Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«292 »
  • Post
  • Reply
doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013


I donít think Rick and Morty is meant to be a character study. In general, I think itís been at its weakest when it tries to be one.

Iíve been enjoying that this season has moved away from the formula of ĎRick and (mostly Morty) have an adventure and (some other part of the family) has a B plot. I donít think we need a pile of Looney Tunes that explores the dark consequences of Wile E CoyoteĎs murderous traps or Bugs Bunnyís trail of destruction. I donít need Rick and Morty to have stakes or continuity. Weíre a wandering gaze in a multiverse where everything can and has happened.

I think the show is at its strongest when it is a festival of ideas and jokes.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012



Pickle Rick is a good episode.

No Luck Needed
Mar 18, 2015


Bust Rodd posted:

Also I dunno if you two are both on Solar Opposites but that show looks really cool too!

where is the thread for me to poo poo on this?

funny, sure

character development, lacking to none

a new study bible!
Feb 1, 2009



BIG DICK NICK
A Philadelphia Legend
Fly Eagles Fly



I think trying to analyze this show on a deeper level is stupid and runs counter to the messaging it presents on a near-weekly basis. Like yeah, authorial intent doesn't matter, but the show regularly antagonizes the wannabe AV Club writers who do so.

Oberst
May 24, 2010

guh guh guh go clemson


Eiba posted:

The issue isn't that Rick is mean or the show is dark. Obviously Rick is an rear end in a top hat- that's the premise. He's pretty horrible, and has been from the start.

The issue is that the joke, "he's horrible but he's so smart he can just keep doubling down until he gets what he wants," gets old after a while. And then it gets depressing.

In season one when Rick's carelessness destroys the world but he just nopes off into another dimension, traumatizing Morty but leaving himself just fine, it's funny in part because Rick faces no consequences. It's unexpectedly amoral. He learns no lesson and faces no consequences. That's not how fiction typically works. It's a dark, novel twist, and legitimately funny in its presentation.

But where do you go from there? The intervening seasons have flirted with the idea that Rick will face consequences, only to dial it back in more and more outlandish ways as the central premise remains "Rick unexpectedly faces no consequences, no matter how bad he fucks up or how bad things look."

Honestly, there's a lot to like about this episode, and I was laughing through most of it. The elaborate happy life Morty had after meeting that girl, and all the fakeouts followed by Jerry accidentally undoing it all, was an amazing gag. But I'm no longer amused by the amoral "twist" that Rick wins by doubling down. It's just kind of depressingly expected now.

Imagine if people with power could get away with stuff. Sure that's not how fiction works, so it's funny when it happens in a cartoony fictional world. For a while. But when it sinks in and is no longer startling, there's plenty of precedent for it in the real world, and it's just kind of grim.


I'd like to emphasize that this is my personal reaction. The zany shenanigans are as spot on as ever, so if that's all your here for, have fun. My goal this post is mainly just to explain why this episode didn't land for me, as some folks have been getting defensive about the idea of not liking that Rick is an rear end in a top hat, and there's a bit more to it than just that.

grate deceiver posted:

drat dude, I think you've cracked the code

Ironslave
Aug 8, 2006

Corpse runner


No Luck Needed posted:

where is the thread for me to poo poo on this?

funny, sure

character development, lacking to none

I've found a lot of people I've talked to who don't like what Rick and Morty has been being end up loving Solar Opposites, myself included. In my case, it's because at no point has Solar Opposites ever asked or expected us to empathize with any of the main cast, instead it treats them as vehicles for gags and wacky situations. Rick and Morty does both inconsistently, and trying to reconcile them together understandably leaves a bad taste in some people's mouths even if they're capable of appreciating these individual episodes in a vacuum.

Season 1 of Rick and Morty unexpectedly brought in significant continuity to make a point about life and happiness (in Interdimensional Cable) and further emphasized this in the finale when Morty had the option to be free of Rick but chose to stick with him out of both pity and love, and which was reciprocated and then reinforced in the first episode of season 2. I cannot imagine episodes like that being made in season 4, and if they were they'd feel incredibly insincere by this point.

