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precision
May 7, 2006

Would you like to challenge?


maskenfreiheit posted:

Kim getting addicted to opiates and spiraling into drug abuse due to her car crash would be an interesting season arc.

Not really.

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moist turtleneck
Jul 17, 2003

Represent.

Dinosaur Gum

Kim develops a mental illness where she will only wear pajama pants and watch Blockbuster vidyas

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

I ain't got time to bleed.

moist turtleneck posted:

Kim develops a mental illness where she will only wear pajama pants and watch Blockbuster vidyas

In all seriousness they've weaved it into her character for a while now but in particular in that last episode with her discussion about wanting to be a heroic movie lawyer righting wrongs and such makes me think what's actually going to happen with Kim is she's going to stop working for banks and oil companies and such, which haven't been bad people or anything just ultimately unfulfilling, and move into some kind of law where she can help people. I doubt she's going to become a public defender, but she might start taking on cases where people have screwed over towns or buildings or something.

I guess we'll see but I have a strong feeling she's not going to quit law, but she's going to take on a different kind of law.

BRAKE FOR MOOSE
Jun 6, 2001

It Could Save Your Life
HUNDREDS OF COLLISIONS


Blazing Ownager posted:

In all seriousness they've weaved it into her character for a while now but in particular in that last episode with her discussion about wanting to be a heroic movie lawyer righting wrongs and such makes me think what's actually going to happen with Kim is she's going to stop working for banks and oil companies and such, which haven't been bad people or anything just ultimately unfulfilling, and move into some kind of law where she can help people. I doubt she's going to become a public defender, but she might start taking on cases where people have screwed over towns or buildings or something.

I guess we'll see but I have a strong feeling she's not going to quit law, but she's going to take on a different kind of law.

The last two seasons have been hurtling towards one of two outcomes:

1) Jimmy inadvertently destroys Kim via some boneheaded scheme that catches her in the crossfire
2) Kim sees the writing on the wall and bails on Jimmy when he makes a turn into Saul Goodman territory

Chuck has been very, very obviously foreshadowing Option #1. Who knows where this is going to go, particularly since it's clear Vince and Co. like to keep a million options open until they sit down to write, but it's definitely been the clear intention of the writers' room to get people thinking that Jimmy is going to ruin Kim somehow.

ditty bout my clitty
May 28, 2011


Fun Shoe

moist turtleneck posted:

Kim develops a mental illness where she will only wear pajama pants and watch Blockbuster vidyas

She claws her eyes out and jumps out of a window when blockbuster goes blockbuster

Doorknob Slobber
Sep 10, 2006





kim is a workaholic it isn't much a stretch that she might transfer that addiction to something else if deprived of it

moist turtleneck
Jul 17, 2003

Represent.

Dinosaur Gum

I like how they led up to her sleep driving in an episode before where they showed her "normal' day

My sister did the same thing and crashed hard into a median six months into a job

Pedro De Heredia
May 30, 2006


Nail Rat posted:

How in the world would seeing the Good Samaritan shot have told you anything new about who anyone is? We know what the Salamancas are, and if we didn't, the fact they killed that guy tells us.

Maybe that's why they should have plotted this in a completely different way, if it wasn't going to tell us anything new.

When Todd kills the kid in the Breaking Bad episode, it's impactful for a number of reasons, one of which is that until now, we did not knowTodd was capable of doing something like that. It's a big deal. It causes a real dilemma. The show has also established Jesse's relationship with kids enough that it's meaningful. (It's also a little manipulative, but whatever).


quote:

The real dramatic beat in that sequence of events is Mike's anger/remorse at being told the guy was killed. That would have LESS dramatic impact if you saw it happen and then you saw him being told about it. We all knew what was going to happen to the guy anyhow, but when it's confirmed, we get to see Mike's reaction straight away.

I am aware that is the dramatic beat. I know what they're trying to do. I am saying that, in the long run, it does not work. It does not work because we know nothing about this person. He means nothing to the audience. It doesn't traumatize Mike. It doesn't change him. It doesn't even really endanger him. It is just a plot device. It's only function is to keep 'things' happening. It only works as a narrative drive, but the work is not done to make it work dramatically.

Pedro De Heredia
May 30, 2006


BiggerBoat posted:

I disagree with most of this post in general but I think the "lack of stakes" largely stems from the fact that we know certain characters live and die and also already know where they wind up.

This is not really true for a number of reasons.


First, Breaking Bad already showed that you can scare the poo poo out of audiences even when they know that there is no real chance that some of these characters will die. Everyone knows Walt isn't going to just die, and for the most part, neither is Jesse. What creates the tension is putting a character in a situation where the audience realizes that any way out of it is going to cost the character very dearly.

