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At this point in the LP I'm getting impatient for new people to join the party. Everybody we have now, Maaku and maybe Morgana excluded, has done something to make me groan at one point or another.
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Sep 12, 2017 20:08
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Oxxidation posted:That's a valid outlook, but it's worth noting that there probably wouldn't be a party without Ryuji. His "EFF THE MAN" attitude was the driving force behind the Phantom Thieves' initial determination, since the protagonist is the usual mostly-mute blank slate. Yeah, didn't someone point out that it was Ryuji's rant early in the game that gave the app the keywords to Kamoshida's castle? I do get his role in the party, it's just that plot contrivance is making him look real bad to me, and it sounds like it's going to be like that for a while. *sigh* Solitair posted:At this point in the LP I'm getting impatient for new people to join the party. Everybody we have now, Maaku and maybe Morgana excluded, has done something to make me groan at one point or another. I'm hoping the game will remember Shiho exists and she'll be one of our future party members. Or if they want to tie in P4A, have Labrys transfer as a new student. And then she'd be as subtle at hiding she's a robot as Makoto is at tailing us. 
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Sep 12, 2017 20:50
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Lala-chan is the best character and needs to become a Phantom Thief asap. As for Ryuji, I will say that like Yosuke and Junpei before him, loving up isn't exclusive to him, and certain party members gently caress up in way worse ways than he does.
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Sep 12, 2017 21:11
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:As an aside, Arist, is there any chance you could maybe break up the OP's table of contents a bit, maybe by dungeon? Finding a specific event is hard as poo poo. I'll try to figure something out on that front shortly.
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Sep 12, 2017 21:58
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Yosuke was kind of annoying at times, but I thought he was a fine character.
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Sep 12, 2017 22:15
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Ryuji is one of my favourite characters. And for the record, he does apologise - eventually. At the end of that he says 'my bad'. He realises it was wrong. TheOneAndOnlyT posted:And let's not forget him trying to force Ann into stripping for Yusuke, even if said stripping never really happened. Yosuke treated Chie and Yukiko similarly in P4 and it was bad then too. You act like it was just Ryuji, when actually it was Joker, Ryuji and Morgana who decided to use Ann as bait. They were all on board the idea. Chie's personality is awful in the beginning and the times where the girls treat you badly is equally bad and cringeworthy. Sure Yosuke and his pervertedness sucks big time, and operation babe hunt is a pain to read, but it's not like the girls are any better. The writers probably wrote these scenes to be funny, and they are not funny but just plain offensive. Like Mystery Food X and hot springs scenes. Yosuke, Chie, Yukiko, Teddie - all of them have scenes where they suck! Yukiko sucks slightly less, but she still has scenes where she's awful. That being said, the guys and girls in P5 treat each other much better.
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Sep 12, 2017 22:29
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Yeah, as much as I like the P4 cast, there are a number of scenes where I wanted to smack everyone upside the head. The bathhouse scene where the girls attack the boys for coming in before realizing it was actually the boys' slot and continuing to bathe anyway was one such scene.
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Sep 12, 2017 22:57
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I always wrote it off as "people who are going though developmental stages sometimes act like fuckheads for no apparent reason". Between my best friend from Highschool and myself, I can think of plenty of times where either one of us (or both of us) wound up doing some pretty messed up stuff for one reason or another, and yet we were voted to be two of the nicest people in the school by the student body (I don't remember who was first and who was runner up, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter). The Persona protagonists are still growing out of being idiot children and learning how to be mature and responsible individuals, so sometimes they act carelessly or selfishly without considering what they're doing or who they're doing it to. It's a symptom of growing up.
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Sep 13, 2017 01:04
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It's just comedy writing from a wildly different culture. Unfortunately I don't think "The West" is the demographic for their jokes; it's probably teens and young adults, who snort with laughter at Hard Gay (the comedian) and Matsuko Deluxe. As opposed to, y'know, the jaded gaijin that stare with indifference and disgust. e: also I'm pretty sure the Persona 4 comedy scenes have come up like 20 times so far 
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Sep 13, 2017 04:24
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Persona 4 had so many scenes that were presumably meant to be funny but left no impact on me except a lingering distaste in hindsight. Like basically everything about Hanako.