Oberst
May 24, 2010

guh guh guh go clemson


a new study bible! posted:

I think trying to analyze this show on a deeper level is stupid and runs counter to the messaging it presents on a near-weekly basis. Like yeah, authorial intent doesn't matter, but the show regularly antagonizes the wannabe AV Club writers who do so.

Please dont engage with mentally ill people who are so emotionally affected by the burping space grandpa scifi reference show that they write page long screeds about it

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

a new study bible!
Feb 1, 2009



BIG DICK NICK
A Philadelphia Legend
Fly Eagles Fly



I will try, but I too am mentally ill.

Oberst
May 24, 2010

guh guh guh go clemson


Wubba lubba dub dub!

doingitwrong
Jul 27, 2013


The YouTube algorithm decided this was the right moment to show me this discussion playing out among the creators 2 years ago. https://youtu.be/RecdrgB-Odc

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011





Muldoon

I'm personally a fan of Rick simultaneously saying things like "Futurama already did this, I don't copy ideas because I'm not a hack" and "that's right, Morty I loving Prestiged you." I hope it never gets addressed.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

Why god?



Grimey Drawer

Zulily Zoetrope posted:

I'm personally a fan of Rick simultaneously saying things like "Futurama already did this, I don't copy ideas because I'm not a hack" and "that's right, Morty I loving Prestiged you." I hope it never gets addressed.

Morty: Rick, is-is this a "Saw" thing? Are you seriously "Saw"-ing the Vindicators?
Rick: Morty I'm a drunk, not a hack.
Drunk Rick: If you break the rules, lose the game or try to leave, you will die. Like in [burp] "Sawwww".

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

TURDS BOD


Zulily Zoetrope posted:

I'm personally a fan of Rick simultaneously saying things like "Futurama already did this, I don't copy ideas because I'm not a hack" and "that's right, Morty I loving Prestiged you." I hope it never gets addressed.

this same gag is the best part of the vindicators. Rick is a hack when he is drunk, but is also fortunately not afraid to stick up for the Palestinian refugees! its how you know hes a good person

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009

A lucky bird.


sticklefifer posted:

Something hit me about the actual design of the controller, and how it really highlights a major character trait of both Rick and Morty in this episode: How careless Rick is as an inventor, and how careless Morty is when he's allowed to get what he wants.
Quoting for truth because godsdamn are there some pitfalls with any save/load mechanic.

Do modern games let you quick save after you die? I definitely managed to do that once with Half-Life back in the day. Fortunately the game kept your last two quick save.

Then there's the friend who, after a spectacular fuckup in GTA IV, went back to the menu in a rage and accidentally deleted his save instead of loading it.

No Luck Needed
Mar 18, 2015


Ironslave posted:

I've found a lot of people I've talked to who don't like what Rick and Morty has been being end up loving Solar Opposites, myself included. In my case, it's because at no point has Solar Opposites ever asked or expected us to empathize with any of the main cast, instead it treats them as vehicles for gags and wacky situations. Rick and Morty does both inconsistently, and trying to reconcile them together understandably leaves a bad taste in some people's mouths even if they're capable of appreciating these individual episodes in a vacuum.

Season 1 of Rick and Morty unexpectedly brought in significant continuity to make a point about life and happiness (in Interdimensional Cable) and further emphasized this in the finale when Morty had the option to be free of Rick but chose to stick with him out of both pity and love, and which was reciprocated and then reinforced in the first episode of season 2. I cannot imagine episodes like that being made in season 4, and if they were they'd feel incredibly insincere by this point.

good point, i guess i did forget to mention my favorite part was the "people in the wall"

but if the aliens are just vehicles for gags then I already got that with Roger the Alien

all the Dadders are holding out for a Klaus spin off

Space Cadet Omoly
Jan 15, 2014

yay


No Luck Needed posted:

all the Dadders are holding out for a Klaus spin off

What? No way! If Klaus gets a spin off they're going to have to replace him, and I'm sorry but Spunky Rooster and John Michael Heaton are no Klaus

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?


Mantis42 posted:

Actually it's good when Rick gets what he wants. Everytime a new episode airs I put on my pickle Rick shirt and cheer on Rick when he succeeds. Also, when Morty complains or Summer is on screen I boo until we're back to Rick time.

