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Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


Mover posted:

Jump and then downward slash while in the air to bounce off of those.

You can also bounce off of enemies and spikes with good timing, which is needed for some platforming puzzles in a few places

I didn't even realize there was a down and upslash until I read this. Thanks.

Enjoying this game a lot other than my personal gripes with Metroidvanias, but it feels like it really took the kid gloves off rather suddenly. Was progressing fairly comfortably up until I hit Soul Sanctum and then I died a ton. Beat that, and now I'm dying a ton in Crystal Caves instead. I wanna just spend all this geo but I can't even find a stagecoach to leave this blasted place. What is it with crystal levels in video games always being annoying?

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Chard
Aug 24, 2010



Pillbug

The second, faster Crystal Beam Guy can gently caress completely off.

Knorth
Aug 18, 2014



Buglord

As someone who apparently cannot get out of the way of laser beams, even when I can freaking see them coming,

Obligatum VII
May 5, 2014

Haunting you until no 8 arrives.

Knorth posted:

As someone who apparently cannot get out of the way of laser beams, even when I can freaking see them coming,

Chard posted:

The second, faster Crystal Beam Guy can gently caress completely off.

You can't be reactive on that one, you just have to predict and jump early.

Roobanguy
May 30, 2011


I remember super meat boys too, developers.

Mover
Jun 30, 2008


Regardless of difficulty, Crystal Guardian round 2 is my least favorite boss in the game because they took an already uncreative boss (he has literally 2 moves) and just 1) sped him up to eye roll levels and 2) doubled his damage.

Thank god he's optional and relatively fragile

Azathoth256
Mar 30, 2010


I remember getting fed up with his bullshit and switched out my entire charm loadout so that I could just damage race him instead.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


Cool, because this wasn't hard enough already.



Fortunately, being put into a bullshit situation is a good way to pressure yourself into pulling it off, albeit barely.

And then I had to do it again because I jumped into thorns nearby.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015






that's not a very bullshit situation at all, by any measure?

guppy
Sep 21, 2004

sting like a byob

Chard posted:

The second, faster Crystal Beam Guy can gently caress completely off.

I found him very hard until later. I ignored him and made do without that bench, then came back when my Nail was way stronger and I didn't have to survive as long. It helps that by then I was better, too, but the second time was basically just me killing him first.

One Hundred Monkeys
Aug 7, 2010


Internet Kraken posted:

I didn't even realize there was a down and upslash until I read this. Thanks.

Enjoying this game a lot other than my personal gripes with Metroidvanias, but it feels like it really took the kid gloves off rather suddenly. Was progressing fairly comfortably up until I hit Soul Sanctum and then I died a ton. Beat that, and now I'm dying a ton in Crystal Caves instead. I wanna just spend all this geo but I can't even find a stagecoach to leave this blasted place. What is it with crystal levels in video games always being annoying?

I'm guessing you've progressed through the caves by now, but here's a pro tip for any other goon that might be reading: you can flip the unstable platforms back to a safe configuration by pogo bouncing on them.

Mindblast
Jun 28, 2006

Moving at the speed of death.


Game was great. No idea I was in for a big ride when I bought this. If I had to criticise I'd say that there are two notable issues. The first is the slow start. I didn't mind but your duder starts off with a kit that is slightly too basic.
The second is the fast travel system. The problem is how lopsided the stations are distributed, it feels like some areas were neglected.


Chard posted:

The second, faster Crystal Beam Guy can gently caress completely off.

Ensure your nail is as good as it can be. Load up on +blue hp charms, use the one that changes your regular hp into blues if you can. Add the ones that allow faster swing speed and make you stay in place after hitting something. Range upgrades are not needed here.

The idea is that you can't heal reliably so you may as well just berserker his rear end into the ground. Try to dodge a little but don't sweat getting hit. Just rage like crazy. It works!

There's more than one boss where this works on, including at least one of the dream variants. lost kin

Quinton
Apr 25, 2004



Mindblast posted:

Ensure your nail is as good as it can be. Load up on +blue hp charms, use the one that changes your regular hp into blues if you can. Add the ones that allow faster swing speed and make you stay in place after hitting something. Range upgrades are not needed here.

The idea is that you can't heal reliably so you may as well just berserker his rear end into the ground. Try to dodge a little but don't sweat getting hit. Just rage like crazy. It works!

