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Munkeymon
Aug 14, 2003

Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.





Nap Ghost

TimeWaster posted:

Thanks, now I'm up to speed. Carry on.

Last BIOS update was 'only' 10.6MB and I assume that's a full image - maybe if they drop some of the bullshit graphics in the BIOS UI they can fit it in 🤪

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Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


DOOMocrat posted:

Jarrod's Tech has their usual CPU comparison charts up for the i9 10th vs the 3950x




Now we wait and see what cache improvements do for frame times in gaming, I guess. More of the same elsewhere.

Looking at other reviews 10600K vs 3600 is a similar story. If Zen 3 really does have substantial IPC improvements this is gonna be an interesting fall because they're gonna start winning even the games. (I remain skeptical of all rumors about huge IPC gains because they usually don't pan out.)

The thing I want to see is detailed reviews of the $150 Z490 mobos. For the 9000s on Z390 the mobo cost difference was a major thing that still kept AMD way in the lead on total system price. If intel has cut the chipset cost enough that the cheap boards are still decent that's a big change. But it could also be they're cut down on layer count and high-speed ram will be hard to run or something like that.

(I wonder how much of Ryzen's "so picky about ram" rep is most people having mobos with 2 fewer layers than an intel board.)

DOOMocrat
Oct 2, 2003



My best case scenario with Zen 3 would be an under 5% difference at 1440p in max frame rate & frame times. If I understand what's actually driving this difference correctly I think we' ll need a next gen interconnect/IF and socket.

Khorne
May 1, 2002

Goonstone Champ x2

DOOMocrat posted:

Jarrod's Tech has their usual CPU comparison charts up for the i9 10th vs the 3950x

Now we wait and see what cache improvements do for frame times in gaming, I guess. More of the same elsewhere.
CSGO difference is pointless. I have a 3900x and my minimum framerate in csgo is over 300. Arguably over 360 outside of a few very specific scenarios. I'd also argue the "average" difference is misleading there too. There are certain games where Intel is a clear winner and gives notably more relevant fps. In those games you're going to get a 10%-18% benefit. In far cry you benefit even more I guess. In most games there's no functional difference at 1%-6%. Putting those together as an average misrepresents the comparison.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 16:14 on May 20, 2020

DOOMocrat
Oct 2, 2003



Oh I know it's dumb I've locked myself into hardware decisions based around 240hz TN panel response times, but I still have.

Khorne
May 1, 2002

Goonstone Champ x2

DOOMocrat posted:

Oh I know it's dumb I've locked myself into hardware decisions based around 240hz TN panel response times, but I still have.
I don't think that's dumb. I like 240Hz and plan on buying 360Hz when it comes out. The problem I have is a % number doesn't tell you actual numbers. I strongly dislike how most reviews are structured.

mdxi
Mar 13, 2006

to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING



Wedge Regret

3900X is now $390 at Microcenter (and supposedly $410 elsewhere, but it's still $439 at Newegg).

SourKraut
Nov 20, 2005

POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION

fknlo posted:

I didn't even have to order a 3xxx to get them to do this

Thanks to the other goon that did, it worked.

gently caress me, haha. Glad to help!

EmpyreanFlux
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!


The 10900K reviews are like "This roughly competes with a 3900X!" but like, 3900X not only is cheaper but it's not a power hog running at 90C to do so. It's not a bad processor per se but I feel like every review seems to have an element of "This is fine" dog in it.

The 10600K is an almost sane choice though, pricing hits it a bit though.

VorpalFish
Mar 22, 2007
reasonably awesometm

EmpyreanFlux posted:

The 10900K reviews are like "This roughly competes with a 3900X!" but like, 3900X not only is cheaper but it's not a power hog running at 90°C to do so. It's not a bad processor per se but I feel like every review seems to have an element of "This is fine" dog in it.

The 10600K is an almost sane choice though, pricing hits it a bit though.

The 10700k and the 10600k are reasonable choices if your use case is high refresh rate gaming, you pair with a very fast gpu, and you care more about absolute performance than perf/dollar and perf/watt.

Otherwise, probably not so much.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!


The 10700k is a solid chip but it's hard to pass up the 3900X at $390-410 right now unless you're doing all gaming, it has the biggest price cut of any Ryzen 3000 SKU vs original MSRP.

sincx
Jul 13, 2012

What actually transpires beneath the veil of an event horizon? Decent people shouldn't think too much about that.