What are your opinions on skylar white

BrotherJayne
Nov 27, 2019

Cum Catapultae Proscriptae Erunt Tum Soli Proscripti Catapultas Habebunt


Milo and POTUS posted:

What are your opinions on skylar white

MEAN WOMAN BAD

MAKES FUN STOP

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010



Milo and POTUS posted:

What are your opinions on skylar white

It was epic when she hosed Ted.

BrotherJayne
Nov 27, 2019

Cum Catapultae Proscriptae Erunt Tum Soli Proscripti Catapultas Habebunt


Arven posted:

My wife just pointed out that the "real" Rick (and any body he is inhabiting) is the only one that drools. I love the attention to detail in this show.

Wait.

Hasn't Rick quit drooling?

vseslav.botkin
Feb 18, 2007
Professor

I just checked and both the Rick who explains the Prestige-ing and the Rick after that are drooling a lot, so I don't think that tracks.

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010



Isn't that the same Rick? He goes through the portal with Morty doesn't he?

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

There are probably close enough Ricks that could count as the Rick we know. Much the same way that it didn't really matter which Jerry you got from the Jerry day care. The further you get in the multiverse, the more different the Ricks get.

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010



Possibly it was a fake Rick who knew to drool in order to fool Real Morty.

vseslav.botkin
Feb 18, 2007
Professor

Don't think so, they make a point of both the Ricks finishing their Capri Sun and throwing it away.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

Clarke has more acting talent in her brows than most other actors, including herself, have in their entire body.



The conceit of the parallel universes in the show is "the writers do whatever the gently caress they want as long as the it works for the episode", the whole mythology of evil morty and the citadel and that crap doesn't really work with the way the universe is structured in episodes such as this one as the cronenberg one, if there is always a universe so similar that it contains a rick who is exactly the same only he went zig instead of zag in his last decision then there isn't just one rick c-137 there are countless trillions of them and our Rick can't possibly be unique, this is part of why we get the 'we only get to do this once or twice' joke in the cronenberg episode, it's not that you can't say "these are my in-universe rules", it's just that it's very gimmicky and strips narratives from consequence if you do it too much, from a sci-fi cannonical perspective who gives a poo poo, but pulling from the whole 'oh look we just have another morty who didn't do the stupid thing you saw him doing in the last scene, cause multiverse' will only work well.. a few dozen times.

Daikloktos
Jan 1, 2020



emanresu tnuocca posted:

the whole mythology of evil morty and the citadel and that crap doesn't really work with the way the universe is structured in episodes such as this one as the cronenberg one, if there is always a universe so similar that it contains a rick who is exactly the same only he went zig instead of zag in his last decision then there isn't just one rick c-137 there are countless trillions of them and our Rick can't possibly be unique, this is part of why we get the 'we only get to do this once or twice' joke in the cronenberg episode
I think you guys missed the key line where Rick's like "Time Crystals are a bitch and a half". It's based off the Season 2 opener and selecting from intentionally fractured timelines (Rick having implicitly gotten better working with them without the law bubbling in on him). The same principle as the interdimensional self-replacement Rick uses to get out of Cronenberging everyone or the squirrels, but not the same mechanic; those weren't like Morty C-856 getting melted.

This is also why Rick's able to "merge" the timelines, which doesn't seem to be a concept that applies to the differing dimensions which, as you say, are presented as much more discrete than continuous many-world quantum forking.

Daikloktos fucked around with this message at 07:30 on May 20, 2020

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

One Potato to rule them all,
One Potato to find them,
One Potato to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them.




Bread Liar

vseslav.botkin posted:

I just checked and both the Rick who explains the Prestige-ing and the Rick after that are drooling a lot, so I don't think that tracks.

So the real Rick and Beth have finally gotten back from their space adventures?

No wonder he made the lame vat of acid at the start of the episode, he was out of practice doing a Morty adventure.

Typical
Mar 19, 2007

One day, I will have
awesome line quality.
Then I'll be cool.

Bust Rodd posted:


Typical, if I may ask, are the mind control alien mouth sack considered a prop that you had to design, or are alien and monster designs a different department? Or are guns and gadgets and ships a separate department completely from aliens and monsters?

