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Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



its fine the way it is

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TheJeffers
Jan 31, 2007



Count me as another reader who doesn't favor consolidation.

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


Itís the right move. For some reason people post about the other company sneeringly in both threads anyway. Yet if you ask, ďwhy do we allow middle school console style fanboy sniping in CPU threads that we wouldnít tolerate on any other number of topics,Ē you basically get shut down by partisans who enjoy partisan red meat.

Also itís not like either thread is immunized against disingenuous trolling so letís just have CPU Discussion General. People think itís the apocalypse, but the apocalypse is already here.

Edit: One reason Iíd be okay keeping it the way it is would be because the naming comventions for chipsets etc are so similar.

Craptacular! fucked around with this message at Aug 10, 2018 around 19:53

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



Potato Salad posted:

It's been discussed before--and if memory serves me right--with positive responses.

u focking wot m8

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

SwissArmyDruid" post="480154235 posted:

Combined thread never, we'd get into way too many loving fights.

Let them look down their noses over there, and us laughing our asses off at their continued mismanagement at the C-level over here.

I thought for a long time that the threads being merged would own, but I totally agree with this now.

Measly Twerp posted:

I mean, of course things are going to go bad posting about AMD in the Intel thread, but there's less reason to be lovely if it's just the CPU thread.

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

it would actually legitimately own just not in a productive way

we'd have x86 thunderdome and people being constantly probated like pre-D&D fishmech

SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at Aug 10, 2018 around 20:09

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

A Very Useful Person

Fun Shoe

Join the threads up. Fanboy babies already "ruin" both threads individually.

Sent from my iPad
Jun 19, 2000



finally a thread I, a Cyrix fanboy, will feel welcome in

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars




Sent from my iPad posted:

finally a thread I, a Cyrix fanboy, will feel welcome in

the gently caress

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


Thinking I should sell my 3770K, Z77 board, and 16GB DDR3 because the 120mm AIO is beginning to be Still Working But Too Old, and I donít want to invest in new cooling for it. And as was mentioned in the other thread, people still pay good money for top-of-class components for a generation.

My thought is of getting a B450 board and a used 1600 on stock cooling until 8-core Zen2 appears and then swap it for that and a big rear end 240/280 cooler.

Thoughts? I know someone will shout about VRMs but the MSI boards seem to be well made and I have my eye on the B450M Mortar, since itís the only option for a white board and an all white mATX design is kinda what Iím hyped up for.

Stanley Pain
Jun 16, 2001

Bit. Trip. RIP.


Potato Salad posted:

x86 CPUs: The Intel/AMD Thread

It's been discussed before--and if memory serves me right--with positive responses. Nobody pulled the trigger.

If there are no serious objections, at 00:00 UTC Sunday 12 August 2018 (8 PM Saturday EST), AMD will acquire Intel (or something similarly improbable and official sounding) and I'll petition a mod to close the separate CPU threads.

Only if the thread is moved to and stays in the POS.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Aug 22, 2004



Potato Salad posted:

x86 CPUs: The Intel/AMD Thread

It's been discussed before--and if memory serves me right--with positive responses. Nobody pulled the trigger.

If there are no serious objections, at 00:00 UTC Sunday 12 August 2018 (8 PM Saturday EST), AMD will acquire Intel (or something similarly improbable and official sounding) and I'll petition a mod to close the separate CPU threads.

I started writing an op months ago, it grew to a monster size. You're prolly going to want to get people in both threads to agree on a new op's content before petitioning a mod, surely?

For a long time nothing happened in x86 land and it seemed like a good idea, but as more new tech started popping up I lost interest.

Jawn or someone posting a new extra thread about CPU hardware design and production would make me happy. I would love the rear end out of a thread about that.
CPU hardware news from x86 / arm / power / all in one place could be cool AF.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at Aug 10, 2018 around 22:03

B-Mac
Apr 21, 2003
I'll never catch "the gay"!

Craptacular! posted:

Thinking I should sell my 3770K, Z77 board, and 16GB DDR3 because the 120mm AIO is beginning to be Still Working But Too Old, and I donít want to invest in new cooling for it. And as was mentioned in the other thread, people still pay good money for top-of-class components for a generation.

My thought is of getting a B450 board and a used 1600 on stock cooling until 8-core Zen2 appears and then swap it for that and a big rear end 240/280 cooler.