I've been very happy with my $400 3900X and $120 X470 Prime Pro (with 32MB BIOS!) from Microcenter.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN


I just built a Ryzen 5 3600X system and it seems more than adequate for my gaming purposes at 1440p. Are the more powerful processors mostly just needed for 4k and concurrent streaming and the like? Multiple displays? Multitasking?

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


CaptainSarcastic posted:

I just built a Ryzen 5 3600X system and it seems more than adequate for my gaming purposes at 1440p. Are the more powerful processors mostly just needed for 4k and concurrent streaming and the like? Multiple displays? Multitasking?

Not for 4k, the CPU requirements are pretty invariant of resolution for games. If you're streaming games more cores is good for running the broadcast software and a high-quality encoder.

But in general, no, a home user doesn't need more than a 3600 for games or any other normal home user application. You need more cores if you're doing professional work of various types. 3d modeling, code compiling, video production, and other nerd jobs.

AARP LARPer
Feb 19, 2005



THE DARK SIDE OF SCIENCE BREEDS A WEAPON OF WAR


Buglord

But sir, have you considered one cpu has a bigger number than the other?

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






the more powerful your pc the more powerful your Poasts become

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/hms1193/status/...0041103360?s=19

I think I'll wait a little bit longer and get an A520 instead

Also, this seems to suggest one more line of CPUs after Ryzen 4000 that's still on AM4 and still supported by B550 etc., though I guess that might just be Zen 3-based APUs.

gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 02:22 on May 22, 2020

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/hms1193/status/...0041103360?s=19

I think I'll wait a little bit longer and get an A520 instead

Also, this seems to suggest one more line of CPUs after Ryzen 4000 that's still on AM4 and still supported by B550 etc., though I guess that might just be Zen 3-based APUs.

As bad as marketing AMD's slides often are, there is still like a 1% percent chance at best that is from an AMD slide deck.

90s Solo Cup
Feb 22, 2011

To understand the cup
He must become the cup





Anime Schoolgirl posted:

the more powerful your pc the more powerful your Poasts become

yeah but can your poast run crysis?

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

At minimum settings

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017



taqueso posted:

At minimum settings

it's ok buddy at this rate all you need is a b450 and you can upgrade your poasts for life

NewFatMike
Jun 11, 2015





And they say that war was forgotten.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

NewFatMike posted:



And they say that war was forgotten.



how juvenile are these people?

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017



tbh i appreciate you folks finding and pointing these out, theyre fascinating in that 'train wreck' sense

Khorne
May 1, 2002

Goonstone Champ x2

gradenko_2000 posted:

how juvenile are these people?
The latency on the 3300x is way lower than other zen2 cpus and it performs very well as a result in certain tasks that Intel's current lineup is usually better at.

They had an extreme meltdown when zen2 didn't suck. They changed all the algorithms on their site to make it appear worse than it is. The end result was i3s being rated higher than i5/i7/i9, including ancient 4c/4t that weren't good.

They also have said only paid advertising shills post in favor of AMD, the more core trend is a conspiracy/marketing thing, etc. It's like they time traveled from Bulldozer days when "more cores" really was an advertising thing for a garbage architecture. But it's 2020, and consoles are coming out with 8c zen2 CPUs. It's 2020 and some of the newest games will pin 6c and benefit from 8c while every "desktop" application uses chromium and maxes out a cpu core.

I like Intel's current CPU offerings more than most goons. Especially now that they are trying to fight back on price. You can still cool the latest Intel cpus on $50 air coolers. There's just no reason to downplay that AMD released their first decent, competitive, non-budget-gpu product in 10 years. I even bought a 3900x under the pretense that I'd buy a 9900k if I ran into games I couldn't hit 240fps minimums on that it could, and so far I haven't found that game and the 3900x has been great.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 13:35 on May 22, 2020

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Anyone know what's the impact of enabling Hyper-V on gaming performance? I would have thought it would be significant but the internet is surprisingly unclear on the topic.

Thinking of using WSL2, but don't want to have to toggle Hyper-V to game.

BangersInMyKnickers
Nov 3, 2004

I have a thing for courageous dongles



With modern virtualization, impact is fairly minimal because the VM containers resources are pretty much all directly mapped to the underlying hardware just with scoping. You don't run in to significant impact until there is resource contention that forces the hypervisor to juggle multiple vm loads against the same core or page/compress/dedupe/balloon memory.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


Minimal and it's likely enabled anyway with new computers for virtualization based security

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

If Godzilla can do it, you know I can deliver!

