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Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
Hahaha I was trying to take a small mafia break but I just read the description of this and can't say no.

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Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
I'm still laughing at this game's flavor - I turned down a job at a knife manufacturing company near Portland a few weeks ago. Apparently it was a good choice!

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
I Understand That I Am A Doublevoter.

its me glenda posted:

it was an inside job lets go after the person the frickin company is named after

Suck it

##vote glenda
##vote glenda

On a more serious note, I think 100's reaction to PMom's VT claim is relatively innocuous.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Pinterest Mom posted:

Every time

and I'm being very deliberate here, I'm not exaggerating

Every time someone has given me poo poo about claiming VT in my opening post, they've turned up scum, and I've always regretted not following my gut and pursuing them to the end of the earth. Giving me poo poo about that opening post is a really easy way for scum to fake content, and 100yrs' claimed thought process around it makes not even a tiny lick of sense.

This is a really convincing argument - like I didn't think 100 was scum at first but on a re-read

100YrsofAttitude posted:

I'd love for that to be true, but I won't be cross-referencing every game to find it and I won't ask you to do so either because that's ridiculous.

Besides, you won't find me making fake content because I do always participate.

No one likes to hear it, but this time you are wrong.

This post just sounds unnaturally defensive for this early in the game.

##unvote2
##vote2 100

Since I don't actually want to use my doublevote to rush anything I'm just going to symbolically keep it on glenda.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

its me glenda posted:

murmur twin has extra votes i have ptsd

##unvote

It's been like 5 years exactly since that Awful Survivor game right? Good times :j:

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

100YrsofAttitude posted:

I am absolutely not a scrub. I'm not a buster, I work hard for the little money I make, I'll never holler at women, I'm not the snappiest dresser but I don't look like trash, I live on my own, and sure I may be car-less, but I have no need of one where I live (I'll still get one anyway when I can because I miss driving something awful), and I give my companion all the love I can.

Call me scum if you like, you'd be wrong too, but I am 100% not a scrub. It's not cool to be called that in such an unwarranted manner. Geeze.

Hahahahaha yessssss

tpink posted:

MT is a really good mafia player, so now I don't know what to think about 100yrs. :sigh:

Hi tpink! I'm now nervous that you calling me good is scum buttering me up so tell me what your thought process is on 100 :)

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
Also I was hoping to be scum this game so I could fakeclaim miller, but oh well.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

The Lord of Hats posted:

Also MMT are you a doublevoter because you are the literal Murmur Twins and therefore two people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxc7S2EyMGk

this is a stickup posted:

I am raising one eyebrow at this post, intensely

You see because the company is called Murmur Twins & Co, I figured pre-game that it would be a funny play that I could make if need be. But it needn't.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

TMMadman posted:

I will say that while it's clear that MMT is a doublevoter, I'm a little concerned about her because of this in the games starting post:

I don't think it's really something to chase after right now, but it might be something to think about in the future. On one hand, it would be a pretty bold move for scum to use that power coming right out of the game, but on the other hand, I think it's also a bit reckless to use that power right out of the gate as town too.

Can you talk about why you decided to out yourself as a doublevoter right away MMT?

I've never been a doublevoter before so I'm kind of making up strategy as I go along :j: My thought process was:

(a) After seeing Tao's flip I figured there are multiple probably multiple doublevoters in the game so I figured I'd put it out there and see how people react.
(b) I don't really see it as all that great of an ability - like to me the whole idea of town is to have an argument capable of convincing a majority, not taking over the vote. I thought about it and don't think there's any huge advantage to keeping it secret.
(c) I think doublevoter is like barely better than VT (maybe I'm wrong here?) so I don't feel like it's information that needs to be protected (like if I were a cop or doctor or something).

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Pinterest Mom posted:

Except inasmuch as mmt's "if I were scum" mirrors the first paragraph.

I mean, I thought the tell with the pera thing was that the tone of her posts was significantly different than that way she posts as town. It's up to people here to decide if I relayed the "I thought it'd be funny to claim miller" anecdote because I'm nervous scum or because I'm town just stream-of-consciousing on D1.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

its me glenda posted:

##vote merk

almost didnt see you in this game

I get that you're throwing your vote around to generate reactions but this feels like a scum101 post. If I hadn't been jokevoting you before I'd vote you here for real.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
Hah, nice.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

CCKeane posted:

The Robot Life Is Very Whacky. Shooting From The Hip Shaft, Madman Stands Out.


This Is Awful And Exists Only To Plant Seeds Of Doubt. This Is Also Relating Entirely To A Verifiable Role, So It Isn't Something That Can Be Defended Against. If This Was Made In Conjunction With Comments On MMT'S Behavior, I Would Be Less Suspicious, However As It Stands It Is Throwing Suspicion On MMT In A Way That Can Never Be Defended Against. I Don't Think It Is Reasonable, But I Do Think It Is Something That Scum Can Do To Test Waters And Try To Push A Vote Eventually, Especially As It Is Phrased Here.

Beep Boop I Eat Oil.

