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GeneX posted:So did the game forget about the whole "running an artist factory farm and kicking them out with no life skills" thing? It kinda feels like his great crime is supposed to be extreme plagiarism related to Yusuke rather than ruining multiple lives, which is a bit of a letdown from Kamoshida's sexual and physical harassment of the volleyball team (with attempted coercion of Ann into sex on the side.) Like, okay, he's a fraud, but the art factory farm seems like a much worse moral failure than hijacking Yusuke's childhood and letting his mom die. Yeah... I don't think Madarame's skills are being forgotten or downplayed, exactly, but it does feel like somebody on the team decided to make things a little personally darker for Yusuke to make this boss seem like a progression from Kamoshida and a crime worthy of brainwashing somebody. I mean, I didn't really need it: I was already invested with the "artist farm" thing, and as a good demsoc there are few things as viscerally abhorrent to me as the theft of a person's labor... but murder is a much more visceral- and thus a more cinematic-crime than plagiarism, because it's far easier to get people invested that way. It's why you see movie after movie of people taking down crime bosses, serial killers, and murderers, and not so much, say, hedge fund managers, health insurance CEOs and and bankers of too-big-to-fail banks that are run into the ground, even though the latter group destroys more lives than any two bit thug can ever hope to. That, and Yusuke is a party member now, and has to be completely shriven of his past to move forward, blah de blah, insert character development here.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:30
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Arist, if you start making puns, that's probably when people are going to start coming after your blood. Short of that, I think you're gonna be fine.
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Aug 3, 2017 21:35
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RareAcumen posted:Arist, if you start making puns, that's probably when people are going to start coming after your blood. Internet personality Arist, the punforgivable pen of puns, You have written the most far-reaching of puns in your let's play thread and earned the groaning ire of your readers. Because of this, we have decided to steal your heart and make you own up to your terrible sense of humor. From, #Millenials
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Aug 3, 2017 22:16
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Good thing Teddie hasn't appeared to make truly bearsome amount of puns, even Phantom Thieves would struggle to change his heart from sheer groaning.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:35
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resurgam40 posted:Yeah... I don't think Madarame's skills are being forgotten or downplayed, exactly, but it does feel like somebody on the team decided to make things a little personally darker for Yusuke to make this boss seem like a progression from Kamoshida and a crime worthy of brainwashing somebody. At least to me it comes off as almost insulting. We're at the climax of the arc, and right before the final confrontation there's, what, four abrupt plot twists thrown out in half a minute's dialogue? Like right before things are resolved, the bad guy suddenly shouts "I stole my greatest work from your mother! And I only took you in to get close to her! And I altered one of the greatest works of art this century to take you out of it, expecting no one to notice the obvious changes! AND I KILLED YOUR MOTHER." That's goddamn terrible writing. This whole arc seems really weak compared to Kamoshida's.
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Aug 4, 2017 00:10
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Madarame was a pretty weak villain for me personally...until that whole "I let a seizure victim die" line. As someone who has parents with epilepsy, that poo poo made me want that fucker dead instantly.
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Aug 4, 2017 03:18
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Yeah, that made him pretty unlikable quickly.
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Aug 4, 2017 04:18
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I don't know for sure if the "7 deadly sins" angle really works for the bosses. There's some like Kamoshida where they fit neatly, but then there's some like Madarame where I'm having difficulty putting them in one box and where there's some overlap.
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Aug 4, 2017 08:37
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resisting the urge to join in on the sin talk as one who has already finished the game But I will say that I liked what they did with all of the sins in the game having Vanity here should at least imply that we are getting more than the big seven
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Aug 4, 2017 10:09
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Arist posted:
This made me chuckle.
