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Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017



K8.0 posted:

comically authoritarian view of free software.

curious what this means tbh

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mdxi
Mar 13, 2006

to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING



Wedge Regret

I'm not a fan of Stallman, but I'm sad to read about those (wildly inappropriate and also just plain wrong-headed) remarks.

I'm not sad because of Stallman; I'm sad because it would be nice if there could be more elder statemen in computing who turned out to be genuinely nice people, instead of self-important irascible assholes who get a pass for talent (too many to count) or childlike weirdos leading lives of unexamined privilege who get a pass for talent (just Stallman?).

Everytime I come across an article where someone has dug up Eric Raymond for a quote, i cringe and close the tab as quickly as possible.

mdxi
Mar 13, 2006

to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING



Wedge Regret

Statutory Ape posted:

curious what this means tbh

If you're not doing Free Software the exact way that Richard Stallman believes Free Software should be done, then you are ideologically unclean and all your ideas and work are considered morally bankrupt/void/memory holed. He has always considered himself the head of a revolutionary vanguard, very much in the sense of Lenin's theories on class struggle, overthrow, and constant internal policing to prevent backsliding.

K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot

If you don't license your free software exactly the way I, Richard Stallman, one true authority of free software say it should be licensed, then it's JUST AS BAD as the worst licensing scheme imaginable! If you even interact with such software, you are also JUST AS BAD! Does your website have a link to twitter? Well twitter isn't free software, so you are an activist against free software! If you let your kids use non-free software, you're basically injecting them with heroin!

He's actually insane.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Stallman being a dumb insane dork is like the entire reason people know his name

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011



The more aggressively viral a piece of software's license is, the freer it is, so long as one of the terms is "code must be open source".

Free Software (tm) is a joke and Richard Stallman is a cult figurehead who wanted to be Bill Gates but didn't have the money or business sense so instead he started a cult around his insane ramblings, lived in his office, harassed women at his place of employment/residence, and eventually got dumped from everything except his cult for pulling an "actually it's epghabhrelbophelia" about child sex trafficking.

SwissArmyDruid
Feb 14, 2014



Cygni posted:

Stallman being a dumb insane dork is like the entire reason people know his name

I thought the entire reason people know his name is because he ate toe cheese in public.

SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 19:41 on May 25, 2020

mdxi
Mar 13, 2006

to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING



Wedge Regret

Kazinsal posted:

Richard Stallman is a cult figurehead who wanted to be Bill Gates but didn't have the money or business sense.

That's honestly way closer to describing someone like Ted Nelson. Stallman has a lot of flaws, but "zealous capitalism" is definitely not among them.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



Cygni posted:

Stallman being a dumb insane dork is like the entire reason people know his name

Not eating his feet?

e: drat it

ted hitler hunter
Apr 6, 2009

THE POSSESSION OF WEALTH IS IN AND OF ITSELF A SIGN OF POOR VIRTUE. AS SUCH:
1 NEVER TRUST ANY RICH PERSON.
2 NEVER HIRE ANY RICH PERSON.
BY RULE 1, IT IS APPROPRIATE TO PRESUME THAT ALL DEGREES AND CREDENTIALS HELD BY A WEALTHY PERSON ARE FRAUDULENT. THIS JUSTIFIES RULE 2--RULE 1 NEEDS NO JUSTIFIC




*waters plants* yeah, Stallman is a huge piece of poo poo for multiple reasons.

Will the Ryzen 4000 CPUs be available for purchase before Cyberpunk is released in mid September?

ted hitler hunter fucked around with this message at 22:14 on May 25, 2020

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


Statutory Ape posted:

curious what this means tbh

Stallman's decline outside of being an obstinate and annoying nerd was probably most accelerated by GPLv3, an "update" to the GPL license that prevented the practice of commercial locked-down products from using free software under license. Most consoles have some sort of "Free Software License" hidden somewhere in their OS settings page, Android was possible because of the Linux kernel, etc. But in the 00s this was viewed as some sort of nightmare when Tivo DVR was the first thing to really reach the mainstream on contributions of GPL code, so people at the time called this practice "Tivo-ization" which is a term that really aged well. There was a little bit of worry about these companies not contributing their changes upstream because their codebase is closed, but mostly a lot fear about what another poster accurately summed up as "someone using Free Software differently than Stallman wants you to." God forbid that MacOS take advantage of the CUPS printer driver without giving users total and absolute source over the entire system.

