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IBlameRoadSuess
Feb 20, 2012

Fucking technology...

At least I HAVE THIS!


I may just be bad at video games but is there a secret to beating the second arena fight, i need that pale ore for my final nail upgrade and I just keep getting owned by the time the big blue orb bugs start shooting me.

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Tunahead
Mar 26, 2010



Those two are the very last enemies in the trial, so don't despair. If you've got unexplored areas left, now might be a good time to go to there and see if you can find something to help you not suck so much. If you haven't found the Stalwart Shell, Quick Slash, Baldur Shell, Quick Focus, Hiveblood, Shape of Unn or Nailmaster's Glory charms then you're definitely missing out because they're really nice to have for the arena. Also please avoid the final trial if at all possible because it is hell compared to the second trial.

Inexplicable Humblebrag
Sep 20, 2003



so the boss in the Tower of Love is, uh, disturbing

still, i get to see what happens when you collect all the grubs soon! they're really cute



i know exactly what happens to them

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:

so the boss in the Tower of Love is, uh, disturbing

I love his laughter at the start of the fight. Voice talent was really having fun there.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


I like that if you die to him he does exactly what you would expect to your shade.

Inexplicable Humblebrag
Sep 20, 2003



i wouldn't know

one more grub to go, and he's in the hive, somewhere...

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:

i wouldn't know

one more grub to go, and he's in the hive, somewhere...

I spent forever looking for a path to this guy in completely the wrong room. Not that tricky once you figure out what direction to come at it from, though.

Does anything else in the game shed any light on what the Collector is? It seems pretty clear just from looking at him that he's some kind of abyssal entity like the siblings, but what's his deal?

Inexplicable Humblebrag
Sep 20, 2003



yeah i figured it out after blazing left and right a few times in confusion. found him!

i really like the big shaggy bees and it's good that they go non-hostile with the hive trinket equipped

now i just gotta figure out how to get the second ending to this game

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


Jesus christ why does this game turn into loving Super Meat Boy in one level? I didn't sign up for this

VVV I actually tried that and it didn't seem to work? It must have glitched out because when I got down to two HP the last crystal filled up completely but the first one was still shaking. Then when I got hit it took off both and killed me. I was using the blue blessing that gives you more health but no focus so maybe they interact in a weird way.

Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at May 6, 2017 around 02:06

Dancer
May 23, 2011

Fly me away on the wings of an angel.


Internet Kraken posted:

Jesus christ why does this game turn into loving Super Meat Boy in one level? I didn't sign up for this

There's a way to "cheese" that level (slightly): that one charm (Hiveblood?) that lets you regain the single last hit point you lost. If you wait for that every time you take damage, you can try the obstacles as many times you want without dying

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


I love how for 95% of the game it takes care to properly ground the setting of each level to make sure you're fighting bugs and evading perils thematically appropriate to the type of place that it is, and then you get to where the loving king lived and it's a nightmarish shitstorm of buzz saws and nothingness

Obligatum VII
May 5, 2014

Haunting you until no 8 arrives.

skasion posted:

I love how for 95% of the game it takes care to properly ground the setting of each level to make sure you're fighting bugs and evading perils thematically appropriate to the type of place that it is, and then you get to where the loving king lived and it's a nightmarish shitstorm of buzz saws and nothingness

Look, the king played a lot of super meat boy and has had nightmares about buzzsaws ever since.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015






realizing that you can ducktails bounce off of spikes and buzzsaws with your sword makes that area several times easier.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


Where is the guy who wants all these relics? I'm close to beating the game and still haven't found his shop. I saw him outside by the statue once and he said to come to his shop but failed to mention where it is. I've looked all over the city so I must be missing some obvious spot.

Knorth
Aug 18, 2014



Buglord

Try the building to the left of the statue, there should be a sign but there's no doorway entrance like other shops I think. You just kinda wander in from the side

Mindblast
Jun 28, 2006

Moving at the speed of death.


Internet Kraken posted:

Where is the guy who wants all these relics? I'm close to beating the game and still haven't found his shop. I saw him outside by the statue once and he said to come to his shop but failed to mention where it is. I've looked all over the city so I must be missing some obvious spot.

Yeah, you did. He's been accessible for ages to you. Near the statue, I think a screen to the left, there are some elevators. Go up one floor and go right. It's probably there. If not, check the rooms to the right of the statue.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?


