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kw0134 posted:I mean I'm pretty sure that moment was precipitated by the fact we're beating his rear end into the ground, so maybe it's the realization of "well, I made some poor life choices" but it feels like it's less a revelation than whining by someone whose rear end was, indeed, handed to him by a bunch of weirdos powered by ~*friendship*~. There's a strong vibe where he refuses to believe that all this touchy-feely bullshit means much and it's more excuses to throw out after losing badly like the loser he is. Because he's a loser. he only totally loses it when the Thieves suggest that for all his posturing he actually enjoyed the time he spent with Joker, at which point he uses his psychosis power on himself to distract from the realization that he might have had a shot at a better life despite everything and still threw it away nonetheless the script made a bit of an oopsie giving him such a high body count, because any genuine attempt to backpedal from that would take more time and effort than the game is willing to expend this far in
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Nov 22, 2018 01:15
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lol whoops, wrong thread. Akechi is totally a ratshit annoying prick tho.
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Nov 22, 2018 02:06
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I love that of all the things Cognitive Akechi could say to the guy who shot him, the thing he settles on is "you bastard!" Did Shido pick up on that too, and if so, is CogAkechi throwing it out in kind of a fatty-fatty no-parents desperation move?
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Nov 22, 2018 05:16
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Glazius posted:I love that of all the things Cognitive Akechi could say to the guy who shot him, the thing he settles on is "you bastard!" I'm guessing the translators just didn't think about it at all.
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Nov 22, 2018 05:25
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If I wasn't lazy, I'd love to comb over this whole LP and see what Vento Aureo references are in-game.
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Nov 22, 2018 06:41
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Solitair posted:I can't remember the last time I was this frustrated by video game writing. Am I crazy, or were the last two games not nearly this sloppy? P3 and P4 had its issues too, but was somewhat more consistent than P5, I think. P3 had Ken being underused outside his subplot, awful pacing, the antagonists like Ikutsuki or Strega don't really matter all that much to the story or do anything to the protagonists, and a lot of the male Social Links were either just...there, or pretty terrible. Though I do think it handles its theme of death and mortality pretty okay. P4 had Yosuke and his lovely homophobic jokes, the awful "haha I'm a fat person and terrible" and "I'm an old woman and terrible" jokes made about one of the classmates and teacher, the entire culture festival. Now the following is subjective, but I think the themes of some of the party feeling boxed in by how society views them is a hit-and-miss with some party members. Yukiko ends up being okay taking over the inn after all despite wanting freedom to explore her options. Rise goes back to the industry that made her feel so used in the first place. Kanji maybe or maybe not being gay is sidestepped and is often the butt of lovely attempts at humor. And Naoto possibly having gender dysphoria is explained as an issue with how women aren't taken seriously in the police workforce (and then there's the option to get them to wear feminine clothing if you romance Naoto).
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Nov 22, 2018 08:50
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amigolupus posted:Now the following is subjective, but I think the themes of some of the party feeling boxed in by how society views them is a hit-and-miss with some party members. Yukiko ends up being okay taking over the inn after all despite wanting freedom to explore her options. Rise goes back to the industry that made her feel so used in the first place. Kanji maybe or maybe not being gay is sidestepped and is often the butt of lovely attempts at humor. And Naoto possibly having gender dysphoria is explained as an issue with how women aren't taken seriously in the police workforce (and then there's the option to get them to wear feminine clothing if you romance Naoto). I didn't play P4 but your breakdown here makes it seem there's an unintentional theme of "come to terms with the hand you were dealt."
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Nov 22, 2018 15:47
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sudonim posted:I didn't play P4 but your breakdown here makes it seem there's an unintentional theme of "come to terms with the hand you were dealt." Sorta. In a lot of the social link's cases their problem isn't really how their lives ended up, it's that they are being forced into that choice. Yukiko, for example, loves working at the inn. She loves the staff that all treats her like their beloved daughter, she enjoys keeping part of the town's history alive, she likes making customers happy, she's even proud that she's upholding family tradition. She just resents that's she's expected to take over the inn. That she never actually had a choice in the matter and everyone simply assumes that she'll do so. When she finally realizes that she could just walk away and refuse to do it she also realizes that she doesn't really want to. She just wanted it to be her own decision instead of something that automatically happens to her.
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Nov 22, 2018 16:01
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Stroth posted:Sorta. In a lot of the social link's cases their problem isn't really how their lives ended up, it's that they are being forced into that choice. That's a good point. Looking at it that way it seems like Chie is the only one who doesn't have outside societal obligations constraining her (or, you know, isn't Teddy) and her problem is she doesn't know what she wants to do with herself aside from eat steak and watch kung fu movies. (Which I support completely.)
