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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



Generic Monk posted:

does x570 support 2 m.2 drives without any fuckery like PCI slots or SATA ports getting disabled? asking for my lil asrock board that could

Yes, that'd be the reason to get a x570 board.

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Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.




Nullsmack posted:

Are there new motherboards coming out that support the new Ryzen chips? I'm not sure what to search for and keep running into existing boards that are getting a BIOS update for it. I know that's great for people looking to upgrade, but what happens if someone is building a new system? Can you flash it without an old chip? Or would those come already flashed?

Boards manufactured after the compatible BIOS was released will have it. If you go into a retail store it'll presumably have a "Ryzen 5000 ready" sticker on it, if you're ordering online you just have to hope (and I wouldn't be on it). Some boards can have their BIOS flashed without a CPU, many can't. I know MSI likes to include the feature but be sure to confirm that your board does have it before buying if necessary.

Arzachel
May 12, 2012


Nullsmack posted:

Are there new motherboards coming out that support the new Ryzen chips? I'm not sure what to search for and keep running into existing boards that are getting a BIOS update for it. I know that's great for people looking to upgrade, but what happens if someone is building a new system? Can you flash it without an old chip? Or would those come already flashed?

Most B550 and some X570 boards let you flash the bios without a CPU, yeah, and boards bought after the launch have a good chance of being pre-flashed. Some manufacturers are also releasing revisions of older boards with the newer bios.

Khorne
May 1, 2002

Goonstone Champ x2

Generic Monk posted:

does x570 support 2 m.2 drives without any fuckery like PCI slots or SATA ports getting disabled? asking for my lil asrock board that could
Check the tech specs of your specific board to verify. There will be a * near the slot and then some explanation somewhere on that page for that *. Generally, only the third m2 slot participates in fuckery on x570 boards that have it.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Oct 15, 2020

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Nullsmack posted:

Are there new motherboards coming out that support the new Ryzen chips? I'm not sure what to search for and keep running into existing boards that are getting a BIOS update for it. I know that's great for people looking to upgrade, but what happens if someone is building a new system? Can you flash it without an old chip? Or would those come already flashed?

The general consensus right now is no, there aren't many new boards coming out. Some B550's are getting minor refreshes that'll include Zen 3 support out of the box, but no major changes it seems.

By the time you can actually buy Zen 3, a lot of the boards on the shelves should already have the new BIOS to support it. If not, many B550/Z570 boards can accept a BIOS flash without a CPU present ("Flashback" is a common term for this ability).

It is possible for you to buy a board that both doesn't support CPU-less flashing and has sat on a shelf somewhere long enough to not have the new BIOS, but it seems reasonably unlikely. If you end up in that situation you can either try to borrow a chip from a friend, return the mobo for one with a later production run (and hopefully the newer BIOS), or ask AMD to loan you a CPU (I know it specifically is talking about 400-seried motherboards, but it's the same issue so I'd assume they'll offer the same thing for the 500-series).

Generic Monk posted:

does x570 support 2 m.2 drives without any fuckery like PCI slots or SATA ports getting disabled? asking for my lil asrock board that could

It's possible to go either way. One NVMe slot runs off the CPU itself, while the other one (or two) run off the PCH. Depending on how many other PCIe slots a given board has decided to hang off the PCH, it might disable one, though. Up to the motherboard manufacturer. It should be noted in the motherboard manual what the exact options are.

Kaddish
Feb 7, 2002



After doing the research, I'm totally fine only having the GPU and primary m.2 slot being pcie 4.0 as on b550. I'm curious about the price point on this new Asus Strix board coming out.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Kaddish posted:

After doing the research, I'm totally fine only having the GPU and primary m.2 slot being pcie 4.0 as on b550. I'm curious about the price point on this new Asus Strix board coming out.

The price has kinda been the rub with B550, honestly, especially from ASUS. For example, the TUF B550-Plus is $159 on PC Part Picker, and the (extremely similar but slightly better all around) TUF X570-Plus is... $161.

Really that TUF X570-Plus is such a good board for the dollar that its probably worth paying the extra for regardless of your price point. Provided your case doesnt have a window, that is.

Generic Monk
Oct 31, 2011



hobbesmaster posted:

Yes, that'd be the reason to get a x570 board.

awesome. i mainly bought this over b450 because it had intel LAN and no onboard audio grounding issues so nice to know this is poss

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

https://www.technopat.net/2020/10/1...egiyle-gelecek/

Apparently 4000 mhz is the new ram sweet spot for Zen 3?