It's right above the simple-locked manhole (bughole?) to the sewers. There's a sign near there pointing towards it.

Exps
Jun 14, 2008


Dancer posted:

There's a way to "cheese" that level (slightly): that one charm (Hiveblood?) that lets you regain the single last hit point you lost. If you wait for that every time you take damage, you can try the obstacles as many times you want without dying

There is a few things you can do to further the cheese of that level, one of which is slashing downwards repeatably while being close to the wall spikes to bounce upwards and skip some annoying parts.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


skasion posted:

It's right above the simple-locked manhole (bughole?) to the sewers. There's a sign near there pointing towards it.

Welp. I'd feel worse about missing this if he gave anything other than geo which I had way more than I needed.

Finished the game with 94% completion and I got what I assume is the "good" ending. I wanted to get 100% without spoilers but I have no idea where the last few things I'm missing are. I'll come back at some later point and use a guide to find them.

So I didn't really have high expectations for this game. I never heard of it until I saw a "Hollow Knight 100% bosses no damage" video and for some reason skimmed it. I have no idea why since I usually ignore those. So I actually spoiled myself on some of the fights and that put me off the game* since the guy was so good I didn't appreciate how difficult that was. After hearing so much praise for the game though I decided to try it out and I'm glad I did. Its really loving good! Like, really! I don't normally enjoy 2D Metroidvania games that much but it was a blast to play and explore. Definitely recommending this to others since it needs more love.

I'm shocked by how good the design is. The only significant part of the game that I felt was awfully designed was White Palace. No idea what they were thinking there.

*the voice work being goofy as hell also made me wary. I guess its intentional to a degree but some of the bugs sound really stupid and annoying which doesn't mesh well with the tone to me. That might be a personal problem though.

Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at May 7, 2017 around 05:55

Knorth
Aug 18, 2014



Buglord

Internet Kraken posted:

*the voice work being goofy as hell also made me wary. I guess its intentional to a degree but some of the bugs sound really stupid and annoying which doesn't mesh well with the tone to me. That might be a personal problem though.

This is unacceptable

Cnidaria
Apr 10, 2009

It's all politics, Joel.

I think one of my favorite things about this game is how much variety there is.

Basically every area has it's own set of unique enemies, even small hidden areas like the hive.

And when the game reuses enemies it sometimes does interesting things like the horrifying spider parasite corpses in Deepnest.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 11 days!


How do you reach the Queen's Gardens? Can't seem to find a way in.

Knorth
Aug 18, 2014



Buglord

Isn't there an entrance in Fog Canyon somewhere?

Einwand
Nov 3, 2012

You idiot.
In this world it's pet or BE pet.


From what I recall there's two initially available entrances to that zone, and they're both in fog canyon. Specifics, one's just above the banker and requires Isma's tear, while the other is by the overgrown mound with the shade cloak being necessary.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 11 days!


Found it, thanks.

Also, holy hell on a stick the Dream Bosses and Coliseum of Fools just straight up want to break you over their knee, huh.

IBlameRoadSuess
Feb 20, 2012

Fucking technology...

At least I HAVE THIS!


Just finished the white palace and now I'm at the black egg temple. Holy loving poo poo that was some kaizo mario romhack level bullshit. Anyone have any tips on fighting the true final boss because they murder me within seconds. I've got all charms and upgrades so if it's just a matter of get good then I may be hosed.

yergacheffe
Jan 22, 2007
Whaler on the moon.

IBlameRoadSuess posted:

Just finished the white palace and now I'm at the black egg temple. Holy loving poo poo that was some kaizo mario romhack level bullshit. Anyone have any tips on fighting the true final boss because they murder me within seconds. I've got all charms and upgrades so if it's just a matter of get good then I may be hosed.

What worked for me was doing a more defensive build based around baldur shell, quick focus, the charm that gives longer invincibility time after getting hit, and one that gives more soul on attack. When things started getting hectic and I found myself in a spot with the invincible dash on cooldown, I'd just tank the hit with baldur shell instead. You can also consider getting hit by the spikes on the ground instead if you're gonna eat poo poo, since they only do half the damage compared to the other attacks. Heal up when it does the beam attack (step into the area where the second wave was and start healing) and be aware that the baldur shell does break eventually so try to use it as a last resort. Just like in the nightmare fights, the main thing is to survive and deal damage when the opportunity presents itself.

joshtothemaxx
Nov 17, 2008

I will have a whole army of zombies! A zombie Marine Corps, a zombie Navy Corps, zombie Space Cadets...