When I beat him I was using blue health and boosted damage, and I'm not sure if I was particularly lucky, but running up to him and jumping over him and hitting him from the other side as he starts charging his laser attack was very effective. He used the lasers from above very seldom in that fight and it might be because I kept closing with him -- he'd turn around start charging the laser again, I'd jump over him and hit him from the other side.

Mover
Jun 30, 2008


The charm that extends the invincibility duration after getting hit can be a lifesaver against bosses you're trying to damage race as well--especially the ones that do 2 pips of damage per hit

Roobanguy
May 30, 2011


just beat the game. liked it a lot, though there were some frustrations.

its a weird complaint, but i think the game is a little to hands off sometimes. i must of spent like 5 hours in total just trying to find out where to go after completing an area, which is frustrating.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


What am I supposed to do with all these rancid eggs?

Einwand
Nov 3, 2012

You idiot.
In this world it's pet or BE pet.


They're used to make use of Confessor Jiji's service, or his steelsoul equivalent.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


Is Failed Champion supposed to be absurdly hard or am I just even worse than I thought?

Its the only boss I've run into where I have no clue how to even go about dodging all the stuff it throws at you.

Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at May 3, 2017 around 02:40

Knorth
Aug 18, 2014



Buglord

Try sneaking under it when it jumps

Like, it's not a trick really so it's still gunna be hard but try dashing back and forth underneath it when it does those quick jump swings

Knorth fucked around with this message at May 3, 2017 around 02:49

One Hundred Monkeys
Aug 7, 2010


Internet Kraken posted:

Is Failed Champion supposed to be absurdly hard or am I just even worse than I thought?

Its the only boss I've run into where I have no clue how to even go about dodging all the stuff it throws at you.

When he runs towards you, that means he's going to do a jump attack. Getting some distance makes it easier to predict his next move.

If he ends up very close to the wall, with you stuck in between, he'll back up a little bit so you won't get hit with unavoidable damage. Still, he's at his most dangerous when he's got you cornered, so try not to let him put you there.

He will block any debris falling on top of him, so you can use his body as cover when you pass under a jump attack.

You know this already, in all likelihood, but you can deflect the falling rocks with a nail swing. Useful if you don't have space to dodge them.

Losing to the Champion doesn't count as a death, so the normal drawback of Fragile Strength doesn't apply here.

If you absolutely can't beat him, come back later after you've collected a bunch of powerups. I'm guessing your nail isn't heavily upgraded yet?

joshtothemaxx
Nov 17, 2008

I will have a whole army of zombies! A zombie Marine Corps, a zombie Navy Corps, zombie Space Cadets...


I just beat this game doing all the endings. Easily my favorite game of the past year. Really loved it and can't wait for more from this studio. I hope the game gets more love.

joshtothemaxx fucked around with this message at May 3, 2017 around 22:11

Knorth
Aug 18, 2014



Buglord

Oh! I don't think I mentioned in the OP but they are planning some DLC content later in the year(s?) too just fyi. Supposedly a Hornet campaign that might flesh out Deepnest a bit. I'm looking forward to it

Oh, speaking of did anyone not get the scene with Hornet after you release Herrah the Beast? I got it on my playthrough but a nice youtube guy I watch didn't see it so I'm not sure what order of things triggers it.

Mindblast
Jun 28, 2006

Moving at the speed of death.


I think I did. I wasn't even aware you could miss it really. Sounds like a bug() to me there is nothing that indicates you need to do something special.

Knorth
Aug 18, 2014



Buglord

Yeah, you're probably right. Bummer for him I guess but I'm glad other people aren't likely to miss it somehow, it was a neat little character moment

Quinton
Apr 25, 2004



Mindblast posted:

I think I did. I wasn't even aware you could miss it really. Sounds like a bug() to me there is nothing that indicates you need to do something special.

Whoah. I just found that in a youtube clip now. I definitely did not run into her there.

Maybe it's because I did not have my second battle with Hornet until *after* my trip to the Beast's den...

Knorth
Aug 18, 2014



Buglord

Oh no I hope people stumble across it Hornets hints are always so cryptic, I can definitely see why people wouldn't connect her ashy grave comment with Kingdoms Edge especially with the entrance being pretty hidden compared to Deepnest

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


Have the developers given any estimate when the Switch version of this is going to be released?