Thoughts? I know someone will shout about VRMs but the MSI boards seem to be well made and I have my eye on the B450M Mortar, since itís the only option for a white board and an all white mATX design is kinda what Iím hyped up for.

The b450 MSI tomahawk seems to be the best vrm out of the b450 boards.

Khorne
May 1, 2002

Goonstone Champ x2

Sent from my iPad posted:

finally a thread I, a Cyrix fanboy, will feel welcome in
Are you a big enough fanboy to know that they are kind of the company AMD made a deal with in China so the chinese market has epyc/zen clones made by a chinese company?

I tried to find the chart of the Cyrix lineage, but I failed miserably.

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

A Very Useful Person

Fun Shoe

B-Mac posted:

The b450 MSI tomahawk seems to be the best vrm out of the b450 boards.

Seems to me that looking at a Ryzen 2, that a x470 board is going to be the wiser choice

B-Mac
Apr 21, 2003
I'll never catch "the gay"!

LRADIKAL posted:

Seems to me that looking at a Ryzen 2, that a x470 board is going to be the wiser choice

From what Iíve seen the majority of x470 boards have similar vrm setups as some of the b450s until you get into the $200 range. I donít see much of a point in getting x470 unless you need SLI or a specific board feature. You still get the big new features like XFR2, PBO and StoreMI. Iíd be happy to look at info that says otherwise as there isnít a ton out there.

B-Mac fucked around with this message at Aug 10, 2018 around 23:55

Drakhoran
Oct 21, 2012



Khorne posted:

Are you a big enough fanboy to know that they are kind of the company AMD made a deal with in China so the chinese market has epyc/zen clones made by a chinese company?

I tried to find the chart of the Cyrix lineage, but I failed miserably.

Weren't they sold to VIA nearly 2 decades ago?

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!


I used a VIA EPIA 933mhz mini-ITX system for a router for a couple of years. It still works but RIP m0n0wall.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



It's a good thing you don't run it anymore.

Apparently certain VIA chips were just completely useless as far as security went:

Hacker Finds Hidden 'God Mode' on Old x86 CPUs

quote:


The command ó ".byte 0x0f, 0x3f" in Linux ó "isn't supposed to exist, doesn't have a name, and gives you root right away," Domas said, adding that he calls it "God Mode."

The backdoor completely breaks the protection-ring model of operating-system security, in which the OS kernel runs in ring 0, device drivers run in rings 1 and 2, and user applications and interfaces ("userland") run in ring 3, furthest from the kernel and with the least privileges. To put it simply, Domas' God Mode takes you from the outermost to the innermost ring in four bytes.

"We have direct ring 3 to ring 0 hardware privilege escalation," Domas said. "This has never been done."

That's because of the hidden RISC chip, which lives so far down on the bare metal that Domas half-joked that it ought to be thought of as a new, deeper ring of privilege, following the theory that hypervisors and chip-management systems can be considered ring -1 or ring -2.

"This is really ring -4," he said. "It's a secret, co-located core buried alongside the x86 chip. It has unrestricted access to the x86."

The good news is that, as far as Domas knows, this backdoor exists only on VIA C3 Nehemiah chips made in 2003 and used in embedded systems and thin clients. The bad news is that it's entirely possible that such hidden backdoors exist on many other chipsets.

"These black boxes that we're trusting are things that we have no way to look into," he said. "These backdoors probably exist elsewhere."

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!


I'm sure it's fine, I just keep all my bitcoins on there and use it to monitor my pacemaker and download torrents over public vpns.

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001



Khorne posted:

Are you a big enough fanboy to know that they are kind of the company AMD made a deal with in China so the chinese market has epyc/zen clones made by a chinese company?

I tried to find the chart of the Cyrix lineage, but I failed miserably.

Here's the one I posted previously

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001



For those curious,
The current company there is Zhaoxin Semiconductor, a fabless semiconductor company founded by the Shanghai Municipal Government, which it jointly owns with VIA.

Intel's naming scheme is lakes in the US and Canada, and Zhaoxin's naming scheme is metro/subway stations in China.

PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

Slippery Tilde

Craptacular! posted:

My thought is of getting a B450 board and a used 1600 on stock cooling until 8-core Zen2 appears and then swap it for that and a big rear end 240/280 cooler.
None of the VRM's on even the "good" B450 mobo's will do a decent job of supporting a overclocked(which is what I'm assuming you'll be doing with a big rear end cooler like that, either manually or by allowing the system to OC itself through XFR) 8C/16T Zen2.

They're fine for running stock 8C/16T or a somewhat overclocked 4-6C/8-12T Ryzen though so if you don't care about OC'ing 8C/16T you'll be set and just fine with that 1600.

If you do actually really plan on OC'ing (mild to moderately, not balls to the wall max every Mhz OC'ing) then the cheapest mobo worth a drat for that from a vendor with OK-ish BIOS support would be the ASUS Prime X470-Pro IMO. This opinion being based off Buildzoid's review which is here. Only rub is the stock VRM heatsinks are a joke so don't let the CPU volts get to 1.4v (BZ was getting over temp shutdowns, well north of 100C, at those volts) when OC'ing (going by BZ's comments keep it at 1.35-1.37v max) and you'll probably be OK for 24/7 use though the VRM will be running fairly toasty at those volts.

If you don't mind modding the stock mobo VRM HSF, or just pointing a fan at it which does seem to help though might not be enough at 1.4v vcore either, you won't care about that issue since you'll just fix it yourself and the actual VRM components and design are apparently just fine otherwise.

While its about older B350 mobos its still a worthwhile video on why all the cheaper, well more affordable, AM4 mobo's aren't all that good and are largely the same.

If you don't mind spending more than that I'd look at the ASUS ROG Strix X470-F or the GIGABYTE X470 AORUS GAMING 7.

Craptacular! posted:

I know someone will shout about VRMs but the MSI boards seem to be well made
The components are fine in of themselves and they are built OK but that is true of pretty much all the mobos from ANY decent manufacturer right now. The problem is they're flat out lying about what the design itself will do electrically speaking. Which BTW many of the others are doing as well on their AM4 $150-190 mobo's. If you're running at stock it won't matter but if you want to OC it'll matter. Exactly how much it'll matter will depend on how much you want to do OC-wise so YMMV here.

B-Mac posted:

The b450 MSI tomahawk seems to be the best vrm out of the b450 boards.
While technically true its still garbage for OC'ing 8C/16T Ryzen's period. Even for the 6C/12T Ryzen's it'll struggle quite a bit. They're just far too budget oriented. If you run stock clocks and turn of the auto OC features then yes its fine. But I don't think very many who'd want to use decent watercooling would do that.

B-Mac posted:

From what Iíve seen the majority of x470 boards have similar vrm setups as some of the b450s until you get into the $200 range..... Iíd be happy to look at info that says otherwise as there isnít a ton out there.
The ASUS Prime X470-Pro has a proper 6 phase VRM that has good components and design that sells for $153 on newegg right now. They just cheaped out too much on the HSF's for it so it needs a fan pointed at it or a better HSF if you really want to OC a 8C/16T Ryzen.

The Buildzoid review is linked up above and while the guy rambles a bit too much for my liking he also does a decent job of reviewing something and explaining why something sucks and/or is good while also being fairly blunt about what is bullshit and what isn't.

PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at Aug 11, 2018 around 08:07

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


PC LOAD LETTER posted:

None of the VRM's on even the "good" B450 mobo's will do a decent job of supporting a overclocked(which is what I'm assuming you'll be doing with a big rear end cooler like that, either manually or by allowing the system to OC itself through XFR) 8C/16T Zen2.

Well yes, Iíll probably enable XFR and not particularly care if the board limits itís potential in some way. I just want eight cores so I can play and stream simultaneously, and my picks on motherboard are based more on color for tempered glass bling than power delivery, so you can see how serious I am about extreme clocks.

