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drat Dirty Ape posted:So I'm looking at building an AMD based system but I read that there may be new better AMD processors coming in just a few weeks and I am admittedly relatively clueless about the current state of processors. Is this something that would matter for a gaming desktop and would it be best to wait? Any idea if this is a thing that will actually be reasonably available and/or affordable? Finally, if I went ahead and got something like the Ryzen 3700 would I be able to upgrade easily in another year or so without changing motherboards? The PCIe 4.0 support will hopefully be more refined here, too. And if nothing else, it'll drop prices on existing Ryzen 3000 prices, so wait for the announcements - and you might even be able to buy some used CPUs and motherboards.
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Sep 19, 2020 13:34
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sean10mm posted:What is your PC for? At this point Blender/Substance/Photoshop as much as gaming. It’s been serving me pretty well with a 1080 but it’s slowly getting janky with random hangs during POST. A lot of the reason I wanna upgrade is switching to a smaller form factor and swapping out my current drives for NVME + SSD. In terms of gaming I’ve been pretty happy with it, but I’m not sure I’ve ever actually hit the 100Hz of my ultrawide in any modern AAA games. I recognise this is getting into the PC building thread territory sorry.
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Sep 19, 2020 13:37
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Anybody building a new Zen 3 system will want to get a mobo with BIOS flashback so they can upgrade the BIOS to one that supports the new CPU without needing a CPU the old BIOS can recognize installed. On like day one of Zen 3 sales the mobos in stock probably won't have the right BIOS. Lots of affordable B550 boards have it so it's usually no big deal, but some of the lower priced X570 ones don't. But the announcement for Zen 3 is like October 8th IIRC, so it makes sense to wait and either a) see if Zen 3 is super good, in which case get that, or b) it's just OK but Zen 2 prices drop like a rock, in which case get like a 3700X for $200.
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Sep 19, 2020 13:39
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drat Dirty Ape posted:So I'm looking at building an AMD based system but I read that there may be new better AMD processors coming in just a few weeks and I am admittedly relatively clueless about the current state of processors. Is this something that would matter for a gaming desktop and would it be best to wait? Any idea if this is a thing that will actually be reasonably available and/or affordable? Finally, if I went ahead and got something like the Ryzen 3700 would I be able to upgrade easily in another year or so without changing motherboards? Unless you need a new PC right now, it's probably best to wait. Prices on current gen may drop, you may get a free bump in performance for the same cost, etc.
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Sep 19, 2020 13:42
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drat Dirty Ape posted:So I'm looking at building an AMD based system but I read that there may be new better AMD processors coming in just a few weeks and I am admittedly relatively clueless about the current state of processors. Is this something that would matter for a gaming desktop and would it be best to wait? Any idea if this is a thing that will actually be reasonably available and/or affordable? Zen 3 announcement is Thursday, 8 October. Before then we have no hard information on next-gen AMD CPUs -- and not even much in the way of rumors. My normal advice is "build the system you need now, now" but three weeks away from an announcement, I would personally wait and see what's in the pipeline (and when). Make your decision then. quote:Finally, if I went ahead and got something like the Ryzen 3700 would I be able to upgrade easily in another year or so without changing motherboards? So long as you use a 5-series mobo, then yes. AMD has already announced that those boards will support Zen 3.
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Sep 19, 2020 17:02
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Yeah spending $300 on a CPU that you plan to swap out in a year for a single generation's worth of improvement seems less than ideal to me. We don't even know if it'll be a particularly large improvement.
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Sep 19, 2020 17:09
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Alright thanks. I'll most likely be waiting a few months to get a hold of a 3080 card anyway so I'm not in a big hurry.
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Sep 19, 2020 17:23
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mdxi posted:So long as you use a 5-series mobo, then yes. AMD has already announced that those boards will support Zen 3. I'm not even sure how much a 6-series motherboard could bring but I guess we'll find out in 2 weeks.