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Sep 13, 2017 04:41
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There is the interesting element of Yosuke having dummied out voice clips (in both Japanese and English) of him going "I like you" (possibly followed by a flustered "Don't make me say stuff like that!"). It's possible that his arc was meant to involve some element of him acting out because he was repressing things, but instead they cut that and left in all of the gross jokes and "I'm gay but not really" nonsense. Either way, the end product is decidedly flawed.
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Sep 13, 2017 04:44
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Oxxidation posted:Persona 4 had so many scenes that were presumably meant to be funny but left no impact on me except a lingering distaste in hindsight. Even Kashiwagi. For all her problems she's actually a surprisingly good teacher. I mean she actually teaches more relevant stuff than Edogawa in P3. P5 probably has the least 'girls are mean to boys because they are perverts' scenes, surprisingly enough. I mean, Ann, but that slowly gets less and less and goes away by the last part of the game.
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Sep 13, 2017 05:07
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ApplesandOranges posted:Even Kashiwagi. For all her problems she's actually a surprisingly good teacher. I mean she actually teaches more relevant stuff than Edogawa in P3. And to be fair, she is a model. Boys fumble enough just talking to normal girls.
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Sep 13, 2017 05:53
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Aisu posted:There is the interesting element of Yosuke having dummied out voice clips (in both Japanese and English) of him going "I like you" (possibly followed by a flustered "Don't make me say stuff like that!"). It's possible that his arc was meant to involve some element of him acting out because he was repressing things, but instead they cut that and left in all of the gross jokes and "I'm gay but not really" nonsense. Either way, the end product is decidedly flawed. I think they had some shades of that in Persona Q, if I recall correctly.
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Sep 13, 2017 06:16
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I never knew they (potentially) cut out Yosuke as a P4 gay option. I think that would've made his character way more dynamic, validate his Kanji-bashing a little more, and alo put P4 in the running for queerest rpg of the 2000s, which I could respect. Also, as someone who grew up with a cop for a mom, Sae's jaded-rear end glib af conversation with Makoto about kidnapping and sex crimes is fairly on the nose imo.
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Sep 13, 2017 15:43
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Part 52: 6/19-6/20: Makoto, Makoto, Makoto Music: Wicked Plan  Let’s just forget that ever happened, please.  What’re you talking about? ...Nothing! Just start it up, Yusuke.  All we need now are the two other keywords: what he thinks of as his Palace, and where it is. But we don’t have any clues other than people falling victim around here… We’ll just have to try whatever keywords we can come up with.It’s really strange from a narrative standpoint that we haven’t even met this dude and we’re already trying to pick his brain to find his palace, so we’re just aimlessly guessing. Urgh, that’s gonna be impossible… How many buildings do you think there are in Shibuya? No complaining. If we can figure out what the Palace is, we may be able to guess where it is by association. Hmmm… It’s prolly somewhere he’s got complete control over… Maybe a garden? He likes money, so… what about a money bath? I’ve seen people online with things like that! No candidates found. No… Not even close. How about it, Maaku? Can you think of anything? I see... Candidate found. OK… That’s a hit! So, he thinks of somewhere in this city as his own bank! I thought it’d be something less realistic. That’s all it is, huh? Now then, what location would Kaneshiro think of as his bank? If we’re talkin’ about a place where he keeps his cash, maybe his own hideout? How about… a real bank? His cognition wouldn’t be distorted in that case. Dammit, we ain’t gettin’ anywhere... This may be difficult to explain… but doesn’t it seem we’re thinking a little too inside the box? Palaces emanate a passionate madness… It feels as though we’re missing that aspect. The hell’re you talkin’ about…? This Palace is a bank for someone who extorts money with criminal acts. It’s something more... But what other ways can we think about it…? Oh, could it mean a place you withdraw money? Hold on! Do you think it might have something to do with the victims? He’s taking money from his victims’ wallets, right? That means his bank is wherever they are! That’s terrible… but you may just be right.  