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ufarn
May 30, 2009


The new Windows Sandbox is a super neat feature for opening sketchy files and executables from other people, too. I didn't use Ryzen Master anyway, so not a big loss for me.

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OhFunny
Jun 26, 2013

EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC


mdxi posted:

It took until, like, last month, but they're banned from r/amd as well.

Fanboyism (which is to say: tribalism and absence of critical thinking) ruins anything it manages to attach to. Edit: to be clear, userbenchmark are the fanboys here

Steve from Gamers Nexus did a scathing overview of it too some time ago.

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



OhFunny posted:

Steve from Gamers Nexus did a scathing overview of it too some time ago.

Considering its his accepted name across the internet, should 'from' be capitalized as well, given that the whole thing is a proper noun?

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

If Godzilla can do it, you know I can deliver!

Pillbug

ufarn posted:

The new Windows Sandbox is a super neat feature for opening sketchy files and executables from other people, too. I didn't use Ryzen Master anyway, so not a big loss for me.

Yeah, Sandbox is awesome, and a lot of the Hyperv security features are fantastic tools (like AppLocker, etc.)

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


ufarn posted:

The new Windows Sandbox is a super neat feature for opening sketchy files and executables from other people, too. I didn't use Ryzen Master anyway, so not a big loss for me.

Jeez, yeah. I need to enable all of that.

Ryzen Master has been neat for seeing that cores go to sleep/frequency as HWiNFO64 and others report very different numbers from RM, but it's not worth sacrificing all those security features. Manual CPU overclocks haven't seemed useful for this 3600, PBO is good enough. Memory on the other hand seems worth the tuning, but RM isn't needed for it.

Speaking of, can vouch for this Patriot Viper Steel 4400Mhz memory being an incredibly good deal for OC at $120 for 16GB. Running it at 3800 CL14, 1:1 FCLK, where I simply copied buildzoid's OC values and then tightened them following his suggestions.

OhFunny
Jun 26, 2013

EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC


Some Goon posted:

Considering its his accepted name across the internet, should 'from' be capitalized as well, given that the whole thing is a proper noun?

Only at the start of a sentence. As one does with de, du, van, von

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


I ran 3DMark before enabling SVM in the bios, after enabling it, and then finally after enabling Hyper-V. Forgot to take a pic when SVM was disabled, but here're the results for with SVM enabled in BIOS and then with Hyper-V enabled in Windows.

1.3% slowdown in CPU for that tiny test in 3DMark, close to the 2% that Paul said. The graphics difference is noise - the non-SVM case was slightly lower than the SVM-enabled value. (That's an RX 5700 with the XT bios, not the XT hardware.)


v1ld fucked around with this message at 19:55 on May 22, 2020

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Some Goon posted:

Considering its his accepted name across the internet, should 'from' be capitalized as well, given that the whole thing is a proper noun?

his accepted name across the internet is Tech Jesus though



v1ld posted:

Speaking of, can vouch for this Patriot Viper Steel 4400Mhz memory being an incredibly good deal for OC at $120 for 16GB. Running it at 3800 CL14, 1:1 FCLK, where I simply copied buildzoid's OC values and then tightened them following his suggestions.


holy gently caress that's fast

the slightly slower 4133 is only $100, I wonder if that would do something approximately similar if they're still B-die

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Klyith posted:

holy gently caress that's fast

the slightly slower 4133 is only $100, I wonder if that would do something approximately similar if they're still B-die

The 4133's timings are 19-21-21-41 while the 4400 has 19-19-19-39. I don't know enough about this stuff to know how much that plays a part.


Aside: I bought 4 sticks and one was bad, blocked in POST. It was unfortunately present in all 3 combos of memory I first tried and was also the stick I tried first by itself. Which so threw me off I thought all the other sticks were bad too when they were actually clearing POST because of the temperature display slowly cycling the LCD POST display. It took a reddit post pointing that out before I went back and tested properly. An ugly couple of hours hoping I didn't have to take the huge NH-D15 off the CPU if the motherboard or CPU was the problem.

peepsalot
Apr 24, 2007

        PEEP THIS...
           BITCH!



Yeah its pretty pathetic that userbenchmark changed their testing/reporting in response to Ryzen. Is there any other good site now to compare general performance across different CPUs? Is passmark the only other one?