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Sep 19, 2020 17:31
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ijyt posted:I'm not even sure how much a 6-series motherboard could bring but I guess we'll find out in 2 weeks. If they do a 6 series it'll be a X670 that returns to asmedia and gets rid of the zen IO die that consumes 8-12 watts and needs (backup) active cooling. (It'll also be a signal for "uh-oh, maybe DDR5 isn't gonna be ready in 2021 and we're gonna get another zen respin on the current platforms first".)
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Sep 19, 2020 17:45
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X570 being essentially the same as the Matisse I/O die makes it a monster in the market segment for both features (IOMMU, SR-IOV) and number of PCIe lanes. It's pretty great for some lower end workstation applications that there's no practical difference between the CPU lanes and the chipset lanes if you plan your build with the chipset lane multiplexing in mind, even if it does use a bit more power overall, because it saves lots of money vs HEDT. That definitely doesn't matter for a "mostly gaming" build that I imagine is the mainstream use case though.
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Sep 19, 2020 18:31
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I built my new system around an X570 board and 3600X processor earlier this year to have an upgrade path available. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned before in the thread that I see the likelihood of a Zen 3 refresh as reasonably high, given what we've seen from AMD the last few years. As we get up to the point AMD announces they are moving from AM4 to AM5 then I figure I can try to time an upgrade to the optimal Zen 3/Zen 3+/Zen 3: Son of Zen 3 or whatever it is that's the best spin on AM4 processors available.
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Sep 20, 2020 00:02
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drat Dirty Ape posted:So I'm looking at building an AMD based system but I read that there may be new better AMD processors coming in just a few weeks and I am admittedly relatively clueless about the current state of processors. Is this something that would matter for a gaming desktop and would it be best to wait? Any idea if this is a thing that will actually be reasonably available and/or affordable? Finally, if I went ahead and got something like the Ryzen 3700 would I be able to upgrade easily in another year or so without changing motherboards? If you need a computer now, and have the budget for it, you should get one now. Yes, AMD is about to announce their next lineup of CPUs in early October, but we can't really know how much of it is going to "matter" until the reviews come out. Your best bet is to get an A520, B550 or X570 board so that you have a clear upgrade path from the Zen 2 processors available right now (like the Ryzen 3700), to the new ones that are coming out. If you don't need to get a computer yet, if you have something to use and you're still happy with it, then you can pass and wait for Zen 3 to come out.
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Sep 20, 2020 02:15
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What are the chances that the zen 3 desktop chips come with some sort of integrated graphics? I ask because I think I might take the evga step-up route to get a 3080 for my new build, but Id rather like to atleast surf the web while im down a graphics card for the cross shipping process.
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Sep 20, 2020 17:39
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SpaceCadetBob posted:What are the chances that the zen 3 desktop chips come with some sort of integrated graphics? Strong doubts they'll do anything differently than the current lineup. You're probably better off finding a used 710 or somesuch.
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Sep 20, 2020 17:52
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AMD is up to 20% of the notebook market. Pretty good considering how slow that market changes over.
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Sep 20, 2020 19:25
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That's pretty impressive since they went from "adequate" to "good/great" notebook processors between 2019 and 2020. I know there have been rumors of development boards, but there aren't any Ryzen powered Chromebooks yet, are there?
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Sep 20, 2020 19:53
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This will mean AMD notebooks will start to get premium designs. The xps13 needs a 4xxx options ASAP.
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Sep 20, 2020 19:55
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SpaceCadetBob posted:What are the chances that the zen 3 desktop chips come with some sort of integrated graphics? There's rumors that the Zen 3-based APUs are going to release at the same as, or immediately following, the CPUs, rather than many months later as has been the previous pattern, but obviously that won't happen until they're actually released.