Wait a second…! ...I have a hit. Huh…? Wait, what? D-Did I say something right…? The place that Kaneshiro thinks of as a bank is… “All of Shibuya.”Congrats, Ryuji, you were accidentally smart. What!? Like… the entire city? I see. That’s certainly where his victims are… It turns out he really is a terrible criminal. But wait, is it OK for us to go into the Palace right out of a crowd like this? Eh, nobody notices if a piece of trash disappears from a trash can. This ain’t any different. In that case… Let’s go.Why are we trusting Ryuji on matters of discretion? Beginning navigation. Music: Disquiet   What are those...?  Huh, walking ATMs. It’s like a really lovely episode of Black Mirror.  Walking ATMs… That must be his cognition of people. So this is what Kaneshiro considers a “bank”... I never thought it would be the entire district. Look around us… The distortion is affecting the whole of Shibuya. Huh? Whaddya mean? Ohhh, that’s right! Even when we were in the castle and the museum, the city outside looked normal. He sees everyone in Shibuya as his patron. No surprise for a mafia boss. It’s best we focus on finding Kaneshiro’s location and stealing his Treasure as soon as possible. Yeah, his hideout’s gotta be somewhere around here. Let’s go look for it. Walking down the distorted Central Street brings us to a few new leads.   Excuse me, can we-- Ah! P-Please forgive me! I-I don’t have any more, please! I’m telling you, not even one yen! Whoa, cool it. We’re not tryin’ to mug you or anything. Please, I don’t want to end up like the others…! Were you assaulted? *shriek* There’s no doubt he’s a victim, but he can’t even hold a goddamn conversation… Let’s try someone else.Further down the street...   What the hell... I don’t think we can talk to any of the ones here... That would appear to be the case, but there is nobody we can speak to, let alone a bank anywhere… Let us try checking around the station once more. We may have overlooked something important.Back towards the station...   It’s no use… It’s all over… I’ll end up just like them... Can’t you tell…? I’ve fallen… fallen so far… From a place where Kaneshiro leaves no tracks... Hm, what could that mean…? Hey, you gotta tell us a little more than-- I’m… too tired… Please… let me rest... The ATMan collapses to the ground. You like that name? I just came up with it. They should pay me to name Doctor Who villains. ...I don’t think he can speak any more. Kaneshiro leaves no tracks…? Does he mean that literally, or could it be figurative? Hey, why don’t we go over all the intel we have now? Wait a second… They’ve “fallen” from a place that Kaneshiro doesn’t leave any tracks…? Could that mean… they were actually thrown down from somewhere high up? What, y’mean like a skyscraper? Uhhh, there ain’t any of them around here, I don’t think... W-Wait…! What’s that!?Music: Desire   Up in the air… No wonder we couldn’t find it. “Kaneshiro doesn’t leave any tracks,” huh…? Figures it’d be floating. No… just a car. You’re useless! C’mon, don’t you have some kinda secret gadget or something!? Shut it! I’m not some robot cat! I mean, I’m not a cat at all! This may be the limit of what we can do today. We gotta find a way to get up there… Let’s think about it some more tomorrow, OK? All right, we should get out of here for now! Run for it!Why are we running? Beats me! Music: Beneath the Mask   It’s that woman who reeks of alcohol…  All right. I have a bit of advice for you. It’s about that Kaneshiro guy. He’s more dangerous than I thought! The police haven’t tracked him down, so I dug a little deeper… Turns out he has some real shady connections. I won’t say any more than that. Shady connections... He’s not someone a teenager like you should mess with. You should really back off, OK? Well, that’s all I wanted to say. See you! Proving our justice isn’t going to be easy… We’d better discuss this with everyone tomorrow. What a pain. I’m sure the police are tired of this guy, too.Yeah, I’m sure they hate being physically unable to get near him due to his flying sky bank. That must really suck for them. That reminds me, the home shopping program is airing today… You wanna check out the TV?  Here’s what we’ve got for you today! 20 boxes of Mental Floss! Floss with these and you’ll magically remember things you never knew! It’s true, I always think about all sorts of random things while I’m just flossing my teeth. >Order for 1980 yen Music: Days of Sisters   About those Phantom Thieves, I mean. If Dad were still alive… Sorry, I… I shouldn’t bring this up while we’re eating. It’s OK. Keep going. I just wonder if he would’ve been on their side… That’s all... Um… That’s not-- You don’t have to do a single thing, and you’re provided with food, clothes, a home…Uh, wow, OK… I’ve had no time to think on such ridiculous thoughts. Would Dad have been happy with them? I don’t care. He died upholding some lofty sense of righteousness, leaving all his responsibilities on us.This is kind of a lot. A-All I was trying to say was-- Isn’t it about time you grew up and acknowledged our situation!?  