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Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Got this game on sale, and over the course of like 3 play sessions I've logged 10 hours. Just came back to Forgotten Crossroads to find it had become Infected Crossroads, which blew my mind.

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Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Y'all had me scared about the White Palace but yeah... comparisons to I Wanna Be the Guy and Super Meat Boy and stuff are not very accurate.

I actually was particularly confused by the place because it often seemed like the paths that let you skip a ton of the platforming were waaay more obvious to me than the actual intended paths. So I ended up looping back around and making sure I wasn't missing anything and just ended up minorly annoyed.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:

so in other words he dreams a shitload
this poster is implying that Zote lies frequently!!! i think

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Whew, just finished getting the Steel Heart achievement (100% completion in Steel Soul), and also picked up Speed Completion. There were a couple of times super far into the run where I got WAAAY too close to dying... pretty sure I would have just uninstalled at that point.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

I Said No posted:

Which, out of curiosity? For me i'd say Trial of the Fool, Elder Hu, Marmu, and the Watcher Knights.
For me it was completely random and stupid poo poo. I tried to do the Delicate Flower quest before opening the door in Queen's Garden that makes it reasonable. So I went the long way around and got all panicky when the doors closed and I realized there was a multi-mob fight there. I was so frustrated about the quest that I almost let myself die before realizing what I was doing.

And the other was in that long open passage around the entrance of the Ancient Basin. There are a bunch of those flying soldier guys, and I messed up like 3 times in a row, getting hit and also falling onto spikes, so I only had 1 health. So I backed off to safety, breathed a sigh of relief...... and then a lance flew at me from off screen. I may have screamed.


I ended up having no trouble with bosses; I think I just farmed up stuff really well so I was always overpowered for what I was getting into.

Also, Path of Pain and Speed Run 2 completed!

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Woop woop, 100% achievement completion. Nightmare King was a super fun way to finish all the game's content.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

I decided to do all the Radiant (i.e. no-hit) boss challenges in the Hall of Champions because I have brainworms, and it's crazy how fun the Grimm and NK Grimm fights are. I never once felt cheated even though I got wrecked a ton, and I learned that Grubberfly's Elegy is just insanely good for doing damage while playing defensively.

Markoth can gently caress off though. Brothers Oro and Mato took me way too long and I raged a lot, but Markoth has by far the stupidest Radiant fight... it's just awful. He moves like a complete dickhead, loving swords spawn off screen, he has almost no safe openings once he's got two shields out... man that was awful. I still need to encounter Pantheon five stuff though so maybe it'll be worse.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Welp I got it done. All Bosses cleared on Radiant, pantheon five cleared... at first I thought the bindings were needed to unlock the last pantheon, so I did 8 of them, but I guess it was nice to get some extra health.

What an insanely great game. When Godmaster came out I thought it seemed like one step too far in terms of difficulty, and took a long break before trying it. Now that I've finally done it though, aside from a couple of bullshit radiant fights I'm just blown away at how well the game holds up when it's just pure combat.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

BBJoey posted:

But have you done pantheon 5 with all bindings for the very last item in the game?
Ugh. I wish I didn't know this existed.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

I'm one binding away from the Weathered Mask, and only just found out the last Pantheon has a stupid little glowy jewel thing that lights up if you're a crazy person and manage to do all four bindings at once. I think..... I think I'm gonna have to be satisfied not lighting up the stupid jewel.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

I Said No posted:

Honestly the bindings don't add challenge so much as they just make the fights take loving forever, with the exception of health bind.
Errrr gotta disagree pretty hard there. Charms make the game super easy, taking them away is massive. Only being able to heal one health at any point makes mistakes hugely punishing. Nail binding is not very fun, but making a fight longer also totally adds room for error if you get in a tight spot. And if you're good enough that the other three don't matter, health won't matter either!

Also update: fighting Zote right after Markoth is insanely terrible.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

I definitely find PV waaay easier with jumping. Doesn't he pause before unleashing his three-slash attack sometimes? I dunno it fucks with me, whereas there's not really anything that punishes you for jumping.

Anyway...

