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SirSamVimes posted:Your options: And also, how do I deal with Crystal Hunters in areas that have just few narrow platforms and death pit below?
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May 29, 2017 23:34
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If you're going to Deepnest make sure you have the lantern that can be bought from the merchant. Otherwise your life is going to be miserable. Deepnest is a dark, sprawling maze consisting of very narrow passages filled with aggressive enemies. It is extremely hostile. Its also my favorite area in the game and I did it with only one nail upgrade so I recommend going there 
Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 23:46 on May 29, 2017 |
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May 29, 2017 23:44
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Deepnest has lots of little crawlers and spiders that burrow / come out of the background. I only had one nail upgrade and was alright, but it tends to be tense since enemies can pop out of nowhere. A few of the sewer enemies annoyed me more though. I wasn't bothered by Crystal Peak except for the mid-boss guarding the bench, who seemed overly difficult for some reason.
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May 30, 2017 00:09
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Lakitu7 posted:Deepnest has lots of little crawlers and spiders that burrow / come out of the background. I only had one nail upgrade and was alright, but it tends to be tense since enemies can pop out of nowhere. A few of the sewer enemies annoyed me more though. I wasn't bothered by Crystal Peak except for the mid-boss guarding the bench, who seemed overly difficult for some reason. Just wait for round two.
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May 30, 2017 00:12
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Yeah, I ran into that one on the way back up there to get ore for the third nail upgrade. I tried a few times and decided to skip it until later. I'm not sure why they decided to make that guy so much more difficult than lots of the others.
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May 30, 2017 00:16
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skasion posted:Just wait for round two. That boss has two stages?? Or is this in regards to Deepnest? Sininu fucked around with this message at 00:25 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 00:23
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No, but after beating him the first time he runs away. He can be fought again in a nearby area that requires the double jump upgrade to reach. There's no real reason to feel obligated to fight his second form anytime soon, or at all. Its just the same fight but sped up with more damage and all he guards is a mask shard.
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May 30, 2017 00:25
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SinineSiil posted:Thank you, could you describe Deepnest Hell a bit? I have upgraded my nail once. Some areas of Deepnest have constantly spawning enemies that take about four hits to kill with an unupgraded nail. Other areas have an enemy that has a ton of HP, deal 2 damage and are only vulnerable for brief periods. As for Crystal Hunters, you can reflect the shards they throw at you by hitting them. Internet Kraken posted:No, but after beating him the first time he runs away. He can be fought again in a nearby area that requires the double jump upgrade to reach. There's no real reason to feel obligated to fight his second form anytime soon, or at all. Its just the same fight but sped up with more damage and all he guards is a mask shard. I feel like explicitly describing a boss fight and what rewards it has should be spoiler tagged.
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May 30, 2017 00:31
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How do I get out of here?  There's a way to left in Ancient Basin, but I think I couldn't go far that way without double jump. Edit: Do these trees have any purpose? 
Sininu fucked around with this message at 19:56 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 19:52
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SinineSiil posted:How do I get out of here? Getting stuck in the basin without the tram pass has to be this game's equivalent to getting all the way to the bottom of Tomb of the Giants without the Lordvessel. You can absolutely jump up back up the way you came from where you are, but it will take a bit of dicey wall jumping. It definitely took me a number of deaths to get the hang of it. The trees are optional platforming challenge content, hit them with your dream nail if you have it.
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May 30, 2017 19:58
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skasion posted:Getting stuck in the basin without the tram pass has to be this game's equivalent to getting all the way to the bottom of Tomb of the Giants without the Lordvessel.
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May 30, 2017 19:59
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SinineSiil posted:Oh god no! Noooo! Do you have the crystal dash? If you do, you should be able to access an upgrade in the Basin that'll make it easier to climb the elevator shaft.
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May 30, 2017 20:09
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One Hundred Monkeys posted:Do you have the crystal dash? If you do, you should be able to access an upgrade in the Basin that'll make it easier to climb the elevator shaft. I do have Crystal Dash, but somehow missed that upgrade. Is that on the far left side of Basin?