Stallman's armchair copyright attorneys (i.e. him and his fans) tried to claim that the GPLv2 license used by Linux kernel etc had language that could automatically "upgrade" every project licensed by v2 to v3 if the project leader consented to it. Torvalds disagreed, and refused to adopt v3 for a number of reasons, ranging from his own views on closed locked-down devices (distasteful but necessary when IP holders demand it) to the concern that he would have to get every single code contributor to the kernel to agree that their code contributions can change licenses, and over a decade into the project the kernel already had code written by people who had since died. Torvalds liked the prior GPL because he wanted people who made improvements or changes to make those improvements available to him so he could integrate their work into the original project. He didn't care that you can use it to make walled garden hardware, he just wants your source mods.

This still has occasional repercussions when the author of a widely used project changes licenses, btw. Samba, the software that allows these machines to exist on Windows-oriented SMB networks, went to GPLv3 a couple years ago, which means Apple had to rip it out of OSX and build their own implementation in-house.

TLDR: Dude was overly concerned that free-for-use code was improving closed products, and upset at his own success in making a better experience for users because it wasn't also turning them into zealots who demand 100% of all software be free to edit/rebuild/fork.

Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 05:45 on May 26, 2020

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

Netflix: HEY WE HAVE NEW SERIES
Me: I don't watch much series TV
Netflix: HERE'S AN AD FOR ONE SIX SECONDS AFTER THE LAST SHOW YOU JUST WATCHED
Me: No, man, quit it
Netflix: HOW ABOUT ANOTHER EDGY DOCUMENTARY
Me: Can I watch a movie from the seventies
Netflix: NO

I posted this somewhere else after the announcement that he'd resigned from MIT:

This Medium post alleges that he was skeevy as hell even thirty years ago in its second section. But I'd argue the state of Stallman's reputation outside a cult of braying weirdos trying too late to circle the wagons around him isn't bound to any single thing. It's the rider fiasco from 2011. It's Stallman eating something from the bottom of his foot during a speaking engagement. It's the entire pedophilia stance he's offered a soggy, belated apology for only when his feet were held to the fire. It's his brittle intolerance for anything that could conceivably rub him the wrong way. And it's the general impression that he's been enabled to live in a filthy little bubble for decades, heedless of the effects of his words, his appearance, or his inability to compromise in the tiniest, most superficial way on the community he's presumed to represent.

He has done some good work. That deserves to be respected, even when he doesn't.

As for AMD, I've been thrilled with Ryzen from the word go. My venerable 1700's been a great family PC and home server. And it'd be swell to have a reason to build a new Threadripper... But after a friend gave me an x299 'board and RAM I threw money at a 7940x a couple years ago. It's a blast furnace when it gets going, but I can't say I have a leg to stand on for an upgrade for the foreseeable future.

Zedsdeadbaby
Jun 14, 2008

You have been called out, in the ways of old.


I googled richard stallman and he looks exactly like how these goon posts make him sound

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017



Zedsdeadbaby posted:

I googled richard stallman and he looks exactly like how these goon posts make him sound

holy poo poo you are not kidding at all

like ive never seen this guy in my life but yet i knew exactly what he looked liek

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

Dude has a face body for radio the internet

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


Statutory Ape posted:

holy poo poo you are not kidding at all

like ive never seen this guy in my life but yet i knew exactly what he looked liek

My favourite part about his Wikipedia page is that it says he's "childfree" implying that he has no children by choice.

Krailor
Nov 2, 2001
I'm only pretending to care

Taco Defender

ted hitler hunter posted:

Will the Ryzen 4000 CPUs be available for purchase before Cyberpunk is released in mid September?

I wouldn't expect them to be. Best case scenario they might be 'released' by then but at quantities so low that unless you have a bot setup to buy one online or camp out at a Microcenter you probably won't be able to buy one.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

HalloKitty posted:

My favourite part about his Wikipedia page is that it says he's "childfree" implying that he has no children by choice.