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Nov 22, 2018 20:48
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Chie's views on her femininity is definitely shaped by societal pressures, in an inverse of Kanji's issues with masculinity.
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Nov 22, 2018 21:12
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Chie's not terribly sensitive about being seen as un-feminine, is she? Aside from during that one pageant thing where she pretends her favorite food isn't meat.
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Nov 22, 2018 22:00
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Part of her deal is that all the other girls (especially Yukiko) are prettier/more popular/etc., which is to say more classically feminine. (There's a reason the P4A subtitle for Chie is "Carnivore Who's Discarded Womanhood".) That's sort of diluted by her other issues like being generally adrift in life, though.
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Nov 22, 2018 22:08
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kw0134 posted:Part of her deal is that all the other girls (especially Yukiko) are prettier/more popular/etc., which is to say more classically feminine. (There's a reason the P4A subtitle for Chie is "Carnivore Who's Discarded Womanhood".) That's sort of diluted by her other issues like being generally adrift in life, though. I thought her P4A subtitle was "Spunky Dragon With Deadly Legs"?
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Nov 23, 2018 00:10
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kw0134 posted:Part of her deal is that all the other girls (especially Yukiko) are prettier/more popular/etc., which is to say more classically feminine. (There's a reason the P4A subtitle for Chie is "Carnivore Who's Discarded Womanhood".) That's sort of diluted by her other issues like being generally adrift in life, though. Yeah, it's definitely there while not being her Main Thing although there is kind of a touching/sad bit in Golden where if you take her on the Valentine's Day date she's all "compared to Yukiko and Rise and Naoto you picked ME." I wanted to tell her, Chie, you want to be a Jackie Chan protagonist when you enter the workforce and that's awesome, but sadly that was not an option.
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Nov 23, 2018 00:27
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sudonim posted:I didn't play P4 but your breakdown here makes it seem there's an unintentional theme of "come to terms with the hand you were dealt." I always felt it was implied that Teddie and Yosuke were dating in the little time skip picture, so...
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Nov 23, 2018 00:40
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, it's definitely there while not being her Main Thing although there is kind of a touching/sad bit in Golden where if you take her on the Valentine's Day date she's all "compared to Yukiko and Rise and Naoto you picked ME." I wanted to tell her, Chie, you want to be a Jackie Chan protagonist when you enter the workforce and that's awesome, but sadly that was not an option. Name five Persona characters. And it's not Chie Satonaka!
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Nov 23, 2018 01:15
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Part 171: 12/7-12/8: Making A Scene Music: Ark   ...We should get going. He entrusted us with an important task, after all… Let’s go, Joker.  It looks like we’ve come out on the side deck. We should be able to secure a route from here.  Welp, let’s head over and get to usin; those letters then.   Open sesame! The time’s finally come. “Finally” is right. It’s been like a month of this poo poo. Yeah. Music: Suspicion  Huh!? The hell is that…!? It’s pretty rockin’…! So this… is the main assembly hall? P-Probably. Darumas are often used as symbols of election luck, plus everything else in here seems real…  Odd… There isn’t a single person in here. It sounded as though there was quite the crowd within when we heard voices through the door.  But given how it looks, this has to be the root of the distortion.  Yes. I’m picking up on the Treasure’s presence as well.We can loving see the Treasure from here. It’s right in front of us. There’s no doubt this place is where it’ll appear.  Before that, one order of business.  Music: Aria of the Soul  First up, Moloch from Daisoujou and Pazuzu.   Your soul shall burn a brilliant crimson with my hellfire. Now then… take up your mask. Moloch is a Canaanite god associated with child sacrifice. Certain traditions depicted Moloch as a large bronze statue heated with fire into which victims were thrown.  Next, Dionysus from Kushinada and Oberon.   I shall stay by your side in the form of a mask. Now, show me your power to change yourself in battle!  Dionysus is the Greek god of winemaking and wine, as well as some other poo poo like fertility, ritual madness, religious ecstasy, and theater. Music: Ark      We finally secured our route to the Treasure! All we need to do now is send the calling card. So we’ve made it… but there’s no turning back once the calling card is out. Failure is not an option. Is there anything left to do, Joker? Let’s make sure we take our time going forward. Music: Beneath the Mask    That means we’re ready to send the calling card too. When should we do it? We must consider the method by which we will send it as well. All those guys cheering for Shido better be ready. We’re gonna surprise the poo poo outta them! I can’t wait for this.   