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Sep 21, 2020 00:35
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gradenko_2000 posted:There's rumors that the Zen 3-based APUs are going to release at the same as, or immediately following, the CPUs, rather than many months later as has been the previous pattern, but obviously that won't happen until they're actually released. given AMD has announced a keynote at CES I wouldn't be surprised if that's when the APUs get announced. Bear in mind the desktop CPUs probably won't launch until the end of october so that's actually still a pretty quick follow-up by AMD's normal cadence.
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Sep 21, 2020 01:38
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How much of a performance or price penalty to you get for going with an APU instead of a CPU? Right now I'm aiming at a Ryzen 7 3700x if that helps set a benchmark. If im taking a long term hit to power I'd rather just find a used GPU as a backup to have lying around.
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Sep 21, 2020 02:25
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SpaceCadetBob posted:How much of a performance or price penalty to you get for going with an APU instead of a CPU? Right now I'm aiming at a Ryzen 7 3700x if that helps set a benchmark. If im taking a long term hit to power I'd rather just find a used GPU as a backup to have lying around. I don't know about AMD's Ryzen APUs in particular, but Intel's integrated graphics performance impact was mostly the power/thermal budget it ate, and by default was disabled when a discrete GPU was detected so the impact became zero. I would expect the APU to behave similarly. e: rereading your post I guess that's basically what you already knew, nobody really has benchmarks for APUs that I know of since none are available for desktops at the moment. 
isndl fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Sep 21, 2020 |
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Sep 21, 2020 02:33
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SpaceCadetBob posted:How much of a performance or price penalty to you get for going with an APU instead of a CPU? Right now I'm aiming at a Ryzen 7 3700x if that helps set a benchmark. If im taking a long term hit to power I'd rather just find a used GPU as a backup to have lying around. 3700X is about 14% faster than a 4750G at 1080p with a 2080 Ti, and the numbers work out the same for 3600X vs 4650G. (results are geomean of the gaming tests at Quasarzone) Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Sep 21, 2020 |
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Sep 21, 2020 02:40
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the biggest things holding back APUs right now is that: * the Zen 1/Zen+ APUs are relatively much slower, and they also capped-out at 4-core-8-thread models (i.e. the Ryzen 5 3400G) * you can't buy desktop-Renoir by itself without going through the grey market * APUs have smaller cache in exchange for the iGPU: the Ryzen 7 4750G has 8 MB of L3 cache, compared to the Ryzen 7 3700X's 32 MB of L3 cache, despite having the same clocks and core/thread count so what we can expect with a (near-)simultaneous release of the CPU/APU lineups is that you can get an Zen 3 APU with the same clocks and thread-count as a Zen 3 CPU, with a price premium for the iGPU, and then a smaller cache
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Sep 21, 2020 02:44
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ratbert90 posted:This will mean AMD notebooks will start to get premium designs. The xps13 needs a 4xxx options ASAP. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA-no. AMD can't even supply enough silicon to everyone they're selling to *now*, what sense does it make for Dell to make an XPS 13-2021 SKU with an AMD chip and then have it be out of stock for nine of the next twelve months because they can't get enough chips in?
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Sep 21, 2020 03:43
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Dell did put the 4800H into a 15 inch, but it had less overall expandability than the equivalent Asus ROG
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Sep 21, 2020 04:17
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A refreshed XPS 13 2:1 and normal will end up with Tiger Lake.
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Sep 21, 2020 05:35
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bull3964 posted:A refreshed XPS 13 2:1 and normal will end up with Tiger Lake. Yeah, the XPS 13 isn't targeted at people who want to play games or do heavy crunching. It's targeted at people who want a durable, ultraportable machine capable of office/sysadmin type work, with 12 hours of real-world, network-attached battery life. It's a Macbook Air, but from Dell, complete with the very slim chassis and all the trade-offs that come with that. AMD needs a capable part that tops out at 7W for that market. Which I'm sure they could do, but so far they haven't.