Also when is 4000 series coming out and will I liekly be able to get a sweet deal on a 3900x/3950x when that happens, or should I just go ahead and get a 3900x now to satisfy my core cravings?
$700+ for 3950x is a little more than I'm willing to drop currently though.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006

"Tell me of your home world, Usul"


v1ld posted:

I ran 3DMark before enabling SVM in the bios, after enabling it, and then finally after enabling Hyper-V. Forgot to take a pic when SVM was disabled, but here're the results for with SVM enabled in BIOS and then with Hyper-V enabled in Windows.

1.3% slowdown in CPU for that tiny test in 3DMark, close to the 2% that Paul said. The graphics difference is noise - the non-SVM case was slightly lower than the SVM-enabled value. (That's an RX 5700 with the XT bios, not the XT hardware.)




in principle there should not be any difference in graphics performance at all because you're passing the whole GPU through, Intel VT-d and AMD VT-i basically mean that the processor can seamlessly redirect IO without software having to be involved at all

v1ld posted:

Speaking of, can vouch for this Patriot Viper Steel 4400Mhz memory being an incredibly good deal for OC at $120 for 16GB. Running it at 3800 CL14, 1:1 FCLK, where I simply copied buildzoid's OC values and then tightened them following his suggestions.


that's a screaming deal for RAM that fast. Pisses me off to think that I paid around $200 (seriously) for a 4000C19 kit during the memory crisis... and that was a great deal at the time too, going rate was closer to $300 at the time.

I wish you could get 3800 or 4000 kits with 2x16GB at a reasonable price. Running 4 sticks hurts performance more than going to a higher-rank stick. I would not mind upgrading to 32GB, I miss my old rig where I had 4x8, but fast 32GB kits are still almost $400.

(and saying this, I just went and looked and saw this. Wonder how terrible those sticks actually are, they are basically half the price of the Corsair 4000C18 sticks. The corsair is probably b-die, the other stuff is apparently Hynix AFR, C, or D die. iirc weren't some of the other brands starting to catch up to B-die's ability to ratchet down the timings?)

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Windows Sandbox is indeed neat. But while looking into enabling VBS, I seem to have stumbled into a whole host of possible improvements, so: how worthwhile is putting in a TPM 2.0 module? My MSI board has a header for it.

Microsoft lists a bunch of stuff that can use it, in addition to enabling Hadware Security Capability.

I don't want to enable all this just to find that games run 10% slower and all overlays and injectors are now forever locked out.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Paul MaudDib posted:

I wish you could get 3800 or 4000 kits with 2x16GB at a reasonable price. Running 4 sticks hurts performance more than going to a higher-rank stick. I would not mind upgrading to 32GB, I miss my old rig where I had 4x8, but fast 32GB kits are still almost $400.

Buildzoid is running those timings with 4 x 8GB sticks, which is what pushed me to get the Patriots. I'm waiting on the RMA to get back with the replacement sticks to try with 4.

Actuarial Fables
Jul 29, 2014



Taco Defender

v1ld posted:

Windows Sandbox is indeed neat. But while looking into enabling VBS, I seem to have stumbled into a whole host of possible improvements, so: how worthwhile is putting in a TPM 2.0 module? My MSI board has a header for it.

Microsoft lists a bunch of stuff that can use it, in addition to enabling Hadware Security Capability.

I don't want to enable all this just to find that games run 10% slower and all overlays and injectors are now forever locked out.

The Ryzen processors have a firmware TPM (fTPM) that you can enable in the BIOS/UEFI. You don't need to buy a separate TPM device.

As to being worthwhile, it's nice to have it on for Bitlocker but as a consumer end user you probably won't get that much mileage out of all the security features.

Actuarial Fables fucked around with this message at 22:02 on May 22, 2020

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


v1ld posted:

Windows Sandbox is indeed neat. But while looking into enabling VBS, I seem to have stumbled into a whole host of possible improvements, so: how worthwhile is putting in a TPM 2.0 module? My MSI board has a header for it.

Microsoft lists a bunch of stuff that can use it, in addition to enabling Hadware Security Capability.

I don't want to enable all this just to find that games run 10% slower and all overlays and injectors are now forever locked out.

amd cpus have a firmware TPM. Enable it in the BIOS. Bitlocker is all that you'll really get for clients. Matters more for laptops.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Enabled the fTPM, turned on Secure Boot, enabled DEP for all programs. Pretty soon I won't be able to do anything at all, but with very fast RAM.