Iíve discovered thereís basically loving nothing but a lot of thin air between the majority of boards, with basically no real gap between an ASRock PRO and the Asus Crosshair. And Iím not buying a Crosshair. I mean gently caress man, I donít even OC memory. Iíve watched these hours of dudes whining about cheap boardís youíve referenced, and said bollocks to that. Even in the comments for your usual Buildzoid ďwhy Iíd never use thisĒ video, you get this usual reply chain:

ďThis information was useless to people running middling OC on stock or middling cooling.Ē
ďWell DUUUUUH thatís why the channel is called Actually Hardcore and not Actually Casual Overclocking or Actually One Button Overclocking. Itís supposed to be the perspective of a guy whose needs way outstrip yours!Ē

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

A Very Useful Person

Fun Shoe

are you not running your memory in xmp mode?

fake edit: noob

real edit: (reg dates)

LRADIKAL fucked around with this message at Aug 11, 2018 around 08:47

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


Iíve never known much about memory. My motherboard considers everything up to DDR3-1600 to be stock goodness, so I bought Corsair Vengeance sticks rated for such speeds and manually set the memory to that speed. Enabling the XMP profile does the same thing as well as additionally turn on a bunch of ďhelpfulĒ out of spec voltage features on the processor (weíre talking like PLL overvoltage) that were technically warranty breaking.

So the answer is ďeffectively yes, but officially no because officially choosing XMP in 2012 motherboards was an invitation for a host of Auto OC tweaks you didnít want.Ē

I will never mess with timings and poo poo off manufacturer spec.

PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

Slippery Tilde

Craptacular! posted:

Well yes, Iíll probably enable XFR and not particularly care if the board limits itís potential in some way.
Its not just in "some way" though. You basically won't be able to much if at all. Some of them are running into issues at stock clocks and better than stock cooling with the 8C/16T chips where even the minor OC headroom that XFR2/PBO can offer there is going unused because the mobo can't cut the mustard. edit: This BTW apparently goes double for the MSI mobo's since the PBO implementation on those are apparently overvolting too much which in turn causes heat to skyrocket so the chip underclocks itself and then the VRM gets furnace like temps for no good reason since you're either getting no benefit or slightly losing some performance at that point.

You would, in effect, be throwing your money away getting a 240/280mm AIO watercooler for such a system. It won't be able to give you any benefit over a el cheapo air cooled heatpipe HSF with a 120/140mm fan on it.

Craptacular! posted:

so you can see how serious I am about extreme clocks.
I didn't get the impression you were after extreme OC's and if you notice I did mention "mild-moderate" OC's in that post for my suggestion of that mobo. If you were after extreme OC's I would've recommended one of the $200+ mobos and nothing else instead of a $153 one.

Craptacular! posted:

Even in the comments for your usual Buildzoid ďwhy Iíd never use thisĒ video, you get this usual reply chain:

ďThis information was useless to people running middling OC on stock or middling cooling.Ē
YT comments aren't much to go on you know that. Especially with BZ. The guy has been quite clear for a while now that he was actually more interested in trying to find a decent low end mobo to OC with than the high end ones since as far as he is concerned all the high end ones make it a no brainer. He doesn't actually try to OC with LN2 with everything and does lots of tests with air cooling, common AIO's, and cheap AMD APU's for a reason.

PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at Aug 11, 2018 around 08:49

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


PC LOAD LETTER posted:

Its not just in "some way" though. You basically won't be able to much if at all. Some of them are running into issues at stock clocks and better than stock cooling with the 8C/16T chips where even the minor OC headroom that XFR2/PBO can offer there is going unused because the mobo can't cut the mustard.

You would, in effect, be throwing your money away getting a 240/280mm AIO watercooler for such a system. It won't be able to give you any benefit over a el cheapo air cooled heatpipe HSF with a 120/140mm fan on it.

So if Iím going water because I want to look at RGB memory (yes, I am going that wastefully childish over using my PC as a 21st century lava lamp) then a 140mm cooler and stock is fine? What if I dropped aesthetic ideas and went to the Gaming Pro Carbon (AC)? I think that one has a 6 phase thatís better than the low end X470 boards.

Either way, Guru3Dís Tomahawk review got a 2700X stable at stable at 4.2, results may vary of course and it got unacceptably hot for my tastes, but Iím expecting next yearís chip to be able to hit this mark with greater power efficiency. That is how new processes work, right?

Craptacular! fucked around with this message at Aug 11, 2018 around 09:01

PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

Slippery Tilde

Craptacular! posted:

So if Iím going water because I want to look at RGB memory (yes, I am going that wastefully childish over using my PC as a 21st century lava lamp) then a 140mm cooler and stock is fine?
From the perspective of wanting any improvement in OC'ing at all yes a 240/280mm AIO watercooler would probably be of no benefit vs a 140mm heatpipe air cooler for such a system. From the perspective of "forget OC'ing I'm all about cosmetics" will be a different story of course.