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Aug 4, 2017 10:40
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Tempest_56 posted:At least to me it comes off as almost insulting. We're at the climax of the arc, and right before the final confrontation there's, what, four abrupt plot twists thrown out in half a minute's dialogue? Like right before things are resolved, the bad guy suddenly shouts "I stole my greatest work from your mother! And I only took you in to get close to her! And I altered one of the greatest works of art this century to take you out of it, expecting no one to notice the obvious changes! AND I KILLED YOUR MOTHER." That's goddamn terrible writing. It's just an escalation of Madarame's actions. He took people and used them until they broke whereupon he casts them aside, in Yusuke case it's literal since Madarame let Yuskue's mother die because her being dead was more useful to him than her being alive. Kamoshida had the same escalation in his own arc, with crossing the line from sexual harassment to actual rape.
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Aug 4, 2017 15:23
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Deltasquid posted:I don't know for sure if the "7 deadly sins" angle really works for the bosses. There's some like Kamoshida where they fit neatly, but then there's some like Madarame where I'm having difficulty putting them in one box and where there's some overlap. Madarame definitely fits Vanity, but the addition of the extra sins kinda came out of left field so it would have been hard to guess earlier.
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Aug 4, 2017 20:01
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Can we have one video game where the seven deadly sins aren't brought up as a secret lore theory, thanks
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Aug 4, 2017 20:19
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It's not really secret when the game is making a point of calling out the exact sin each boss embodies. 
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Aug 4, 2017 20:20
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Rainuwastaken posted:Can we have one video game where the seven deadly sins aren't brought up as a secret lore theory, thanks There are plenty of those! Just take this one; it's not secret at all.
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Aug 4, 2017 20:21
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Okay, I kinda walked right into that one, ugh.
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Aug 4, 2017 20:36
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The sins theme is always hamfisted, in large part because 4 of the sins are actually just greed or envy This game is no exception, and would be better (to a pretty much immaterial amount, granted) if it was just cut entirely
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Aug 5, 2017 01:53
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I feel like the 'phantom thieves' angle is bet let down a bit by the fact that narrative/gameplay conventions mean that the cast is always going to get caught and have to resort to a beatdown. In the end you're not changing people by cleverness and stealth, but by beating the poo poo out of them.
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Aug 5, 2017 02:00
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The Lone Badger posted:I feel like the 'phantom thieves' angle is bet let down a bit by the fact that narrative/gameplay conventions mean that the cast is always going to get caught and have to resort to a beatdown. In the end you're not changing people by cleverness and stealth, but by beating the poo poo out of them. True, but the game does reward you for being stealthy and ambushing stuff. And along the same lines we do in fact "steal the treasure" just like how we stole Kamoshida's treasure. We're just terrible phantom thieves. Beating up people isn't even the worst of our not-stealthy behaviour. What about our real life behaviour in which we're all like, "it's a secret but WE'RE THE PHANTOM THIEVES" by checking out the phansite always, discussing freely about changing people's hearts where any eavesdropping random guy can hear us, and generally being loud. Like Ryuji level loud.
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Aug 5, 2017 09:51
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They're children pretending to be phantom thieves. Give them 10 more years and they'll be actual phantom thieves with the stealth skills to back it up.
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Aug 5, 2017 10:02
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They're psychonauts but really bad at it
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Aug 5, 2017 15:30
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"We break into peoples' hearts and reveal to them the sickness that resides in their souls" is less a crime than a particularly fringe form of psychotherapy
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Aug 5, 2017 15:56
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Ryuji starting every conversation with "How do you do fellow phantom thieves?" is bound to bite them in the rear end eventually.
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Aug 5, 2017 16:28
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well, we already know they got caught
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Aug 5, 2017 16:39
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kw0134 posted:"We break into peoples' hearts and reveal to them the sickness that resides in their souls" is less a crime than a particularly fringe form of psychotherapy I like this re-interpretation of the game.
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Aug 5, 2017 17:26
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GeneX posted:They're psychonauts but really bad at it So this is the true Psychonaut sequel? Will the entire team have to do the final battle as a set of brains bouncing about?