Also I dunno if you two are both on Solar Opposites but that show looks really cool too!

those were a character design. so the character designers took care of coming up with the little creatures and then sticking them to every ones face. I did the guns and gadgets that the aliens hold. and Mutata and I collaborated on the spaceships. I did also end up working on solar opposites. but I only made a few 3d models.

Here are a few things from Glorzo that I drew'



Guns for the glorzo gaurd



2d versions of the missile, which mutata then madea 3d model of



2d versions of the one of the glorzo spaceship


close up of ricks ufo towing the missle.


stages of the giant lazer cannon opening from ricks ship.

I have to add this next line as per adult swims request
Property of Adult Swim. Any press or reposting requests must be directed to Adult Swim for approval

Typical fucked around with this message at 08:48 on May 20, 2020

Gravitas Shortfall
Jul 17, 2007

Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.


Typical posted:

those were a character design. so the character designers took care of coming up with the little creatures and then sticking them to every ones face. I did the guns and gadgets that the aliens hold. and Mutata and I collaborated on the spaceships. I did also end up working on solar opposites. but I only made a few 3d models.

Here are a few things from Glorzo that I drew'



Guns for the glorzo gaurd



2d versions of the missile, which mutata then madea 3d model of



2d versions of the one of the glorzo spaceship


close up of ricks ufo towing the missle.

I have to add this next line as per adult swims request
Property of Adult Swim. Any press or reposting requests must be directed to Adult Swim for approval

Those are awesome, I really like how all the tech echoes the facehugger theme, mechanical structures with organic bits wrapped around them like parasites.

Skippy McPants
Mar 19, 2009



Typical posted:


2d versions of the missile, which mutata then madea 3d model of

That's just a dick. You made a dick-missile.

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011





Muldoon

Well, yes, it's a facehugger missile.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

Skippy McPants posted:

That's just a dick. You made a dick-missile.

They specifically said it was a dick missile last week.

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005


emanresu tnuocca posted:

The conceit of the parallel universes in the show is "the writers do whatever the gently caress they want as long as the it works for the episode", the whole mythology of evil morty and the citadel and that crap doesn't really work with the way the universe is structured in episodes such as this one as the cronenberg one, if there is always a universe so similar that it contains a rick who is exactly the same only he went zig instead of zag in his last decision then there isn't just one rick c-137 there are countless trillions of them and our Rick can't possibly be unique, this is part of why we get the 'we only get to do this once or twice' joke in the cronenberg episode, it's not that you can't say "these are my in-universe rules", it's just that it's very gimmicky and strips narratives from consequence if you do it too much, from a sci-fi cannonical perspective who gives a poo poo, but pulling from the whole 'oh look we just have another morty who didn't do the stupid thing you saw him doing in the last scene, cause multiverse' will only work well.. a few dozen times.

I dunno it keeps working for me maybe because I realize this is a childrens cartoon show

SunshineDanceParty
Feb 7, 2006

That man has the largest penis I have ever seen. I actually don't even know if he has mumps, forgot to look. I was distracted - by the largest penis I have ever seen


emanresu tnuocca posted:

The conceit of the parallel universes in the show is "the writers do whatever the gently caress they want as long as the it works for the episode", the whole mythology of evil morty and the citadel and that crap doesn't really work with the way the universe is structured in episodes such as this one as the cronenberg one, if there is always a universe so similar that it contains a rick who is exactly the same only he went zig instead of zag in his last decision then there isn't just one rick c-137 there are countless trillions of them and our Rick can't possibly be unique, this is part of why we get the 'we only get to do this once or twice' joke in the cronenberg episode, it's not that you can't say "these are my in-universe rules", it's just that it's very gimmicky and strips narratives from consequence if you do it too much, from a sci-fi cannonical perspective who gives a poo poo, but pulling from the whole 'oh look we just have another morty who didn't do the stupid thing you saw him doing in the last scene, cause multiverse' will only work well.. a few dozen times.

You really just need to accept that the writers don't care as much about consistency and world building as some fans do.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

TURDS BOD


Typical posted:

Property of Adult Swim. Any press or reposting requests must be directed to Adult Swim for approval

drat dude thatís really neat, thanks for sharing! You guys mustíve been drawing your asses off this season every episode just seems filled to bursting with characters and gadgets. It must be a relief to see the script and crank out a simpler design like Mortyís rewinder remote in like 20 minutes.