Calling it now: Keane is a venture capital-ist.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

The Lord of Hats posted:

Also MMT are you a doublevoter because you are the literal Murmur Twins and therefore two people?

100YrsofAttitude posted:

It's not so much you're posting like a beginner because you're not so don't try to hide behind that defense. Your post here features a very pointed question. Why worry what MMT is or isn't? If anything it'd be super easy to verify once Ecco does their first vote count. I still feel good about voting you so far.

This post reads like scum 100 trying to drive a mislynch on town Hats. 100 is taking Hats' post way more seriously than is warranted, and looks more like an attempt to justfiy a fake read there than it does a real opinion.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

TMMadman posted:

I'm pretty satisfied with this answer to my question. Thanks MMT.

:words:

I do think it's more likely for you to be town with the way you came right out of the gate and used it because I think scum usually want to keep the double vote a secret and hope to spring it on town at an opportune time. Like if a scum buddy was close to be lynched and a scum double vote would either lynch someone else or put them at -1.

TMMadman posted:

I don't know if I could define Pmoms meta because he usually plays the same way regardless of alignment. Or maybe more accurately, he's got a few different play styles that he uses regardless of alignment.

I usually just go with my initial gut feeling and then adjust it if necessary. Personally, I think Pmom is town because of some gut feels and I don't think a scum Pmom comes out of the gate that hard.

TMM being polite instead of argumentative is like my #1 scum tell for him. This is combined with the fact he's called PMom and myself town without making any scum calls or cases yet.

##unvote Glenda
##vote TMM

Also for the record my intention right now is to play being a doublevoter by just keeping 1 vote each on my two strongest scum reads unless a situation arises where it's necessary for me to break a tie. (Ecco - I'll just name the person I'm unvoting when I do so, that seems easiest)

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

TMMadman posted:

No offense but go gently caress yourself MMT. I'm am so tired of this meta because it gets brought up all the time and it's why I've basically stopped playing. I just want to join a game where I can relax, have something to read a bit while working and occasionally comment or question people.

We're in a game where people roll scum and all I'm doing is suggesting, on d1, that I have reason to believe you (someone who has fooled me in the past) might be one. I'm not trying to actually hurt your feelings or anything! :ohdear:

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

TMMadman posted:

It's personal but not personal.

It's because MMT constantly does this bullshit 'purity' test on me in just about every game. And this is despite the fact that I've fooled her before by playing angry after she's said I'm scum for being calm/polite.

Like, just to be completely straight-up about it - I think you're scum, both because of your content (town reads) and because of your reaction to a very loose d1 case on you.

But I'm put off at the idea that you will actually get angry at me if I try and case you and don't know how to proceed because at the end of the day this is all about having fun.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

TMMadman posted:

I have said I think 2 out of 24 people are likely to be town AND I gave my reasons for thinking that way. And those two people are probably the people I've played with the most in this game outside of Kash.

And my reaction isn't really to the case so much as it is to your constant use of whether I'm polite or argumentative on D1 as your basis of it because I just think it's bullshit. Especially since I've fooled you before by getting 'angry' when you've called me polite before. Essentially, I just find it irritating as hell that you don't seem to want to even try to let me change my meta, even though I haven't even been playing lately. I mean outside of replacing into the FF4 game where I got immediately killed, I haven't played a game since the Katamari game where you took something equally as dumb called me scum. I mean yeah, I was scum in that game, but not because of the reason you picked out on D1.

Who do you think is scum and why?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
Like given that

(a) the last time I was suspicious of you I was right (Katamari) and
(b) you've said yourself that you've gotten me to back of a scum read on you by acting angry at me

I find it hard to regret opening up d1 with the "scum TMM is polite" thing because it leads to our interacting in the game and playing Mafia. I mean, right?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

TMMadman posted:

But do you understand why I'm frustrated, right? Because I don't think it leads to actual genuine interaction. It just feels like you want me pegged into a little box that you can check off instead of actually letting me play my own game.

I'm mean if I don't get irritated at your poke, then I must be scum, but if I get too irritated then I'm also scum. I don't want to have to make a billion angry posts every time I'm town just to convince people I'm town.

For you it's "Polite TMM is scum", for me it's "Murmur is manufacturing content" (which is used on me no matter what I say). People incorrectly attribute meta reads all the time to me and while I acknoweldge it's annoying, I've always just seen it as one of those things that we sign up for when we agree to play.

As you said, the last time we played I called you as scum, didn't push hard enough, and town lost -can you blame me for maybe wanting to be more critical of you in the subsequent game? Like I'll admit that even now I'm reading this conversation and wondering if we're genuinely chatting or if you're trying to manipulate me - I just find that to be fun :j:

I saw an effortpost though (and don't remember how my votes are distributed right now) so will reset to:

##unvote
##unvote2
##vote 100Years

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
I haven't read the game since whenever the last time I posted but have read through the thread and am caught up / re-reading now.

100YrsofAttitude posted:

I don't think Murmur is using their doublevote on me.

