Book Barn BOTM: The Conference of the Birds by Attar of Nishapur

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Book Barn BOTM: The Conference of the Birds by Attar of Nishapur

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Welcome goonlings to the Awful Book of the Month!
In this thread, we choose one work of ~~literature~~ absolute crap and read/discuss it over a month. If you have any suggestions of books, choose something that will be appreciated by many people, and has many avenues of discussion. We'd also appreciate if it were a work of ~~literature~~ complete drivel that is easily located from a local library or book shop, as opposed to ordering something second hand off the internet and missing out on a week's worth of reading. Better yet, books available on e-readers.

Resources:

Project Gutenberg - http://www.gutenberg.org

- A database of over 17000 books available online. If you can suggest books from here, that'd be the best.

SparkNotes - http://www.sparknotes.com/

- A very helpful Cliffnotes-esque site, but much better, in my opinion. If you happen to come in late and need to catch-up, you can get great character/chapter/plot summaries here.

:siren:

For recommendations on future material, suggestions on how to improve the club, or just a general rant, feel free to PM me. :siren:

Past Books of the Month

[for BOTM before 2014, refer to archives]

2014:
January: Ursula K. LeGuin - The Left Hand of Darkness
February: Mikhail Bulgalov - Master & Margarita
March: Richard P. Feynman -- Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!
April: James Joyce -- Dubliners
May: Gabriel Garcia Marquez -- 100 Years of Solitude
June: Howard Zinn -- A People's History of the United States
July: Mary Renault -- The Last of the Wine
August: Barbara Tuchtman -- The Guns of August
September: Jane Austen -- Pride and Prejudice
October: Roger Zelazny -- A Night in the Lonesome October
November: John Gardner -- Grendel
December: Christopher Moore -- The Stupidest Angel

2015:
January: Italo Calvino -- Invisible Cities
February: Karl Ove Knausgaard -- My Struggle: Book 1.
March: Knut Hamsun -- Hunger
April: Liu Cixin -- 三体 ( The Three-Body Problem)
May: John Steinbeck -- Cannery Row
June: Truman Capote -- In Cold Blood
(Hiatus)
August: Ta-Nehisi Coates -- Between the World and Me
September: Wilkie Collins -- The Moonstone
October:Seth Dickinson -- The Traitor Baru Cormorant
November:Svetlana Alexievich -- Voices from Chernobyl
December: Michael Chabon -- Gentlemen of the Road

2016:
January: Three Men in a Boat (To say nothing of the Dog!) by Jerome K. Jerome
February:The March Up Country (The Anabasis) of Xenophon
March: The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco
April: Plain Tales from the Hills by Rudyard Kipling
May: Temple of the Golden Pavilion by Yukio Mishima
June:The Vegetarian by Han Kang
July:Lud-in-the-Mist by Hope Mirrlees
August: Pale Fire by Vladimir Nabokov
September:Siddhartha by Herman Hesse
October:Right Ho, Jeeves by P.G. Wodehouse
November:Kitchen Confidential by Anthony Bourdain
December: It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis

2017:
January: Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut
February: The Plague by Albert Camus
March: The Dispossessed by Ursula K. LeGuin

Current:
The Conference of the Birds (مقامات الطیور) by Farid ud-Din Attar

Book available here:

http://persian.packhum.org/persian/main?url=pf%3Ffile%3D02602030%26ct%3D0
http://thekingdomwithin.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/The_Conference_of_the_Birds_Fardiuddin_Attar.pdf
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XBJ5LS8/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

About the book:

quote:

The Conference of the Birds or Speech of the Birds (Persian: منطق الطیر‎‎, Manṭiq-uṭ-Ṭayr, also known as مقامات الطیور Maqāmāt-uṭ-Ṭuyūr; 1177), is a celebrated literary masterpiece of Persian literature by poet Farid ud-Din Attar, commonly known as Attar of Nishapur.