Gravitas Shortfall posted:

Those are awesome, I really like how all the tech echoes the facehugger theme, mechanical structures with organic bits wrapped around them like parasites.

Yeah itís really crazy that for every alien race you have to try and find ways to reflect their society or culture through their guns and armor and even the way their cities look. Itís like you guys have to design and populate an entire dungeons and dragons campaign every episode thatís loving nuts!

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

Zulily Zoetrope posted:

I'm personally a fan of Rick simultaneously saying things like "Futurama already did this, I don't copy ideas because I'm not a hack" and "that's right, Morty I loving Prestiged you." I hope it never gets addressed.

I mean, he also has a box literally labeled "TIME TRAVEL STUFF" in the garage while constantly bashing time travel as a plot device.

Episodes like this kind of make me see where Evil Morty could come from, and why he was never really on our Rick's radar. Disenfranchised current Morty + time travel stuff + knowledge of the Citadel + increasingly nihilistic view of all other Ricks and Mortys. Obviously the Story Train episode is a signpost of "we'll only get to this stuff if we feel like it someday" but that doesn't mean there isn't plenty to draw from if they decide to.

Side note: Anyone else notice that the plane crash victims were dressed like the main South Park cast?

Lunatic Sledge
Jun 8, 2013

your new best friend


doingitwrong posted:

I donít think Rick and Morty is meant to be a character study. In general, I think itís been at its weakest when it tries to be one.

Iíve been enjoying that this season has moved away from the formula of ĎRick and (mostly Morty) have an adventure and (some other part of the family) has a B plot. I donít think we need a pile of Looney Tunes that explores the dark consequences of Wile E CoyoteĎs murderous traps or Bugs Bunnyís trail of destruction. I donít need Rick and Morty to have stakes or continuity. Weíre a wandering gaze in a multiverse where everything can and has happened.

I think the show is at its strongest when it is a festival of ideas and jokes.

this is mostly just me spewing incidental trivia but bugs bunny's character was actually the impetus for a lot of new character introductions

see, bugs bunny clowning on a hunter was funny at first, but after X number of cartoons it was feared the audience might start sympathizing with an increasingly oblivious Elmer Fudd, and start to dislike Bugs (who won every time, natch)

so a more dangerous and more antagonistic foe was introduced in Yosemite Sam; rinse and repeat (with a few crossovers where Daffy Duck helps prop Bugs up as the lesser of two comedic evils) and as Yosemite started to lose his bite, they began rolling out even higher stakes and less rational opponents for Bugs to bounce off, like the Tazmanian Devil, Marvin the Martian, Witch Hazel, etc

Bugs Bunny looking like too much of an rear end in a top hat was absolutely an issue that had to be worked with and written around

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Lunatic Sledge posted:

this is mostly just me spewing incidental trivia but bugs bunny's character was actually the impetus for a lot of new character introductions

see, bugs bunny clowning on a hunter was funny at first, but after X number of cartoons it was feared the audience might start sympathizing with an increasingly oblivious Elmer Fudd, and start to dislike Bugs (who won every time, natch)

so a more dangerous and more antagonistic foe was introduced in Yosemite Sam; rinse and repeat (with a few crossovers where Daffy Duck helps prop Bugs up as the lesser of two comedic evils) and as Yosemite started to lose his bite, they began rolling out even higher stakes and less rational opponents for Bugs to bounce off, like the Tazmanian Devil, Marvin the Martian, Witch Hazel, etc

Bugs Bunny looking like too much of an rear end in a top hat was absolutely an issue that had to be worked with and written around

drat this is hella interesting. We watched Space Jam over the weekend I was talking about how I always preferred Daffy because he was more manic and also got his comeuppance a lot more regularly, whereas Bugs was always super obnoxious but seemed to easily waltz over everyone

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

Doltos posted:

I dunno it keeps working for me maybe because I realize this is a childrens cartoon show

What childrens show are you talking about? This is the thread for the adult content cartoon show Rick and Morty.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«292 »