Well… It’s about Akechi-kun, is it not? That was really sad what happened to him… Honestly, I have mixed feelings… but I think he was a victim too. A victim we couldn’t save… Had I not met you all, I may have become like him as well… Personally speaking, I can’t forgive the guy. But more importantly, I can’t forgive Shido for warping his mind so goddamn much! You can count on us. The decision on when to call us together for this plan is on you, Maaku. gently caress OFF ……    Please don’t say things like that.    Music: Punch Ouch      He might be small, but don’t underestimate him. His quick movements will decimate you!  I’m here with you! Just remember what we practiced!  Don’t lose… And right as the bell rings, Joe comes out aggressive! Don’t let him shake you up! Persevere, and figure out what his weakness is!  It looks like his form loosens up after he goes on the offensive…! What are you running around for? Are you trying to-- Oh, I get it! You’re on the right track! Sway to avoid his attacks!  The challenger lands an impressive counter, and Joe falters! Good, good! Now go for the flurry! What an intense string of punches! Joe goes down! All right, the count’s starting. I hope he doesn’t get up…  You’ve got him on his heels! Keep up your footwork! Maaku dodges. Now! Give him a flurry! Maaku gives him a flurry. What a combo! Joe goes down! Please don’t get up…  Graham Joe has crumbled! Our challenger wins!  Music: Everyday Days  Maaku gains Charm +2.  Anon: We’ll finally have peace Anon: AKECHI IS BAE!!! Anon: c’mon, leak his name! Anon: kid had it coming, lol Music: Suspicion    It’s strange that no one like him has come forward until now.  He is so charismatic. Upper management could learn a thing or two from him…   He only thinks of people as stepping stones for his own personal gain. …… Father… Father, is this the type of person you fought to protect us from? ...I will fight against this injustice with my own power. I’ll be all right. I have Sis and the Phantom Thieves on my side. So… watch over me, OK? Music: Disquiet   This is so strange. I met a similarly frightening situation on the train… Everyone’s blindly following Shido. It’s as if they’ve been brainwashed.  Whaddya mean? If Shido has time to spare, he will ensure all the loose ends are tied up with Maaku’s death. They may even find out about the missing corpse… Let’s just try to keep an eye on our opponent’s moves and strike first. I’ll do the best navigation I can do for you guys. Leave it to me. poo poo’s getting real important now. Just give us a call if you make up your mind.   In this case, what kind of crime could the person who fired the gun be tried for? A: Attempted murder/B: Involuntary manslaughter/ Which of these is correct? You be the judge! The correct answer is… A! Why doesn’t wounding a passerby count as assault?  This was kind of a mean question. The answer is A, but this is two cases of attempted murder… You’ll get charged with the same crime, even if someone just happened to get wrapped up in it. I’m impressed that you got that right. I was totally tricked.Maaku gains Knowledge +1.  Sounds like bullshit, Ann.  Well, we have nothing else to do, so let’s just send that calling card, eh?  Make sure you’re fully prepared beforehand, OK?  Music: Suspicion   It would be pointless to send it to the Diet Building. And even if we handed it over to different media sources, who knows how it would be treated… The worst case scenario would be giving it to the police under the table.  What shall we do then…?   *snickering* My Futaba Cannon is ready.  It’s good to go. Look. Now, if I do this…  When did you make this!? You shoulda told us you were plannin’ something! To trick your enemies, you first gotta trick your allies. That doesn’t really make any sense here, but whatever. How stylish.  It’s kickass! This should work nicely… All right! It’s time for people to start comin’ to their senses! The Final Calling Card (This is one of the best scenes in the game) There’s a ton of ancillary dialogue in this scene but some of it is unimportant and most of it isn’t subtitled, I’ll grab what I think makes sense.    ...start with national news. Since the young man suspected to be the leader of the Phantom Thieves died while in custody, the police have officially announced that these crimes have come to an end, and assure everyone that the peace will be restored-- Wake Up, Get Up, Get Out There (Instrumental Version)  Yo! What is UP, everybody! We are the ones who you all know as the Phantom Thieves. And all of us are alive and kickin’. But those lovely guys in power? They’ve been manipulatin’ information to try and hide the truth. Ryuji, don’t cuss! You have a captive audience! Children are watching!   I dunno, and we can’t switch it out! Seems we aren’t the only ones affected either! Funny detail here: this guy is voiced by Ben Diskin, my absolute favorite voice actor and the guy I wanted to play Ryuji before they announced the cast. That’s really only important to me, but I wanted to share it with all of you.  So, before we appropriate our next target… We would like to first borrow your time! The recent scandals of public figures, the accidents caused by psychotic breakdowns and mental shutdowns—These weren’t caused by unknown reasons.  One man is behind every single instance… simply to satiate his own greed. That man was afraid his crimes would be exposed and shifted the blame on us. He even manipulated the police for that.  We only steal the hearts of criminals. But this rear end in a top hat tried to dump what he did on us.  That just shows he doesn’t care about those victims at all!  (into phone) Are they stupid!? Shut everything down! The identity of that cowardly man is-- The feed cuts out.  