In the poem, the birds of the world gather to decide who is to be their king, as they have none. The hoopoe, the wisest of them all, suggests that they should find the legendary Simorgh, a mythical Persian bird roughly equivalent to the western phoenix. The hoopoe leads the birds, each of whom represent a human fault which prevents man from attaining enlightenment. From the many birds that begin the journey, only thirty birds are left that finally reach the dwelling place of the Simorgh. There, the birds see the Simorgh in the reflection of their faces of an implicit lake.[1][2]

If Simorgh unveils its face to you, you will find
that all the birds, be they thirty or forty or more,
are but the shadows cast by that unveiling.
What shadow is ever separated from its maker?
Do you see?
The shadow and its maker are one and the same,
so get over surfaces and delve into mysteries. [3]
The seven valleys the birds cross are as follows:

1. Valley of the Quest, where the Wayfarer begins by casting aside all dogma, belief, and unbelief.
2. Valley of Love, where reason is abandoned for the sake of love.
3. Valley of Knowledge, where worldly knowledge becomes utterly useless.
4. Valley of Detachment, where all desires and attachments to the world are given up. Here, what is assumed to be �reality� vanishes.
5. Valley of Unity, where the Wayfarer realizes that everything is connected and that the Beloved is beyond everything, including harmony, multiplicity, and eternity.
6. Valley of Wonderment, where, entranced by the beauty of the Beloved, the Wayfarer becomes perplexed and, steeped in awe, finds that he or she has never known or understood anything.
7. Valley of Poverty and Annihilation, where the self disappears into the universe and the Wayfarer becomes timeless, existing in both the past and the future.[4]

About the Author

quote:

Abū Ḥamīd bin Abū Bakr Ibrāhīm (c. 1145 � c. 1221; Persian: ابو حامد بن ابوبکر ابراهیم‎‎), better known by his pen-names Farīd ud-Dīn (فرید الدین) and ʿAṭṭār (عطار, Attar means pharmacist or perfumer), was a Persian[2][3][4] Sunni[5] Muslim poet, theoretician of Sufism, and hagiographer from Nishapur who had an immense and lasting influence on Persian poetry and Sufism.

. . .

Information about Attar's life is rare and scarce. He is mentioned by only two of his contemporaries, `Awfi and Tusi. However, all sources confirm that he was from Nishapur, a major city of medieval Khorasan (now located in the northeast of Iran), and according to `Awfi, he was a poet of the Seljuq period.

Themes and Background

quote:

Attar's masterful use of symbolism is a key, driving component of the poem. This adroit handling of symbolisms and allusions can be seen reflected in these lines:

It was in China, late one moonless night, The Simorgh first appeared to mortal sight � Beside the symbolic use of the Simorgh, the allusion to China is also very significant. According to Idries Shah, China as used here, is not the geographical China, but the symbol of mystic experience, as inferred from the Hadith (declared weak by Ibn Adee, but still used symbolically by some Sufis): "Seek knowledge; even as far as China".[5] There are many more examples of such subtle symbols and allusions throughout the Mantiq. Within the larger context of the story of the journey of the birds, Attar masterfully tells the reader many didactic short, sweet stories in captivating poetic style. The book is meant to be not only instructive but also entertaining.

quote:

The thoughts depicted in `Attar's works reflects the whole evolution of the Sufi movement. The starting point is the idea that the body-bound soul's awaited release and return to its source in the other world can be experienced during the present life in mystic union attainable through inward purification.[11] In explaining his thoughts, 'Attar uses material not only from specifically Sufi sources but also from older ascetic legacies. Although his heroes are for the most part Sufis and ascetics, he also introduces stories from historical chronicles, collections of anecdotes, and all types of high-esteemed literature.[3] His talent for perception of deeper meanings behind outward appearances enables him to turn details of everyday life into illustrations of his thoughts. The idiosyncrasy of `Attar's presentations invalidates his works as sources for study of the historical persons whom he introduces. As sources on the hagiology and phenomenology of Sufism, however, his works have immense value.

Judging from `Attar's writings, he approached the available Aristotelian heritage with skepticism and dislike.[12][13] Interestingly, he did not seem to want to reveal the secrets of nature. This is particularly remarkable in the case of medicine, which fell well within the scope of his professional expertise as pharmacist. He obviously had no motive for sharing his expert knowledge in the manner customary among court panegyrists, whose type of poetry he despised and never practiced. Such knowledge is only brought into his works in contexts where the theme of a story touches on a branch of the natural sciences.

quote:

according to Edward G. Browne, Attar as well as Rumi and Sana'i were all Sunni Muslims, as evident from the fact that their poetry abounds with praise for the first two caliphs Abu Bakr and Umar ibn al-Khattāb - who are detested by Shia Islam.[14] According to Annemarie Schimmel, the tendency among Shia authors to include leading mystical poets such as Rumi and Attar among their own ranks, became stronger after the introduction of Twelver Shia as the state religion in the Safavid Empire in 1501.[15]

Pacing

Just read, then Post.