:toot:

I might try some of the other pantheons with all bindings, but doing all of #5 with them seems like it would be kinda anti-fun. Especially with how most people who ever cleared it did so back when Nail Art damage was bugged to ignore the Nail Binding. In other words I'm pretty done with this amazing game.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Logan 5 posted:

Uh, pantheon deaths definitely leave a spirit, it is always in the small room to the left of the bench instead of in the arena. Presumably to make it easier to get after you die, but it seems to me like a lot of people miss this. So yeah, those deaths would count.
Are you referring to the trials? Pantheon, i.e. Godmaster stuff, doesn't leave a spirit afaik

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Bust Rodd posted:

Hollow Knight is one of the only games that I’ve ever beaten and still feel bad at.
The real ending of the game is getting the Weathered Mask. You won't feel bad after getting it!

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Actually the tired meme is the "white palace is just stupid I Wanna Be the Guy level sadistic difficulty" stuff. For lots of difficult platformer players it's just another fun part of the game that takes like 20 minutes.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

I felt the same way about Godmaster for several months, but once I actually started it I got hooked pretty quickly. When it really clicks that almost every boss is very well-designed for fighting them without ever getting hit, it doesn't feel quite as daunting to go through a ton of them at once.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

More like the Path of Complain

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Also the flame column attack is the easiest place to get a bunch of hits in so it's good not to rely on it for healing.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

lets hang out posted:

hey what the gently caress was wrong with the people who made this game when they made markoth
maybe they hate some guy named mark and wanted to emphasize that moths are serious business in hollow knight

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

C-Euro posted:

Finally beat The Eternal Ordeal

What a hilarious and also horrifying battle
Ugh, of course there's one more thing I didn't realize you could do in this game.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Holy crap, Ori and the Will of the Wisps (the sequel to Ori and the Blind Forest) came out a couple days ago and it's like a lovechild of the original and Hollow Knight. I'd be offended at the amount that's borrowed if I didn't love it.

For those who haven't played the original Ori, it's a platformer Metroidvania game with a heavy emphasis on the platforming, less emphasis on combat; you just press a button to shoot projectiles that automatically target the nearest enemy. You get experience points that upgrade skills along one of three paths, and getting every upgrade is pretty expected. You do a ton of exploring for health/energy upgrades and do a lot of avoiding deadly obstacles while platforming.

Now the sequel has come along and the combat is much more fleshed out with a sword being your first weapon (even including downward attacks that let you pogo on enemies), the healing system from Hollow Knight is given almost immediately, there are more NPCs with extremely HK-like dialogue sounds, the points you get are much more of a Geo-like currency rather than XP for levels, there's a mapmaker wandering around who you have to buy maps from, and... basically a replica of HK's charm system. Admittedly so far I haven't encountered any charms that take up multiple slots, but otherwise it is extremely similar with the addition of some charms being upgradeable.

The original Ori was truly a great game in many ways but for fans of Hollow Knight I think the sequel is just gonna be nearly perfect. I'm only an hour in but it seems fantastic.

Martman fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Mar 13, 2020

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Bleck posted:

stop, stop it, my body can only become so aroused
also it's free with Xbox PC Game Pass :getin:

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Rand Brittain posted:

Would I want to play the original first?
It is extremely worth a playthrough, and if you completely hate it then you probably won't be into the sequel either. It has excellent art, music and sound, even if (like me) you don't get completely sucked in by the cutesy characters. It's also pretty short; I did everything there is to do in it including a ridiculous no-death run and have 26 hours of playtime.

One of the main things that I could see being an issue is that as it ramps up the difficulty there are a ton of instant death mechanics, which can definitely annoy fans of Hollow Knight. It lets you create checkpoints pretty much at will though, and overall I'd say HK is a lot harder.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Two years is a pretty long time, but hey you never know when something will click.

The game does sometimes require you to really commit to certain playstyles, and for most bosses that means accepting that your opportunities to heal are extremely limited. I think a lot of players get tricked by the healing system into thinking that being offensive will also result in being able to heal more, and then constantly find themselves in a panicked state of trying to be more and more recklessly offensive hoping it will get them further. Sometimes you'll even get pretty far in the fight that way, but it may not really be building up the kind of habits that will actually carry you all the way.