HOLY poo poo   *pant* Sorry, that was uncalled for. I’m just… really tired. ...I’ll be eating dinner out from tomorrow on. …...There’s two important parts of this: Sae decides to start avoiding Makoto, yeah, which has just got to rub it in. But also, hilariously, right after saying this: Sae goes right back to eating. Sae’s not just a complete rear end in a top hat, she doesn’t understand anything about human interaction.    Are we out of luck…? It’s no fair his Palace is up in the sky... If only we could contact the real Kaneshiro… ...Hm? Music: Disquiet   Nothing in particular. I just saw you all together here. That so? You seem to be having quite a bit of trouble. So you’re here to check up on us? You may be the student council president, but when it comes to what we do, you’re useless. Useless…? All you do is eat away at my life.Nice job, Ann! Pour some salt right in that festering wound!  Just stay on your high horse and watch. Or do you wanna eavesdrop, since you’re so good at it? …...  That is what you were just discussing, weren’t you? It seemed you just needed to find out where he is. Hey, you don’t gotta answer her honestly!   What was that? Fine. I’ll help you meet Kaneshiro.Huh?  What exactly is she planning on doing? She had a dead-serious look in her eyes... Does this mean she has an idea as to where Kaneshiro may be? I highly doubt that. I didn’t like her stern face… Hrrgh! What is up with her!?     Just stay on the phone and listen. Make sure you record the call as well. Huh? Who is it?  What? That idiot…! What’s she doin’!? I heard I could find someone named Kaneshiro if I came to Central Street. Central Street! She’s being too rash!  He’s blackmailing the students of Shujin Academy, is he not? Tell him if he doesn’t want me talking to the police about it, he’d better agree to meet with me. Oh no. Music: Tension  You better be taking me to Kaneshiro. This is going real bad.   Hey, wasn’t that-- It’s the guys that messed with us the other day! So they were connected to Kaneshiro! She still on!? Where are we going? I guess we can’t do anythin’ to her if she’s Kaneshiro-san’s customer. Hey, I asked a question here. Where are we going?You really don’t know when to shut up, do you? We gotta go after them!     Ryuji steps into the road.  DUDE Ryuji! Hurry up and get in!  You know what happens to anyone who snaps at me, don’t you?Here's a video of this dude’s voice, because holy poo poo it’s so weird and great. Music: Tension    Niijima-san! What the hell’d you do to her!? Ohh, I get it.  Also great: his facial expressions.  Holy moly…! That bag you saw the other day—the crocodile one. How much was it? About three million?Kaneshiro takes a large stack of bills out of the briefcase and offers it to the woman.  Better thank those guys. What…? I’m royally pissed right now. Can you tell? You know how spending money relieves stress? It’s you goddamn brats sniffing around like dogs and barging in here like you own the joint…! See this empty space? I’m so pissed that now there’s a three million yen gap here. It pisses me off even more if I don’t fill it up. I’m a perfectionist. So, good luck. What is that supposed to mean? Come on, you all look so tense. I think I’ll call it… “Debauchery of Minors at a Club.” So, can I send this to your school? That’s-- Oh, drat, I got booze and cigs in the shot! Maybe some drugs too? I feed on dumbshits like you. …Understand, pretty little student council president? Now listen up. Run your mouth to the police, and I’ll break all of you, starting with your families. I want to give you the usual month, but well, you have such a large group here… Three weeks. Bring three million yen by then. No less. Summer bonuses are around the corner, you know? It’ll be easy if you beg your mommies and daddies. Oh man, the guy we’re targeting for his history of blackmail is blackmailing us! Who could have possibly predicted this?  *laughing* Now get out of my sight. I’m about to have some fun. What!? To hell with that! Don’t bother with him. Makoto’s safety is more important right now. Three weeks for three million yen… Things have taken a serious turn for the worse...So, to recap: We can’t get into the Palace, we’re being blackmailed again, and talking to Kaneshiro has given us no new information. With seemingly no avenues left to explore, #Millennials might be done for! I’d say “wow, short game” but my save has like thirty hours on it at this point. See how we escape this mess—or don’t—next time! Arist fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Aug 19, 2019 |