Please bookmark the thread to encourage discussion.

References and Further Reading

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khayyam (Same town, died about 30 years before Attar)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parlement_of_Foules (Chaucer also wrote a Parliament of Birds, about 200 years later)

Final Note:

Thanks, and I hope everyone enjoys the book!

# ? Apr 9, 2017 20:37

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# ? Jan 17, 2026 00:35

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

ulvir posted:

which version should I for my kindle, this or this?

edit: from the preview it looks like the first link is a prose translation. there's also a new translation from 2017, maybe I should go for this one instead?

Tree Goat posted:

don't get the $2.00 (or 1.99 or whatever) kindle version, it's the same as the one of the free public domain versions. the new translation is supposed to be good (but i haven't read it), the amazon kindle version is https://www.amazon.com/Conference-Birds-Attar-ebook/dp/B01HDSU0G0/

the penguin classics one (the paperback of the first link) is the one i have, and the one that was recommended to me

there's an illustrated one by peter sis that iirc is more of a "retelling" than a strict translation but is supposed to be pretty to look at

# ? Apr 9, 2017 20:40

TheManFromFOXHOUND: Nov 5, 2011

I got a copy of the Penguin edition at the library yesterday, but didn't get a chance to begin it until today. The language of the translation is really engaging and esoteric sects and their doctrines fascinate me more than anything else, so I have a feeling this book is going to be a favorite.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 03:20

Lunchmeat Larry: Nov 3, 2012

the Circumference of the Turds

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Apr 10, 2017 09:13

Tree Goat: May 24, 2009; argania spinosa

let�s meet the birds. today�s bird is the main bird of the book, the hoopoe.

for those of you who live in north america and/or northern europe, you might naturally wonder:

q: what is a hoopoe?
a: a hoopoe is a neat bird with a folding crest of feathers on its head

q: what does it look like?
a: reddish-dun breast, black and white wings, orange feathered crest with black and white spots, long curved beak.

q: where does it live?
a: throughout europe and asia, with the exception of the nordic countries and the british isles.

q: what does it sound like?
a: its call sounds pretty much like the "whoop whoop" sirens in krs one's "sound of da police "

q: does it shut the gently caress up when you are trying to sleep?
a: no

q: is it wise irl? or is it just depicted as wise in the book?
a: idk, the ones i have seen mostly fly around + eat bugs + make noise.

q: is enlightenment possible without utter, voluntary, submission to G-d?
a: great question! no.

let me know if you have any additional questions about hoopoes, or any of the other birds you encounter in this book.

# ? Apr 10, 2017 22:50

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Oh, this actually exists. I think I ran into this in a Borges story so I was kind of dubious, this being April and all.

edit: VVV Probably should've thought a bit more on that, yeah. It's been some time. Anyway, I'll try to pick it up this week.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Apr 11, 2017

# ? Apr 11, 2017 04:31

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

anilEhilated posted:

Oh, this actually exists. I think I ran into this in a Borges story so I was kind of dubious, this being April and all.

Oh nice catch!

But looks like it's from Borges' Collected Non-Fictions

quote:

The faraway king of all the birds, the Simurgh, lets fall a magnificent feather in the center of China: tired of their age-old anarchy, the birds resolve to go in search of him. They know that their king�s name means thirty birds; they know his palace is located on the Kaf, the circular mountain that surrounds the earth.