As distressing as this may be, there is a non insignificant number of women that go for Stallman. In all likelihood hes had more action than the typical goon. It's kind of part-and-parcel for being the leader of a cult-ish movement.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.


Dramicus posted:

As distressing as this may be, there is a non insignificant number of women that go for Stallman. In all likelihood hes had more action than the typical goon. It's kind of part-and-parcel for being the leader of a cult-ish movement.

parrots are more his type

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


HalloKitty posted:

My favourite part about his Wikipedia page is that it says he's "childfree" implying that he has no children by choice.

http://www.art.net/studios/hackers/...-vs-doctor.html

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


^^ Such a wonderful read

Dramicus posted:

As distressing as this may be, there is a non insignificant number of women that go for Stallman.

I don't know why I should find it distressing, but that is indeed interesting

HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 20:41 on May 26, 2020

Discussion Quorum
Dec 5, 2002
Armchair Philistine


HalloKitty posted:

My favourite part about his Wikipedia page is that it says he's "childfree" implying that he has no children by choice.

Thanks to his Wikipedia profile, I now know what filk music is. It tracks.

Also the man avoids tracking by having a bot email web pages to him

Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017



ugh i wish i wasnt brought up in a manner that made me aware of filk music when i was like 5

v1ld
Apr 16, 2012


Like RMS is a crazy and apparently pervy coot, ugh, and I'm not trying to or wanting to defend him as a person. But he did move the needle for open source back when it wasn't a thing, so...

My first interaction with him was when I sent in a patch to the GNU tar list back in Feb/March 1996. I get an email from him asking for money to keep GNU going - a pattern that repeated a few times till the early 2000s when they had more funding.

But back in the mid 90s, the BSD toolchain wasn't as easy to get hold of as it is now (I don't even remember if the lawsuits had been settled) and the GNU toolchain was important to doing anything open source.

RMS didn't do most of that, but he did start on many of the core tools or push folks to fill in the blanks to get a free (as in money, not just code - compilers cost 100s and 1000s of real $$$$) compiler suite and supporting toolchain done. Not to say that wouldn't have happened anyway, of course.

But then he also hung onto maintainership of gcc well beyond when he should have. Handed it off to that ADA professor who was even slower and that led to the Cygnus fork etc. So good beginnings, bad endings even back then.

Likewise with Hurd which he kept pushing as the one true way well beyond Linux showing it wasn't.

I don't even know why I'm writing this, but it's kinda sad to see all the hosed up bullshit in the person when the stuff they began was so useful and had a huge impact on what I've done over the years (Emacs and the GNU toolchain I mean).

mdxi
Mar 13, 2006

to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING



Wedge Regret

I never had any interactions with RMS himself, but I did once post to the HURD mailing list. I tried discussing my surprise that after so much time and so much commotion about using the HURD instead of Linux, I found that the project had mostly spent time bouncing between several experimental microkernels, and that it was considered quite an achievement to succeed in getting Emacs running, to say nothing of a wider, fuller userland. I tried to say things as non-confrontationally as possible, and express my desire that I would be genuinely interested in experimenting with the system -- did anyone have any sort of estimate about when it might actually be possible to experiment, as a user and sysadmin?

I haven't though about that in forever -- this was back around 2002 or 2003. But now I realize that the responses I got were pure Star Citizen. I was basically told, without exaggeration, that I didn't understand OS development and that the project wasn't meant for end users but rather for people who wanted to test bleeding edge microkernel design and implementation. I decided to just walk away and not mention that their own website definitely proclaimed it as the future of gamingUnix-like systems, and that people should investuse it instead of trash like Linux.

The GNU people did (and do) good work. But being an ideologue with purity tests as barriers to entry isn't a great way to adapt to the times or make sure your organization continues to have an influx of fresh ideas.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Fun Shoe

You've gotta have some ideologues to keep pushing things.

Seamonster
Apr 30, 2007

IMMER SIEGREICH


RMS discussion is in YOSPOS, my dudes.

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Statutory Ape
Sep 12, 2017



Seamonster posted:

RMS discussion is in YOSPOS, my dudes.

yeah nah

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