Honestly if there's any one thing to do to practice, I'd suggest that you try going into the boss fight and just dodging her attacks. Don't throw a single attack of your own; just see how good you can get at not taking damage, for as long as you feel comfortable. Only once you're getting in the groove of dodging everything should you see how you can fit in attacks safely.

My girlfriend has a ton of trouble with platformers and precision combat stuff and I really thought she was getting brick-walled by the Hornet fight, but that defense-first strategy really seemed to help her mentally develop her offense over time instead of just panicking every single fight.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

One more thing, it's definitely possible to get 4 mask shards for a health upgrade before you encounter Hornet, but I can see why you wouldn't expect that. There are two that you've probably gotten from the shop, and I'll spoiler some other available ones:

Defeat the Brooding Mawlek in Forgotten Crossroads. The door to his area is right below the entrance to Greenpath. The path is very spiky and may look unpassable for now, but you can bounce along the spikes by attacking downward on them. If you're into platforming as you say, this isn't actually that hard! Brooding Mawlek isn't exactly a pushover at that point in the game, but it's a drastically slower fight than Hornet. Once you learn what to do it is a much less in-your-face panicky fight.

You get one shard for collecting 5 grubs and checking with grubdad; I think by the time you're at Hornet there should be 6 or 7 of these reasonably available. One or two might require messing with bouncing on spikes and stuff, but I think you can get 5 without any crazy tricks.

There's a mask shard in a darkened area in Greenpath; if you get the Lumafly Lantern for 1800 Geo you can see better in dark areas. Farming up 1800 geo seems like it would be pretty lame at this point though.

There's actually another one in Forgotten Crossroads, but getting it is pretty tricky at this point in the game. It's in the hallway below the False Knight area, and normally you need later movement skills to get in the secret passage leading to it. Getting to it now requires kiting a fly near the passage and bouncing off it for extra height; I feel like the first two methods are a lot more reasonable and this one feels a bit silly to go out of your way for at this point, so maybe look up a map on your own if you wanna do this one.


Getting an extra health could actually make a big difference. Good luck bug bro.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Oof I didn't remember the flies getting killed by the centipede things. Your post inspired me to reinstall the game real quick to make sure I'm not giving terrible advice, and yeah it is possible... but you pretty much have to kite the fly up and over the centipedes by pogoing on them. It's very much doable but it's also annoying and fiddly and then afterwards you have to go through a section where you'll probably take at least two or three more hits. At that point if you're gonna do one of these methods I'd recommend the first, because that u-bend you're referring to is actually the only part that requires the spike bounce. Now, to be honest, the Brooding Mawlek is fairly hard at that point in the game. On replaying it just now I'm not sure it's worth recommending as an alternative to Hornet. It's slow in some ways, but still requires very quick responses to a couple of its moves and takes a bunch of hits.

Sorry to lead you on a wild goose chase, but I wouldn't want you to go crazy doing any of these methods when Hornet's still gonna Hornet. Maybe try getting past the spike bounce section once and see what you think of the boss there.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

I feel like randomizers particularly make sense as a branch or offshoot of the speed run community. They seem particularly geared towards players who are already spending time thinking about planning routes through games for efficiency, breaking down games into discrete segments, doing things out of order if it's useful, etc.

I dunno, it helped me understand why someone would be interested in that in games where it could seem weird otherwise.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Fargin Icehole posted:

I decided to pick this back after almost two years. I know I have completed the Trial of the fool last time, As far as I know, I have every mobile upgrade, I picked up the swim in acid upgrade well after finishing all the map and boss areas where it really would've been easier. I'm at 1205 essence, at 89% completion, and the old lady wants me to reach 1500 essence. I have absolutely no idea what to do next.
In addition to the Warrior Dreams, some normal bosses will have a Dream Nail-able ghost fight in their arena after you've defeated them.

Check out Broken Vessel (boss before acquiring double jump) and Soul Master's (dude at the top of the Soul Sanctum in the City) arenas

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Cartoon Man posted:

Anybody on our forums actually done this?
I've beaten Pantheon of Hallownest with each binding separately, not all together. You still get the Weathered Mask for that, the only thing you get specifically for "all bindings at once" is that its entrance gets a special glowy effect just like the others.