E: And now all of the VBS options and was mildly surprised when the system managed to reboot. 3DMark shows the exact same CPU score as before, so good stuff all around.

v1ld fucked around with this message at 00:01 on May 23, 2020

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Btw rumor is that AMD is going to announce the Zen2 Refresh parts June 16th for availability July 7th. 12, 8, and 6 core parts expected. Some are saying they will be called 3900XT, 3800XT, 3600XT, some saying 3750X, 3850X, etc. Likely looking at slight frequency bumps and maybe better core alignments in the CCX for reduced latency (like the 3300X vs 3100X). Not sure if these are OEM only or retail.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Klyith posted:

holy gently caress that's fast

the slightly slower 4133 is only $100, I wonder if that would do something approximately similar if they're still B-die

The 4400 is rated at 1.45V while the 4133 and lower are rated at 1.35V. Buildzoid's creed is "why wouldn't you run b-die at 1.5V" and I couldn't get his OC to work at lower voltages though I didn't spend much time on that part of it. E: The G.Skill 3800 CL14 memory is rated for 1.5V too.

In case it's useful, here're the notes I made from the bz video. The notes on the side are his suggested tweaks. All values with a yellow "!!" or underlined in blue were also added in once the primary values showed themselves as stable. That passes MemTest for 20 minutes or so and the DRAM calculator's built-in MEMBench for similar durations. Will run MemTest for longer once I have all 4 sticks.

v1ld fucked around with this message at 23:20 on May 22, 2020

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






galaxy brain would be 3750x and 3850x being dual chiplet parts, with 2-2 2-2 and 4-0 4-0 core configurations respectively

not sure what they could do with a 3600 "refresh" besides More Cock Speed though

OhFunny
Jun 26, 2013

EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC


Zen2 refresh seems like an odd move.

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

galaxy brain would be 3750x and 3850x being dual chiplet parts, with 2-2 2-2 and 4-0 4-0 core configurations respectively

not sure what they could do with a 3600 "refresh" besides More Cock Speed though

Scratch the X off the 3600X, BOOM, there you go.

EoRaptor
Sep 13, 2003




OhFunny posted:

Zen2 refresh seems like an odd move.

They were probably doing a mask refresh to improve yields, and squeezed this in because it makes the OEM market happy.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

If Godzilla can do it, you know I can deliver!

Pillbug

Seems like the 32GB sodimms are hard to find in high speed varieties, but honestly I've had no issues

Seamonster
Apr 30, 2007

IMMER SIEGREICH


v1ld posted:


Speaking of, can vouch for this Patriot Viper Steel 4400Mhz memory being an incredibly good deal for OC at $120 for 16GB. Running it at 3800 CL14, 1:1 FCLK, where I simply copied buildzoid's OC values and then tightened them following his suggestions.


Post your AIDA64 numbers?

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN


gradenko_2000 posted:

wasn't there already some cross-over capability from DDR2 and DDR3 in the AM3 era? I think it's only gotten better/easier than that over time

I guess the big question is whether DDR5 is going to be so expensive that it keeps people away from upgrading right away and AMD (and Intel, for that matter) feel like there's still some value to be had in selling chips to people who want to stay with their current boards

I can't speak to that, but there were definitely Intel motherboards that could take either DDR or DDR2 on the market for a while.

https://www.informit.com/articles/a...404292&seqNum=3

Edit: I've been in the FILL EVERY SLOT camp for RAM for so long I don't see myself changing. Running 4x8GB 3200 cl16 on my X570 and have been consistently blowing past the average benchmarks in CPU-Z with everything running at stock.

CaptainSarcastic fucked around with this message at 07:52 on May 23, 2020

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

A couple of parts came through this week and I put together a janky-rear end, second-hand AMD build: FX-4300, RX 560, 16 GB of DDR3 RAM, and a 240 GB SSD.

Total cost is just a hair over 200 USD.

I don't really know what I'm going to do with this, except I knew I wanted a known working AM3+ motherboard, because those seem much harder to find than the FX CPUs themselves.

If the bug bites me I might snap up an FX-8300 down the line.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


gradenko_2000 posted:

A couple of parts came through this week and I put together a janky-rear end, second-hand AMD build: FX-4300, RX 560, 16 GB of DDR3 RAM, and a 240 GB SSD.

Total cost is just a hair over 200 USD.

I don't really know what I'm going to do with this, except I knew I wanted a known working AM3+ motherboard, because those seem much harder to find than the FX CPUs themselves.

If the bug bites me I might snap up an FX-8300 down the line.

Why would anyone want to put together a Bulldozer Piledriver build, even ironically..