The hell!? It was getting good!  Oooh, the police reacted much faster than I thought. Futaba hits a key...  ...and the signal spreads. I win!  The signal returns.  The man behind it all is a current cabinet member, of all things. The Minister of State for Special Missions…  Masayoshi Shido! *loud gasps* Everything that guy says is a lie! And to prove that...  Look! As you can see, all of us are alive and kickin’!This is the pettiest, most bullshit complaint imaginable, but how are they in costume? We established at the very beginning of the game that you can’t record in a Palace. Did they have their costumes custom-made for this video? That seems like it’d draw attention!  I’m sure the people investigating us can tell if this is a lie or not.  Shido himself will soon confess all the crimes that he’s committed. Please look forward to it, everyone!  You think it’s some kinda prank? Uhhh… no way… could this be real!? We’re not gonna sit back and watch some crook wreck this country just ‘cause of his goddamn ego.   Ain’t that right… Leader?   Hey, you can see his face! Yes. Before that happens, we will take this country!  *cheering*     I’ll crush them beneath my heel!  Makoto, Haru, and Morgana do not get lines in that scene, because gently caress ‘em I guess. Arist fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Nov 23, 2018 21:45
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Morgana would just sound like a cat to the audience. So, minor bit of "Culture explanation" about the Daruma doll thingy: In Japan, Daruma dolls are used for when you make a promise or have a goal. You paint in one eye of the doll when you declare what you're going to do, and then you paint the other when you finish your goal or plan. In the whole Palace, the minor treasure have been from one-eyed Daruma dolls-all of Shido's unfulfilled promises of good for the country
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Nov 23, 2018 22:04
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Arist posted:Makoto, Haru, and Morgana do not get lines in that scene, because gently caress ‘em I guess. Wasn't the death of Haru's awful dad just a couple months ago? Her voice could be too recognizable to reporters and such. As for Makoto, 
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Nov 23, 2018 22:17
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It's because they weren't animated to talk during the parts of the scene where everyone was off camera, clearly
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Nov 23, 2018 22:20
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AweStriker posted:Wasn't the death of Haru's awful dad just a couple months ago? Her voice could be too recognizable to reporters and such. Someone at the police might recognize the voice of one the prosecutors' sister?
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Nov 23, 2018 22:22
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It did feel weird that you didn't cut off the last update after the text conversation everyone just had does add a little bit to how the game handled Akehci.
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Nov 23, 2018 22:33
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This should not be your first indication that where I end an update is completely arbitrary 
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Nov 23, 2018 22:35
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Arist posted:
I think these are the two best reactions to Akechi. Guy was very much a victim, twisted by his utterly lovely lot in life which was sad, but while his circumstances make his actions understandable they do not make them forgivable. Or at least that's what I'd say if this game's writing was any better than what we got, which feels like they just dusted off the scraps on the cutting room floor in some places. They had a good idea, execution was a bit lacking.
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Nov 23, 2018 22:41
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When playing, I was thinking there was only one sensible way to deliver this calling card. And then this scene started and Futaba came through in style. Also quote:The moment where every Shujin student suddenly was gripped by existential terror. Because no way they don't recognize Ryuji and Maaku, and they've been shittalking the two behind their back all year. E: and yeah, they totally had the costumes custom-made. For a thrown gauntlet this public you need to go full throttle.
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Nov 23, 2018 22:48
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Futaba's hack after the police attempt to shut her down the first time in this scene is definitely broadcasting to likely every major media market in the whole country by hijacking the news channel feeds, but it looks like she was just sending it to Tokyo and Osaka prior to the shutdown, if I'm reading the map right? I mean, this: is definitely over by the Dotonbori Canal in Osaka (thank you Yakuza games for letting me recognize it, that Giant Crab is great), and we've got shots of the Shibuya Scramble Crossing too. Are there any more recognizable landmarks in the background shots? I don't think the place the with Ferris Wheel is meant to be the one in Odaiba, but I can't really tell.
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Nov 23, 2018 23:29
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How much yen will building a Statue of Akechi cost you, because I'm sure the game's gonna keep running along the 'poor sweet boy went down a bad path' theme regardless of your feelings on it.