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Sep 21, 2020 16:33
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gradenko_2000 posted:the biggest things holding back APUs right now is that: One other point: the APUs are monolithic. A chiplet-based APU would be pretty interesting since they could release models with different sized GPUs. Smaller, lower power for laptops versus larger and more capable for desktops. Otoh the benefits of a single die may be too much to pass up for anything bound for mobile form factors.
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Sep 21, 2020 21:47
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ConanTheLibrarian posted:One other point: the APUs are monolithic. A chiplet-based APU would be pretty interesting since they could release models with different sized GPUs. Smaller, lower power for laptops versus larger and more capable for desktops. Otoh the benefits of a single die may be too much to pass up for anything bound for mobile form factors. There was a leak a month or two ago claiming a Vega 20 APU exists, though in retrospect I think that was probably the XBox Series S chip (if the leak was legit at all). But I wonder if AMD doesn't have something like that in the works, especially since it looks like the integrated Xe will be as good or a little better than a Vega 8.
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Sep 21, 2020 23:18
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mdxi posted:Yeah, the XPS 13 isn't targeted at people who want to play games or do heavy crunching. It's targeted at people who want a durable, ultraportable machine capable of office/sysadmin type work, with 12 hours of real-world, network-attached battery life. It's a Macbook Air, but from Dell, complete with the very slim chassis and all the trade-offs that come with that. I think they can do this but those parts won't have the thread counts we would pay money for or extremely cut down igpus.
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Sep 21, 2020 23:21
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ConanTheLibrarian posted:One other point: the APUs are monolithic. A chiplet-based APU would be pretty interesting since they could release models with different sized GPUs. Smaller, lower power for laptops versus larger and more capable for desktops. Otoh the benefits of a single die may be too much to pass up for anything bound for mobile form factors. As of right now, idle lower consumption would be a real problem for the chiplet based designs in mobile space. Maybe you can make that better going to a better process for the io die but then you sacrifice some of the cost benefit of doing it in the first place.
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Sep 22, 2020 04:10
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FuturePastNow posted:There was a leak a month or two ago claiming a Vega 20 APU exists, though in retrospect I think that was probably the XBox Series S chip (if the leak was legit at all). But I wonder if AMD doesn't have something like that in the works, especially since it looks like the integrated Xe will be as good or a little better than a Vega 8. Vega 20 is the Radeon VII / Radeon Instinct MI50
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Sep 22, 2020 05:51
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AMD names too much poo poo "Vega", it's goddamn confusing. They had a Vega 20 laptop GPU a while back too.
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Sep 22, 2020 06:36
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The Titan Vega is the ultimate GPU.
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Sep 22, 2020 06:46
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On October 28th Raja runs to the stage, body slams Lisa Su and announces the Radeon VIII with 32gb of HBM2 The crowd gasps and erupts in incoherent hooting and hollering and chants of "Vega! Vega!"
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Sep 22, 2020 08:15
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Raja mountain bikes to the stage. Remember, AMD is in the mountain bike business now too.
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Sep 22, 2020 08:17
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lDDQD posted:Vega 20 is the Radeon VII / Radeon Instinct MI50 Vega 20 as a brand name, not code name, akin to the Vega 6/7/8 APU GPUs. E: Yeah it's likely the leak was someone discovering the Macbook Pro GPU existed just prior to its release. Still, I wonder if AMD has considered making a gigantic APU similar to the console processors for computer release. FuturePastNow fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 15:27
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https://twitter.com/TechXplore_com/status/1308805813948108807?s=20
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Sep 23, 2020 17:31
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priznat posted:AMD names too much poo poo "Vega", it's goddamn confusing. They had a Vega 20 laptop GPU a while back too. Someone at AMD looked at the Street Fighter US/Japan names and decided that their graphics products needed the same level of confusion.
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Sep 23, 2020 17:33
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Ah poo poo I accidentally bought the non-Japanese Vega am I screwed
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Sep 23, 2020 17:38
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