Still, each to their own

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 08:22 on May 23, 2020

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






I built an A8-7680 system solely because the AM1 motherboard I had previously in that PC broke down and there's no AM1 boards for sale around these parts, but there are plenty of A68 boards and Kaveri-era APUs around.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN


gradenko_2000 posted:

A couple of parts came through this week and I put together a janky-rear end, second-hand AMD build: FX-4300, RX 560, 16 GB of DDR3 RAM, and a 240 GB SSD.

Total cost is just a hair over 200 USD.

I don't really know what I'm going to do with this, except I knew I wanted a known working AM3+ motherboard, because those seem much harder to find than the FX CPUs themselves.

If the bug bites me I might snap up an FX-8300 down the line.

I just looked, and aside from some updated processor instruction sets that processor actually underperforms compared to the AM3 Phenom II 965 BE that I just retired. I never had one of the FX series processors, but it seems like going to a faster processor could be helpful.

That said, the biggest problem I was having with the Phenom was those missing instruction sets. With a mild overclock it was still holding its own at 1080p in most games, but things were getting more and more CPU bottlenecked.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


CaptainSarcastic posted:

that processor actually underperforms compared to the AM3 Phenom II 965 BE that I just retired.

Yup, that's Bulldozer alright

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

A fun thing I did discover was that the motherboard I got had integrated graphics on the board itself, so I was able to get a display even without a GPU and even while the FX doesn't have an iGPU itself.

I guess they stopped doing that after iGPUs became a lot more common.

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

I built an A8-7680 system solely because the AM1 motherboard I had previously in that PC broke down and there's no AM1 boards for sale around these parts, but there are plenty of A68 boards and Kaveri-era APUs around.

I think I mentioned this before but I also built an A8-7650K-based machine late last year just so I could practice building a computer, by hand, all by myself. I gave it away to a niece who was still using some turn-of-the-century laptop for their schoolwork.

CaptainSarcastic posted:

I just looked, and aside from some updated processor instruction sets that processor actually underperforms compared to the AM3 Phenom II 965 BE that I just retired. I never had one of the FX series processors, but it seems like going to a faster processor could be helpful.

I've got a B350 board and 16 GB of DDR4 in storage, just waiting for a better CPU. I'm on a 6c/12t Xeon right now, so I'm pretty well covered for playing anything I actually want to play. I'd be kidding myself if I said this FX project was anything other than wanting to collect hardware for its own sake.

Media Bloodbath
Mar 1, 2018

PIVOT TO ETERNAL SUFFERING


HalloKitty posted:

Why would anyone want to put together a Bulldozer Piledriver build, even ironically..

Still, each to their own

To have plausible deniability when the cops come knocking because your energy bill is skyrocketing from your grow boxes in the attic

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


B550 boards have their homepages live, full of specs, manuals, and marketing fluff. People who want to run their CPUs out of spec will have to wait for a ten hour video of Buildzoid monotonously droning on about components, but if you thought you couldn't afford a flagship board everybody's whole lineup is up.

Couple things stood out to me:
1) Looks like you might need to buy X570 if you're one of those people who care about your CPU cycles on Intel LAN. ASRock was the one brand that went for Intel adapters for mid range boards, and now everyone's whole product stack appears to be Realtek, with the Taichi and other ex-Intel boards now using their "Dragon" gaming-oriented KillerNIC competitor.

2) The one board that really stood out is the Gigabyte MASTER for having three m.2 slots on it. Many boards will disable one or even two SATA slots for the second m.2 slot, but Gigabyte is running them over PCIE lanes and gimping the PCI3 slot from x16 to x8 if you use slots two or three. So you put your GPU in one of the PCIE4 slots if you need to (if it even matters at all) and enjoy a total of nine storage devices on one board.

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Seamonster posted:

Post your AIDA64 numbers?

Saving the AIDA64 trial period for after I have all 4 sticks in since I want to do extensive burn in testing then. Here's the Membench result from within Ryzen DRAM Calculator if that helps.



The 102.6 Best time is not mine, that's some number it came with for 3800 MHz. When I ran the 3800 16-16-16 from the Memory Try It! in the BIOS, the Time was around 140 if I remember correctly. The numbers with this OC hover in the 103.1 to 103.6 range.

It used to show the memory timings on the bottom left correctly but maybe Hyper-V is preventing it from reading those now. It's defaulting to 2^n-1 values as you can see.