IBlameRoadSuess posted:

Just finished the white palace and now I'm at the black egg temple. Holy loving poo poo that was some kaizo mario romhack level bullshit. Anyone have any tips on fighting the true final boss because they murder me within seconds. I've got all charms and upgrades so if it's just a matter of get good then I may be hosed.

Also the up arrow spell does great damage. I used lots of charms that made spells better and spammed the hell out of that.

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

I used the one which gives you sword beams together with one which gives extra blue health. But mostly it took quite some time.

Einwand
Nov 3, 2012

You idiot.
In this world it's pet or BE pet.


My setup for the true final boss was quick focus, hiveblood and mark of pride, or fragile strength on my steelsoul run. I mostly just focused on dodging until the hiveblood heart refilled whenever I took damage, and quick focus let me charge 2 or 3 hp during each laser attack. Also mentioned is that the up spell hits it up to 3 times for good damage.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


I really love the arena in this game. Usually I never give a poo poo about arenas in games because they are but this one is awesome. I really love that the crowd actually reacts to the fight, it makes it so much more satisfying. I loved it so much I actually went back to the arena and am trying to beat it without taking damage. Managed the first trial, and almost got the second. The third...well, that probably isn't happening but a fool can dream.

Really I just want an excuse to keep playing. I wish this game had a NG+ mode so I could replay it with all these fun late game charms.

Inexplicable Humblebrag
Sep 20, 2003



huh, i think i killed the final boss with the compass equipped as i forgot to take it off

what a great game!

funktopus
Jan 11, 2009


This game is unbelievably good and I had no idea I'd like it so much...
...but the Trial of Fools is ridiculous. Like, my hands were tired from all the jumping and dashing and poo poo. Plus I got some bullshit bug where the wizard bugs' shield orbs would remain after I killed them, which made dodging things in the last fights next to impossible.

The delicate flower quest was one thing, the (endgame area spoiler) White Palace was doable with some practice, but the last trial is kicking my rear end.

I'd love to know how some people approached (and beat) it.

IBlameRoadSuess
Feb 20, 2012

Fucking technology...

At least I HAVE THIS!


gently caress the White Palace. That was some mario romhack level bullshit. The trial of fools is manageable to a point. It's hard but it's combat and you actually have a say in it aside from "oh touched the edge of the spikes and spawned at the bottom of the room again, gently caress." That area actively soured me a bit on the rest of the game because it's like they completely forgot about basic loving level design principles and just tossed poo poo together like a third rate level designer.

As far as the colosseum of fools is concerned, max upgrades, all charms, use the stuff that makes you heal quick and gives you more soul.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


So how the gently caress did anyone figure out Mr. Mushroom without spoilers?

funktopus posted:

This game is unbelievably good and I had no idea I'd like it so much...
...but the Trial of Fools is ridiculous. Like, my hands were tired from all the jumping and dashing and poo poo. Plus I got some bullshit bug where the wizard bugs' shield orbs would remain after I killed them, which made dodging things in the last fights next to impossible.

The delicate flower quest was one thing, the (endgame area spoiler) White Palace was doable with some practice, but the last trial is kicking my rear end.

I'd love to know how some people approached (and beat) it.

That bug sucks, along with the performance issues when the arena is loading new waves, but other than that I loving loved it. Even if it took over an hour of dying to finally beat it. I'm pretty sure the set up I had was;

-Mark of Pride
-Shaman Stone
-Dream Wielder
-Sharp Shadow
-Defender's Crest

Basically, I spammed the magic missile a lot. With the shaman's stone it OHKOs a lot of enemies and can hit multiple targets. Sometimes an enemy will even get hit by it twice which barely anything survives. With Dream Wielder you can refill your soul against a lot of enemies when you learn the timing, which will also let you heal. So learning to abuse that will give you more missiles and more healing. Some enemies like the shield fools are super easy to farm soul off of and give you a ton of room to heal, so any wave that ends with them is a chance to refill to max.