Knorth
Aug 18, 2014



Buglord

Nothing beyond 'in 2017' yet I'm afraid

guppy
Sep 21, 2004

sting like a byob

Internet Kraken posted:

Is Failed Champion supposed to be absurdly hard or am I just even worse than I thought?

Its the only boss I've run into where I have no clue how to even go about dodging all the stuff it throws at you.

You almost certainly know this, but just in case, it's one of the "Nightmare" bosses and you aren't supposed to beat it til endgame, and it's still supposed to be very hard.

Mindblast
Jun 28, 2006

Moving at the speed of death.


Knorth posted:

Oh no I hope people stumble across it Hornets hints are always so cryptic, I can definitely see why people wouldn't connect her ashy grave comment with Kingdoms Edge especially with the entrance being pretty hidden compared to Deepnest

It's been a litle while since I played, so I''m trying to retrace him I went through the game and might be off, but if it is true that the scene at Herrah will not play until you beat the second Hornet fight, that is an oversight imo. The way you go through the game makes you far more likely to encounter deepnest before you encounter Kingdoms Edge. Actually, can you even get into Kingdoms Edge without coming into contact with that zone? Any seasoned metroidvania player will usually not move out of a new zone until they're sure that they can not progress further in said zone.
I made an exception for Deepnest because A) I didn't want to go there. I just happened upon the place while I was exploring something else. B) I was saving the dreamers until I had nothing else left to do C) when I noticed Deepnests' traits I went "yeah no gently caress this poo poo we're saving this for last". Not even because of some phobia. I just don't dig() the tunnel-esque style.


e:

guppy posted:

You almost certainly know this, but just in case, it's one of the "Nightmare" bosses and you aren't supposed to beat it til endgame, and it's still supposed to be very hard.

Basically the mindset you should have with the optional dream bosses. Until the late late game there is always an upgrade to find in one shape or another.

Knorth
Aug 18, 2014



Buglord

Mindblast posted:

It's been a litle while since I played, so I''m trying to retrace him I went through the game and might be off, but if it is true that the scene at Herrah will not play until you beat the second Hornet fight, that is an oversight imo. The way you go through the game makes you far more likely to encounter deepnest before you encounter Kingdoms Edge. Actually, can you even get into Kingdoms Edge without coming into contact with that zone? Any seasoned metroidvania player will usually not move out of a new zone until they're sure that they can not progress further in said zone.
I made an exception for Deepnest because A) I didn't want to go there. I just happened upon the place while I was exploring something else. B) I was saving the dreamers until I had nothing else left to do C) when I noticed Deepnests' traits I went "yeah no gently caress this poo poo we're saving this for last". Not even because of some phobia. I just don't dig() the tunnel-esque style.


So, there's no real reason you'd need to touch Deepnest before KE, there's that trap where you fall through into Deepnest(which incidentally is where I basically had your C reaction to it) and the door after you beat the Mantis Lords but neither of those are really on your way. Hornet does tell you to go to Kingdoms Edge when you meet in front of the Hollow Knight statue but it's cryptic enough that you probably won't realise that until you learn things about KE and the entrance to Kingdoms Edge is really hidden compared to the giant Deepnest door. As much as I love Hornet's absolute refusal to give you clear direction, I don't think both of those things work well together here. I hope it's something that they'll just tweak in a patch 'cause I love how open it is in general and it's just a bit of a bummer that people will miss out because of that.

Oh, one other thing that might not be clear to people, that green pipe/switch in the Waterways is to remove acid from the entrance of Isma's Grove. It's in a weird place since there's practically no way you'd see the flooded entrance /before/ encountering the Defender and while he did put a sign up, it's not super helpful

Obligatum VII
May 5, 2014

Haunting you until no 8 arrives.

Oh geez, I must have missed the scene you folks are talking about. Anyone have a link to a clip of it?

Also, something that's bugging me:
Is there any use for Mr. Mushroom or is he just there to dispense a cool poem in the fungal wastes? Likewise, is there any use for the mask maker or is he something likely to come up in the Hornet stuff that may end up happening?

Knorth
Aug 18, 2014



Buglord

Obligatum VII posted:

Oh geez, I must have missed the scene you folks are talking about. Anyone have a link to a clip of it?

