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lDDQD
Apr 16, 2006


Until fairly recently, characterizing large ICs (such as a CPU, for example...) has been a lengthy and expensive process - so companies preferred to just assume each CPU is going to have nothing but the slowest possible transistor, and market its top frequency accordingly. (Okay, they did do some binning, but the test had a pretty wide margin of error - so a lot of performance was still left on the table). Now they have better tools and can quickly and cheaply characterize a large IC, and then help themselves to all of the headroom they were previously forced to leave on the table due to economic concerns. This is what we're seeing now... well, for designs coming out of the usual foundries. Intel of course has always preferred to build their own tools, so it's possible they've gotten complacent on the characterization side of things. They'll probably catch up one day, though.

RIP overclocking.

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Tanreall
Apr 27, 2004

Did I mention I was gay for pirate ducks?

~SMcD

eames posted:


The PS4 launched with 8x1.6 GHz at Piledriver IPC, even a basic 8x3.0 Ghz Zen would be 3-4x the CPU performance.

The PS4 and Xbox both use Cat cores not Construction cores. If you wanted a rough approximation of IPC you'd have to look at Kabini.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/7933...athlon-5350-am1

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


Khorne posted:

I strongly disagree considering modern processors cap out at about where you want to run them. You need to over volt to the point of degradation to push an 8700k further than 5.0-5.2 which is where you want it to begin with. AMD's current processors aren't even really worth OCing even though the previous generation were.

People bitch about Buildzoid crapping on B-boards etc and hating on low end stuff, but other people point out his channel is called “Actually Hardcore Overclocking”. He’s pointed out in the past that he doesn’t run his daily machine as high as he can get it, but he does take part in competitions and LN2 projects and he buys his components with that stuff in mind. Most people don’t have those needs.

Saying 5.0-5.2 is “where you want it to begin with” suggests such numbers are common mainstream. Adoredtv’s research into SiliconLottery etc suggests that isn’t the case. He’s incredibly eager to draw conclusions that make Intel look bad, but he’s done more research on the matter than I ever will.

quote:

AM4 still has ~2 generations of CPUs left on it and it's likely they'll be power hungry.

Again this is a difference between what people say they want and what people actually do. Someone buying a CPU in 2018 for home office or gamer tasks and using it until it is no longer sufficient to do a job aren’t going to buy another CPU before 2020. As someone who is aghast at the used prices for his Z77 motherboard and 3770K, I get that there’s people with older equipment that was mid-range when new and who would rather buy the last, greatest part in their generation than change generations completely. But that happens many years down the road when these parts are EOL already.

And besides, isn’t the new process supposed to make chips less power hungry? Doesn’t power savings and efficiency go up over time? Last time I looked that was the direction technology trended.

Craptacular! fucked around with this message at May 20, 2018 around 22:04

FaustianQ
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!


It's 40% more performance for same power or 60% less power for same performance on GloFos 7nm compared to 14nm. TSMC seems to be in the same ballpark.

So probably 80W for 4Ghz 8C/16T, 140W for 5Ghz.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


Grimey Drawer

Bottom end motherboards really do have underdimensioned VRM's, though, and they really do limit performance. Things like the Asus Prime Z370-P comes with a VRM that tops out at a sustained power draw of about 120-130 watts, and just enabling all-core turbo on an i7-8700K at stock clocks can easily draw 150W or even more in stress tests, unless the chip is a top bin overclocker to begin with. I guess enabling all-core turbo is technically overclocking, but most people wouldn't see it that way. To actually run an "average" clocking 8700K with all cores at max stock turbo for an extended period of time at all, you need a board that's pretty solidly into the mid-range of the market, and if you don't have airflow over the VRM's and plan to do extensive compute work like video encoding or Blender CPU rendering or whatever, you might want even more than that if you plan on keeping the system for five years or more like many people do these days.

Buildzoid is also very clear on when he thinks a VRM is way overkill for air or even liquid cooling, by the way. You really don't need to buy top end boards for a 24/7 home overclock and I really don't think he says that either.

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


FaustianQ posted:

It's 40% more performance for same power or 60% less power for same performance on GloFos 7nm compared to 14nm. TSMC seems to be in the same ballpark.

So probably 80W for 4Ghz 8C/16T, 140W for 5Ghz.

So if your motherboard is capable of running your CPU right now, you should be able to support one that's 40% faster (theorizing they manufacture one that faster) in the later EOL years? That doesn't sound too bad.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


eames posted:

Sony's devs are working on LLVM compiler improvements for the current Zen architecture. This should be good news down the road for all gamers as it seems exceedingly likely that the PS5 will launch with some sort of Ryzen CPU/APU.
The PS4 launched with 8x1.6 GHz at Piledriver IPC, even a basic 8x3.0 Ghz Zen would be 3-4x the CPU performance.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?p...en-Improvements

Piledriver? Nope, Jaguar. A chip designed for the fashionable netbook or tablet of the day.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



5% uplift on Zen APUs with new drivers. notbad.png

https://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics...raphics-Drivers

Arzachel
May 12, 2012


HalloKitty posted:

Piledriver? Nope, Jaguar. A chip designed for the fashionable netbook or tablet of the day.

Hahaha, you'd think so but clock for clock A4-5000 is less than 5% below a FX-4300 in single thread Cinebench 11.5.

FaustianQ
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!


AMD really should have just scaled up the Cat cores TBH, I mean that's without any L3 cache and halved L2, although the cat cores have 256kb to L1 to the 192kb L1 of Piledriver.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


Arzachel posted:

Hahaha, you'd think so but clock for clock A4-5000 is less than 5% below a FX-4300 in single thread Cinebench 11.5.

It really only goes to show how much of a dog that whole Bulldozer architecture really was..

Truga
May 4, 2014


Lipstick Apathy

The most hilarious thing about bulldozer is that apparently it aged better than sandy bridge? Weren't there benchmarks recently showing that in brand new games, i7-2600k is just slightly ahead of bulldozers? I might be misremembering.

It's only about 7 years too late in getting there, but I found it funny.

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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Aug 22, 2004

Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.

Blub

I remember ordering a sandy the day bulldozer reviews launched. That was a sad day, I even had a nice sabertooth board waiting for it.

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