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Methylethylaldehyde
Oct 23, 2004

BAKA BAKA


I'm just waiting for the APUs to have 16 or 32GB of HBM2 memory onboard and smoke the crap out of most of the discrete GPU systems out there. You can save a ton of cash by having everything on a system board the size of a postcard, and parley that into a thinner lighter product, or a product that's like 60% battery by volume.

Actually, I'd be super interested in an AMD CPU in a laptop with 16-32GB of HBM2 even without the integrated graphics.

I wonder if it would be possible to have off-socket HBM, or if the 8 shitzillion traces would cause it to fail miserably.

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NewFatMike
Jun 11, 2015



When we get Navi maybe? I can't find a quick overview on whether an interposer is the same thing as/similar to infinity fabric.

It's pretty likely that at a certain point most things are going to be served as components all on an IF/IP substrate. It would be extremely cool.

I mean, form factors would be able to go buck wild, and if you have things like AM4 being supported for 4 years, replacing CPU & GPU with a single socket replacement once every two years that would be fully sick. One day, AMD. One day.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



Infinity Fabric != Interposer. Infinity Fabric is, in effect HyperTransport 4.0, and a technology that AMD acquired when they purchased Seamicro a few years back.

Interposers are a physical interface that connects stacked components together.

eames
May 9, 2009



Ryzen Live Q&A

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/146654315

I haven't watched it yet but it around 34:00 they state that IOMMU groups will be fixed with the next update.

New Zealand can eat me
Aug 29, 2008



0612 is available for the B350M-A and X370-Pro.

They're p hard to find on ASUS website right now, the links will eventually show up under all language/system options. The B350-PLUS link appeared briefly and then stopped working? Changelog seems to be their default "Improve System Stability".

Ran strings on both, seem to still use AGESA 1.0.0.4a. No idea what else has changed. Is there a productive way to diff these?

E: So far the most performant bios is still the 0605 beta with AGESA 1.0.0.5. I'd really like to know what we've giving up by sticking to this for now, though.

EmpyreanFlux
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!


Closest idea we have to Raven Ridge performance puts it at around R7 260X performance with 704SP @ 850Mhz. Correct me if I am wrong but that makes it a solid contender to the GTX 960M assuming that's not the boost clock. That's still basically console performance and 1080p medium/high for everything nowadays that'd be reasonable to try, so sounds like a solid buy to me.

SwissArmyDruid posted:

Currently down on Asrock. I'm still loving waiting on that loving Z270M-STX board with the MXM slot they showed off in Taipei at the beginning of this year.

loving let me use this loving M2000M I've got, you jackholes!

Hey man at least ASRock will attempt to produce stuff like this. I am at least moderately surprised they didn't try any weird 754/939 stunt with AM3+/AM4 this time, guess the technical hurdle for that insanity is too high.

Menacer
Nov 25, 2000
Failed Sega Accessory Ahoy!

SwissArmyDruid posted:

Infinity Fabric != Interposer. Infinity Fabric is, in effect HyperTransport 4.0, and a technology that AMD acquired when they purchased Seamicro a few years back.
Seamicro's technology, which they branded "Freedom Fabric", has nothing to do with Infinity Fabric. The former was essentially a rack-level interconnect that allowed users to virtualize ethernet and storage at the edge of a torus network of individual systems (see e.g. slide 8 and 14).

New Zealand can eat me
Aug 29, 2008



Looks like 0613 is here for the B350-PLUS.

Same as the others, AGESA 1.0.0.4a

Drakhoran
Oct 21, 2012



Methylethylaldehyde posted:

I'm just waiting for the APUs to have 16 or 32GB of HBM2 memory onboard and smoke the crap out of most of the discrete GPU systems out there. You can save a ton of cash by having everything on a system board the size of a postcard, and parley that into a thinner lighter product, or a product that's like 60% battery by volume.

Actually, I'd be super interested in an AMD CPU in a laptop with 16-32GB of HBM2 even without the integrated graphics.

I wonder if it would be possible to have off-socket HBM, or if the 8 shitzillion traces would cause it to fail miserably.

According to Fuad Abazovic, one 4GB stack of HBM2 memory costs $80. 16GB ($320) on a laptop CPU is not going to happen until prices come down.

Munkeymon
Aug 14, 2003

Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.



Nap Ghost

Drakhoran posted:

According to Fuad Abazovic, one 4GB stack of HBM2 memory costs $80. 16GB ($320) on a laptop CPU is not going to happen until prices come down.