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Sep 13, 2017 19:53
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I never got some of intense dislike some people tended to have for Yosuke in P4, when I played that game, there were indeed moments of his that made me cringe or want to skip through the dialogue since I knew what was likely coming, but they never really bothered me. The Kanji stuff was bad, but that's standard Japanese teenager trope stuff, and having watched enough anime featuring them as characters, I've kinda gotten pretty used to it. Yosuke seemed to me like the stock sidekick teenager character archetype to me, along with being a relative newcomer to the community (he only came to the town a year ago when his dad was assigned to manage that Junes branch) and a relative outsider because of what his dad represents to the town economically, and just unsure of himself because of it. The jokes and stuff can be skeevy, but it's not like that kinda poo poo is uncommon amongst Japanese teenagers from what I understand. He's acting a clown in order to try and get an in to his peer group, I guess, and he just doesn't turn it off sometimes when it really isn't necessary. Also, the pratfalling sidekick aspect of his character was increased many fold in the P4 spinoff games, if his style in Arena is anything to go by. Cultural contexts and all that are different, and those "jokes" are not written with the western audience in mind at all. Yes, that says stuff about Japanese culture, but that's not really a discussion for here, I would think. The camp gay stuff here in P5 is terrible though, but again, I don't really expect much more nuance from a Japanese game set in Japan written for a Japanese audience culturally with all that entails. Lala isn't a bad character though. As for Ryuji, I like him a lot as a character, and he is the impetus for a lot of the actions and formation of the Phantom Thieves, but the stuff that makes people complain about his character annoys me more than the similar stuff concerning Yosuke. Maybe because I haven't actually played the game myself and am experiencing it secondhand through YouTube videos, LPs like this, discussion, and other outlets, but while Ryuji may be mai boi in most scenes he's in, some others just annoy the hell out of me. Sure, he's hot blooded and doesn't really think before he acts, which makes for good story some times. But the plot stuff that he gets us into because of not thinking before he speaks is incredibly annoying to watch. Blurting out Phantom Thief stuff in public especially, getting Makoto on our case, plus a scene from just before later dungeon that just drags on because of him. I dunno, he's still a cool character, but he really does shoot his mouth off way too quickly to the detriment to the identity and security of the Phantom Thieves. Also, last update the Phantom Thieves were meeting in a karaoke room in Shibuya, right? Why can't they meet there from now on as our hideout since they already have the idea? Sure, you have to put up with some terrible singing muffled through the walls like Ann complained about, and it might be expensive if you go there often enough, but it's private and the staff don't even really come in as shown by them calling the room to tell us that our time is up. Makes more sense than meeting in public in a passageway in a building lousy with crowds between two major subway transfers or whatever. Stops people from overhearing us when Ryuji inevitably shoot his mouth off again and yells about being the Phantom Thieves. GhostStalker fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Sep 13, 2017 |
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Sep 13, 2017 20:10
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Well, this explains the context about one of the possible bad ends I heard of at least... Anyway, whilst I sympathise with the desire to not be useless, wow did Makoto go full retard here. I know that's insulting, but how else do you describe what she just did? She seemed to somehow think she could just go and piss off a mob boss and that somehow she could get him to stop being a mob boss or something, she must have been REALLY frustrated to go and be THAT stupid. Say what you will about Ryugi, at least he's not deciding to ask a mob boss's goons to bring him to their boss in the belief he can somehow stop them from doing crimes. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:40