I got the idea you cared more about cosmetics from your other comments but not that much FWIW.

Craptacular! posted:

What if I dropped aesthetic ideas and went to the Gaming Pro Carbon (AC)? I think that one has a 6 phase thatís better than the low end X470 boards.
It'd be a definite step up, its a 5+2 phase mobo, but it sells for $179 on newegg right now (more than the ASUS mobo) and unless its got some aesthetics or other feature about it you prefer there is no reason to go for it.

Craptacular! posted:

Iím expecting next yearís chip to be able to hit this mark with greater power efficiency. That is how new processes work, right?
At stock clocks yes. Once you start OC'ing and adding any volts at all temps will skyrocket quickly with any of the mid to high core count chips from Intel or AMD no what matter the process may be in the future. The days of "win win win" on cost, transistor density, and power efficiency are going away which is a big part of the reason clockspeeds have largely stagnated in general and why when OC'd any of these 8C+ chips turn into 200W+ heat monsters.

ufarn
May 30, 2009


Speaking of, any way to stop my 2700X idle temps from bouncing around between 40 and 55C? I don't mind the concept except it makes a mess of my fan curves.

The latest Crosshair BIOS update seems like it might have exacerbated things a bit, but it's particularly weird how the temps/voltage would jump up and down with the same (non-)load.

Only defaults I've changed is RAM speed from Auto to 3200. I also switched to the regular Balanced power profile since the Ryzen Balanced profile is basically deprecated now apparently.

PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

Slippery Tilde

ufarn posted:

Speaking of, any way to stop my 2700X idle temps from bouncing around between 40 and 55C?
My WAG would be to try tweaking the Power Plan in Windows and adjusting the Minimum Processing State a few percent upwards/(edit)downwards at a time and seeing if that makes a difference.

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


PC LOAD LETTER posted:

From the perspective of wanting any improvement in OC'ing at all yes a 240/280mm AIO watercooler would probably be of no benefit vs a 140mm heatpipe air cooler for such a system. From the perspective of "forget OC'ing I'm all about cosmetics" will be a different story of course.

Itís not so much a huge emphasis on cosmetics but I only tried to OC a system for the first time this year, and Iíve owned a 386 in 1995. I never felt a reason to OC anything the past twenty years, because new processors were developing so quickly that I honestly never felt anything was too slow before you werenít simply better off buying a new processor to deal with it anyway. The death of Mooreís Law has made it hard to find substantial room for improvements beyond my reason for going 8 core: simultaneous gaming/streaming.

Which means if running the next chip on a sub-$200 board, Iíd rather run an 8 core at stock than a 6 core at OC. I lean toward water to do jobs air can do because huge heat sinks block RGB memory in addition to the standard drawbacks, which is my biggest splurge toward aesthetics.

Regarding the Carbon: Iím also trying to go with an MSI board for reasons that are mental and hard to explain (owned lots of Asus boards forever, wasnít suuuper satisfied with my current Asus and would like a change; like MSi firmware, satisfied with one of their GPUs the one time I had it) and itís sort of convenient that their boards seem to be as good as middling boards get.

Craptacular! fucked around with this message at Aug 11, 2018 around 09:45

PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

Slippery Tilde

Craptacular! posted:

I never felt a reason to OC anything the past twenty years + The death of Mooreís Law has made it hard to find substantial room for improvements beyond my reason for going 8 core: simultaneous gaming/streaming. + Regarding the Carbon:
Fair enough. I think its perfectly fine to hold such views. I just didn't get that from your original comment on this subject.

Craptacular! posted:

I lean toward water to do jobs air can do because huge heat sinks block RGB memory in addition to the standard drawbacks
Have you considered a single 140mm AIO watercooler like this instead? Sounds like it'll meet your needs better while still giving you enough extra cooling headroom that XFR2/PBO might do you some good.

edit: \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Yeah they do exist but from his further posting he really wants to be able to see the RGB effect clearly to get that "lava lamp" effect so that doesn't seem to be the way he wants to go.\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at Aug 11, 2018 around 10:16

Llamadeus
Dec 20, 2005


Craptacular! posted:

Which means if running the next chip on a sub-$200 board, Iíd rather run an 8 core at stock than a 6 core at OC. I lean toward water to do jobs air can do because huge heat sinks block RGB memory in addition to the standard drawbacks, which is my biggest splurge toward aesthetics.
Well... there are a few absurdly large air coolers that don't block any RAM slots.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

OK, here's a dumb question:

Why do Threadripper boards (at least the ones that came with the first gen) have a 8+3 power phase design, while mainboards for the same generation Ryzen have 16 power phase designs? Even if they're doubled in the latter case, both type of boards appear to have 60A chokes on all phases (say X399 Taichi vs X370 Taichi).