That's a (reasonable) ~15% of the cost at the high end, though, which is where you'd see 16 GB in a laptop.

New Zealand can eat me
Aug 29, 2008



Seeing some hold Intel releasing ThunderBolt 3 to the industry as a sign that we'll see Ryzen packages with it soon for MacBooks?

I want MOBILE THREADRIPPER, Xcode and all thatů

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.


Buglord

TB3 would be cool and good for everyone not just AMD.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



It is a move that was needed last year, when people were still excited about external GPU over Thunderbolt. Now, who knows when that will be a standard industry thing.

Methylethylaldehyde
Oct 23, 2004

BAKA BAKA


Drakhoran posted:

According to Fuad Abazovic, one 4GB stack of HBM2 memory costs $80. 16GB ($320) on a laptop CPU is not going to happen until prices come down.

As volume starts to ramp up, we'll probably see HBM2 go the way of flash memory, dropping ~30-50% year over year as speeds go up and capacity improves. Hell, I remember when 4gb of DDR2 cost $80, and HBM2 is literally 100x faster.

EoRaptor
Sep 13, 2003




SwissArmyDruid posted:

It is a move that was needed last year, when people were still excited about external GPU over Thunderbolt. Now, who knows when that will be a standard industry thing.

This is a defensive play against AMD, nothing more. They are going to drive 'feature X' as the new open standard, pushing out any competing standard. It's just 'coincidence' that 'feature X' is something they developed internally and have a huge head start on vs their competitor.

It's all about positioning for OEM's.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


EoRaptor posted:

This is a defensive play against AMD, nothing more. They are going to drive 'feature X' as the new open standard, pushing out any competing standard. It's just 'coincidence' that 'feature X' is something they developed internally and have a huge head start on vs their competitor.

It's all about positioning for OEM's.

So basically like FreeSync then?

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


EoRaptor posted:

It's all about positioning for OEM's.

Strikes me as odd that OEMs would care about thunderbolt 3 if the market doesn't have anything to use it for.

But as cover for whatever the current Intel incentives are for OEMs, it's good enough. I'm not optimistic about mobile Ryzen just because I expect the same pattern from the last 5 years to continue. The bulldozer family was awful, but some AMD mobile chips have had decent prospects. They always show up a year late and in really compromised designs for some strange reason. Same thing will happen with raven ridge, just watch.


Paul MaudDib posted:

So basically like FreeSync then?

you can't use allears on something that's actually good boyo

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



Menacer posted:

Seamicro's technology, which they branded "Freedom Fabric", has nothing to do with Infinity Fabric. The former was essentially a rack-level interconnect that allowed users to virtualize ethernet and storage at the edge of a torus network of individual systems (see e.g. slide 8 and 14).

Was going to argue, but you are in fact correct. Straight from the horse's mouth:

quote:

UPDATE 5/22/17 11:15 PM CT: AMD has asked us to clarify that Infinity Fabric is actually not related to any of the IP or work that AMD inherited through its ill-fated and SeaMicro acquisition.

http://semiaccurate.com/2017/05/17/...rver-ambitions/

However, I would still stand by the statement that it's HyperTransport 4.0.

PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

Slippery Tilde

Supposedly its a mish-mash of PCIe and their HT standard. They probably should've called it HT4.0. Its PCIe heritage is supposed to be why it scales up and down so easily but also is why its supposed to be relatively high latency too. That is all rumors at this point I believe, I don't think AMD has released many technical details about it so far.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



Samsung to target 4nm in 2020. That's when the WSA ends for good, right? http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1331785

http://wccftech.com/amd-kyzen-arago...ethean-coreamp/

Sthap, AMD. Stahp plz.

Kyzen
Aragon
Pharos
Promethean
Zenso
CoreAmp

SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at May 26, 2017 around 09:24

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Aug 22, 2004



SwissArmyDruid posted:

Samsung to target 4nm in 2020. That's when the WSA ends for good, right? http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1331785

http://wccftech.com/amd-kyzen-arago...ethean-coreamp/

Sthap, AMD. Stahp plz.

Kyzen
Aragon
Pharos
Promethean
Zenso
CoreAmp

They're too much for me and I love a good tacky 90's product name. They've looped around from crap > cool back to crap again and staying there.

eames
May 9, 2009



Oh god that list looks like their PR department is now registering random trademarks to generate "hype"

PS: dibs on Hyzenberg

Theris
Oct 9, 2007



I hope AMD realizes that any product with names like those has to come in a box featuring a poorly CGI'd warrior lady in bikini armor.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Aug 22, 2004



eames posted:

Oh god that list looks like their PR department is now registering random trademarks to generate "hype"

PS: dibs on Hyzenberg

Hindenberg Zeppelin cores.