Pillbug

v1ld posted:

Anyone know what's the impact of enabling Hyper-V on gaming performance? I would have thought it would be significant but the internet is surprisingly unclear on the topic.

Thinking of using WSL2, but don't want to have to toggle Hyper-V to game.

No noticeable impact. I'm running Hyper-V to run VMs for work and I game on the same machine.

The impact will occur if you tax out your total CPU threads. I.e.: You make a HyperV VM that has 4 cores and you only have 4 cores total, then your normal tasks and VM tasks are fighting for threads.

Theris
Oct 9, 2007



gradenko_2000 posted:

Also, this seems to suggest one more line of CPUs after Ryzen 4000 that's still on AM4 and still supported by B550 etc., though I guess that might just be Zen 3-based APUs.

I don't think there's any technical reason that they couldn't pair Zen4/5/whatever with a Zen2/3 era I/O die to make it work on AM4, barring big changes to infinity fabric. Would they want to do that is another question entirely, and I kinda doubt it.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

Theris posted:

I don't think there's any technical reason that they couldn't pair Zen4/5/whatever with a Zen2/3 era I/O die to make it work on AM4, barring big changes to infinity fabric. Would they want to do that is another question entirely, and I kinda doubt it.

wasn't there already some cross-over capability from DDR2 and DDR3 in the AM3 era? I think it's only gotten better/easier than that over time

I guess the big question is whether DDR5 is going to be so expensive that it keeps people away from upgrading right away and AMD (and Intel, for that matter) feel like there's still some value to be had in selling chips to people who want to stay with their current boards

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Good to hear on the passive cost of enabling Hyper-V being low. I'm not planning to run virtualized services in parallel with games but was wondering about Windows itself running virtualized, which seems to be the case with Hyper-V enabled.

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



gradenko_2000 posted:



how juvenile are these people?

Its quite telling that they've been straight banned from multiple hardware related subreddits. When Reddit is too good for you, you have problems.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Some Goon posted:

Its quite telling that they've been straight banned from multiple hardware related subreddits. When Reddit is too good for you, you have problems.

Now I have to ask: which site is that?

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



v1ld posted:

Now I have to ask: which site is that?

Userbenchmark. You can't post it in r/hardware or r/intel at the very least, not sure about others.

Khorne
May 1, 2002

Goonstone Champ x2

Some Goon posted:

Userbenchmark. You can't post it in r/hardware or r/intel at the very least, not sure about others.
It's a shame too because they have a unique data set that makes it easy to diagnose when you have something misconfigured. It also allows you to compare a 20 year old processor or gpu to the latest in an effortless and mostly accurate way if you look at individual benchmarks.

They're doing nothing great with the dataset, nothing great with the benchmarking/diagnosis tool, and are wrecking the reputation of what could be one of the best 'user benchmark' sites around.

mdxi
Mar 13, 2006

to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING



Wedge Regret

Some Goon posted:

Userbenchmark. You can't post it in r/hardware or r/intel at the very least, not sure about others.

It took until, like, last month, but they're banned from r/amd as well.

Fanboyism (which is to say: tribalism and absence of critical thinking) ruins anything it manages to attach to. Edit: to be clear, userbenchmark are the fanboys here

mdxi fucked around with this message at 17:59 on May 22, 2020

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


v1ld posted:

Anyone know what's the impact of enabling Hyper-V on gaming performance? I would have thought it would be significant but the internet is surprisingly unclear on the topic.

Thinking of using WSL2, but don't want to have to toggle Hyper-V to game.

around 2% for each layer of virtualization, was the number I saw thrown around

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

v1ld posted:

Good to hear on the passive cost of enabling Hyper-V being low. I'm not planning to run virtualized services in parallel with games but was wondering about Windows itself running virtualized, which seems to be the case with Hyper-V enabled.
Considering that Microsoft wants virtualization options in the BIOSes enabled by default to run Virtualization Based Security, you won't get around Hyper-V eventually. If it was already enabled in your BIOS for whatever reason (say OEM default) and you did a fresh install the last year, you're already running covert Hyper-V. Check the System event log, if there's events sourced from Hyper-V-Hypervisor, typically from boot, it's active (even if not explicitly enabled as a feature in Windows).

Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 18:01 on May 22, 2020

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v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Virtualization was disabled by default in the MSI x570 Unify bios for this new machine. Will toggle it on this weekend. Virtualization Based Security sounds pretty good to have.

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