Taima
Dec 31, 2006




If you have an SLI board like the Aorus Master x570, can you put your card in the SECOND PCI E slot, while only having one card in it? Just curious because that would free up some airflow space in between the CPU and card.

Whether that makes any difference is another question, just curious if it's possible/the same.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Taima posted:

If you have an SLI board like the Aorus Master x570, can you put your card in the SECOND PCI E slot, while only having one card in it? Just curious because that would free up some airflow space in between the CPU and card.

It will certainly work, yes. The question is at what speed: depending on the motherboard, it might be that both PCIe 1 and 2 are both hung off the CPU and either would get 16x as long as only one card is in there, and would split to 8x/8x if you had two. Other motherboards only wire up PCIe 1 to the CPU, and PCIe 2 is actually wired up through the PCH, which would cut effective bandwidth all the way down to 4x (which is dumb but I'm sure it's being done somewhere).

I think most boards with two PCIe 16x slots use the first option (both hung off the CPU so it doesn't matter which slot you use), but you should be able to find out by reading your motherboard manual: if it makes mention of degrading to 8x/8x if you have both slots occupied, then you're good to go.

e; the Aorus Master X570 specifically notes that PCIe 1 is PCIe 4.0 at 16x, while PCIe 2 is PCIe 4.0 at 8x. In actual use that's a 0-1% difference in performance, so feel free to do whatever.

DrDork fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Oct 15, 2020

8-bit Miniboss
May 24, 2005

CORPO COPS CAME FOR MY


Arzachel posted:

Most B550 and some X570 boards let you flash the bios without a CPU, yeah, and boards bought after the launch have a good chance of being pre-flashed. Some manufacturers are also releasing revisions of older boards with the newer bios.

This honestly should be a baseline feature because when I got my Tomahawk last weekend and was updating the BIOS, I made the mistake of turning off my machine not realizing that the manual doesn't say it would do so on it's own and there was an LED hidden within the VRM heatsink that blinks when it's flashing though I thought the manual meant the flash drive's LED. So after I assembled everything it didn't power on with the debug LED claiming the CPU was at fault. I knew my processor was still good as I pulled it from my x370 board. It was then I realized I most likely had a bad flash and the board was essentially bricked but thanks to the low level control the flash button has, I was able to reflash it and it was working again.

Seriously, it should be baseline. It'd help prevent so many RMAs.

Kaddish
Feb 7, 2002



8-bit Miniboss posted:

This honestly should be a baseline feature because when I got my Tomahawk last weekend and was updating the BIOS, I made the mistake of turning off my machine not realizing that the manual doesn't say it would do so on it's own and there was an LED hidden within the VRM heatsink that blinks when it's flashing though I thought the manual meant the flash drive's LED. So after I assembled everything it didn't power on with the debug LED claiming the CPU was at fault. I knew my processor was still good as I pulled it from my x370 board. It was then I realized I most likely had a bad flash and the board was essentially bricked but thanks to the low level control the flash button has, I was able to reflash it and it was working again.

Seriously, it should be baseline. It'd help prevent so many RMAs.

This is why, among some engineering decisions to be sure, Intel is just like no, gently caress you.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


I got a new thing at work. I honestly don't even know what the cpu model is I'm too lazy to check rn.

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Just the tip!


Exciting Lemon

Looks like a 3970X

Taima
Dec 31, 2006




DrDork posted:

It will certainly work, yes. The question is at what speed: depending on the motherboard, it might be that both PCIe 1 and 2 are both hung off the CPU and either would get 16x as long as only one card is in there, and would split to 8x/8x if you had two. Other motherboards only wire up PCIe 1 to the CPU, and PCIe 2 is actually wired up through the PCH, which would cut effective bandwidth all the way down to 4x (which is dumb but I'm sure it's being done somewhere).

I think most boards with two PCIe 16x slots use the first option (both hung off the CPU so it doesn't matter which slot you use), but you should be able to find out by reading your motherboard manual: if it makes mention of degrading to 8x/8x if you have both slots occupied, then you're good to go.

e; the Aorus Master X570 specifically notes that PCIe 1 is PCIe 4.0 at 16x, while PCIe 2 is PCIe 4.0 at 8x. In actual use that's a 0-1% difference in performance, so feel free to do whatever.

Sweet thanks!