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May 30, 2017 20:11
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SinineSiil posted:I do have Crystal Dash, but somehow missed that upgrade. Is that on the far left side of Basin? Yes. Have fun.
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May 30, 2017 20:15
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It's on the lower left side of the basin, specifically. Go to the bench pin and keep heading left.
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May 30, 2017 20:28
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Internet Kraken posted:Yes. Have fun. Beat the boss, got the upgrade and got out! Got second upgrade to my nail too! I've heard that getting that upgrade changes something about the world though? I hope it won't get rid of any shopkeepers..
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May 30, 2017 21:19
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SinineSiil posted:Beat the boss, got the upgrade and got out! Got second upgrade to my nail too! No shopkeepers disappear. Go pay a visit to the Crossroads though.
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May 30, 2017 21:31
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Yeah they really should rethink that particular jump in a patch. Personally I found it easier to downslash on the spikes to boost up a little, than to try to do it via an initial walljump.
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May 31, 2017 02:23
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Lakitu7 posted:Yeah they really should rethink that particular jump in a patch. Personally I found it easier to downslash on the spikes to boost up a little, than to try to do it via an initial walljump. My friend, let me tell you about this castle... It has a particular colour, and there's a rather distinctive noise associated with it.
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May 31, 2017 03:44
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Yeah, I know. I didn't get there yet, and I'm not looking forward to it. I'm just hoping it's not bad enough to ruin the whole game because the previous 20 hours were exceptionally good.
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May 31, 2017 03:53
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Lakitu7 posted:Yeah, I know. I didn't get there yet, and I'm not looking forward to it. I'm just hoping it's not bad enough to ruin the whole game because the previous 20 hours were exceptionally good. Eh It's really not as bad as people say. I'm not the best platformer and I got through it without it taking too much time. Here's some tips though if you need. HiveBlood + Grubsong mean you get infinite tries if you need them. So you only ever have to figure out a specific sequence once. There are benches so this isn't necessary but it certainly helps. Also remember you can bounce off stuff with your downswing, there are certain parts where downswings make things MUCH easier. There are skippable parts, either by downswing bouncing over stuff or going through breakable walls. So feel free to try stuff out. Also last note, there are like 2-3 secret rooms with interesting things in them. You don't need any of them (there are no items beyond the one you are there to get) but they can be fun so don't be in a rush if you don't want it. You could also look up the rooms in youtube too.
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May 31, 2017 04:42
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Just get the hiveblood charm before doing it. It sucks but it sucks a lot less when you effectively have infinite tries. Its not worth trying to do it "legit".
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May 31, 2017 05:19
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Internet Kraken posted:Just get the hiveblood charm before doing it. It sucks but it sucks a lot less when you effectively have infinite tries. Its not worth trying to do it "legit". What do you mean legit? You've got charms to help you, that's what they're there for. Doing a boss fight without any charms equipped is not somehow more legitimate than using the actual game mechanics, and neither would this. As for charm tips, I found Grubsong and Deepfocus, maybe also with that one that makes spells cost less, to be really helpful
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May 31, 2017 05:40
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Umm. Are we the bad guys?
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May 31, 2017 12:02
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:Umm. Are we the bad guys? Could be worse
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May 31, 2017 12:16
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I haven't gotten 100% completion, but from what I gathered The Radiance created all bugs, but somehow limited them. The Pale King, Descended/reborn from the Wyrms (who apparently never die and enslaved the bugs), usurped The Radiance, and sealed it away by engineering Hollow Knights. But the Radiance got pissed and invaded dreams which spread the Infection? Seems like everyone's poo poo. Except the Seer. I like her.
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May 31, 2017 13:13
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Thanks for the tips! I do have all the charms mentioned and definitely plan on using them. I finished all the optional platforming-hell sections of Axiom Verge and Guacamelee so hopefully I'll be alright.