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Well, while I was typing that out, an update was posted. I remember some commentary somewhere on this scene which basically amounted to "So all the dirt Kaneshiro has on us is 'pay me ¥3 million or I post these photos of Makoto and the rest of you kids standing around in a club looking confused and uncomfortable.' Top level blackmail." Enough so that the Phantom Thieves are willing to let him get away with something pretty drat unconscionable (at least to me) if they don't get around to changing his heart instead of letting those photos get out (spoiler possibly for next update for shenanigans taking place then). I get Joker showing up in a photo like that might give evidence that is a parole violation or something like that (underage in a club with alcohol and possibly drugs, consorting with criminals in the mafia, etc). But Makoto might not be tarred with the same brush that badly if those photos get out or whatever. Others replied that it's another Japanese culture disconnect with western audiences, and that as Japan is a society that places a huge amount of attention on preventing the taboo of public shame getting out, it makes more sense. Letting those photos get out would reflect badly on Makoto, destroy her honor student status and killing her future college career by making it so that she would never get a recommendation and get accepted, and likely reflect very badly on Sae as a public prosecutor, killing her career prospects as well. So she would do whatever to prevent said photos from getting out. Even having it explained like that and being raised in East Asian culture looking down on game as well, it's still a major disconnect with me regarding this blackmail. Want to know if others had the same feelings on this scene.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:45
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I'm glad the game goes into the logical endpoint of Makoto's hopeless naivete because while it is endearing and adorable, it's also incredibly dangerous. Add in the fact that the world just seems to want to constantly rain on her parade, and you can kind of see why she went for the dumbest route of trying to prove herself useful to anyone.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:45
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 The gently caress was that Sae?
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Sep 13, 2017 20:53
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Arist posted:Part 52: 6/19-6/20: Makoto, Makoto, Makoto More like: Makoto...  I think it's fair to say at this point that, while I like other characters in this story for different reasons that I will bring up later, Makoto here is probably my favorite character and the character besides the protagonist that most exemplifies the main themes of this game. Here is a character who, unlike some of our party members who were condemned for real or perceived wrongs (i.e. Ryuji), did everything right: kept on the straight and narrow, got good grades, didn't make a fuss, and even made Student Council President in one of the most prestigious schools in Tokyo (we are told). In any other drat anime or game, she'd be admired and praised, and probably have enough power to run the drat school (these stories get weird atimes) and would be already on the career path of their choice, but here, what does she get? The principal foists off duties on her not her responsibility and that she is plainly not equipped to handle, and holds her future and family reputation hostage to keep her copacetic; her guardian, whom she very plainly loves and admires, blows up at her for saying the wrong thing at supper; her council members and fellow students cast aspersions on her ability to handle things and accuse her of only doing anything to secure a college recommendation... and now the final straw: our own party, the heroes of the story, rejecting her and deriding her as useless, and in so doing committing the very thing that was committed against them, and that you would think they would feel the pain of more than anybody- relying on vicious rumors and hearsay to dictate the "truth" of a person. Now, it is understandable to a degree that this is how they'd react- Makoto did, after all, pressure them into this through blackmail- but it should be obvious to anyone watching her actions (as everyone in our party should be, considering Makoto's "ability" at stealth ) that she's doing all of this because she is genuinely concerned about the threats to her students and wants to do something about it... and is still trying to process the guilt, shame, and horror of Kamoshida's confession, and if she could have done something about it had she been more perceptive, more active, more what have you.And you have to remember, that even if we have pretty well established ourselves as the Phantom Thieves, our illustrious party is still composed of incomplete people at the beginning