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

Nobody Cares



Tortured By Flan

Turns out AMD is satisfied with licensing x86, no merger will occur.

B-Mac
Apr 21, 2003
I'll never catch "the gay"!

PC LOAD LETTER posted:

None of the VRM's on even the "good" B450 mobo's will do a decent job of supporting a overclocked(which is what I'm assuming you'll be doing with a big rear end cooler like that, either manually or by allowing the system to OC itself through XFR) 8C/16T Zen2.

They're fine for running stock 8C/16T or a somewhat overclocked 4-6C/8-12T Ryzen though so if you don't care about OC'ing 8C/16T you'll be set and just fine with that 1600.

If you do actually really plan on OC'ing (mild to moderately, not balls to the wall max every Mhz OC'ing) then the cheapest mobo worth a drat for that from a vendor with OK-ish BIOS support would be the ASUS Prime X470-Pro IMO. This opinion being based off Buildzoid's review which is here. Only rub is the stock VRM heatsinks are a joke so don't let the CPU volts get to 1.4v (BZ was getting over temp shutdowns, well north of 100C, at those volts) when OC'ing (going by BZ's comments keep it at 1.35-1.37v max) and you'll probably be OK for 24/7 use though the VRM will be running fairly toasty at those volts.

If you don't mind modding the stock mobo VRM HSF, or just pointing a fan at it which does seem to help though might not be enough at 1.4v vcore either, you won't care about that issue since you'll just fix it yourself and the actual VRM components and design are apparently just fine otherwise.

While its about older B350 mobos its still a worthwhile video on why all the cheaper, well more affordable, AM4 mobo's aren't all that good and are largely the same.

If you don't mind spending more than that I'd look at the ASUS ROG Strix X470-F or the GIGABYTE X470 AORUS GAMING 7.

The components are fine in of themselves and they are built OK but that is true of pretty much all the mobos from ANY decent manufacturer right now. The problem is they're flat out lying about what the design itself will do electrically speaking. Which BTW many of the others are doing as well on their AM4 $150-190 mobo's. If you're running at stock it won't matter but if you want to OC it'll matter. Exactly how much it'll matter will depend on how much you want to do OC-wise so YMMV here.

While technically true its still garbage for OC'ing 8C/16T Ryzen's period. Even for the 6C/12T Ryzen's it'll struggle quite a bit. They're just far too budget oriented. If you run stock clocks and turn of the auto OC features then yes its fine. But I don't think very many who'd want to use decent watercooling would do that.

The ASUS Prime X470-Pro has a proper 6 phase VRM that has good components and design that sells for $153 on newegg right now. They just cheaped out too much on the HSF's for it so it needs a fan pointed at it or a better HSF if you really want to OC a 8C/16T Ryzen.

The Buildzoid review is linked up above and while the guy rambles a bit too much for my liking he also does a decent job of reviewing something and explaining why something sucks and/or is good while also being fairly blunt about what is bullshit and what isn't.

Calling them garbage is being hyperbolic and that true 6 phase isn't going to get you much over the 4 phase on the tomahawk. I could see the case for getting the much better VRMs if you think the next ryzen gens are going to come with greater than 8 cores and you are planning for that but for 8 cores they are fine, even for overclocking. They do require a bit of airflow but then again so does the board you linked as well. I based this off level1techcs video and hardware unboxed. I appreciate the thoroughness that buildzoid has for these mobo and gpu reviews but not everyone is putting these chips under LN2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osvm26W4e3M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWGzmbbimPw

Heres a nice list of VRMs for most of the boards.

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/communi...te-1155146.html

B-Mac fucked around with this message at Aug 11, 2018 around 13:56

PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

Slippery Tilde

Combat Pretzel posted:

OK, here's a dumb question:
Same reason mobo makers did stuff like 20+ phase VRM's years ago for Intel chips that didn't have more than 4 cores and wouldn't benefit from it even a little bit. They're just taking advantage of people who think more phases = more better and don't understand that there are practical limits to consider.