Second, the show successfully wrings tension out of Jimmy's story, even though we know where he'll end up. Because there are dramatic arcs (sometimes botched) and there are clear conflicts, between characters who have personalities, points of views, arguments to make, etc. There are four well defined characters in that storyline, it all works well.

Third, it's true that we know where the characters wind up. But what we didn't know, until the show, was where they started. And that's the problem with the cartel story, they decided to start some of these characters in weird places. The Mike we see on this show is a kind of bad guy, but with a code. The Mike on Breaking Bad is... a kind of bad guy, but with a code. They're not that different. They decided to make a prequel version of Mike that gives them almost no room to actually give him an arc. It's utterly bizarre. They seem to be doing basically the same with Gus.

The entire Mike side of the story would have been infinitely better if they made his backstory (the whole thing with him killing his son's killers) his actual story. It's bizarre too because that kind of thing is like, the perfect story for these writers, but they just relegated it to a single episode of backstory. Just insane.

BRAKE FOR MOOSE
Jun 6, 2001

It Could Save Your Life
HUNDREDS OF COLLISIONS


I don't think the problem is that there's limited room for a character development arc with Mike. You have a ton of latitude with Jimmy, you can build the show around that. Mike can be Mike. The problem is that they are writing as if Mike is undergoing a transformation, even though he isn't, and they're taking their sweet-rear end time with these long artistic shots of Mike being Mike, when what that part of the show really needs is a plot-driven storyline. They've tried to make this a character drama through and through and it isn't really working; the two major characters have really just been spinning in place the whole season.

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

I ain't got time to bleed.

socialsecurity posted:

Saul literally suggested/tried to facilitate the assassination of several people over the series.

He very much had a vibe of "I am suggesting this, because this is how my other criminal contacts do business, why... why are you acting so different and screwy?" most of the time.

The definition of monster gets blurry here. I mean Mike didn't suggest or facilitate but committed multiple murders, technically, in both series yet I'd not call him a monster the same way I would many of the people they dealt with.

ATP5G1
Jun 22, 2005


Fun Shoe

BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:

The problem is that they are writing as if Mike is undergoing a transformation, even though he isn't, and they're taking their sweet-rear end time with these long artistic shots of Mike being Mike, when what that part of the show really needs is a plot-driven storyline.

Jimmy used to be Slippin' Jimmy, and he's trying to get out of that life. Mike used to be a crooked cop, and he's trying to get out of that life. I'll give you that there's less room for Mike to go than Jimmy, but Mike isn't yet at the point where part of his job is being an assassin and an enforcer. By enforcer I don't mean situations where he just stands and looks threatening (i.e. baseball card guy), situations like the Cartel Pool Party where he's going there to kill people. Right now Mike will kill for personal reasons, but not for money.

I can see why you would think that's a less interesting arc, but I've really enjoyed watching Mike start doing the wrong thing for the right reasons and how it's led to him getting mixed up in the cartel's activities. Also, while it looks like Jimmy eventually turns himself into Saul Goodman, I don't think Mike will become Breaking Bad Mike through a similar "gently caress it" attitude. I guess "gently caress it" could be triggered by the eventual falling out between him and his daughter-in-law (perhaps she discovers his extra-legal activities?), but whether it's that or something more subtle I think he's going to be manipulated into that place.

precision
May 7, 2006

Would you like to challenge?


Blazing Ownager posted:

I guess we'll see but I have a strong feeling she's not going to quit law, but she's going to take on a different kind of law.

Kim becomes a state prosecutor right as Saul starts taking on shady clients, he successfully defends a guy who definitely killed an old woman or something, relationship tanks

Boom

Ingmar terdman
Jul 24, 2006



Kim is going to be a train conductor and sleep through the entire BB robbery.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006

THE CLAMPS!
or clamp like device




Mike's daughter in law doesn't like him because he got caught up in some super science scheme with Gus that ended up turning his grand daughter into Benjamin Button.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007


ATP5G1 posted:

Jimmy used to be Slippin' Jimmy, and he's trying to get out of that life. Mike used to be a crooked cop, and he's trying to get out of that life. I'll give you that there's less room for Mike to go than Jimmy, but Mike isn't yet at the point where part of his job is being an assassin and an enforcer. By enforcer I don't mean situations where he just stands and looks threatening (i.e. baseball card guy), situations like the Cartel Pool Party where he's going there to kill people. Right now Mike will kill for personal reasons, but not for money.