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May 31, 2017 13:36
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:I haven't gotten 100% completion, but from what I gathered The Radiance created all bugs, but somehow limited them. The Pale King, Descended/reborn from the Wyrms (who apparently never die and enslaved the bugs), usurped The Radiance, and sealed it away by engineering Hollow Knights. But the Radiance got pissed and invaded dreams which spread the Infection? The Radiance apparently possesses or directly controls bugs, making them basically unthinking automata. It's not entirely clear that it created them all, but it certainly created the moths in its own image. The "infection" is their natural state reasserting itself. The Wyrm/Pale King gave them minds and they betrayed the Radiance to serve him, but because the Radiance still existed in dreams, it continued to exert its influence on the bugs. Like the Seer says "Hold something in your mind and it lives on with you, but forget it and you seal it away forever. That is the only death that matters." The King tried to create his own automata from the Abyss, the Hollow Knights, to seal up the dream of the Radiance, but for some reason it just didn't work and as time went on the Radiance worked its way back out into the dreams of bugs, ruining Hallownest. This is the biggest unanswered question in the game's plot imo, together with why the player character is where they are at the start of the game.
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May 31, 2017 13:41
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Yeah, I think you can argue some parts but Radiance is absolutely a malicious entity. She enslaves everyone she touches and drives them to a violent unthinking state. Insert joke about bugs being fixated on lights here. But the pale king, who is probably also a jerk, is the one who gave the bug's their free will and ability to choose. So it seems the bugs happily accepted his rule over the Radiance. Hence why she retaliates with the infection. The infection not only robs them of their minds, it also eventually kills them. You can see that in the moss prophet room, and some other places. So by that point she is trying to genocide the entire bug race. You should feel good about taking her down.
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May 31, 2017 16:28
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Here's what I thought was going on, which might be wrong given how loving vague this game is but whatever. The Wyrm created all bugs and civilization before passing away in typical creation myth fashion. Many civilizations have risen and fallen in the grounds of Hallownest, led by bugs that carried the mark of the Wyrm. One civilization was the moths. The moths were led by a ruler that passed away into the dream, but was still revered by the moths. But when the Pale King inherited the mark of the Wyrm and built a new civilization in Hallownest, the moths abandoned their old ruler to follow him. So the ruler became pissed and transformed into the Radiance and lashed out from the dream, corrupting the minds of bugs lured to its light. skasion posted:This is the biggest unanswered question in the game's plot imo, together with why the player character is where they are at the start of the game. It didn't work because the Radiance existed in dreams, which the original Hollow Knight could not reach. It sealed away the Radiance by absorbing the light that was leaking from the dream world into reality, but without stopping the source it was just buying time. That's why the true ending requires you to enter the Dream and fight the Radiance directly, ending with it getting dragged down into the Abyss and completely consumed. I have no clue why you start the game at the surface though. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 20:10 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 20:07
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Internet Kraken posted:Here's what I thought was going on, which might be wrong given how loving vague this game is but whatever. I'm not convinced that the Pale King is just some guy carrying the mark of the wyrm the way that, say, the player character is (not that it is just some guy, itself, but you take my point). The moth seer claims in so many words that the King literally was a, or the, Wyrm. I'm not entirely convinced that Radiance is a normal bug either -- I suppose it could be just a moth really hopped up on Soul, but since it seems to be way more powerful than literally anything else in the world except the player character, I'm inclined to think it is something else weirder than bugs. Maybe the DLC will shed a little light on the subject  Internet Kraken posted:I have no clue why you start the game at the surface though. I guess there doesn't have to be any special reason since there's various hollow knights and apparently related entities scattered all over: the poor guy Hornet shanked in Greenpath, presumably Hornet herself, the runty Abyss siblings, Broken Vessel/Lost Kin, The Collector, Nosk. I guess one just found its way outside.