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.


Buglord

Theris posted:

I hope AMD realizes that any product with names like those has to come in a box featuring a poorly CGI'd warrior lady in bikini armor.

Yessssss

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


eames posted:

Oh god that list looks like their PR department is now registering random trademarks to generate "hype"

PS: dibs on Hyzenberg

AMD is the one who knocks

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010



PerrineClostermann posted:

AMD is the one who knocks *on wood

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

careful now


Cybernetic Crumb

So if AMD can only build good architectures when Jim Keller is around, what's their plan for after Zen?

eames
May 9, 2009



Subjunctive posted:

So if AMD can only build good architectures when Jim Keller is around, what's their plan for after Zen?

As far as I know Zen+ was just about finalized when he left so AMD will live on for at least one more CPU generation.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Aug 22, 2004



They can probably tweak it quite well for a long time, like Intel's core.

Risky Bisquick
Jan 18, 2008

PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.


Buglord

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

They can probably tweak it quite well for a long time, like Intel's core.

So rerelease the same core for about a decade, sounds good

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Aug 22, 2004



Risky Bisquick posted:

So rerelease the same core for about a decade, sounds good

I'm not convinced an entirely new basic architecture is required all that often, unless it's fubar to start with, like BD, if they have r+d money.

We'll see, but it stagnating is a concern.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at May 26, 2017 around 23:35

VostokProgram
Feb 20, 2014



Perhaps in his place a new engineer will ryze

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Aug 22, 2004



I just hope AMD doesn't epycally ryzen too close to the sun like a Promethean.

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010



VostokProgram posted:

Perhaps in his place a new engineer will have ryzen

ftfy

PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

Slippery Tilde

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

I'm not convinced an entirely new basic architecture is required all that often

If you want big performance jumps than either a drastic redesign or new arch. is needed. The exception to that is if there were some major performance inhibiting bugs that get fixed but I don't think AMD's Zen has that issue.

Progressive tweaks of an existing design tend to get you middling to high single digit performance increases with each revision. Sometimes not even that really. Kind've like how Intel has been doing since Sandybridge. Which no one is very impressed with, at least not for Intel's prices.

AMD might be able to get away with minor progressive tweaks to Zen over the next few years if they a)keep prices noticeably lower than Intel's while b)still keeping overall performance fairly close to Intel's best and c)Intel doesn't suddenly produce a new arch. or process tweak that either gets them 20%+ more IPC or heaps (ie. 6Ghz+) more clockspeed at similar to current TDP's.

The chances of c happening are pretty slim to none I think so AMD is probably safe for at least a couple years just tweaking Zen. Especially if Zen+ really does turn out to get 10-15% more IPC with similar or better clocks at the same TDP's. At that point it'll be on par or a bit faster per clock than Kabylake.

They'll still have a process deficiency to try and make up for of course and that will hamper any chances of getting on par with Intel's clockspeeds either at stock or OC'd but competing on price will allow them to still sell heaps of chips at much higher ASP's than they've had during the Bulldozer years so its still a huge financial win and a great value buy for any buyers.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Aug 22, 2004



Yes. I think they can get by for a few years, by then ditching gloflo is a great opportunity.

Intel's ticks have been progressively more boring, perhaps as the performance difference grew. We'll see if that continues.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at May 27, 2017 around 07:57

Theris
Oct 9, 2007



PC LOAD LETTER posted:


Progressive tweaks of an existing design tend to get you middling to high single digit performance increases with each revision. Sometimes not even that really. Kind've like how Intel has been doing since Sandybridge. Which no one is very impressed with, at least not for Intel's prices.
.

Was Sandybridge a clean sheet redesign? I was under the impression that the current Cores are still an evolution of P6.

eames
May 9, 2009



That branding... Threadripper 1998

http://translate.google.com/transla...n&langpair=auto

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JnnyThndrs
May 29, 2001

HERE ARE THE FUCKING TOWELS

Theris posted:

Was Sandybridge a clean sheet redesign? I was under the impression that the current Cores are still an evolution of P6.

I thought the first-gen i3/i5/i7 were clean-sheet designs, SB was a fairly thorough update, and everything else has just been tweaks, but IANAE.

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