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Aug 5, 2017 17:31
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Alkydere posted:So this is the true Psychonaut sequel? Will the entire team have to do the final battle as a set of brains bouncing about? It would be much better than the actual final battle, though that's just true of most games
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Aug 5, 2017 18:03
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VanSandman posted:I like this re-interpretation of the game. It's a shame this game probably doesn't have a School Therapist confidant.
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Aug 5, 2017 19:24
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The traditional mortal sins are dependent on the context in which they were written which is why you get like 3 or 4 of them that seem to mean basically the same thing but referred to different expressions of the basic flaw. Like acedia, which became sloth, used to mean something more like depression or dejection and had to do with the point in which being a part of the clergy no longer gave you the satisfaction it had before and you wanted to quit. So the sin was hitting that point and then quitting or stopping doing the work you were supposed to do if you couldn't just leave the priesthood. Anyway obviously the cultural context has shifted so that a list of the 8 biggest spiritual threats to being a monk living out in the desert is no longer so relevant but the list stuck around and got edited down to 7 and envy got added, but honestly I'd agree it's an oversaturated motif in fiction. Japan isn't really a Christian country though, so do the 7 deadly sins really saturate fiction to the same point there, much less the original 8 deadly sins? Honest question.
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Aug 6, 2017 04:03
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PetraCore posted:Japan isn't really a Christian country though, so do the 7 deadly sins really saturate fiction to the same point there, much less the original 8 deadly sins? Honest question. I see 7 deadly sins stuff come up waaaaaaaay more in Japanese media than in (modern) western media.
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Aug 6, 2017 04:22
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Japan loves making use of catholic esoterica. And nobody loves it more than Atlus. Of course, for most of their history their perspective has been rather different than what is considered mainstream in the west.
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Aug 6, 2017 05:02
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...oh right, I forget that Persona is a SMT spinoff. 
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Aug 6, 2017 05:16
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PetraCore posted:...oh right, I forget that Persona is a SMT spinoff. They might be considering it its own thing now, given Persona 5 dropped the SMT prefix.
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Aug 6, 2017 06:22
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Count Bleck posted:They might be considering it its own thing now, given Persona 5 dropped the SMT prefix. On the other hand, they just doubled down on the demon elements and brought back negotiation. Almost feels like the new mainline of the series at this point.
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Aug 6, 2017 07:53
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Outside of the Persona series and one Disgaea game, I've never seen it played the SMT series.
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Aug 6, 2017 09:09
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Count Bleck posted:They might be considering it its own thing now, given Persona 5 dropped the SMT prefix.
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Aug 6, 2017 16:35
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bman in 2288 posted:Outside of the Persona series and one Disgaea game, I've never seen it played the SMT series. They are just injected all over with Christian motifs is the joke.
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Aug 6, 2017 17:18
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bman in 2288 posted:Outside of the Persona series and one Disgaea game, I've never seen it played the SMT series. Which Disgaea game is that?
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Aug 6, 2017 18:45
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Part 39: 5/27: War Paint Music: Blooming Villain Boss: Ichiryusai Azazel Madarame   There is a world the mediocre cannot understand!This is The Painter’s Face, and he’ll be our boss for this evening. If you don’t know what you’re doing this can be a bit of a trial but it’s honestly pretty simple.    You aren’t even worth the art you “create”…!So, for this fight, we’ll be using just the Shiisaa we fused recently, as it knows a lot of good Physical skills like Double Fangs and Rampage, as well as resist Physical itself. Eventually we’re gonna have to make a good healing Persona, but between Morgana and the Takemedic-All Vs (100 HP to every party member) we got from Takemi, today is not that day.  