the game tried really hard to make you feel bad about the shades just didn't do it for me a lot of the time since they laid it on so thick. At one point someone literally says "You're the real monsters!" when you do your mass murder of the Aerie, and I couldn't help but roll my eyes. Then there was that time you literally kill babies (who were all in a pile outside the ballroom door so there'd be a scene with Nier killing a bunch of babies) and by the end I just couldn't feel anything for them. To me the real twist isn’t ”Shades are human” but rather ”Kainé knows” because it immediately makes her character a lot more complex.
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Oct 26, 2017 07:58
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Hunt11 posted:The Gestalt plan was a lovely and desperate plan which turned out to be massively flawed. Project Gestalt was pretty much boned from the moment the Replicants became sapient and were capable of rejecting Shades (see Yonah and Kaine). Nier just happened to be the catalyst for its destruction.
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Oct 26, 2017 11:23
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Come to think of it, YoRHa are clearly cybernetic organisms, but what about the old Replicant models? They seemed to basically be flesh and blood, or at least minimally metal.
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Oct 26, 2017 13:39
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cirus posted:Project Gestalt was pretty much boned from the moment the Replicants became sapient and were capable of rejecting Shades (see Yonah and Kaine). Nier just happened to be the catalyst for its destruction. I'm pretty sure Project Gesalt was boned from the moment someone decided to stick Albert Wesker in a talking book that would, at some point, have to convince someone to do something. Dude couldn't ask you to pass the salt without making it sound heroic to refuse him.
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Oct 26, 2017 13:44
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Kavak posted:Come to think of it, YoRHa are clearly cybernetic organisms, but what about the old Replicant models? They seemed to basically be flesh and blood, or at least minimally metal. I mean replicants and androids were around at the same time and were distinctly different. They're just magic clones.
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Oct 26, 2017 13:48
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Okay, now I finally get it. Thank you!
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Oct 26, 2017 14:14
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The Yoko Taroyist of twists: Androids' biological components are human, so the humans survived in a way whoops they're all infected and dead!
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Oct 26, 2017 15:15
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Chokes McGee posted:The Yoko Taroyist of twists: Androids' biological components are human, so the humans survived in a way whoops they're all infected and dead! Oh my god, the humans are the Logic Virus!
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Oct 26, 2017 15:26
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Spoilers: The logic virus is the result of one of the androids getting bored of 6O's cat pictures and downloading the ancient human game Drakengard onto the bunker server.
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Oct 26, 2017 16:18
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For any other game I would be 100% certain you're joking rather than just 99%. This is some Poe's Law poo poo.
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Oct 26, 2017 17:15
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Well I chose a hell of a time to catch up to the thread.
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Oct 26, 2017 17:37
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Twist: The "aliens" were humans who had gone off to colonize elsewhere, and when they came back the androids didn't recognize them anymore. The machines were an attempt for them to take their own planet back, and that went sideways too.
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Oct 26, 2017 17:39
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AndwhatIseeisme posted:Spoilers: The logic virus is the result of one of the androids getting bored of 6O's cat pictures and downloading the ancient human game Drakengard onto the bunker server. Close, it's actually a 'logic' virus, because it's just a full unredacted history textbook. Everyone who knows the past logically concludes they're better off dead. Some people are generous enough to help others before they go out themselves.
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Oct 26, 2017 17:40
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Bruceski posted:Twist: The "aliens" were humans who had gone off to colonize elsewhere, and when they came back the androids didn't recognize them anymore. The machines were an attempt for them to take their own planet back, and that went sideways too. so basically the humans evolved into giant penises. probably pretty fitting in a taro yoko universe.
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Oct 26, 2017 18:49
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AndwhatIseeisme posted:Spoilers: The logic virus is the result of one of the androids getting bored of 6O's cat pictures and downloading the ancient human game Drakengard onto the bunker server. it's just a constant broadcast of DRAKENGARD! over their radio feeds
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Oct 26, 2017 19:13
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Report: Humorous.