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May 31, 2017 20:37
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Doesn't the moth say that the bugs of what would be Hallownest revered Radiance before the Wyrm built it's civilisation and that's part of why Radiance is so pissed, so to speak.
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May 31, 2017 21:33
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Knorth posted:Doesn't the moth say that the bugs of what would be Hallownest revered Radiance before the Wyrm built it's civilisation and that's part of why Radiance is so pissed, so to speak. Yeah actually. The seer says outright that the Radiance came first, created the moths, and then the Wyrm/Pale King showed up, turned the moths against the Radiance, and created the kingdom of Hallownest. Bardoon also has some remarks which only make sense if that was the sequence of events. And one of the Relic Seeker's dialogues mentions that the Arcane Eggs and the Soul-holding statues scattered around the world are remnants of a pre-Hallownest civilization.
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May 31, 2017 21:42
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I reread a bunch of dialogue to try and figure out what was going on exactly. Turns out I misinterpreted a bunch of stuff, but now I think I get it...mostly. So there are these great beasts in the world known as wyrms. Wyrms are incredibly powerful, primal beings that seem to be a part of the world itself. When a wyrm dies it reincarnates in another form, and these forms have influenced the history of Hallownest for generations. The Pale King was one of the beings born from a wyrm, and I'm gonna assume the Radiance was as well. Mister Mushroom's dream poem implies that a lot of wyrms have led bug civilizations in their reincarnated forms, so those two are probably just the most recent. The Radiance shaped the moths in its image and was worshiped by them. It created a civilization that was as grand as Hallownest itself, but eventually it faded away into the dream. The moths tried to keep its memory alive, but then the Pale King showed up and tried to make his own civilization. He tried to cover up all evidence of the past one to assert the dominance of his own. The moths began to worship him and forgot about the Radiance. The Radiance still existed in the dream though, got pissed off that nobody cared about it anymore, and started to infect everything with a plague that unified them under its light. The Pale King tried to create the Hollow Knight's to seal it away but that plan did not work well in the long run, at least until the player showed up to fix everything.
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May 31, 2017 23:04
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Massive spoilers. Insects exist and have minds and societies outside of Hallownest (The mantises and deepnest existed before and after, for example). The warning about bugs losing their minds appears to be specific to Void-created ("higher") beings. It also appears to be inaccurate, as the player character is identified as a void that is notable for having left Hallownest and come back. The order of civilizations appears to be roughly as follows. 1. Void. ?????? There's a civilization down there somewhere, and it's antagonistic to the Radiance. Entities within the void, despite what other NPCs say, do seem to have some form of independent identity, but at the time of the game this is mostly as specks in a great mass. Snail imagery appears in a fair amount of Void civ stuff, sugesting ties to the Shaman npcs. 2. The Radiance. The Radiance probably destroyed the Void civilization. Radiance's rule is less a civilization than a horrifying mesmeric slave cult built on Radiance absolutely controlling everyone it touches. The moths were the main figures in that civilization. 3. Hallownest. Wyrm dies and is reborn as the White King. The King destroys the old civilization and forces Radiance into the realm of dreams. He builds a new civilization in Hallownest, which is really well-developed. 4. Radiance reasserts itself in the dreams of insects all over Hallownest, preying on their internal worlds and turning them against the King. The King, who appears to be immune to this, tries a number of different things to isolate Hallownest from the Radiance, some of them really desperate. These include, in roughly this order: killing dissidents who are being manipulated by the radiance, having a child with Harrah, the whole hollow knight thing, locking down the City, removing the Palace into a separate dream space. Somewhere during 3 and 4, the King hits on using the Void to create servants for a number of different roles, a process that they don't seem to be exactly hostile to. It's worth noting that from things like the statue in the City, the King both respects void entities and does in fact view them as individuals, at least while they're masked.