They embark upon the nearly infinite adventure. They pass through seven valleys or seas; the name of the penultimate is Vertigo; the last, Annihilation. Many pilgrims give up; others perish. Thirty, purified by their efforts, set foot on the mountain of the Simurgh. At last they gaze upon it: they perceive that they are the Simurgh and that the Simurgh is each one of them and all of them. In the Simurgh are the thirty birds and in each bird is the Simurgh.

http://aphelis.net/borges-simurgh/

# ? Apr 11, 2017 04:34

A human heart: Oct 10, 2012

Tree Goat posted:

let�s meet the birds. today�s bird is the main bird of the book, the hoopoe.

for those of you who live in north america and/or northern europe, you might naturally wonder:

q: what is a hoopoe?
a: a hoopoe is a neat bird with a folding crest of feathers on its head

q: what does it look like?
a: reddish-dun breast, black and white wings, orange feathered crest with black and white spots, long curved beak.

q: where does it live?
a: throughout europe and asia, with the exception of the nordic countries and the british isles.

q: what does it sound like?
a: its call sounds pretty much like the "whoop whoop" sirens in krs one's "sound of da police "

q: does it shut the gently caress up when you are trying to sleep?
a: no

q: is it wise irl? or is it just depicted as wise in the book?
a: idk, the ones i have seen mostly fly around + eat bugs + make noise.

q: is enlightenment possible without utter, voluntary, submission to G-d?
a: great question! no.

let me know if you have any additional questions about hoopoes, or any of the other birds you encounter in this book.

Thank you for the bird information.

# ? Apr 11, 2017 04:35

Tree Goat: May 24, 2009; argania spinosa

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

http://aphelis.net/borges-simurgh/

that passage originally shows up as a part of an entry in borges' "book of imaginary beings" iirc. he reused it for the essay "the simurgh and the eagle" later (but don't trust my chronology on that one).

A human heart posted:

Thank you for the bird information.

when it comes to bird facts, i aim to please.

# ? Apr 11, 2017 04:49

CestMoi: Sep 16, 2011

You're all stupid Borges Babys, later editions of Fictions contained a story from 1936 that originally appeared in History of Eternity, called The Approach to Al-Mu'tasim, which is a review of a book in which a Law student in Bombay murders someone then flees across India, hoping to find the perfect man (Al-Mu'tasim). He finally reaches the palace, pulls back the curtain, and the book ends. The review then has like a page long footnote about the Conference of the Birds, and how The Approach to AL-Mu'tasim closely follows it in themes. It's great.

# ? Apr 11, 2017 05:45

Tree Goat: May 24, 2009; argania spinosa

today�s bird is the huma/homa

q: what is a huma?
a: a bird that never touches the ground but is always in flight

q: what happens if you catch it?
a: you can�t catch it, it is 1) mythical and 2) impossible to catch since it is always high in the air. even being close enough to see its shadow is a sign of good fortune. depending on the myth, if you do catch one, you die in 40 days.

q: what happens when you see its shadow?
a: in conference of the birds, you are supposed to then be marked for kingship. other sources say that you will be happy for the rest of your life. in later myths, it had to land on your shoulder in order for the kingship thing to work out. in some versions, the eternal happiness thing happens when hearing its song, rather than seeing its shadow.

q: what does it look like?
unclear? some common elements seem to be feathers like jewels, and a big eagle-like curved beak.

q: did it ever appear in an episode of mst3k?
a: yes. in Садко (US: The Magic Voyage of Sinbad), one of the plot elements was seeking �the bird of paradise/happiness,� a bird whose song is sweet enough to grant happiness to whoever hears it, a direct mythological descendent of the huma. somewhat paralleling conference of the birds, sadko learns later over the course of his quest that true happiness is in his homeland, and he need not have journeyed far for it.

q: who should have been the first caliph, after the death of the Prophet?
a: attar was okay with the choice of abu bakr, but other people think it should have jumped directly to ali. curious to see what the thread thinks about this one!

Tree Goat fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Apr 16, 2017

# ? Apr 16, 2017 06:09

TheManFromFOXHOUND: Nov 5, 2011

quote:

A man whose job it was to keep the peace
Beat up a drunk, who fought for his release
And cried: "It's you who's tippled too much wine;
Your rowdiness is ten times worse than mine --
Who's causing this disturbance, you or me?
But yours is drunkenness that men can't see;
Leave me alone! Let justice do its worst --
Enforce the law and beat yourself up first!"

"gently caress the police" - Farid Ud-Din Attar

# ? Apr 18, 2017 03:22

Groke: Jul 27, 2007; New Adventures In Mom Strength

Almost halfway through (reading the Penguin Classics version) and this is some cool poo poo. Frequently funny, too.