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Oct 26, 2017 19:30
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 Episode CVI: Please State Your Intentions .jpg) Previously on NieR: Automata, what one would be led to believe was the main character of the game, given she was featured in 95% of promotional material, loving died. Also eating it were the entire support staff as well as any and all redshirts in YoRHa’s forces along with their space base. Additionally, an alien megastructure popped up over the City Ruins. The only surviving member of YoRHa, 9S, was cast off a cliff after the world’s shortest lived blood rage vengeance attempt. Also A2 decided to participate in the plot after appearing all of eight minutes total beforehand. I think that’s everything... With that said, let’s begin the rest of NieR: Automata now that we’re finally past the game’s prologue.  .jpg)  Death confirmed. Data exchange engaged.  YoRHa unit 9S has completed repair and reconstruction of all damaged areas. Unit is ready for reactivation. YoRHa unit A2 also ready for reactivation. ...... Proposal: Illuminate surrounding area..jpg) No problems detected. Only one issue remains. We comprise the YoRHa support system. If the A2 and 9S units are operational, we are required to attend and support. Agreed. Displaying positions of units A2 and 9S..jpg) So 2B is 100% confirmed dead. 9S got wrecked from falling down that cliff but has been repaired and A2 is alright as well. So here’s something new for Route C. The remainder of Route C is not going to just be A2’s storyline. 9S still has plenty of plot left too. I mean, 9S is the lead protagonist of the game. What did you think 2B was the main character? Pfft. She’s died 2/3rds of the way through the plot and had like a quarter as much dialogue as 9S even when she was alive. .jpg) So we now get to pick whose storyline we want to follow next. The game doesn’t make it clear but this is not locking us into just A2 or 9S’s plotline. Each character has two chapters that we’re both eventually going to have to play through. Once a chapter is complete, we’ll get the choice of who to follow again. .jpg) I’ll be choosing who we follow. Democracy is a flawed system and I already know what’s best. We’ve already seen an entire second playthrough of the game as 9S and only played as A2 for all of 20 seconds, so we’re going to check up on the new playable character first. Let’s see what’s up with A2...  .jpg)  Number 2, go! I can handle— No! Number 4!.jpg) .jpg) Huh. Turns out androids can have bad dreams. Good to know. I really question what was going on with the original humans that designed android AI giving them all these not at all helpful traits like being able to get drunk and have nightmares or be able to go into a blood rage. Seems counterproductive to their original task of maintaining weird bio-clones and spectral manifestations of human souls. .jpg) Activation of unit A2 confirmed..jpg) Good morning, A2. ...... Music: City Ruins - Shade (Quiet) .jpg) Tactical Support Unit Pod 042. This Pod has been tasked with providing firing support for YoRHa unit A2. Tch. I didn’t ask for help. Affirmative. No request was received from unit A2. Rather, it was the final order from this Pod’s previous support assignment, unit 2B. Well, it’s unnecessary. YoRHa unit A2 lacks the authority to override this order. Whatever.So Pod 042 is now supporting A2. It has all the same functionality and Pod Programs equipped from before 2B died. A2 has also inherited all the levels, items and weapons 2B and 9S had access to earlier. Before we can go anywhere, A2 notices a certain change in the area. .jpg) Unknown. You’re pretty useless, you know that?.jpg) That superstructure that appeared during the title card is kinda large. It’s visible from all areas in the game. That central spire is located in the crater we explicitly avoided during 2B’s death march. We could go investigate that as A2. But she does not give the first poo poo about figuring out what the deal is with the ominous alien doom tower. In fact, figuring out what the hell A2 is doing with herself might be a point of contention... .jpg) Why the hell would I do that? In order to provide optimal support, Pods must be supplied with data relating to the activities of supported units. Not happening..jpg) So you may have noticed the taunt prompt given on the HUD in the last shot. Unlike 2B and 9S, who had the awkward flashing the Pod’s flashlight on and off to taunt enemies, A2 has a dedicated taunt function via holding the light attack button. .jpg) Taunting works exactly the same as before. Enemies receive and deal double damage when taunted. A2 has a different animation for all four weapon types as well as about two dozen voice clips being a cocky jerk to machines. So that’s fun. .jpg) It seems someone has repaired the bridge connecting the ruined mall to the rest of the City Ruins in the couple weeks since 9S got immediately owned on it in the last chapter. A2 cannot make it too far over it before Pod 042 pipes up again... Music: City Ruins – Shade (Medium) .jpg) What did I just say? If an attending support unit is not provided with data related to the activities of its target, it is programmed to automatically repeat the request every 30 seconds until such data is made available. Are you kidding me? Proposal: Unit A2 should state her intentions. Needlessly repeating conversations on the same topic is a waste of energy resources. You’re the one who keeps talking! Another special ability A2 has is a dope turbo dash that has her briefly glow red and glide along the ground in a way that reminds me of Zone of the Enders. Supposedly, attacking during the brief window where A2 is glowing results in a damage boost. But in practice, that’s a huge waste of time and I can’t say I’ve noticed greater damage output from attempting it. It looks cool though! Also, it’s been about 30 seconds since the last time Pod 042 chimed in, so... .jpg) Proposal: Unit A2 should state her intentions. drat it, stop! My intention is to beat the hell out of every god drat machine I can find! Is that enough for you!? Affirmative. Scanning and marking of nearby machine lifeforms complete. Goliath-class enemies detected in desert area. Proposal: Goliath-class enemies