Full disclosure: I feel pretty good about the case on you and if really the only reason I'm not using my double-vote on you is because I said I wouldn't stack them. If it comes down to avoiding a no-lynch I would probably use my second vote on you.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tired Moritz posted:

stickup is scum

---

actually I suggest we kill a lurker. lurkers are always scum and an active town liability

---

he number of times people actually find scum in day 1 is much lower than townies being bad and getting lynched because they act scummy

and I had too many games where town threw because they don't want to kill lurkers for some reason. the sooner people get punished for no posting, the better and the game quality would actually increase with the days instead of reaching the dull mid point where the vocal players just lynched each other and the maf wins.

of course, you are allowed to disagree

##unvote2
##vote2 Tired Moritz

TM, after being prodded, names someone he thinks is scum (stickup). Then, instead of explaining why he said that, he makes an argument that I've only ever made as scum. It's easy to say "let's go after lurkers" as scum because he can technically tell the truth (that lurking is bad) instead of having to lie and make up a fake case. He throws a vote on Merk - at the time, the least likely person to argue back.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

TMMadman posted:

I don't think anyone else has really stood out for me just yet.

What're your opinions of me, 100, and Moritz?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tired Moritz posted:

it's a joke of my tendency to think you're scum in every game!! not this one though (for now).

Oh wait I didn't realize that the stickup vote was explained as a joke but the rest of what I said (that I feel his "let's go after lurkers!" > vote on merk was scummy) still applies.

Why didn't you think stickup was scum when you said the above?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
On one hand, I agree with the principle of going anti-lurker on D1. On the other, I feel like Hats sounds very similar to (this game) where Hats was town and was low-content / tentative / apologetic for not casing on D1.

If we're going to go after someone who hasn't really put out content (other than a joke vote for stickup and a super-convenient vote on Merk/Tobbs before he had any posts) I would strongly prefer Moritz to Hats.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tired Moritz posted:

I'm a doc *smoking emoji*

Why'd you post this?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tired Moritz posted:

I'm a doc *smoking emoji*

Also what's your flavor?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tired Moritz posted:

Saying the truth win games.

Right now, I don't have any town/scum reads so I'm very pro murder lurkers. Of course, I'm willing to jump on the lynch leader because I'm not an asshat.

Which of these sounds more likely?

(A) Moritz is a town doctor who, while not a vote leaders, decided to claim on D1 because "saying the truth wins games". He decided this outweighed the risk of the doctor getting NKed (or roleblocked or something) on N1.

(B) Moritz is scum who realized the case on him has merit and he couldn't find an acceptable fake case so he claimed doctor to dissuade people from voting for him.

I've scummed with TM before (Swan Song and in that game he tried for a fake claim to take the heat off of him. This seems very similar to that. Also in that game, he very clearly knew the value of doctors (when we discussed targets and stuff) which makes me feel reasonably sure he wouldn't have just shared that info, unprovoked on D1, if it were actually true.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Moatillata posted:

Did you miss it the first time??

I actually did, but that doesn't change my opinion.

Also I'm probably going to be asleep soon.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Uranium Phoenix posted:

The problem with (B) is that Moritz has, like, one vote and only a few people who have passingly commented on liking him for scum. There's no heat to take off. They also don't need a fake case; they could just join the bandwagon and no one would give a poo poo.

WIFOMing role possibilities and claims isn't useful at determining alignment at this point, nor a useful discussion to have overall.

I think it is, because you can look at a question like "what was Moritz's motivation for claiming doc there?". At the end of the day, the most beneficial reason for someone to claim to be a doctor (even moreso than actually being a doctor) would be so that people didn't vote for them.

Pretend you're a town doc and talk me through the thought process that would end with you claiming.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tired Moritz posted:

I don't trust PMOM's wishy washyness.

You can't just say "OH MAN I KNOW WHOEVER QUESTION MY VT CLAIM IS MAF, I GUARANTEE IT FROM MY PAST EXPERIENCE" and then just walk away because people aren't jumping onto the bandwagon. If Pmom genuinely think 100yrs is maf, I should expect them to be more pushy instead of jumping onto the hats bandwagon.

Of course some people might go "pmom always play like that" but i hate meta defenses.

What's your flavor?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Mithross posted:

It was a 3p scum team. We could have won with town if I'd lived another day (I assume. It would have been weird to end the game just because the queen was dead). We also thought from reading our role PMs we would win with town if it was just us and vanilla left with the mafia eliminated. We even discussed claiming if it came to that.

Here is Assassin chat.

Hahaha TMM you bastard! I'm making a mental note to just double down the next time I make you angry in a game so hopefully you're not actually mad next time it happens. :j:

Yeah I dunno I guess I shouldn't have shown I was a double voter (I was actually a triple voter) but at the time I really didn't think scum would care that much about a town double voter. Oops.

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Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

TMMadman posted:

Sorry MMT, please note this section from our scum doc:

Hah yeah I was wondering how you could possibly be mad at me for making that case given that you were scum the last time I made it. I think I would have gone after you if I lived so fair enough for killing me n1 :)

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