Given their current common practice of trying to sell 4 phase boards as 8 phase or trying to count the RAM VRM as part of the CPU VRM for marketing purposes is it really that hard to believe they'd do something scummy or underhanded?

PC LOAD LETTER
May 23, 2005
WTF?!

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B-Mac posted:

Calling them garbage is being hyperbolic
For 8C/16T OC'ing they're absolutely garbage, the VRM will usually start to real hot and you can run into thermal shut down protection for a reason on some of them.

B-Mac posted:

and that true 6 phase isn't going to get you much over the 4 phase on the tomahawk.
*shrugs* You might as well argue VRM phases don't matter at all if you're gonna say that.

B-Mac posted:

but not everyone is putting these chips under LN2.
BZ wasn't putting that mobo under LN2 either. Look at the CPU clocks. Look at the CPU temps. Look at the whole video, he gives the information in there at around 9min in FWIW. The guy is widely known for his LN2 stuff but he spends lots of time with air and AIO's for practical reasons and does give information and recommendations out for boards with that type of cooling in mind.

edit: \/\/\/\/\/\/ I didn't ignore most, or any, of what you said at all there dude. I selectively quoted to keep the post length down since doing total quote posts of long length gets annoying after a while. And yeah I watched the video and the guy was basically fine with the VRM temps after making sure it had a 120mm fan blowing air around it in a case. 85C+ temps is pretty dang toasty at stock clocks for a CPU VRM in a open air bench. \/\/\/\/\/\/

PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at Aug 11, 2018 around 14:41

B-Mac
Apr 21, 2003
I'll never catch "the gay"!

PC LOAD LETTER posted:

For 8C/16T OC'ing they're absolutely garbage, the VRM will usually start to real hot and you can run into thermal shut down protection for a reason on some of them.

*shrugs* You might as well argue VRM phases don't matter at all if you're gonna say that.

BZ wasn't putting that mobo under LN2 either. Look at the CPU clocks. Look at the CPU temps. Look at the whole video, he gives the information in there at around 9min in FWIW. The guy is widely known for his LN2 stuff but he spends lots of time with air and AIO's for practical reasons and does give information and recommendations out for boards with that type of cooling in mind.

I appreciate you ignoring most of what I said there and selecting only what you wanted. I agreed with you saying that 6 true phases is better than a 4 phase, not that vrms donít matter at all. Wendell said in his video the vrms were sitting in the 70s and 80s C on the tomahawk and handled the overclocked 2700X just fine. I didnít say to get any B450 and overclock the hell out of the 2700x, I only talked about one specific B450 board. Watch the video if you havenít already.

I guess these hardware threads arenít much fun if we canít call stuff garbage or poo poo and max that hyperbole meter out.

B-Mac fucked around with this message at Aug 11, 2018 around 14:38

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


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Also, if you're running with a closed loop watercooling solution you won't get much if any airflow over the VRM's naturally. With air cooling (standard tower cooler) you typically have a lot of airflow around the CPU socket area without having to do anything special. Some boards don't have overtemp protection on the VRM's either (see: Buildzoid's video on the X470 Master SLI - no LN2 involved there, just an AIO, quite modest voltages and power consumption, and the VRM exceeded 125įC within minutes). If you're buying high end CPU's with the intent of pushing them even a little bit, you really, really should buy high end motherboards as well. Or at least top-of-midrange or whatever. Even if it works and doesn't shut down under load, high temps do age things like capacitors rather quickly and the board might die in a year or two instead of lasting basically forever.

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B-Mac
Apr 21, 2003
I'll never catch "the gay"!

PC LOAD LETTER posted:

edit: \/\/\/\/\/\/ I didn't ignore most, or any, of what you said at all there dude. I selectively quoted to keep the post length down since doing total quote posts of long length gets annoying after a while. And yeah I watched the video and the guy was basically fine with the VRM temps after making sure it had a 120mm fan blowing air around it in a case. 85C+ temps is pretty dang toasty at stock clocks for a CPU VRM in a open air bench. \/\/\/\/\/\/

That was overclocked running for 16 hours with the plexiglass cover on the test bench so it wasnít open air at that point.

B-Mac fucked around with this message at Aug 11, 2018 around 14:51

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