Also, something that's bugging me:
Is there any use for Mr. Mushroom or is he just there to dispense a cool poem in the fungal wastes? Likewise, is there any use for the mask maker or is he something likely to come up in the Hornet stuff that may end up happening?

Apparently all the youtube people missed it too lol, I found this though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avqWD5Aaj34#t=94s It's a small thing but I thought it was neat

I'm pretty sure the devs said in some stream that Mask guy and the other mysterious Deepnest things are going to be dlc stuff. I've heard there is something more to Mushroom guy, I haven't done it though so I don't know the details but I think that he's meant to pop up in a few different places?

Dancer
May 23, 2011


Knorth posted:

I've heard there is something more to Mushroom guy, I haven't done it though so I don't know the details but I think that he's meant to pop up in a few different places?

I've done all that using guides from the internet and I don't feel bad about it at all. You encounter that creature 7 times, in different places. To interact with it properly you need to have a specific charm equipped.

guppy
Sep 21, 2004

sting like a byob

Obligatum VII posted:

Oh geez, I must have missed the scene you folks are talking about. Anyone have a link to a clip of it?

Also, something that's bugging me:
Is there any use for Mr. Mushroom or is he just there to dispense a cool poem in the fungal wastes? Likewise, is there any use for the mask maker or is he something likely to come up in the Hornet stuff that may end up happening?

Increasing spoilers as you go down:

He's in a bunch of places. You can unlock an achievement and a special scene in the ending by doing his "quest."

You need the Spore Charm equipped to talk to him.

You need to talk to him in a specific order for it to work.

Guide here, including information on where the riddle is and how to read it, in case you want to puzzle out the actual locations yourself: http://hollowknight.wikia.com/wiki/Mister_Mushroom

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


guppy posted:

You almost certainly know this, but just in case, it's one of the "Nightmare" bosses and you aren't supposed to beat it til endgame, and it's still supposed to be very hard.

I did not know this. I had just gotten the dream nail and went back to that place since I thought it might have a secret. And it did! The secret just destroyed me.

Probably would of helped if I had the dash i-frame upgrade. Abusing that has made a lot of problem enemies a lot easier.

Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at May 4, 2017 around 01:27

Einwand
Nov 3, 2012

You idiot.
In this world it's pet or BE pet.



Great game, would recommend.

yergacheffe
Jan 22, 2007
Whaler on the moon.

Internet Kraken posted:


EDIT: How do I get the grub outside of the Pale Lady's hut? I can't find any hidden paths in the area.

IIRC the path to the white lady is at the top most part of the Queen's gardens. You need to backtrack and take the second top most path. On that route there should be a secret path in the ceiling that's slightly obscured by the overgrowth that will lead to the grub. Phone posting right now otherwise I'd screenshot it for you.

yergacheffe fucked around with this message at May 4, 2017 around 01:31

Quinton
Apr 25, 2004



Mindblast posted:

It's been a litle while since I played, so I''m trying to retrace him I went through the game and might be off, but if it is true that the scene at Herrah will not play until you beat the second Hornet fight, that is an oversight imo. The way you go through the game makes you far more likely to encounter deepnest before you encounter Kingdoms Edge. Actually, can you even get into Kingdoms Edge without coming into contact with that zone? Any seasoned metroidvania player will usually not move out of a new zone until they're sure that they can not progress further in said zone.

I fell down into Deepnest, ended up exploring bunch and getting the Tram Pass and then leaving via the bottom right without having encountered Herrah. From there I ended up in the Hive and then wandered up into Kingdom's Edge, where I ran into Hornet... and she kicked my butt a couple times and I wandered off to do other things (including more fully exploring Deepnest) before eventually getting back there, only after the Herrah encounter, at which point I finally beat Hornet.

Quinton fucked around with this message at May 4, 2017 around 03:07

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Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


yergacheffe posted:

IIRC the path to the white lady is at the top most part of the Queen's gardens. You need to backtrack and take the second top most path. On that route there should be a secret path in the ceiling that's slightly obscured by the overgrowth that will lead to the grub. Phone posting right now otherwise I'd screenshot it for you.

I found it myself but thanks anyways. That was an awfully roundabout path.

I'm shocked by how big this world is for an indie game. I just now got the achievement for visiting every area. Granted I've been extremely thorough since I wanna 100% this. I think my favorite area was Deepnest. The atmosphere of that place is top notch.

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