Each part of the face is a different target with a different HP bar. Unfortunately, they also each have different elemental affinities, as can be seen here. The mouth absorbs Physical and is vulnerable to magic, and vice versa for the eyes. The nose absorbs nothing, because it sucks.  Another annoying aspect of them each being separate is that they each get their own turn. The eyes go first, in between some of our party members, followed by the nose and mouth when the cycle completes. The Right Eye (our left) uses single-target Fire, Electricity, and Ice attacks, while the Left Eye uses Tarukaja on the mouth and Rakunda on the party. Not bringing a Persona with buffs or Ann’s Dekaja, and the fact that we haven’t even seen a Persona with Dekunda (neutralizes debuffs on the party), all compound to make this rather annoying to keep up with, especially if it targets Morgana, who’s rather squishy.  The nose uses single-target Wind attacks or will start twitching, meaning we should focus it down.   If we fail to take it down quickly (it doesn’t have a ton of health, unlike the mouth), it’ll use Dust Flurry, a multi-target Wind attack. This is really only dangerous for Ryuji, but it’s good to not have to experience it at all. You’ll probably figure out that you should take it down naturally. In fact, I had to film another take where I intentionally let it happen so I could find out what happens and get those two screenshots.  For its part, the mouth does nothing but bite. This is your body on Resist Physical.   This is your body on “being the squishy mage on the receiving end of both Rakunda and the enemy’s Tarukaja.” It’s not pretty. Remember that Dia only heals about 50-60 HP and you’ll see where the problem is and why we need those Takemedics.  It takes a bit of time to down all the parts. I generally always ended up saving the mouth for last because Rampage hits three out of the four parts and magic does less than multi-hit Physical.  Anyway, once you do manage to get them all down, the face retreats, and the true boss emerges, Madarame, or as this form is really known, Azazel. Unlike with Asmodeus, Azazel has nothing to do with any corresponding sin, instead being associated with the scapegoat rite from Leviticus, or alternately the name for a fallen angel.     The Madarame who gathers a full crowd every time he opens an exhibit! I’m not someone that worthless brats like you are allowed to defy…! You still have the nerve to say such things!? You will fully taste the wrath of those who were preyed upon by you!  On his turn, Azazel will use (heh) “Madara-Megido,” a trivially weak attack that does 10 damage to every party member. Our job is just to hit him with all we have at this stage.  After two turns, Azazel will retreat.  And, of course, the painting comes back.  It seems you need a good whipping to make you understand! The parts respawn with less than full health, which is nice, but the face has some new tricks up its sleeve.  The Right Eye can now cast The Artist’s Grace.   The afflicted party member becomes covered with paint and weak to everything.   There has to be more than just our color changing! We should be cautious! The only thing to do when it happens is just guard and pray for the best.   Unfortunately for us, the nose can now also Dust Flurry whenever it wants.   The paint wears off in two turns, thankfully.    Dammit… Those things can come back if we don’t take them down at once!?But just in case there wasn’t enough bad news, the first time we knock down one of the parts, one of the others will immediately use Restore to bring it back up. From now on, we have to make sure we don’t leave a lot of time in between destroying each part or they’ll bring each other back, albeit with a paltry amount of health.  Stop it, you brats, or else…!Now, it’s actually very easily possible to take Azazel down in two cycles, but there’s a bit more fight to show off if we hold back.    ……! Isn’t that the same thing Madarame’s been using? Let’s try covering him with paint! Time to bestow the humiliation of being painted over to him…!  There’s really only one choice here.  Two turns of holding off the face later...    Wh-What the…!? My powers… They’re suddenly draining...   We make short work of the painting after that.  Even if you cry for help someday… you’ll regret this… No adult will help you... I hope you’re prepared to go down, Madarame! From there, it’s a simple matter to finish him off.  Ryuji learns Rampage (1-3 Light Physical strikes to all enemies), which would have been amazing to have during that fight.  Meanwhile, Yusuke learns Vicious Strike (Medium Physical to all enemies). Arist fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Apr 29, 2018 |
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Aug 6, 2017 18:54
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After the relative importance of sending out a party member to do something during the boss fight with Kamoshida, this one comes as something of a shock as to how pointless it is. A lot of people finished this fight without even getting to the "paint the boss" step, let alone actually doing it, so it's somewhat interesting to see the step with Arist showing if off here. I also don't think I've seen Dust Flurry before, as the nose normally just dies horribly to multi-target attacks.
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Aug 6, 2017 19:12
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