of their development, who, if we are going with the Tarot interpretation, are still very much in the reversed and contrary position. Ryuji (chariot) still vomits his anger out against anything that gets his dander up instead of mnnaking it work for him; Ann (Lovers) cannot recognize the feelings of a sympathetic person and disrupts harmony by heeding the same apparatus of hearsay that alienated her; Yusuke (Emperor) displays only judgmental pomposity instead of the guiding authority we should... and the closest thing we have to a coach and guide (Magician) is clever, but also an insecure, prideful wreck who would sooner eat broken glass than admit that he wasn't the hottest of hot shits. There is no reason that they would just come together here, much as we would want them to, and to see our champions of justice reject someone who wants to help them in such an unjust manner...it's uncomfortable to watch, to say the least. But it is understandable, and I am gratified that the game is making the point that just because somebody has suffered from prejudice and know intimately how it feels to be shunned- that doesn't automatically make that person more enlightened and less likely to shun others for prejudicial reasons. So this game's pretty cool for that. ...That having been said, I hope Arist does what he says and upload a video of Kaneshiro's English voice, because... um, wow.  I mean... I kinda think I know what they were going for?... But it doesn't work?... Very much at all?... You have to hear it to believe it, is what I mean.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:58
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Arist posted:
Don't sweat it Maaku. Just confuse a Mementos target and you'll have that money in no time.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:02
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If anyone's played SMT4 Apocalypse but not this and wants an idea of what Kaneshiro sounds like, he has the exact same voice as Krishna. I played this game first, so going to SMT4A got a little weird for me when I suddenly heard Kaneshiro speaking to me.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:02
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Stephen9001 posted:Well, this explains the context about one of the possible bad ends I heard of at least... Well she just got told by the phantom thieves they couldn't do anything to him witbout meeting him. So her thought process was 1. Get taken to him 2. Change of heart happens and no issues. Unfortunately she doesnt know how it actually works, and this stunt wasn't that helpful.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:29
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resurgam40 posted:I think it's fair to say at this point that, while I like other characters in this story for different reasons that I will bring up later, Makoto here is probably my favorite character and the character besides the protagonist that most exemplifies the main themes of this game. Here is a character who, unlike some of our party members who were condemned for real or perceived wrongs (i.e. Ryuji), did everything right: kept on the straight and narrow, got good grades, didn't make a fuss, and even made Student Council President in one of the most prestigious schools in Tokyo (we are told). In any other drat anime or game, she'd be admired and praised, and probably have enough power to run the drat school (these stories get weird atimes) and would be already on the career path of their choice, but here, what does she get? The principal foists off duties on her not her responsibility and that she is plainly not equipped to handle, and holds her future and family reputation hostage to keep her copacetic; her guardian, whom she very plainly loves and admires, blows up at her for saying the wrong thing at supper; her council members and fellow students cast aspersions on her ability to handle things and accuse her of only doing anything to secure a college recommendation... and now the final straw: our own party, the heroes of the story, rejecting her and deriding her as useless, and in so doing committing the very thing that was committed against them, and that you would think they would feel the pain of more than anybody- relying on vicious rumors and hearsay to dictate the "truth" of a person. Now, it is understandable to a degree that this is how they'd react- Makoto did, after all, pressure them into this through blackmail- but it should be obvious to anyone watching her actions (as everyone in our party should be, considering Makoto's "ability" at stealth  I'm always grateful for deep dives like this that help me appreciate a piece's strengths, especially now, after several updates of LP have made me painfully aware of this game's writing flaws.