Sharp Shadow I just used because its fun. Defender's crest is definitely not optimal but damage is damage. The proper choice would be to use Nailmaster's Glory. A charged swing with the fully upgraded nail will outright kill a lot of stuff, so once you know the waves you can camp a spawn with a charge slash for an easy kill. It goes without saying but make sure your nail is fully upgraded cause you don't need to beat this trial to max it out. Don't be a fool like me and do it without the maxed nail.

Also I'm not entirely sure but I think the glitch with the wizard bugs is caused by killing them right when they spawn. I never had it happen on one that was alive for a few seconds.

IBlameRoadSuess posted:

gently caress the White Palace. That was some mario romhack level bullshit. The trial of fools is manageable to a point. It's hard but it's combat and you actually have a say in it aside from "oh touched the edge of the spikes and spawned at the bottom of the room again, gently caress." That area actively soured me a bit on the rest of the game because it's like they completely forgot about basic loving level design principles and just tossed poo poo together like a third rate level designer.

As far as the colosseum of fools is concerned, max upgrades, all charms, use the stuff that makes you heal quick and gives you more soul.

That area is so poorly designed compared to the rest of the game. I just don't understand it. Why did they make such a plot important level into a Super Meat Boy nightmare?

Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at May 9, 2017 around 08:43

Knorth
Aug 18, 2014



Buglord

Because it was awesome.

I kinda don't get calling it poorly designed, it was incredibly tight and acted as the perfect counter-part to the arena. One being about pushing the combat to it's limit and the other about the platforming. They'd teased you with moments of tricky platforming throughout the whole thing and this was the culmination of that

IBlameRoadSuess posted:

gently caress the White Palace. That was some mario romhack level bullshit. The trial of fools is manageable to a point. It's hard but it's combat and you actually have a say in it aside from "oh touched the edge of the spikes and spawned at the bottom of the room again, gently caress." That area actively soured me a bit on the rest of the game because it's like they completely forgot about basic loving level design principles and just tossed poo poo together like a third rate level designer.

Completely disagree with this, absolutely do not feel more in control during combat than when you're figuring out how to jump through the spikes properly.

Knorth fucked around with this message at May 9, 2017 around 09:15

Dancer
May 23, 2011

Fly me away on the wings of an angel.


I am slightly amused by the two big "types" of players that have emerged, hating either of the two big challenges (and often being entirely okay with the other one). Right now on /r/hollowknight front page there's a guy who's been trying last arena fight for "4 to 5 days", and another one who added 13 hours to his save file while trying it. That guy also finished SMB and I Wanna Be The Guy apparently. Also a guy complaining about the platforming one.

In my case, I definitely didn't finish IWBTG, I did finish but not even close to 100% SMB, and I beat WP in this game after like 5 resets. I can't agree that it's bad design. It demands more skill than most of the rest of the game (honestly, I think I spent more time on the Mantis Lords fight), and maybe it's skill of a slightly different type, but the jumps are all so tight and carefully planned. It's hard but it's pretty fair with the player.

Dancer fucked around with this message at Jun 11, 2017 around 15:39

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

The platforming challenge was really fun. I actually would have wanted more of this hard stuff. But to be fair, I cheesed it a bit with the hive blood. Pulling off complicated jumps feels great, but doing
a large series of them without checkpoints can start to get frustrating.

Obligatum VII
May 5, 2014

Haunting you until no 8 arrives.

I think having Hiveblood or not makes a huge impact on your enjoyment of the palace. Well, that and whether you like platformers in general. I had the charm and do like platformers, so I enjoyed the experience.

Everything was fair and 90% of the jumps were deliberate, very little of it required you to be fast, just precise. It helps when you know you have infinite tries thanks to hiveblood. I think not having that pressure helps a lot psychologically.

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Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 11 days!


I beat the Fools' Challenge on my second try and cleared the White Palace in thirty minutes and I'd say the latter is way worse because of how inexplicable it is. The rest of the game's zones feel fairly organic (the Deepnest is kind of a stretch but I guess that anyplace that's meant as a domicile for spiders is going to be a house of horrors to begin with) so the King's Palace being chockablock with buzzsaws is just immersion-breaking. Why are these here? Did the King hire a really overzealous home-security bug and didn't have the heart to tell him when enough was enough?

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