As I understand it, the game was patched around... a year ago? to fix an issue where Nail Art damage wasn't affected by the Nail Binding. I think a lot of people who did the "all-bindings" run were using that to make it way more feasible, and it being patched out really discourages me from trying.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

MJeff posted:

Is Sharp Shadow affected by the Nail binding?
According to https://hollowknight.fandom.com/wiki/Pantheons it is not! Along with Thorns of Agony, Dreamshield, and maybe others? I dunno.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

I had the same experience with Steel Soul 100% being way easier and more pleasant than expected, then when Godhome came along I noped out and figured they had hosed up and made something too obnoxiously hard. When I finally came back and went for it, I fell in love with the game all over again. If you're really into the combat, Godhome can blow you away with how well-designed almost every fight is. (there are like 2 bullshit ones so yeah)

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Seriously, Markoth is annoying but no fight gave me more of a panicky fear of utterly choking than Zote in Pantheon of Hallownest. I think I lost at least a couple runs to him.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Zote uses the most powerful move in almost any 2D platformer enemy's moveset, which is "occasionally run straight at your face while holding a sword out"

Really though he felt the hardest to predict to me, and on top of that he specifically fucks with you with his dive-through-the-floor move in a way that just gets in my head and freaks me out

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

I'd like to invest all my Geo with the burglar bug, please

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Zaphod42 posted:

This month, chief. Its almost over.
This month was next month last month, buddy

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Organza Quiz posted:

Without wanting to set off ten pages of Difficulty In Games Discourse, are there any decent mods for HK that make it easier? Like healing or damage reduction or not having to walk-of-shame back to bosses before you get dreamgate. I have a friend who loves the aesthetic of the game, it's exactly their thing, but they're just getting frustrated with the difficulty of it and it doesn't have a convenient godmode option like Hades does. Any chance the fan community has stepped in to fill the gap?
Just googling Hollow Knight Easy Mode mod led me to a steam discussion thread where someone described what sounds like the most popularly available general "easy mode" mod:

quote:

The EasyMode Mod does the following: (info taken from ReadMe)
- All charm costs are reduced by 1.
- Sitting at a bench gives 2 free lifeblood masks.
- Nail damage is increased, using the formula dmg = 8 + 5 * upgrades. (instead of dmg = 5 + 4 * upgrades)
- Soul collection is increased by 6 per nail hit. (with no charms, 2 hits now allows a spell or focus)
- Focus time is reduced by half.
- Dying no longer loses geo or causes a shade to spawn.
Their instructions referred to downloading a ModInstaller program from NexusMods, but it seems like that one might not be available from that site anymore. I just feel kind of weird recommending any of this because I haven't personally tested any of it myself, so you'd be running random code that I can't vouch for, but apparently the modding stuff has maybe been focused in a very popular Hollow Knight discord channel: https://discord.gg/hollowknight

Again, a part of me feels weird directing people to some random discord that I can't vouch for to download stuff, but this one has like 75,000 members and I get the impression from Youtubers mentioning it etc. that it might just be the place to go for this stuff.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Organza Quiz posted:

Ha I was just coming back to edit my post to say I found that! It looks like the mod installer is still available from Nexusmods to me? It also appears to have the mods that people use for running randomiser bingo races, so seems popular and therefore probably safe to me.
Weird... I coulda sworn it wasn't showing up earlier, but yeah you're right. I dunno if that mod is tweakable in case it's too easy or still too hard or anything, but I guess it seems solid?

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Mover posted:

this rules


Ori and the Hole Full of Gross Bugs

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Absolute Radiance is hard as gently caress, not gonna sugarcoat it, but imo it's surprisingly fair after how busted it feels when first learning it. By far the hardest part is being consistent about manipulating the orbs he shoots, and indeed sometimes they will behave in some really bullshit-feeling ways, but it is overall not too awful in terms of letting you get damage in and even healing a bit.

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Martman
Nov 20, 2006

Is Gordon Freeman made of void?

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