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Sep 13, 2017 21:44
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GhostStalker posted:The camp gay stuff here in P5 is terrible though, but again, I don't really expect much more nuance from a Japanese game set in Japan written for a Japanese audience culturally with all that entails. This kind of regressive bullshit isn't endemic to all Japanese writing. It's just that Persona's writers, in particular, seem to be partly stuck in high school themselves when it comes to certain subject matter, and it gets more tiresome as its players get older. Hell, Persona 2 had a sort-of potential gay relationship option that was treated subtly and respectably by all parties involved. There's really no excuse to go from that to Fabulous Child-Catchers.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:20
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Yeah I am not gonna blame Makoto for this you can only push a person so much before something dramatic happens besides, a breakthrough is a breakthrough! (On and yes, what the gently caress Sae)
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Sep 13, 2017 22:35
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Yosuke is bad because he's the root cause of the single most unfunny stretch in P4 and no amount of endearing writing or "what if he was gay" will make up for that, and that's without all the other stupid poo poo that comes out of his mouth. Anyway, Makoto. I think she's one of the better characters in the game and someone on the writing team clearly favors her. Compared to everyone else's first impressions so far (Ryuji is rude but gets your situation, Ann is understandably a little hostile until she's brought up to speed, and Yusuke actively tells you all to gently caress off until he finds out the truth), I enjoy Makoto for her trying her damnedest to do the right thing, even if her methods are incredibly loving bad. She doesn't really dislike our lad and is willing to be respectful toward him, which is more than most other students are willing to do right now.
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Sep 13, 2017 23:25
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If we're going with the theme of 7 deadly sins, then this guy is definitely greed. Also, wasn't there some sort of announcement from Atlus asking people not to show the game after 7/7? I wonder if something happens during this guy's confession.
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Sep 13, 2017 23:43
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Mraagvpeine posted:Also, wasn't there some sort of announcement from Atlus asking people not to show the game after 7/7? I wonder if something happens during this guy's confession. Last I checked, they rolled that restriction back to November, near the climax of one of the final dungeons. Dunno if they've changed it again since then.
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Sep 14, 2017 00:00
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7/7's an arbitrary "hey this is about the 1/3rd mark of the game" date. The date they rolled it back to has an actual, concrete reason for why they chose it.
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Sep 14, 2017 00:14
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I really hate this part of the game. I really do. It just goes on way too loving long in my opinion. In other news, if you wind up using the trains and not have the cash on hand for fare once or twice, Morgana's a nice enough kitty cat to spot you for the fare. I only ever had this happen to me once or twice, but it's a nice way to avoid stranding the player in a place without a job or Confidant to pass time with (I can only assume P5 MC asks for fare from Morgana/his confidant if he winds up stranded without the cash home since you still go home/go to the next day without penalty)
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Sep 14, 2017 00:14
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You should take Kaneshiro's treasure on a Monday. Judging by his voice, he'd really hate that.
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Sep 14, 2017 02:31
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What the gently caress, Sae.
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Sep 14, 2017 02:48
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Yeah for many people, this is Sae's 'Yusuke blackmailing Ann' moment, the part which just sours their view of the character completely.
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Sep 14, 2017 03:24
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ApplesandOranges posted:Yeah for many people, this is Sae's 'Yusuke blackmailing Ann' moment, the part which just sours their view of the character completely. "Well, as long as we don't have the characters ever bring up all the lovely things a character's done, the audience will just forget them, right?"
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Sep 14, 2017 03:30
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double post, sorry.
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Sep 14, 2017 03:30
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Kaneshiro's Japanese voice was pretty distinctive too. He had this weird way of emphasizing words, almost like a vocal swagger. Like he was trying to make himself seem bigger and more important, regardless of how powerful he already is.
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Sep 14, 2017 04:11
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Oxxidation posted:This kind of regressive bullshit isn't endemic to all Japanese writing. It's just that Persona's writers, in particular, seem to be partly stuck in high school themselves when it comes to certain subject matter, and it gets more tiresome as its players get older. Which explains a lot about P3's romance routes when you think about it.
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Sep 14, 2017 04:54
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