Craptacular! posted:

So you put your GPU in one of the PCIE4 slots if you need to (if it even matters at all)

Is there any reason why putting an RX 5700 on a PCIe 4.0 slot would prevent me from overclocking its memory? I used to be able to bump it to 1825MHz from base 1750MHz with long term stability but now its in the x570 PCIe 4.0 x16 slot, it's immediate flickering if I do any sort of increase to that mem clock.

Quoting your Tech Jesus link because I wonder if I should just drop to PCIe 3 for that card if that's even possible on this board.

v1ld fucked around with this message at 13:17 on May 23, 2020

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017



JW, why were people so stoked for that $120 4 core when from what I read a lot of game engines are wanting 6 cores now? Are those people playing older or competitive shooters or something? Or is it somehow that performant anyway and I just missed it

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985


CaptainSarcastic posted:

I just looked, and aside from some updated processor instruction sets that processor actually underperforms compared to the AM3 Phenom II 965 BE that I just retired.

I remember how much it was called AMD's netburst back then.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002






Statutory Ape posted:

JW, why were people so stoked for that $120 4 core when from what I read a lot of game engines are wanting 6 cores now? Are those people playing older or competitive shooters or something? Or is it somehow that performant anyway and I just missed it
they can finally get ryzen 3000 for less than $180 and it's not like the old kaby lake chips are getting significantly cheaper

orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

What game engines "want" 6 cores? Most games run just fine(TM) on fast 4c/8t CPUs unless you have way higher expectations than your budget allows, in which case you're not buying modern versions of a Core i7 7700k for $120.

Generic Monk
Oct 31, 2011



I just built a new PC with a 3700X in it and bought 3200mhz RAM becuase I heard somewhere that was the 'sweet spot' for performance. Enabled the XMP profile which seemed to work, but I got very occasional random restarts when the PC's sleeping that clear all the BIOS settings which is irritating. Doesn't do anything like that when I don't enable the profile.

I've heard ryzen is pretty finicky with RAM; am I missing out on that much by leaving it at stock speeds? I'm not going to gently caress about with overclocking until a couple of years down the line when I want to eke out a little more performance, but I did pay for the 3200mhz ram so if the uplift is measurable I'm willing to gently caress with it a bit until it works

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Statutory Ape posted:

JW, why were people so stoked for that $120 4 core when from what I read a lot of game engines are wanting 6 cores now? Are those people playing older or competitive shooters or something? Or is it somehow that performant anyway and I just missed it

Nah it's threads not cores. The games that have this only have problems with a 6600K or other 4-core CPUs that don't have hyperthreading. They work fine on a 4c/8t CPU, which means that some fairly old Intel quadcores outperform more recent ones because they've got hyperthreading enabled.

So for now anyways a 4c/8t CPU is a really good budget gaming chip.

Generic Monk posted:

I just built a new PC with a 3700X in it and bought 3200mhz RAM becuase I heard somewhere that was the 'sweet spot' for performance. Enabled the XMP profile which seemed to work, but I got very occasional random restarts when the PC's sleeping that clear all the BIOS settings which is irritating. Doesn't do anything like that when I don't enable the profile.

I've heard ryzen is pretty finicky with RAM; am I missing out on that much by leaving it at stock speeds? I'm not going to gently caress about with overclocking until a couple of years down the line when I want to eke out a little more performance, but I did pay for the 3200mhz ram so if the uplift is measurable I'm willing to gently caress with it a bit until it works

1. Get memtest as a faster way to test if your ram is good than waiting for random crashes. If you have unstable memory memtest will generally tell you in under 15 minutes. (Also it's a good idea to test new ram with it even if you aren't having frequent crashes, because if the ram has a defective spot memtest will find it.)

2. Yes, you do lose some noticeable performance with ram as stock (2133) speed. The good news is that an intermediate speed is really not difficult to get: first load the XMP settings, then just manually set the main DDR speed to 3000 instead of 3200. Exact procedure depends on the mobo brand.

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gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

Statutory Ape posted:

JW, why were people so stoked for that $120 4 core when from what I read a lot of game engines are wanting 6 cores now? Are those people playing older or competitive shooters or something? Or is it somehow that performant anyway and I just missed it

I think what makes the 3300X special is that it's a 4-core with hyperthreading/SMT, which makes it perform a lot better than something like an i5-6600K (four cores, no HT) for less than half the price

it's when you're also streaming something and/or have something else running in the background (or have use cases besides gaming) where you might want more than eight threads

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