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Nov 23, 2018 23:34
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A bit late, but when the Akechi boss fight was sprung on me I reloaded, got back to it, and made Joker the only party member. Makoto dropped her line about us needing to beat him as a team right after and I was pretty fuckin' choked.
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Nov 24, 2018 04:14
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Utgardaloki posted:A bit late, but when the Akechi boss fight was sprung on me I reloaded, got back to it, and made Joker the only party member. Something else for them to clean up in the rerelease. I really hope they do something to recontextualize all this in Q2.
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Nov 24, 2018 04:23
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Omobono posted:The moment where every Shujin student suddenly was gripped by existential terror.
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Nov 24, 2018 04:56
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AradoBalanga posted:Not just Shujin students, I bet a good number of the models Ann's worked with/has met during her work recognized Ann's voice and their jaws just hit the floor. It's a shame that Haru didn't speak up, because I would have loved to have seen a smash cut to the lovely guy her dad was trying to pair her up with, if only to see his own jaw drop in sheer terror. Because he would then suddenly realize that if Haru could cause her own father to flip on a dime, his rear end is equally on the hot seat. They all used voice modulation in the video though. It would be dumb of them not to. I pretty much figure it would probably be their distinctive silhouettes that would make Ryuji and Maaku able to be picked out by Shujin students. GhostStalker fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 06:18
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AradoBalanga posted:Not just Shujin students, I bet a good number of the models Ann's worked with/has met during her work recognized Ann's voice and their jaws just hit the floor. It's a shame that Haru didn't speak up, because I would have loved to have seen a smash cut to the lovely guy her dad was trying to pair her up with, if only to see his own jaw drop in sheer terror. Because he would then suddenly realize that if Haru could cause her own father to flip on a dime, his rear end is equally on the hot seat. you say that as if the guy isn't already fertilizer
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Nov 24, 2018 06:23
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Arist posted:This is the pettiest, most bullshit complaint imaginable, but how are they in costume? We established at the very beginning of the game that you can’t record in a Palace. Did they have their costumes custom-made for this video? That seems like it’d draw attention! See, I saw that and my reaction was "Did Futaba really set up a professional level photoshoot in Mementos just for thi- never mind that's definitely something she would do." GhostStalker posted:They all used voice modulation in the video though. It would be dumb of them not to. I figure it's their distinctive silhouettes that make Ryuji and Maaku able to be picked out by Shujin students. I'm pretty sure everyone that Ann has worked with has seen her backlit before. Stroth fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 06:59
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GhostStalker posted:They all used voice modulation in the video though. It would be dumb of them not to. I figure it's their distinctive silhouettes that make Ryuji and Maaku able to be picked out by Shujin students. Oxxidation posted:you say that as if the guy isn't already fertilizer
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Nov 24, 2018 07:29
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Junpei posted:So, minor bit of "Culture explanation" about the Daruma doll thingy: That's a neat detail.
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Nov 24, 2018 08:10
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Ooh, yes, here we go. As silly as this game is, I did get a little bit pumped at this juncture. Been a long time coming, but we’re coming, Shido. And we’ve got the guillotine. And you’d better run.
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Nov 24, 2018 12:09
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Omobono posted:E: and yeah, they totally had the costumes custom-made. For a thrown gauntlet this public you need to go full throttle. Stroth posted:See, I saw that and my reaction was "Did Futaba really set up a professional level photoshoot in Mementos just for thi- never mind that's definitely something she would do." Stroth posted:I'm pretty sure everyone that Ann has worked with has seen her backlit before. AradoBalanga posted:I watched the video and somehow the voice modulation flew over my head. That said, Ann still has a chance to be ID'd by her classmates because of her own distinct frame, on top of Ann's unique hairstyle giving her away to people that know her. Fair, Ann would def be readily recognizable as well.
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Nov 24, 2018 13:16
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GhostStalker posted:Maybe they got Iwai in on it? He'd probably be able to get the Phantom Thieves accurate consumes on demand on rather short notice, with his connections and armory business. "You'd better not use this for a prank!"
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Nov 24, 2018 13:52
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Snorb posted:"You'd better not use this for a prank!" Well, by Rank 10 of his Confidant, Iwai knows that Maaku and by extension, his friends and hanger ons, are the Phantom Thieves, so I figure he knows what all the stuff he buys from him is for... (Yes, I know it's a buy quote joke) GhostStalker fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 14:00
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Oh boy, one of my favorite songs from this game is coming up soon.
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Nov 24, 2018 15:27
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