# ? Apr 20, 2017 08:02

Bilirubin: Feb 16, 2014; The sanctioned action is to CHUG

Tree Goat posted:

when it comes to bird facts, i aim to please.

Makes sense, because who else would hang out with goats in trees but birds? Maybe bats?

# ? Apr 21, 2017 02:34

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Oh we will need suggestions for next month

This month has really flown by

# ? Apr 21, 2017 02:40

TheManFromFOXHOUND: Nov 5, 2011

Finished the book last night. I found it interesting that my copy ended with another parable/allegory after the birds discover the Simorgh. From reading the introduction, it seems like there is an epilogue that wasn't included in the Penguin classics version, as well.

I don't usually read poetry so this was a bit of departure for me, but I found the language really beautiful and I'm definitely looking for more.

# ? Apr 23, 2017 18:44

Juaguocio: Jun 5, 2005; Oh, David...

Crossposting from NMD with an appropriate soundtrack for this book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiG6SDTnWHk

# ? Apr 25, 2017 05:01

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

TheManFromFOXHOUND posted:

Finished the book last night. I found it interesting that my copy ended with another parable/allegory after the birds discover the Simorgh. From reading the introduction, it seems like there is an epilogue that wasn't included in the Penguin classics version, as well.

I don't usually read poetry so this was a bit of departure for me, but I found the language really beautiful and I'm definitely looking for more.

I recommend Ovid's Metamorphoses (the A.D. Melville translation).

# ? Apr 25, 2017 08:27

A human heart: Oct 10, 2012

Juaguocio posted:

Crossposting from NMD with an appropriate soundtrack for this book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiG6SDTnWHk

If you're going to post music named after the poem the least you could do would be something that isn't dull stoner metal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfMrPeqg66Q

# ? Apr 25, 2017 10:54

CestMoi: Sep 16, 2011

TheManFromFOXHOUND posted:

Finished the book last night. I found it interesting that my copy ended with another parable/allegory after the birds discover the Simorgh. From reading the introduction, it seems like there is an epilogue that wasn't included in the Penguin classics version, as well.

I don't usually read poetry so this was a bit of departure for me, but I found the language really beautiful and I'm definitely looking for more.

If you're interested in more modern Arabic poetry then you should read Adonis. There might be other people writing poetry in Arabic atm but no one bothers talking about them because they're not Adonis. He also does cool essays on things like Sufism + Surrealism and Arabic poems from the past that are not written by him, Adonis.

# ? Apr 25, 2017 12:20

Groke: Jul 27, 2007; New Adventures In Mom Strength

Finished, was an awesome book. Also surprisingly frequently fabulously gay. Not to mention all the drunkenness and general immodesty.

# ? Apr 27, 2017 21:35

ulvir: Jan 2, 2005

I ordered it physically from a book store that took for-loving-ever to mail it, so I'll be lucky if I manage to finish it before May, but I'm gonna start reading tomorrow

# ? Apr 27, 2017 21:48

ulvir: Jan 2, 2005

I've just started reading the book today. I've just passed the second parable now, and I really love it so far.

# ? Apr 29, 2017 18:51

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# ? Jan 17, 2026 00:35

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

I happened to read the story of Tereus in Ovid's Metamorphoses, and oh boy is it a contrast;

quote:

With a great shout the Thracian king thrust back
The table, calling from the chasms of Hell
The snake.haired Furies. Gladly, if he could,
He'd tear himself apart to vomit back
That frightful feast, that flesh of his own flesh.
He wept and wailed and called himself his son's
Disastrous tomb, then with his naked sowed
Pursued Pandion's daughters. As they flee,
You'd think they'd float on wings. Yes, sure enough,
They float on wings! One daughter seeks the woods,
One rises to the roof, and even now
The marks of murder show upon a breast
And feathers carry still the stamp of blood.
And he, grief-spurred, swift-swooping for revenge,
Is changed into a bird that bears a crest,
With, for a sword, a long fantastic bill---
A hoopoe, every inch a fighter still.

# ? May 4, 2017 10:39

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Book Barn BOTM: The Conference of the Birds by Attar of Nishapur