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May 31, 2017 23:50
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So one thing that confuses me is what exactly caused Hallownest's fall? After the Hollow Knight sealed away the radiance for however long it was before the game starts, the civilization apparently lasted long enough for a statue to be built for it, yet somehow Hallownest fell and the White King pulled his palace into the dream world and died for some reason even though the Radiance was gone at the moment?
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Jun 1, 2017 00:46
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Eopia posted:So one thing that confuses me is what exactly caused Hallownest's fall? After the Hollow Knight sealed away the radiance for however long it was before the game starts, the civilization apparently lasted long enough for a statue to be built for it, yet somehow Hallownest fell and the White King pulled his palace into the dream world and died for some reason even though the Radiance was gone at the moment? The Radiance slowly leaking out just caused the downfall of Hallownest over time. For whatever reason the King left/died, which meant he wasn't able to take measures against it.
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Jun 1, 2017 00:55
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Eopia posted:So one thing that confuses me is what exactly caused Hallownest's fall? After the Hollow Knight sealed away the radiance for however long it was before the game starts, the civilization apparently lasted long enough for a statue to be built for it, yet somehow Hallownest fell and the White King pulled his palace into the dream world and died for some reason even though the Radiance was gone at the moment? The original Hollow Knight was an imperfect vessel. Though it succeeded in sealing away the Radiance for a time, it eventually began to poison the minds of Hollownest's inhabitants from within the dream. The King tried to delay this further by convincing 3 powerful bugs to give up their physical forms and strengthen the seal as dreamers. Even that didn't work forever, and by the time you return to Hallownest the seal has weakened to the point where basically every creature's mind is infected, and soon the infection becomes physical as well. The King retreated into the dream because his plans had failed and he was overcome with grief and shame. I originally thought this was because the Radiance would always break free without being defeated in the dream, but the game implies otherwise. The White Lady seems to think that you could serve as a perfect, permanent seal. The original Hollow Knight was imperfect and the Radiance was only able to leak out because of that. "I implore you, usurp the Vessel. Its supposed strength was ill-judged. It was tarnished by an idea instilled. But you. You are free of such blemishes. You could contain that thing inside." No idea what that is talking about.
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Jun 1, 2017 01:09
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I mean just because she thinks you could contain it indefinitely doesn't mean you could.
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Jun 1, 2017 01:11
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^^^I'm completely unconvinced the White Lady is trustworthy. She doesn't have a firm grasp on what is going on right outside her door and for all we know might have had something to do with the Radiance to begin with. I feel they look similar and her monomania for procreation reminds me of Radiance's control-freakery but maybe that's just me.Eopia posted:So one thing that confuses me is what exactly caused Hallownest's fall? After the Hollow Knight sealed away the radiance for however long it was before the game starts, the civilization apparently lasted long enough for a statue to be built for it, yet somehow Hallownest fell and the White King pulled his palace into the dream world and died for some reason even though the Radiance was gone at the moment? The Hollow Knight's seal simply wasn't effectual. It isn't clear to me why not -- sure he didn't have a dream nail, so didn't enter the dream to stop the Radiance at the source, but I don't see why the king didn't just have it get the dream nail and do the deed -- if not do it himself. After all, you're a hollow knight and you do it just fine. In any event, after some indefinite interval the HK got filled up with Radiance and ceased to function as a seal. The Radiance's mind controlling light/"bad air"/gas/spores/lightseeds/whatever broke out from the dream into the minds of bugs and drove them insane. It's only at this point that the civilization of Hallownest finally collapses with almost everywhere succumbing to the Radiance, with only isolated locales like the Mantis village or Dirtmouth, and exceptionally strong willed individuals like Dungbro or the Seer surviving unscathed. The King seals off the city itself, repairs to his palace and magics it into the dream as either a means of escaping the Radiance's possession or as a final gently caress-everything gesture. Meanwhile his three Lords (? does the game ever give them a collective name?) themselves enter the dream (at his behest?) to serve as makeshift seals on the Radiance. Then a while after that the game begins.
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Jun 1, 2017 01:15
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