should be destroyed. Don’t tell me what to do. Pods are not authorized to issue commands. Proposals are merely recommendations based on data provided by unit A2. Proposal: Unit A2 should state updated intentions in order to secure more usable data. SHUT... THE HELL... UP. Negative. This Pod is engaging in activity based on the final order of unit 2B. YoRHa unit A2 lacks the authority to issue commands. Look, just stay out of my way. Affirmative..jpg) OK. We’ve now got an actual goal for A2: Go to the desert and kill some machines. If you were thinking A2 was privy to some secret conspiracy behind YoRHa or withholding key information based on her brief encounter back in Route A/B... Nope! A2 is just a really strong murder hobo that really loving hates machines and told YoRHa to go eat a dick at some point in the past. .jpg) We’ll learn about A2’s past eventually. But she’s mostly just in a really bad mood and likes murdering machine lifeforms. There wasn’t any special reason she killed the Forest King. She just heard the machines had some kind of king and gently caress that guy. Gonna stab him in the face, even if he’s some weird baby machine. .jpg) We could just hop into the nearest Access Point and teleport to the Desert Zone. But ehh... let’s walk there. The City Ruins has become a much more dangerous place with more advanced machines all over the place (Stubbies and even standard Small Bipeds are fairly rare now.) Also a few new ones have cropped up. Like those tall boys from the desert have finally gotten some guns and are out for revenge. There’s also one other point of interest that will always be present in the City Ruins for the remainder of Route C... Music: Emil's Shop Theme (Vocal) .jpg) Proposal: Use Pod fire to force him to stop..jpg) .jpg) Pod 042, why do you gotta do poor Emil like that? He’s the last living human... kinda. Try to be a bit more respectful. Sheesh. Music: Emil's Shop Theme (Instrumental) .jpg)  You could’ve just asked me to stop, you know? Hey... You’re A2, aren’t you? It must be fate that we ran into each other. ...And since you’re here, you might as well buy something!.jpg) I’m not sure how Emil knows A2, other than possibly by reputation. I never did it back in Route B, but if we had talked to Emil there apparently he can just brain scan androids remotely and look up who they are immediately. Not going to ask where Emil got that ability or a database of all existing androids. He’s been around for several millennia now. I doubt he’d even remember if we asked. Emil’s shop (at least this version of it) has the same overpriced and bloated plug-in chips. We’ll need to hit up a specific version of Emil’s store later in order to grab a couple of lingering weapons for our collection. But that can wait for another day. .jpg) A noteworthy bit about Route C is that prices for common goods have again inflated a bit. Whatever. We’re pretty well stocked for the remainder of the game at this point. What’s more important is the selling price for rare goods has also ballooned tremendously. Particularly, Machine Cores are now selling for 22,500 G and since I’ve yet to sell a single one of them thus far, we’re now sitting on 742,500 G worth of ‘em for a rainy day. That’s not quite enough funds to keep us set for the rest of the game. But it’s close. .jpg) ...What was that? You want to know where I live? No. Well, I live deep, deep underground. Picture something deep, then go DEEPER! Feel free to visit me anytime you want! Emil isn’t just rambling about weird poo poo there. We actually can go find his home. It’s located in a fairly large optional area. We’ll check that out eventually. It might be connected to a sidequest we are in no way prepared to undertake yet. Music: Memories of Dust (Quiet) .jpg) Checking in on the Top Boy aside, let’s continue towards the Desert Zone. Jackass’s desert outpost is still up and running. In fact, Jackass is still hanging out here. Let’s see what she has to say to A2. .jpg)  ...... ...Never mind. Just be careful out there, yeah? Don’t really feel like talking..jpg) .jpg) Alright then. Jackass isn’t feeling very chatty. That’s fine. We’ll see more of her later. The desert supply trader is willing to do business with A2. If you’re wondering what happens if A2 were to travel to the Resistance Camp, everyone there just goes “who the heck are you...?” and won’t do business with her. Anemone is also AWOL at the moment so no YoRHa Stage Play cast reunion yet. .jpg) The Desert/City Ruins buffer zone hasn’t changed much other than having far more Facade cosplayer enemies. Sadly, all of the creepy tall boy machines that silently stared angrily at passing androids have vanished from the land. Music: Memories of Dust (Vocal) .jpg) On to the Desert Zone proper. This area is currently all but abandoned. So our only course of action is to head west until we reach the spot designated by Pod 042. .jpg) As we approach the area, a sandstorm kicks up along with a trio of Goliath Bipeds erupting from the ground. .jpg) .jpg) These Goliaths are slightly different from the earlier ones we’ve faced in one key way: they can spontaneously flip their configuration to go from powerful arms to powerful legs versions. They’re no longer locked to one or the other. Leg Day non-skipper Goliaths gain innate electrical damage to their powerful robot thighs. .jpg) .jpg) But beyond that, they’re exactly the same as the other three or four dozen Goliath Bipeds we’ve trashed up to this point. Other than the funky dash and the dedicated Taunt command, A2 plays identically to 2B. Y/Triangle is once more a heavy attack with a second equipped weapon in a loadout. A2 does have one other key difference combat wise. But we’ll be given a .jpg) Negative. Enemy machines remain in the area. .jpg) Music: ENDS .jpg) .jpg) What the hell is that!?.jpg) Tune in next time as A2 takes on bar none the absolute worst boss fight in the entire game!    Video: Episode 106 Highlight Reel (A2 has had like one line prior to this. You should probably listen to her talk.)   Goliath Biped Concept Art - These poor guys are just the mid-boss jobbers of gameplay at this point. The Dark Id fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Oct 26, 2017 |
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