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


Less Fat Luke posted:

Looks like a 3970X

3970X is only 32 cores.

Turns out its a 3995WX. I thought it was Epyc but I guess Epyc would never be used in a workstation? This is a 1P workstation.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Shaocaholica posted:

3970X is only 32 cores.

Turns out its a 3995WX. I thought it was Epyc but I guess Epyc would never be used in a workstation? This is a 1P workstation.

Thats an exceedingly rare part, basically a 3990X with 8 channel memory support (and very slightly lower clocks). Or an Epyc with TR clocks, depending on how you want to look at it. It is likely the fastest single CPU on earth, more or less.

There are some 1P Epyc workstation boards but they aren't super popular.

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Just the tip!


Exciting Lemon

Shaocaholica posted:

3970X is only 32 cores.

Turns out its a 3995WX. I thought it was Epyc but I guess Epyc would never be used in a workstation? This is a 1P workstation.

Oh okay. 3970X has SMT though so it would show up as 64 logical processors as well.

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

Get the fuck in your cage and shut the fuck up, you stupid fucking Mexicans. Your voice doesn't fucking matter unless you support OUR rapist.

OBAMA DID NOTHING WRONG


https://twitter.com/VideoCardz/stat...1091073026?s=20

Generic Monk
Oct 31, 2011




hackintosh?

mdxi
Mar 13, 2006

to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING



A couple of Q&As from an interview with Anandtech's Ian Cutress and AMD's Mark Papermaster that touch directly on some recent topics from this thread:

quote:

IC: Zen 3 is now the third major microarchitectural iteration of the Zen family, and we have seen roadmaps that talk about Zen 4, and potentially even Zen 5. Jim Keller has famously said that iterating on a design is key to getting that low hanging fruit, but at some point you have to start from scratch on the base design. Given the timeline from Bulldozer to Zen, and now we are 3-4 years into Zen and the third generation. Can you discuss how AMD approaches these next iterations of Zen while also thinking about that the next big ground-up redesign?

MP: Zen 3 is in fact that redesign. It is part of the Zen family, so we didnít change, Iíll call it, the implementation approach at 100000 feet. If you were flying over the landscape you can say weíre still in the same territory, but as you drop down as you look at the implementation and literally across all of our execution units, Zen 3 is not a derivative design. Zen 3 is redesigned to deliver maximum performance gain while staying in the same semiconductor node as its predecessor.

IC: While the x86 market for both client and enterprise is very competitive, there is increasing pressure from the Arm ecosystem in both markets, itís hard to deny. At present, Armís own Neoverse V1 designs are promising a near-x86 level of IPC, and subsequent 30% year-on-year architectural uplift, at a fraction of the power that x86 runs at. While AMDís goals so far have been achieving peak performance, like in Zen 3, but how does AMD intend to combat non x86 competition, especially as they are starting to promise in their roadmaps more and more performance?

MP: We wonít let our foot of the gas pedal in terms of performance. Itís not about ISA (instruction set architecture) - in any ISA once you set your sight on high performance youíre going to be adding transistors to be able to achieve that performance. There are some differences between one ISA and another, but thatís not fundamental - we chose x86 for our designs because of the vast software install base, the vast toolchain out there, and so it is x86 that we chose to optimize for performance. That gives us the fastest path to adoption in the industry. We have historically have lived in nothing but a competitive environment - we donít expect that to change going forward. Our view is very simply that the best defense is in fact a strong offence - weíre not letting up!

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Hackintosh. Acidanthera in the motherboard name, thats the group that does the OpenCore boot loader. The bigger Q for me is how do they already have a 5950X engineering sample?

Kaddish
Feb 7, 2002



Has the x570 Tomahawk been sold at MSRP anywhere since release?

8-bit Miniboss
May 24, 2005

CORPO COPS CAME FOR MY


Kaddish posted:

Has the x570 Tomahawk been sold at MSRP anywhere since release?

Amazon had backorders about 2 weeks ago or so. Thatís where I ordered mine and I got it last Saturday.

8-bit Miniboss fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Oct 16, 2020

Kaddish
Feb 7, 2002



8-bit Miniboss posted:

Amazon had backorders about 2 weeks ago or so. Thatís where I ordered mine and I got it last Saturday.

Alright, thanks. I'll keep watching all the usual suspects. It's either out of stock or marked up everywhere.