I can see why you would think that's a less interesting arc, but I've really enjoyed watching Mike start doing the wrong thing for the right reasons and how it's led to him getting mixed up in the cartel's activities. Also, while it looks like Jimmy eventually turns himself into Saul Goodman, I don't think Mike will become Breaking Bad Mike through a similar "gently caress it" attitude. I guess "gently caress it" could be triggered by the eventual falling out between him and his daughter-in-law (perhaps she discovers his extra-legal activities?), but whether it's that or something more subtle I think he's going to be manipulated into that place.

Yeah at some point Mike has to go from the guy who feels remorse at causing an innocent to get killed because of his own avarice, to a guy who has no problem justifying the murder of a kid to keep his criminal enterprise going. He's not there yet.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

"You are the best poster... do not let anyone say otherwise."


It's not that Mike's story couldn't be interesting, it's that the way it was done this season was just pretty uninteresting and boring.

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

I ain't got time to bleed.

I still love the way this these series look backward to build on things already established.

Things I noticed re-watching the first episode of Breaking Bad: Mesa Verde is Walt's bank, and Jesse talks about the "Cow House" a couple miles down the road which is where Walt rolls the barrel to after Hank dies.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017



There's a couple Saul scenes where he really feels like BCS Jimmy. Especially any time he has a conversation with someone while using his floor massage device.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006

THE CLAMPS!
or clamp like device




Blazing Ownager posted:

I still love the way this these series look backward to build on things already established.

Things I noticed re-watching the first episode of Breaking Bad: Mesa Verde is Walt's bank, and Jesse talks about the "Cow House" a couple miles down the road which is where Walt rolls the barrel to after Hank dies.

Technically it's just Mesa Credit Union. Though the Mesa is green.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

The tail...

The whole damned thing.

BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:

The problem is that they are writing as if Mike is undergoing a transformation, even though he isn't, and they're taking their sweet-rear end time with these long artistic shots of Mike being Mike, when what that part of the show really needs is a plot-driven storyline.

Mike is trying to sock enough money away for his daughter and his grandkid but has to operate outside of the lines since he's not a cop anymore and now he brushes up constantly against people he'd rather not do business with and is careful about who he trusts. But he HAS to trust someone. He's careful, patient, a man of his word, and methodical as he goes about achieving what he needs to.

His plot seemed pretty well explained and I enjoy the character a lot. I find his arc transformative in as much as it shows him beginning as an officer of the law to a person that has to operate outside of it, as criminal, and learning to use all the dirty tricks he learned and the contacts he'd made as a police officer.

He's trying to stay off the radar and in the shadows but realizes he needs to be "in the system" to some extent to launder the money he''s made.

Die Sexmonster!
Nov 30, 2005

You don't belong in this world!

Ingmar terdman posted:

Kim is going to be a train conductor and sleep through the entire BB robbery.

LMFAO

Cojawfee posted:

Technically it's just Mesa Credit Union. Though the Mesa is green.

The 2007 crash was rough on banks everywhere

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

RowboatMan: Freezing time is an old P.I. trick...


I think as close as I want this show to ever get to Walt (aside from it getting to the meeting point, as well as the aftermath) would be for Mesa Verde to mention some extremely successful scientific outfit called "Gray Matter", who are one of their biggest clients.

Pedro De Heredia
May 30, 2006


BiggerBoat posted:

His plot seemed pretty well explained and I enjoy the character a lot. I find his arc transformative in as much as it shows him beginning as an officer of the law to a person that has to operate outside of it, as criminal, and learning to use all the dirty tricks he learned and the contacts he'd made as a police officer.

No it doesn't. What are you talking about? He begins the show as a corrupt former cop who has just committed cold-blooded murder.

Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010



I love the cinematography porn that fills like 70% of this show, gently caress y'all

SeXReX
Jan 9, 2009

Freeze Mamma Jamma!!



Vegetable posted:

I love the cinematography porn that fills like 70% of this show, gently caress y'all

The chairstair dolly shot had me in stitches

Pharmaskittle
Dec 17, 2007

EVEN IN DEATH I STILL SWERVE



Vegetable posted:

I love the cinematography porn that fills like 70% of this show, gently caress y'all

Yeah I'm not an artsy guy but I really like the things they do on this show.

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sweetmercifulcrap
Jan 28, 2012


I love the cinematography too - it's a great example of how much it can make any scene interesting, though the extended scenes can be a bit frustrating when there's only ten episodes per year and the burn is extremely slow as it is. I find myself going "ok it's beautiful and all but the clock is ticking, let's get some plot progression."

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