8-bit Miniboss
May 24, 2005

CORPO COPS CAME FOR MY


Kaddish posted:

Alright, thanks. I'll keep watching all the usual suspects. It's either out of stock or marked up everywhere.

Yep, I used Distill.io browser extension (thanks RTX 3080 hunting) to monitor Amazon and Newegg pages for the board and I'd just react to any page change alerts and Amazon just happened to pop and ordered it then and there.

Taima
Dec 31, 2006




https://www.adorama.com/msix570toma...chredirect=true

Itís supposedly about to be in stock. Itís been fairly easy to find at msrp for a while but you do have to check as the shipments come in waves.

8-bit Miniboss
May 24, 2005

CORPO COPS CAME FOR MY


Taima posted:

https://www.adorama.com/msix570toma...chredirect=true

Itís supposedly about to be in stock. Itís been fairly easy to find at msrp for a while but you do have to check as the shipments come in waves.

As a warning, it said exactly that 2 weeks ago when I looked at the time. So it might be not the best option either. Just an FYI.

SourKraut
Nov 20, 2005

POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION




8-bit Miniboss posted:

Amazon had backorders about 2 weeks ago or so. Thatís where I ordered mine and I got it last Saturday.



I'm envious - I ordered it on October 3rd, and it still hasn't delivered. It was originally supposed to deliver yesterday, and then they bumped it to October 26th.

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

Assuming I want to upgrade my Intel PC to the new Ryzen 5 stuff when it comes out, what are the best motherboard options for me if I'm mITX?

Is it true that AMD stuff can use ECC server ram? My case airflow and layout benefits greatly from Very Low Profile ram, which for DDR4 is only available as ECC.

Lastly what's with those CPU cooler brackets and the huge backplate? If I want a cooler that is low-profile and wide as possible, preferably all-copper and with a vapor chamber, is there something along those lines?

Damn Dirty Ape
Jan 23, 2015


Kaddish posted:

Has the x570 Tomahawk been sold at MSRP anywhere since release?

It pops up now and then on Amazon and Newegg but often sells out in minutes. I just backordered one two days ago.

Taima
Dec 31, 2006




So what's the most effective thermal paste solution for cooling something like a 5950x via an air cooler (a chromax black)?

I see all of this poo poo about liquid metal but it's hard to tell if it actually matters... or maybe there's something better that I'm missing? I am so lost.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



Taima posted:

So what's the most effective thermal paste solution for cooling something like a 5950x via an air cooler (a chromax black)?

I see all of this poo poo about liquid metal but it's hard to tell if it actually matters... or maybe there's something better that I'm missing? I am so lost.

Just look at the giant tom's hardware chart https://www.tomshardware.com/review...son,5108-9.html You probably want thermal grizzly kryonaut and don't want to bother with the metallic paste.

Taima
Dec 31, 2006




Oh man thanks that is a great resource.

Applying liquid metal seems kind of scary.

e: I'm looking up how to do it on youtube and people are taking the tops off their CPUs and putting it on the chip. Is that something I have to/should do? Well, I can see that you don't have to, but is it worth it.

Taima fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Oct 18, 2020

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Taima posted:

Oh man thanks that is a great resource.

Applying liquid metal seems kind of scary.

e: I'm looking up how to do it on youtube and people are taking the tops off their CPUs and putting it on the chip. Is that something I have to/should do?

Nope, delidding is thankfully (mostly) dead for both AMD and Intel.

Taima
Dec 31, 2006




Awesome thanks. Good to know. I'll probably just go with the kryonaut as suggested unless someone wants to make a case for metallic paste.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Paste choice doesn't really matter much for AMD CPUs right now honestly. At ambient, the limit to the clocks generally isn't temperature dissipation.

Obvi this might all change with Zen3, who knows, but probably safe to assume it wont radically change that. But if you gotta buy some stuff, Kryonaut is absolutely a good choice and is cheap to boot.

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN


I am thinking of upgrading from the stock cooler because a tower actually venting out the back will bring my overall case temps down. If I get something decent then it can go back in place if/when I upgrade the processor, too.

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Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

Nurk is good, actually

Grimey Drawer

Zero VGS posted:

Lastly what's with those CPU cooler brackets and the huge backplate? If I want a cooler that is low-profile and wide as possible, preferably all-copper and with a vapor chamber, is there something along those lines?

Noctua makes great low profile coolers. You may have to click through most of these to see which ones fit your height requirement, but they make great performing coolers: https://noctua.at/en/products/cpu-cooler-retail

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